John Bercow
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European Union (Withdrawal) Act
John Bercow Excerpts(5 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Mr Speaker
Order. The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) is a cheeky chappie, chortling and chuckling away from a sedentary position, but it has been made perfectly clear that the Prime Minister is not giving way.
The Prime Minister
Thank you, Mr Speaker, but I will take the hon. Gentleman’s intervention.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. The right hon. Gentleman is not currently giving way. [Interruption.] I do not require any affirmation or contradiction from the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare). He has got to learn the ways of Parliament.
Jeremy Corbyn
Secondly, the motion uses the word “deliberately”. The risk of our being held in the backstop indefinitely has not been reduced; all that has been reduced is the risk that we could be deliberately held in the backstop indefinitely.
The Prime Minister has herself said on numerous occasions that the backstop is painful for both the UK and the European Union, and is something that neither side wishes to see applied. There has been no indication from the Prime Minister that there was ever a risk of our being deliberately held in the backstop in the first place.
Ian Blackford
My hon. Friend is correct about that. I have some difficulty in reconciling myself with what we are doing. I had the opportunity to work in the continent of Europe, as did my son, and we are taking that automatic right away from my grandchildren. If the Prime Minister gets her way, in just over a couple of weeks that right that we all have to live, work and get an education in 28 EU states will be reduced to applying in only one. Why are we doing that? Simply because of the Eurosceptics in the Tory party, who have driven us to that position. What a disgrace that the opportunities that many people have benefited from are being taken away.
People may not see it on a camera, but while I am saying this the Prime Minister is sitting there laughing. She is laughing while those opportunities are being stolen—that is what is happening—from our future generations. It is an absolute disgrace that the Prime Minister would behave in the way she is. I will give her the opportunity to stand up and perhaps argue why it is right that our young people should be denied those opportunities and that we should act in a way that is taking away—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I invite the right hon. Gentleman to resume his seat. The Prime Minister is perfectly capable of defending herself, but I must say that there has not been anything remotely unseemly or untoward, still less unparliamentary, about the Prime Minister’s behaviour, today or indeed on any other day. She is sitting, listening, with a smile on her face, which seems a perfectly reasonable thing to do. The right hon. Gentleman is an old hand and he is whipping it up. I do not knock him, but I say to others: calm. No excessive gesticulation. A man as cerebral as you, Mr Kwarteng, does not need to point in an aggressive manner. You are a cerebral denizen of the House, remember that.
Ian Blackford
Thank you, Mr Speaker. These are serious matters and they deserve to be taken seriously. I am not arguing for one moment that the Prime Minister is behaving in a way that is unparliamentary—I would not seek to do so—but I do say that it is undignified to see the Prime Minister laughing when I am talking about the rights that will be taken away from our young people. That, Mr Speaker, is unforgivable.
Mr Speaker
Order. Mr Kerr, I thought you would have satisfied yourself with your contribution, of considerable eloquence and passion, made on your feet. You mustn’t now holler from your seat. I advise you to imitate the parliamentary Buddha, the Father of the House, the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke), who is repose personified.
Ian Blackford
Thank you, Mr Speaker. We are used to Scottish Conservatives shouting from the sidelines.
This is a blindfold Brexit that will take Scotland out of the single market, which is eight times the size of the UK, and leave people at the mercy of the Tories as they continue to tear themselves apart. This is a rotten deal that will lead our economy down the path of destruction without adequate protections. We know that the Brexit uncertainty is already damaging our economy to the tune of £600 per household per year. The economists have been crystal clear that the Prime Minister’s deal—this deal—is set to hit GDP, the public finances and living standards, and the Government have simply done nothing about it. Well, except for the Chancellor. He did at least have a moment of weakness and tell the truth on BBC Radio 4, when he admitted that this deal would make our economy smaller and that “in pure economic terms” there would be a loss. Like the SNP, even the Chancellor accepted the benefits of remaining in the European Union when he said that
“clearly remaining in the European Union would be a better outcome for the economy”.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. An eight-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches now applies, though I fear that it will soon have to be reduced—but we shall see.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. This is a most extraordinary state of affairs. The hon. and learned Lady is seeking to rebut an intervention, but, Ms Gibson, you are literally yelling from beyond the Bar in a most eccentric fashion. Calm yourself and recover your composure.
Joanna Cherry
I am not going to waste what little time I have dignifying that intervention with a reply, other than simply to say that it shows the great ignorance of many members of the Labour party about the situation in Scotland, and why Labour is nose-diving into third position in Scotland, having once been in the lead.
To return to my point: when the Prime Minister says her aim is to bring the country back together, I do wonder which country she is talking about. The United Kingdom is a union of three nations—Scotland, England and Wales—and the Province of Northern Ireland. It is not one nation; it is a union of three nations and one province. Yet, the Prime Minister has taken no steps whatever—
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. On account of the demand and the time constraints, a five-minute limit will now apply, but I say to the hon. Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) that it is not obligatory to take the full five minutes.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. The time limit will now be reduced to four minutes, but I say to the right hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), to whose eloquence we are accustomed, that it is not obligatory for him to absorb his full time.
