Taxi Licensing: Deregulation Act 2015

Debate between Simon Lightwood and John Hayes

Monday 21st October 2024 Commons Chamber

[Simon Lightwood]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. I agree that our taxi trade played a vital role during the covid pandemic. I will, of course, take his comments away with me.

Rather than decline or cancel a booking, if an operator did not have a driver and vehicle available, the ability to subcontract to another operator, often within the same company, meant passengers would be better served, as they would not have to find an alternative. The operator could do that for them. Ending the subcontracting of bookings to operators licensed by another authority would not stop out-of-area working. Under the current legislation, it would remain possible for a PHV or a taxi licensed by any licensing authority to carry passengers anywhere. If subcontracting was banned again, and banned in London for the first time, operators would be able to choose to license with a single authority or to have regional hubs and direct all bookings through those.

I turn now to cross-border hiring or out-of-area working, which I believe more accurately reflects the real issue. The difference—I hope we can all accept this —is that people naturally travel across local authority borders, and that some flexibility in the licensing system is beneficial to both passengers and the sector. Out-of-area working is the practice whereby the PHV driver licenses with one authority but intends to work predominantly or exclusively in other areas. PHVs provide a wide range of services, such as home-to-school transport, executive hire and other specialised services. We need to ensure that our regulation of the sector provides the necessary flexibility, while ensuring that local authorities have the tools they need to deliver on their objectives for the industry.

[Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for giving way. He will not necessarily be aware—I would not expect him to be, nor the hon. Member for Harlow (Chris Vince), whom I congratulate on securing the debate—that as a Transport Minister, I commissioned a major piece of work on taxi licensing. The report was conducted by Professor Mohammed Abdel-Haq and all its recommendations were accepted by the then Government. They were focused on safety, and the relationship between the protection of passengers and licensing. I invite the Minister to take a look at that report. It is not partisan and I am sure there is much in it that might inform the debate and service some of the requirements that have been so admirably cited by the hon. Member for Harlow.

[Simon Lightwood]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his intervention, and I will certainly take a look at the report.

I understand that there are concerns about authorities’ ability to carry out effective enforcement in their areas, especially against drivers and vehicles that they have not licensed. We are considering numerous options to address that, but I would also urge caution. Certain options could have negative consequences, both for the sector and for passengers. Restricting operations could reduce the availability of services, increasing fares and waiting times for passengers, and bringing more dead miles for drivers. I am sure the last thing any of us would want to do is to drive members of the public into the cars of those who are unlicensed and unvetted, waiting at the roadside or offering rides on social media.

We also need to consider the context within which we are working. In England, there are 263 licensing authorities. A high number of authorities are, in some cases, responsible for licensing a very small number of drivers and vehicles which serve a small area.