Welsh Affairs

Debate between Stephen Crabb and Nigel Evans

Thursday 29th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The right hon. Member is giving a really interesting introduction. I am glad that he mentioned the work done by prison staff, because their work is so critical. He must agree that we have an anomaly in the justice system in Wales whereby so many of the critical support services for prisoners coming out of prison are run by the Welsh Government. That situation is not reflected anywhere else in the England and Wales legal system, and, sooner or later, that must come to a close, because it is insufficient.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Before Mr Crabb comes back in with a response, I will let people know that there will be an unofficial five-minute limit. I also very much take on board what Mr Crabb had to say about ensuring a decent amount of time to discuss Welsh affairs in future.

[Stephen Crabb]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I do not agree with the right hon. Lady. We have been taking evidence on exactly that issue and we have come across extremely professional people working in those public services and the prisons to ensure that the jagged edge of devolution, if you like, does not create disadvantages for Welsh prisoners. We will continue to look at that during our current inquiry.

Let me move on—briskly, if I can. I have been very encouraged by the engagement we have had with UK Ministers. I thank the Secretary of State and his predecessors for the 10 public evidence sessions they have had with us over the last four years. It is also worth noting that we have had the First Minister of Wales in front of us four times, and we have had 10 other sessions with other Welsh Government Ministers. I believe that that level of engagement with the Welsh Government is unprecedented, and I hope it will continue, whoever leads the Welsh Affairs Committee in the next Parliament.

The Committee has also been able to question the chief executives of some of the devolved bodies, including: Transport for Wales over deterioration in rail performance in Wales; the chief executive of Natural Resources Wales about water quality; and, as we did yesterday, the chief executive of the Development Bank of Wales, which is of course responsible to the Welsh Government.

I have also tried to change how the Committee works as a team. One thing I have done is exploit the Standing Orders that allow guesting. I am pleased that we have had Welsh Members of Parliament who are not members of the Committee plugging in and taking part in individual inquiries where they have a specific interest. Notably, the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) has done so for the broadcasting inquiry and my hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Sarah Atherton) has done so when we have been looking at the defence industry in Wales. I have also sought to involve some of the Chairs of the Senedd Committees. I was pleased that Delyth Jewell joined us for the broadcasting inquiry, and Llyr Gruffydd joined us when we were questioning the chief executive of Transport for Wales.

We will have a challenge in the next Parliament, as we will have significantly fewer Members of Parliament from Wales, which—I say this with great sadness—will inevitably mean a weaker Welsh voice in this institution. Both in absolute and relative terms, Welsh representation will be smaller in the next Parliament. In terms of ensuring that the Welsh Affairs Committee can continue to build on the good work we have done—I have a great interest in this—I think we will have to change how the Committee works. The Welsh Grand Committee is effectively moribund, and nobody is mourning its slow death, but the Welsh Affairs Committee has proved its worth.

I would like to us to move to a situation where all Welsh Back Benchers have the opportunity to participate in different inquiries, depending on their interests and availability. I have written to the Leader of the House and the Chair of the Liaison Committee about that issue. A lot more work is to be done to get progress on that. I would like Members who hope to be back in the next Parliament to bear that in mind as we think about how to ensure that Welsh representatives make their presence count here at Westminster.

My final note is about Senedd reform, because that is the other side of the democratic coin in Wales. The Welsh Government plan to expand the Senedd quite significantly, with 36 additional Members, and different figures have been put on the cost. My big concern is about how they intend to elect those Members. I have questioned the First Minister about the fact that there will be multiple Members for the same constituency. The First Minister did not think it presented such a problem, and suggested that one of the strengths of the new system will be that someone who might want to take an issue to a Conservative Member of the Senedd could do that, or they could take it to Plaid Cymru Member, because that might reflect their political preference. That is a fundamental shift from how we go about our business as Members of Parliament in our constituencies. I do not care whether someone voted, how they voted, or whether they put up a sign for me or did everything they could to get me out of office. I will represent that person to the very best of my ability.

