Class 4 National Insurance Contributions

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I remind the House that colleagues who arrived in the Chamber after the start of the statement should not stand or expect to be called. That is a very long-standing convention of the House.

[Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op)]

This is obviously an acutely embarrassing episode for the Chancellor, but will he not acknowledge that it is also quite embarrassing for those of his colleagues, including the Prime Minister, whom he sent out there to defend this breaking of the manifesto commitment? Has he already apologised to the Prime Minister and to his colleagues, or will he take this opportunity to say sorry to them from the Dispatch Box?

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[Mr Hammond]

The right hon. Gentleman says, “Dear me”. I repeat: he does not—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We cannot have these shouting matches across the Chamber. [Interruption.] It is not for me to tell anybody to do anything. I am asking people not to do things that they should not do: shouting across the Box. I now exhort the Chancellor to continue with his response.

[Mr Hammond]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

The right hon. Gentleman does not believe in fiscal neutrality—that is a fact. He believes in borrowing £500 billion of additional money, and saddling our children and our grandchildren with that debt. However, I very much take my right hon. Friend’s advice on maintaining fiscal neutrality and dealing with the structural issue that underlies this statement.

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[Roger Mullin (Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath) (SNP)]

This is another right boorach. The last Chancellor who had to make a U-turn lasted only a few weeks thereafter, so before this Chancellor leaves office, will he confirm that, since he said that this decision was only made at 8 o’clock in the morning, that means it has not been taken to the full Cabinet?

[Mr Speaker]

I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman; I shall add the word “boorach” to my vocabulary.

[Mr Hammond]

Yes, the decision was made by me and the Prime Minister this morning.

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[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I make a germane point of order?

[Mr Speaker]

It is quite a proud and ambitious boast of the right hon. Gentleman that his point of order will be germane. The first thing to establish is that I will exceptionally take points of order now if they flow directly from the matters with which we have just been dealing. Otherwise, they will have to wait.

[Alex Salmond]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I, too, have an extremely germane point of order.

[Mr Speaker]

Extremely germane? Well, there is a Dutch auction in relevance taking place here.

[Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I am going to take the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey), who is speaking from the Front Bench, first, and I shall save the other Members for the delectation of the House.

[Rebecca Long Bailey]

In response to questions, the Chancellor stated that I had confirmed, with reference to the National Insurance Contributions (Rate Ceilings) Bill, that this discharged the Tories’ national insurance manifesto pledge. For the benefit of the record, I stated that it was part of their wider pledge to cap income tax, VAT and national insurance contributions. On Second Reading, I stated that it was part of the Government’s policy to cap national insurance contributions for this Parliament and went on to state:

“If they are going to legislate for every pre-election promise, surely they should apply that to every manifesto pledge. They are certainly not doing that.”—[Official Report, 27 October 2015; Vol. 601, c. 19.]

Interestingly—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sorry, but I cannot have a lengthy dilation. That is not appropriate. If the hon. Lady has something specifically for me, which she can encapsulate in a short sentence of no more than 20 words, I will treat of it.

[Rebecca Long Bailey]

I respectfully request that the Chancellor retracts the comments he made earlier on that very question. They are factually incorrect.

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Lady has made her request. The Chancellor can respond, but he is not procedurally obliged to do so. If the right hon. Gentleman wants to respond briefly, he may.

[Mr Hammond]

Further to that point of order, Let me merely and briefly read the hon. Lady’s words as recorded in Hansard:

“As we have heard, this Bill enacts the Conservatives’ manifesto pledge not to increase NICs in this Parliament.”—[Official Report, 3 November 2015; Vol. 601, c. 914.]

[Mr Speaker]

I cannot instruct Members on which sentence they should read, but I rather suspect that if Members wish to return to these matters, they may choose to do so.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

rose—

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[Mr Speaker]

Two Members are standing, both of whom are distinguished products of the University of St Andrews. They seem to be in some fierce competition with each other as to the respective relevance of their points of order. I call Mr Salmond.

[Alex Salmond]

On a point of order, A wise choice, Sir. My point of order, extremely germanely, is about collective responsibility for the Budget. Traditionally, it was held that a Budget was outwith collective responsibility, but more recently, the practice has been to take the Budget to Cabinet and then bring it to the House, thus ensuring collective responsibility. The Chancellor told us a few seconds ago that this mark 2 Budget could not, by definition, have been subject to that Cabinet responsibility, because he and the Prime Minister decided on it at breakfast this morning.

May I have a ruling, Mr Speaker, on two emergency measures? First, may I suggest that, to ensure that all Ministers are bound to support the Chancellor through collective responsibility, there should be an emergency Cabinet meeting to give the change to the Budget the sanction of that collective responsibility? Secondly, may I suggest that Laura Kuenssberg of the BBC should be brought into the Cabinet so that its members can get it right the first time?

[Mr Speaker]

Far be it from me to have to say this to the right hon. Gentleman, but I think that he has raised a notably political point under the elegant cloak of constitutionalism. He does have some experience and dexterity in these matters, and I am therefore not altogether surprised at his ingenuity on this occasion. However, I do not think that it warrants a response from the Chair beyond that which I have offered. His point is on the record.

[Mr Peter Bone]

But not germane. [Laughter.]

[Mr Speaker]

I do not wish to adjudicate upon how relevant it is—

[Mr Bone]

Division?

[Mr Speaker]

But it has been heard, and I do not wish further time to be taken up by a Division of the House. Now we must hear the point of order from Sir Desmond Swayne.

[Sir Desmond Swayne]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. As a slavish supporter of the Government, I am in some difficulty. My article for the Forest Journal, robustly supporting the Chancellor’s earlier policy, is already with the printer. [Laughter.] Having been persuaded of the correctness of the course that the Chancellor is now following, I merely needed an opportunity to recant. [Laughter.]

[Mr Speaker]

I hope that the right hon. Gentleman is satisfied that, by a wanton abuse of the point of order procedure, he has found his own salvation. We will leave it there for now.

I am glad that the House is in such a good mood, and I am sure that it has an insatiable appetite for the next statement. However, I have just been advised that this might be a convenient moment at which to announce the result of deferred Divisions. We are building up a sense of anticipation for the Secretary of State for International Development.

I have now to announce the result of the day’s deferred Divisions. In respect of the question relating to social security, the Ayes were 292 and the Noes were 236, so the question was agreed to. In respect of the question relating to the Crown, the Ayes were 464 and the Noes were 56.

[The Division list is published at the end of today’s debates.]