Mr Speaker
Order. The House must calm itself. It is up to the right hon. Gentleman to decide whether, and if so to whom, he wishes to give way. It is a matter for the right hon. Gentleman.
Stephen Barclay
Of course I will reflect the will of the House and give way, but what is interesting is that what we see on the Opposition Benches is a desire not to get into the substance but just to play politics with what is one of the most crucial decisions in our country’s history.
Joanna Cherry
Is the Attorney General going to add to the opinion he has already given? What the right hon. Gentleman is saying is really—
Mr Speaker
Order. The Secretary of State has already explained that he is speaking for the Government. Colleagues must make their own assessment. There is no time to delay.
Stephen Barclay
Given that I have but one minute left, let me say that what came through in the statement this morning is, if I can quote the Attorney General, that legal advice
“can only inform…a political decision”.
Tonight, the House faces a political decision. We have a strong message from our business community that wants certainty. We have a message from our citizens who want to know their rights are protected. We are a country that stands by its legal obligations, which is why we will settle the financial settlement. But the reality is that we face a fork in the road. It is time to choose. It is time to support this deal. It is time for our country to move forward. I commend the motion to the House.
Ian Blackford
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This is a humiliating defeat for the Government this evening, and this deal should not come back again in any way, shape or form. People will once again be looking at this Parliament and this Government in despair. The next few days will provide the opportunity finally to take some essential steps. Tomorrow, we have the opportunity to vote to block any attempt to leave the EU without a deal, and the Prime Minister must act—as the Prime Minister, not as the Tory party leader—to bring her party into line to prevent the UK from being dragged off a cliff by voting against a no-deal Brexit.
It is the duty of the Prime Minster, and of the Government, to act in all our national interests, and that means ruling out no deal. Then, we in the Scottish National party will be prepared to engage in discussion with the Government on securing an extension to article 50 that is long enough to enable this issue to be put back to the people. This afternoon, the First Minister of Scotland told the Prime Minister that in the event that the deal was voted down again, we would engage constructively on sensible proposals. Those proposals must include another EU referendum. Mr Speaker, can you advise me on what options are open to the House to bring such proposals forward swiftly in the interests of time? We have a responsibility to end the uncertainty for all our constituents and all our businesses.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order, which I think was probably directed at a wider audience. In so far as he asks me for advice, I think that these matters can be explored in debate almost imminently. The Prime Minister kindly announced what is to follow, and that will be elaborated upon by the Leader of the House in the supplementary or emergency business statement. The right hon. Gentleman is well familiar with the opportunities that are available to him in the Table Office, and I have every expectation that colleagues who want to air propositions in the coming days will have the opportunity to do so. I do not think that it is necessary for me to say anything further than that, but that seems to be manifest. Let us leave it there for now.
Mr Speaker
I will come to the right hon. Lady, who may well have important matters to broach not far distant from what the right hon. Member for Ross, Skye and Lochaber (Ian Blackford) has just raised, but let us take the point of order from the leader of the Liberal Democrats.
Sir Vince Cable
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. With your vast knowledge of parliamentary precedent and history, can you identify a single case, say since the American war of independence, in which a Prime Minister has twice been defeated—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Government Back-Benchers very unkindly spoiled the right hon. Gentleman’s punchline, as a consequence of which I did not hear it.
Sir Vince Cable
I asked for precedent for where a Prime Minister had survived—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Mr Ellis, calm yourself. I want to hear what the leader of the Liberal Democrats has to say.
Sir Vince Cable
I asked for precedent of a Prime Minister surviving two humiliating defeats, but being unwilling to change policy. Since we on the Liberal Democrat Benches are willing to offer an olive branch to embrace policies that she has so far rejected, will she accept the offer of friendship to do so?
Mr Speaker
I think that remains to be seen. As to the matter of precedents, it is usually unwise to assert that there is none for a particular circumstance unless one is absolutely certain, because most things have happened at one time or another—quite probably in my lifetime and certainly in that of the right hon. Gentleman. [Laughter.]
Yvette Cooper
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Businesses, public services and families urgently need some clarification about what will happen in just over two weeks’ time. The reason we provided for the votes over the next couple of days was to ensure that there could be a clear vote in this House on no deal and a clear vote in this House on extending article 50. The Prime Minister’s proposed motion for tomorrow sounded unclear to me. Can you therefore confirm that that motion will be laid with sufficient time for MPs to table amendments, if necessary, to ensure that the vote can be clear-cut and that there can be no misunderstanding or misinterpretation? Will you also confirm that if tomorrow’s vote is passed, the vote on extending article 50 will go ahead on Thursday and that there will be no new proposal to wait for the Government to attempt to put their deal back a third time, given how comprehensively it was defeated tonight?
