European Council

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2017 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)]

I would like to thank the Prime Minister for giving me an advance copy of this statement. I too want to underline the importance of respect for human rights and democracy in Turkey, and say to the Government of Turkey that imprisoning journalists and lawyers is not part of that process and is not acceptable. Also, we need to defend the Iran nuclear deal, which was rightly defended at the EU Council last week. We must all do everything we can to defend it and to prevent the proliferation of any nuclear weapons.

I also commend the service of the Royal Navy in Operation Sophia which, as the Prime Minister pointed out, has already saved thousands of lives.

In relation to Libya, nothing is more pressing than securing a viable long-term peaceful settlement to that country’s problems. Given the language used by her Foreign Secretary on this matter, the Prime Minister might need to take the lead on this, just as she has had to take over the lead from her Brexit Secretary on negotiations with the EU.

I am beginning to feel a worrying sense of groundhog day every time the Prime Minister gives us an update on the progress of negotiations. Only two weeks ago, she told the House that her speech in Florence had put momentum into the article 50 negotiations and that an agreement on phase 1 of the talks was within touching distance. Well, here we are again, after another round of talks, and we are still no clearer as to when negotiations on Britain’s future with our largest trading partner will actually begin, and still no clearer as to what exactly she has agreed to in phase 1 of the talks.

In what are the most crucial negotiations in our country’s recent history, we are clearly stuck in an impasse. There has been no real progress abroad, and no progress at home, especially given the fact that the Prime Minister’s European Union (Withdrawal) Bill has been delayed, presumably to allow the Government Whips to pull together the splits in her own party. Maybe she can shed some light on all this confusion, which has only been escalated by members of her own Government. For instance, the Home Secretary says that no deal with the EU would be “unthinkable”. The Brexit Secretary still maintains that no deal must be an option, while the Secretary of State for International Trade says that leaving without a deal

“would not be the Armageddon that people project”.

Does the Prime Minister believe that an outcome that is not Armageddon might be setting the bar a bit too low?

The Prime Minister will also be aware that leaders of every major business organisation have written to her today urging her to provide clarity, and quickly. Across the UK, businesses in every region and nation are clear that they need a transition deal with the EU to be put in place as soon as possible so that they can take investment decisions in order to protect jobs and investment in this country. I know that the Prime Minister has talked about the need for an implementation period after we leave the EU, but she has not been clear about the terms and conditions involved. Can she tell us now what she means by accepting the same basic conditions in an implementation period? Surely this can only mean remaining within the single market and the customs union for the transition period, as Labour has made clear.

On EU citizens’ rights, the Prime Minister says, again, that an agreement is in reach. Can she tell us when the detail of that agreement will be ready to bring to the House and, more importantly, to show to all those people in this country and in the EU who are desperate to know what their future holds? That could have been dealt with 16 months ago. Instead, families are suffering anxiety, and some EU citizens are deciding to leave, including nurses from our national health service. If that had been resolved, as it should have been, hundreds of thousands of British nationals would also have the security that they need. Will the Prime Minister tell us what will happen to this specific agreement on citizens’ rights if her Government fail to secure a final Brexit deal with the EU? Will the Prime Minister now do the right thing and guarantee the rights of citizens living in the UK, regardless of the outcome of the article 50 negotiations?

On the financial settlement, clearly some within the European Union need to stop briefing astronomical and unacceptable numbers, but will the Prime Minister confirm the reports that she privately assured European leaders that Britain would pay more than the offer she made in her Florence speech? If that is the case, is she confident that it would pass the red lines set out by the Foreign Secretary a few weeks ago? The Prime Minister hails the progress that she has made so far in these negotiations. The biggest battle that she faces is not so much with the other 27 European states the Chancellor so deftly described as “the enemy”, but her battle to bring together the warring factions in her own Cabinet and party. The Prime Minister is too weak to do anything about it. The outcome of crashing out with no deal to become a deregulated tax haven—the dream of a powerful faction on her Back Benches and Front Bench—would be a nightmare for people’s jobs and living standards. Labour’s message is different and clear: only Labour can negotiate a Brexit and deliver an economy—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Prime Minister’s statement was heard with courtesy, and so will the response be. No further discussion or comment is required. That is the situation.