I fear that with a “plurality of representation”—to use the First Minister’s words—in these new supersized constituencies, we will end up with a fuzzier, more diluted sense of democracy in Wales at a time when both in Westminster and in Cardiff we need Welsh politicians to be much more effective and show value to all our constituents and get the change that we want in Wales, as it desperately needs. I will bring my remarks to a close here, and I look forward to hearing what other Members have to say.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

I thank all Members who participated this afternoon in what has been a very good debate. I am particularly grateful to fellow members of the Select Committee who joined me in the application to the Backbench Business Committee. We thank that Committee for granting the debate. We look forward to future St David’s Day debates that are perhaps longer and more expansive.

I was particularly encouraged to hear the speech from the hon. Member for Llanelli (Dame Nia Griffith), which highlighted the opportunity for Wales of floating offshore wind. For a nation like Wales, which does not see many new industrial opportunities come along, that is the opportunity the UK Government and the Welsh Government together should be seizing. We look forward to some good news, hopefully, from the Secretary of State and his colleagues on port funding in Milford Haven and Port Talbot to help capture all the economic benefits that that new industry could bring to our communities. Thank you again, Mr Deputy Speaker, for chairing this St David’s Day debate. Dydd gŵyl Dewi hapus.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Welsh affairs.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Let me just say, before everyone leaves, that I have heard very clearly what has been said about the time constraints that all Members had to endure during the debate. I have chaired a few Backbench Business debates in the past that have finished early, but if this debate had been allowed more time, it would clearly have gone the distance, and people would have had the opportunity to say far more things. I will raise that with Mr Speaker tomorrow.

Let me also say that I was at St Margaret’s Church yesterday for the memorial service for John Morris, Lord Morris of Aberavon. Not only was it a wonderful service, but hearing the London Welsh Male Voice Choir boom out “Calon Lân” made me feel incredibly proud to be Welsh. It has been an honour and a privilege to chair the debate, and I end by saying: dydd gŵyl Dewi hapus i bawb.

Welsh Affairs

Debate between Stephen Crabb and Nigel Evans

Thursday 2nd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

I agree. We need to achieve alignment between the Crown Estate’s leasing auctions, the Treasury’s contracts for difference process and the commitments that developers make. The hon. Gentleman is exactly right that we need to hold their feet to the fire—whether the developers’ or the Crown Estate’s. When companies make promises to create x number of jobs and apprenticeships in his constituency or mine, we want them to be realised. That is the opportunity in front of us.

I have probably exhausted my time. I hope that you feel as upbeat and optimistic as me, Mr Deputy Speaker. We spend a lot of time in this Chamber debating the problems and challenges facing Wales. Sometimes, as a nation we are prone to a little too much negativity. I hope on this St David’s day we can be positive and upbeat, and certainly follow the spirit in which the debate was opened by the hon. Member for Swansea East.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

The right hon. Gentleman reminded me and all of us who grew up in Wales of the school eisteddfod, which I thoroughly enjoyed when I went to Dynevor School. We mostly got the afternoon off, so it was great.

Points of Order

Debate between Stephen Crabb and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 1st February 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for notice of it. Again, he makes an incredibly important point. We expect, when we contact Government agencies, that they will respond in a very timely manner. That clearly has not happened in this case, and I ask the Whip on the Treasury Bench to ensure that the Department gets to hear of it.

[Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I thank the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Kim Johnson) for making that statement in her point of order, but my understanding is that the use of language such as “apartheid” and “fascist” is not just insensitive but a breach of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of antisemitism.

Mr Deputy Speaker, what advice will you and the Speaker’s Office be providing to the leaders of all the parties in this House about the language we use here and the importance of tackling deep-rooted antisemitism in our political culture, which at this point in time is so evident on the left of politics? It is less than a week ago that you sat in the Chair when we were here for the annual debate on Holocaust Memorial Day. You ended that debate with very powerful words. It is incumbent upon us to tackle this deep-seated problem, is it not?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point order. Mr Speaker has made it absolutely clear on several occasions that temperate language should be used throughout proceedings in this Chamber, and there are very good reasons for that. Thank you once again.

