Oral Answers to Questions

Simon Baynes Excerpts

Tuesday 1st December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)]

What steps his Department is taking to support self-employed people affected by the covid-19 outbreak.

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

What steps his Department is taking to support self-employed people affected by the covid-19 outbreak.

[Sir Robert Neill (Bromley and Chislehurst) (Con)]

What steps he is taking to support freelancers during the covid-19 outbreak.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jesse Norman]

I should make it perfectly clear to my hon. Friend, as the Chancellor has, that we take these points extremely seriously. We have been given many different suggestions over the past few months for ways in which we could accommodate these concerns. We have looked at them very closely, and so far we have struggled to find one that meets the need to avoid the fraud risk that bedevils this concern. I responded last week to the latest request to meet from the Federation of Small Businesses, the Association of Chartered Certified Accountants and Forgotten Ltd to explore the latest of these schemes. I have also said that I would be happy to meet the all-party parliamentary group, alongside ExcludedUK, to address these questions.

[Simon Baynes]

When will the recently announced increase in the coronavirus business interruption loan scheme term from six to 10 years come into effect? That is of particular importance to businesses that have been hard hit by the crisis, such as the wedding venue and hospitality sectors in Clwyd South and elsewhere in the UK.

[Jesse Norman]

We of course recognise the concerns that my hon. Friend raises. We should be clear that the purpose of this extension is not simply to allow borrowers to request a 10-year term. It is that the guarantee offered by the Government on these schemes should be extended up to 10 years where lenders deem that a forbearance tool that borrowers may need and benefit from. My colleagues are working at pace with the British Business Bank to implement the policy in line with state aid rules.

Additional Covid-19 Restrictions: Fair Economic Support

Simon Baynes Excerpts

Wednesday 21st October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

Since March, the UK Government have provided unprecedented support to Wales, including £4.4 billion in financial support to the Welsh Government and the protection of 400,000 jobs through the furlough scheme. In my constituency of Clwyd South, many people, businesses and organisations have asked me to thank the Chancellor for providing such widespread and well targeted support.

At the heart of the debate today is the issue of responsibility for economic support when areas of the UK face additional restrictions. Implicit within it is the understanding by all parties that lockdown does have an impact on businesses and jobs, even with the most generous package of support. We were therefore surprised to learn last weekend via a leaked letter that the Welsh Government were intending to lock down all of Wales for two and a half weeks from Friday, given that significant parts of the country have low infection rates.

Many people across Wales feel that the Welsh Government approach should, like the Westminster Government’s, be targeted at the areas of high infection and that the tier system should also be introduced in Wales. The national lockdown in Wales is therefore unnecessarily damaging businesses and jobs, as was implicitly agreed by the hon. Member for Swansea East (Carolyn Harris). It is harming businesses in areas of low infection, which then puts a huge extra burden on the provision of economic support from the Government.

It is difficult to understand how the Welsh Government have arrived at their decision, but part of the answer lies in their reluctance to co-operate with the UK Government on covid-19 discussions and the fact that they deliberately ignored the reality explained to them by the UK Government: that the new package of financial support could not be delivered until the beginning of November. It is also due to the fact that they have been very slow to publish coronavirus infection rates district by district; such figures were available from Public Health Wales only yesterday, well after the lockdown decision had been made. The other reason is a lack of scrutiny and accountability within the Senedd, where the national lockdown was not even debated before it was announced—a sharp contrast to this House, where the level of scrutiny of ministerial decisions is rightly much higher, as this debate and many others demonstrate.

In conclusion, fair economic support is vital, but it is also closely related to making the right decisions about lockdown given that the broad shoulders of the UK Treasury’s resources are not limitless and that we need to target financial support, just as we need to target restrictions on those areas with the highest rates of infection.

Black History Month

Simon Baynes Excerpts

Tuesday 20th October 2020 Commons Chamber

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

I am very pleased that we are marking Black History Month, as it is an opportunity to bring to the fore the many untold stories of black Britons of African and Caribbean descent, who, for many generations, have made significant contributions to our society, but who deserve much greater recognition.

I studied history at university and published a book of social and architectural history last year, which, during the process of research, led me to conclude that there is much more to be done in exploring and paying tribute to the enormous contribution that black British people have made and continue to make in shaping our history.

Given the covid-19 pandemic, I am also very pleased that, during this Black History Month, we have been celebrating the lives of black public servants who have done so much to support and improve our country. Later this afternoon, I will be attending a meeting of the Speaker’s Advisory Committee on Works of Art, of which I am a member, and we will be discussing a series of activities and initiatives to focus on improving diversity of representation and inclusivity in relation to the parliamentary art collection, as summarised in the Committee’s press release of 30 September. In particular, we will be reviewing expanding the ethnic diversity within the collection and gaining a better understanding of the work that comparable experts and organisations are undertaking with their collections outside Parliament. Reinterpretation is likely to form a key part of the approach, rather than removing artworks from display, and all the discussions will be open and transparent. I hope that, over time, this will make a significant contribution to the appreciation of black history and become an important educational resource.