[Jeremy Corbyn]

I was making it clear that Labour’s message is different and very clear indeed: only Labour can negotiate a Brexit and deliver an economy that puts jobs and living standards first, and that is what we are ready to do.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

Ah yes, a Lincolnshire knight. I call Sir Edward Leigh.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

May I commend the Prime Minister’s approach based on the Florence speech, which is entirely sensible, pragmatic and moderate? Given that we are being entirely open about our negotiating tactics, which is that no European nation, or indeed any European citizens, should be worse off, may I encourage her to be more transparent and open with Parliament on the figures? I know that the reserve position of Whitehall is that Parliament is a nuisance, but what else was Brexit about except reviving parliamentary democracy? We still have no idea what we have offered or what is being demanded. We could do with some more information because, ultimately, there will be a vote on this in the House and that will be a vote that counts.

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[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

I call the good doctor—Dr Julian Lewis.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

If our EU friends were to demand a sum of, say, £1 trillion, rather than £100 billion, the position of the Opposition would have to be to accept that, because they would not walk away under any circumstances. Given that the Government would walk away under unacceptable circumstances of that sort, can the Prime Minister reassure us that all necessary preparations will be made so that we can walk away without a deal if we need to, which will, of course, maximise the prospect of getting a good deal and not having to walk away?

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[The Prime Minister]

The key issue is that this is about the period of time required to make the practical changes that are necessary to move to the future partnership. Of course, by definition, those changes will have a time limit to them. I have said that that will be around two years, on the implications of the practicalities of what we are looking at. It is absolutely essential that it is time-limited, because we will have left the European Union and we will be moving to a new partnership. People in the United Kingdom want to ensure that we get to that partnership and our new arrangement outside the European Union.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Dr Philippa Whitford. [Interruption.] She looks surprised. It will not breach a precedent if the hon. Lady does not wish to contribute. She is not obliged to do so, but I assumed that she would wish to contribute, and she is welcome to do so. Let us hear the hon. Lady.

[Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP)]

We have heard about the possibility of a no deal Brexit. What about the threat that that would pose, through leaving the single aviation market, to this country’s entire aviation industry?

[The Prime Minister]

We are aware of the necessity of looking very closely at and negotiating deals in relation to aviation, because we want people still to be able to fly, as they can today. But, once again, the hon. Lady is focusing on a no deal scenario, when the efforts of Government are being put into getting a good deal.

[Mr Speaker]

Absolutely splendid. A true parliamentarian is never lost for words.

[James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)]

Although we all hope that our European partners will start to negotiate on trade, is there not a silver lining if they are unreasonable? If that happens, we will have to move towards WTO rules, and suddenly the French and Germans will realise what a disaster that would be—for their economies, not ours. They will negotiate a good deal, and we will not write out the blank cheque that Labour Members want to give them.

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[Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab)]

Last week, I took part in an Exiting the European Union Committee trip to Dover, where 10,000 heavy goods vehicles are processed per day. There we were told that if an extra two minutes are added to the customs proceedings, there will be an additional 17 miles of tailback—from Dover to Ashford. We were also told that, in that context, a no deal scenario would be a total catastrophe. Will the Prime Minister please explain what measures are being put in place to avoid total gridlock in Dover in the event of a no deal scenario? [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is a long way from Northumberland. The hon. Member for Blyth Valley (Mr Campbell) is wittering away from a sedentary position in evident appreciation of the point articulated by his hon. Friend, whose constituency is far distant from his own. It is all inexplicable.

[The Prime Minister]

I think the hon. Gentleman was making the point from a sedentary position that this issue will actually affect others on the other side of the channel, as well as those in the United Kingdom.

The point is that we have published proposals. The future customs relationship will be part of the negotiations, as we look to the future trade relationship, but we published proposals in the summer about a number of options that could be adopted to ensure that we see trade that is as frictionless as possible across the borders, and the problem that the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) raises does not arise.

