Charter for Budget Responsibility

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 14th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas]

The moment to stop borrowing is when we can no longer afford to pay it back—[Laughter.] We can perfectly afford to pay back our investment, which is why economists are laughing at the Chancellor—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. [Hon. Members: “More!”] Order! Mr Cleverly, you are convulsed by mirth. You are in an uncontrollable state. I am worried about your perilous condition, man. Calm yourself and get a grip. The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) must be heard—[Hon. Members: “More!”] Order. The hon. Lady’s remaining contribution, which I know will be extremely brief, will be heard by the House and the clock will be stopped if she is interrupted again. We had better be very clear about that.

[Caroline Lucas]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. If we are investing in jobs, that gets taxes going back into the Revenue, which is good for the economy. That is why economists are saying that the Chancellor’s silly trick is very bad economics, even if it is very clever politics to make all his friends laugh a lot. People across the country are not laughing, because he is increasing austerity and increasing the burden on the poorest.

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[Helen Goodman]

Will he—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Lady is pressing the point. The Chancellor is not giving way at this stage.

[Mr Osborne]

I think, quite frankly, that a period of silence from the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) would be very welcome.

Monetary financing is a very old argument in the economic history of the world and we know that it invariably leads to rising prices, soaring inflation, savings being wiped out, money being debased, stability being destroyed, jobs being lost and total economic chaos. It might sound new and attractive, but it is in fact very old and very dangerous.

This is what current and former Labour Members have said about that approach. The right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper), the former Chief Secretary to the Treasury, warns that it is “really bad economics”. Jack Straw, pointing to the history of Weimar Germany and Venezuela, said it was

“bound to end in tears”.

The last Labour—[Interruption.] The Labour party now dismisses the views of Jack Straw and the right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford. It probably also dismisses those of the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie), who said to me a few weeks ago, “This approach will hurt the very people we should be standing up for, they will pay the price—the poor and the vulnerable.” Yet it is the much advertised economic policy of the shadow Chancellor and his Labour leader. It has been supported by the Labour movement, and it must be challenged and defeated.

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[John McDonnell]

May I apologise to the hon. Gentleman, as I was too harsh? I certainly do not want to be with the hon. and learned Lady, but if she could just keep up it would be really helpful. I have tried to reiterate three times—I have said it three times. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let us have a bit of order, on both sides. The nature of such a debate is the existence of strong and contrary opinions. If people insist on shouting from a sedentary position as part of a sort of group therapy, thinking they are being clever, they should just think of what the electorate want, which is a civilised debate, not the most juvenile badinage.

[John McDonnell]

I am sorry for being so ungallant to the hon. and learned Lady and I apologise to her for that, but I have explained three times already.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I thank the right hon. Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) for his extreme succinctness. Just before I call the Scottish National party spokesperson, I would just point out that, as a Front Bencher, the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) will not be subject to the time limit, but that we must conclude at 8.45 and approximately 20 Back Benchers wish to speak—a point of which I know the hon. Gentleman will sensitively wish to take account.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. In the light of the level of interest in the debate, a four-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches will apply with immediate effect.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

The time limit will be reduced to three minutes to facilitate the participation of one more Member.

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That the Charter for Budget Responsibility: autumn 2015 update which was laid before this House on 12 October, be approved.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mrs Caroline Spelman to present a petition. [Interruption.] I feel it necessary to make the point I almost unfailingly have to make in these circumstances: if there are right hon. and hon. Members who unaccountably are not staying to hear the petition, perhaps they would be good enough to leave the Chamber quickly and quietly so that the right hon. Lady can deliver her petition and be heard.