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for her point of order, and I will bring forward what I would have said after the business statement by the Leader of the House and say it now instead in light of that concern. To be fair, I thought the Prime Minister’s commitment about what will take place tomorrow and Thursday was clear. The detail of the motion is another matter, but the chronology of events was all very clear.
Let me just say this: I hope it will be helpful to the House if I indicate, as I did in respect of today’s proceedings when I addressed the House last night, an advisory cut-off time of 10.30 am on Wednesday for manuscript amendments to tomorrow’s motion. My strong expectation, and I think I heard it, is that the motion for tomorrow, in accordance with normal practice, will be tabled tonight before the close of business, and there should be an opportunity for manuscript amendments up to 10.30 am tomorrow.
Amendments that reach the Table Office before the rise of the House tonight will appear on the Order Paper in the usual way, as those that were tabled before the close of business last night appeared on the Order Paper today in the usual way. The Table Office, which by the way we thank for its prodigious endeavours at this difficult time, will arrange the publication and distribution of a consolidated amendment list as soon as possible after 10.30 am on Wednesday, including all the manuscript amendments. I will announce my selection of amendments in the usual way at the beginning of the debate.
I hope that is helpful both to the right hon. Lady and, for that matter, to all colleagues.
Mr Speaker
These are important matters and, although the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) is a self-effacing fellow, he is an important man.
Hilary Benn
On a point of order, Mr Speaker, further to your announcement about manuscript amendments to the motion we will debate tomorrow. Depending on the outcome of that vote, we will, as the Prime Minister has just made clear, come to a motion on Thursday about seeking an extension to article 50. Could you please clarify—depending on what time that motion is tabled tomorrow, which clearly cannot be until we have voted to reject leaving with no deal—what arrangements you intend to apply for Thursday to allow for manuscript amendments in the way you have just set out for Wednesday?
Mr Speaker
The hours will be different, because we start earlier on a Thursday, but I will apply the same logic and, I hope, sense of reasonableness and desire to accommodate colleagues. I have not yet come to a particular view about the precise deadline for Thursday, but it is something I am happy to discuss privately with the right hon. Gentleman and other colleagues if they so wish. I will have the same consideration in mind. The House’s interest must be served, and I should seek to facilitate what Members want. I hope that is helpful.
Angus Brendan MacNeil
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. As Chair of the International Trade Committee, it is clear to me that Brexit now seems to be a busted flush, but it leaves us all in a very serious situation. The one option that the Prime Minister did not mention, but she mentioned it in private before, is that surely the Government must now move quickly to revoke article 50, as it is only 17 days away, or face self-inflicted economic damage and calamity to all our traders and businesses. Surely the way to leave with a deal is to maintain the deal that the UK currently has and revoke article 50. Can we see that before the House as an option for MPs to vote on in the 17 days of seriousness we now have before us?
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman chairs an important Select Committee in this place, the International Trade Committee. His brow was furrowed, he had a look of great seriousness and I thought he was going to make a purely procedural point. It is partly a procedural point but, if I may say so, it is also a political point, to which the answer is that there will be an opportunity for an amendment to be tabled to any motion on the prospective extension of article 50. The opportunity is there for colleagues, and, if an amendment is tabled and garners significant support, that will be a factor in the mind of the Chair in deciding whether to select it. It is open to him to table such an amendment, and I have a feeling he will go beetling around the House in hot pursuit of colleagues who share his views on this matter.
Liz Saville Roberts
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I note that the Prime Minister listed revocation, a different deal or a people’s vote. I seek your advice on how this House will ascertain those choices.
Mr Speaker
Forgive me, but I think the hon. Lady has foxed me. I apologise to her, because I am sure her point was an extremely good and clear one, but it was not clear to me immediately. Would she just put that question to me again, because I am not quite sure what she is seeking?
Liz Saville Roberts
We have been presented with three options by the Prime Minister: revocation, a different deal, or a people’s vote. What I seek is clarity on how this House, which is being seen outside to be very good at disagreeing, will actually arrive at agreement on one of these points.
Mr Speaker
The answer is that there are terms of debate for tomorrow and for Thursday, but that is not necessarily the end of the debate. In fact, I think I can say with almost complete certainty that it will not be the end of the debates on these matters. I see the Chancellor chuckling, I think in agreement with that proposition. It will be the end of Thursday’s debates and no more than that. So the answer to the hon. Lady’s question is that if Members wish to test the will of the House on a variety of different options, there will be such an opportunity. This point has been flagged up by the Father of the House, the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) and others. If it is the will of colleagues that there should be such a series of votes, I think it almost certain that that opportunity will arise in the coming days or weeks.
If there are no further points of order, we can now conveniently come to the business statement by the Leader of the House.