[Mr Speaker]

It was very good of the Prime Minister to explain what the hon. Member for Blyth Valley was blathering on about, because I could not tell. I am very grateful for that bit of information.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

This morning I met a gentleman who was singing the praises of the Prime Minister, saying that she is determined yet patient and that she gets things done. I think that the whole House would agree with that. He went on to say that he reads the newspapers and is very concerned about progress not being made and about things being terrible. Does the Prime Minister agree with what the newspapers are saying or not? One other thing, Mr Speaker: I asked the man what newspaper he read and it was the Evening Standard.

[The Prime Minister]

I say to my hon. Friend that we have a free press in this country and that is an important underpinning of our democracy. What I know is what the Government are doing to ensure that we get a good deal for the future.

[Mr Speaker]

Mr Campbell, I heard you from your seat; let us hear you on your feet if you are still interested.

[Mr Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley) (Lab)]

And here’s me thinking you weren’t going to call me, Mr Speaker.

Seeing as we are not in the euro, will the Prime Minister guarantee that none of the money that the EU finally gets off us will be used to prop up the euro? That is a good question, like Mr Speaker said. We are not in the euro, so our money should not be used for it. The only problem the Prime Minister has is that some of her Cabinet Ministers are walking up the gangway towards the gallow.

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[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister used her new mantra of a “deep and special partnership” three times in the statement, even though the lack of progress, the business uncertainty and the splits in her Government mean that in reality, the phrase “deep and special” is the new “strong and stable”—an empty slogan from an empty-vessel caretaker Prime Minister. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Gosh, it really is a day of name-calling. I cannot imagine that that is the sort of behaviour I would ever have indulged in.

[The Prime Minister]

I say to the hon. Gentleman that what we saw at the European Council was the EU27 moving towards their own discussions about what that deep and special partnership will be in the future.

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[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady looks as if she does not believe that that is possible. The point is that we start these negotiations on a completely different basis from any other third country. We start on the basis that we are already trading with the other member states of the European Union on the basis of rules and regulations, and when we leave we will have taken those EU regulations, EU law and the EU acquis, into UK law.

[Mr Speaker]

I think it is time to hear from the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), whose father is a sound Arsenal fan.

[Mr Jonathan Djanogly (Huntingdon) (Con)]

Actually, he always used to take me to Nottingham Forest, but there you are.

In contrast to the disappointment coming consistently from the bureaucracy of Europe, in my right hon. Friend’s discussions with the leadership—the politicians—of Europe and individual member states, is the position more nuanced? Is there hope for optimism?

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[The Prime Minister]

I agree with my hon. Friend. I am afraid that all we hear from the Opposition Benches are speeches and questions and, indeed, votes that are intended to thwart the will of the British people. What British taxpayers want is for the Government to get on with the job, which is exactly what we are doing. What they do not want is an Opposition who say to the European Union, “Just tell us the bill, and we will pay whatever it is.”

[Mr Speaker]

Tom Brake.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I thought that that might be the timing.

When is the Prime Minister going to face down the ideologues in her party—on her Back Benches, and, indeed, in her Cabinet—who, from the safety of their stately homes and their châteaux, their trust funds and their inherited wealth, clamour for a no deal that they know would do huge damage to the “just about managing”, leave the UK weaker, and make our position in the world much smaller? When is she going to stand up for remain voters, and, indeed, for the leave voters who do not want the economic catastrophe that the Eurosceptic obsessives on her Benches wish to inflict on us?

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[The Prime Minister]

Yes, I am happy to give my hon. Friend that assurance. We have been clear that we have been keeping the Gibraltar Government in touch with the work that we have been doing, and we continue to work with them. We will continue to assure them that we will take their interests into account at every stage.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Alan Brown.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker—[Laughter.]

[Mr Speaker]

Was it something I said? Let us hear the hon. Gentleman.

[Alan Brown]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. A week after the universal credit debacle, the Prime Minister has the cheek to come to the Chamber and tell us that she is determined to put people first. The reality is that we are 16 months down the line and there is as yet no agreement on settled status for EU nationals. Given that that is a No. 1 priority, this does not bode well for the rest of the negotiations that we are trusting her with. However, if we are within touching distance of an agreement on settled status, what plans does she have for being able to process up to 3 million applications?