Bill Presented

Lifelong Learning (Higher Education Fee Limits) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Secretary Gillian Keegan, supported by the Prime Minister, Secretary Steve Barclay, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary Suella Braverman, Secretary Grant Shapps, Secretary Michael Gove and Robert Halfon, presented a Bill to make provision about the determination of the fee limit for higher education courses provided by registered English higher education providers subject to a fee limit condition; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 240) with explanatory notes (Bill 240-EN).

Support for the Welsh Economy and Funding for the Devolved Institutions

Debate between Stephen Crabb and Nigel Evans

Tuesday 5th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

With the leave of the House. It is apt to see you in the Chair, Mr Deputy Speaker, given your Welsh heritage.

Again, I am grateful to the Backbench Business Committee—the Chair, the hon. Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), is in his place—for selecting this topic for debate this afternoon. I thank all the participants, who have made it a thoughtful, intelligent and engaging debate. We have covered a lot of ground and we have covered many different subjects well. We have disagreed well and we have exchanged some important ideas about the future of Wales. I hope that people watching the debate will have seen that one thing that unites Members on both sides of the House is that we are Members of Parliament for Welsh constituencies who share a love of Wales and a deep love and connection with our communities. We all want the best for our communities in Wales.

Finally, in the next Parliament, the number of MPs from Wales will be significantly reduced, so it will become even more important to have more opportunities on the Floor of the House to debate issues for Wales. Many other parts of the country are fighting hard for resources and we must do our bit in Wales to fight harder in future.

Very finally, I thank again the Clerks of the Welsh Affairs Committee and their team of staff who do a simply superb job to support the work of the Committee.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I love “finally” and “very finally”.

Question deferred until tomorrow at Seven o’clock (Standing Order No. 54).

Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy

Holocaust Memorial Day 2021

Debate between Stephen Crabb and Nigel Evans

Thursday 28th January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

In concluding this marvellous, inspiring debate, I thank all 76 Members of this House, drawn from all parties and from all corners of our United Kingdom, who contributed with moving powerful, intelligent and well-informed speeches. I believe that the best of the House is represented by the debates we have on Holocaust Memorial Day, which has become such an important feature of our national life and our parliamentary calendar. The strong commitment shown by all parts of the House this afternoon underlines and reinforces again the deep commitment that there is in this House to ensure that the holocaust has a permanent place in our nation’s collective memory. I am particularly grateful for the contributions from the three Front-Bench speakers at the end of this debate, all of whom spoke extremely well. I was particularly grateful for the contribution of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, who spoke also very powerfully last night in the national commemorative ceremony and has a deep personal connection to the issue.

It was good to hear the shadow Secretary of State reaffirm his own personal commitment and his party’s commitment to honouring the memory of those who fell during the holocaust by challenging wrong sentiments and challenging prejudices that may still linger in the political party and in this place.

To conclude, I thank everyone who has participated. It is has been a very good debate.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I visited Auschwitz-Birkenau for the first time last year, and I will never forget what I saw there and nor should I. In 2021, we must all remain on our guard and shine that light until the end of time.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered Holocaust Memorial Day 2021.

Vaccinations: Developing Countries

Debate between Stephen Crabb and Nigel Evans

Wednesday 13th June 2018 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Crabb]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Minister for that response.

Finally, Mr Evans, I thank you. As ever, you have chaired this afternoon wonderfully. Diolch yn fawr.

[Mr Nigel Evans (in the Chair)]

As someone who has witnessed the vaccination, via the Department for International Development, of many babies under a tree in Uganda with the International Development Committee, may I say what a privilege it has been to chair this debate?

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the economic effect of vaccinations in developing countries.