The national curriculum, as it stands, is inclusive and flexible, allowing teachers to teach about black, Asian and minority ethnic history. Nothing in the history curriculum is compulsory, so mandating the teaching of particular areas of history would lead to the charge that we are excluding others. Instead, teachers have the freedom and flexibility as to the focus that they want their pupils to have.

I hope that the recently announced Commission on Race and Ethnic Disparities will make a major contribution to this debate, given that education is one of the key areas on which it will focus.

I applaud the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare) for bringing us this debate, and the hon. Members of all parties who sponsored it. I am very pleased to see it return after a five-year gap and I hope it will not be another five years before we hold another. It makes a major contribution to marking Black History Month and deepens our understanding of how the study of history should address the past and should be taught across the UK. Above all, it reminds us and emphasises that people of all races in this country have a shared history and a shared future together.

Productivity: Rural Areas

Simon Baynes Excerpts

Wednesday 14th October 2020 Westminster Hall

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

I am very proud that in Clwyd South, my constituency on the Welsh borders, we have achieved the first universal service obligation in Wales, but it has been hard work and, as other hon. Members have mentioned, there is much more to be done. There are real problems with BT Openreach. We must make sure that the £5 billion investment that has been promised by the UK Government gets into the system, and that we can untangle a lot of the problems. Yes, we have made progress, but there is more work to be done.

The second area where we can improve rural productivity is by devolving as many powers as possible locally. I was a county councillor, a town councillor and mayor of my rural town before I became an MP, so I have had practical experience of trying to improve rural areas. In Clwyd South, Wrexham County Borough Council and Denbighshire County Council made many of the key decisions affecting rural life, from roads and housing to schools and local facilities. Sometimes we forget that many of the levers to achieve what we want to achieve lie at the local level.

Finally, I emphasise that in rural areas the proportion of small and medium-sized businesses is much higher than in urban areas. Therefore, policies that bolster those businesses are extremely important, particularly the availability of office and workshop space. That is a major problem in many rural areas and we need to create the planning conditions that allow for that, combined, as other hon. Members have mentioned, with improved provision of skills, training and apprenticeships.

Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies (Environmentally Sustainable Investment) Bill

Simon Baynes Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Friday 11th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

I, too, would like to acknowledge the hard work of the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin) in securing this debate and bringing the Bill to the House. The excellent work of co-operatives and community benefit societies is felt very deeply in my constituency of Clwyd South and elsewhere in Wales and the UK. As the hon. Member mentioned, many people are very grateful for the help and support they have provided, particularly during the covid-19 pandemic. Often, they have been in a position to fill in the gaps in provision, which has been so important over the past few months.

I, too, pay tribute to Wales as the birthplace of the co-operative movement. I grew up just south of my constituency in Montgomeryshire, and Newtown, the centre of that county, is where Robert Owen was born in 1771. He is a much admired figure, although

in my opinion he should be better known to the outside world, as I am sure the hon. Member would agree. His progression through life was very interesting, in the sense that it was on a truly United Kingdom basis. He grew up in Newtown; then he went to work in England, where he ran a mill in Manchester; and then went to help his father-in-law run his mills at New Lanark, which became probably the most famous aspect of his work. He was therefore represented in three of the four countries that make up the United Kingdom. I also agree with the hon. Member, however, that there is something in the culture and society of Wales that has a great affinity with the co-operative movement.

I welcome the intention of the Bill to introduce another mechanism by which to promote environmentally sustainable investment. I, too, agree that the bottom-up approach is extremely important in such environmental investment. I have seen that very much in my constituency—for instance, in Corwen, which has an interesting hydroelectric scheme that was developed by the community. That was one of the reasons why earlier this year I supported the Local Electricity Bill, a private Member’s Bill that would make it easier for such projects to feed their electricity into the national grid.

I strongly support such a localised projects, and the Dee valley in my constituency is full of innovative environmental schemes. Heat pumps are an important part of that, and diversification through environmental projects is extremely important for the farming community, which often finds itself struggling in current circumstances. The co-operative movement is an important part of how the farming community operates, so building environmental projects from the ground up through the co-operative movement makes good sense.

I welcome the UK Government’s record in this area and the progress that they continue to make in improving the environment for everyone’s benefit. We have heard various statistics quoted this morning from both sides of the House, but we should be in no doubt that this Government and, to be fair, previous Governments have made considerable progress. For instance, carbon emissions fell by 42% between 1990 and 2017. There is plenty more to do, but we are on the right trajectory. I am pleased that the Government have renewed their commitment to environmental projects—for instance, by committing to plant 40 million more trees, restore peatland to capture carbon and create the community-led nature recovery network to create and enhance local habitats and by tripling the funding that helps to preserve the globally significant biodiversity in the UK overseas territories and their waters. These are just a few of the many examples of this Government’s commitment to the environment.

As was touched on earlier, the Government have also sought to find the right conduits to promote the environment through the financial world. In July 2019, the Government published their “Green Finance Strategy”, which details action in three areas: greening financial services, accelerating investment into the UK’s clean growth and working to position the UK at the vanguard of the global green finance market. Progress has been made in environmentally sustainable investment, and it continues to be made. Like others, I pay tribute to the enormous contribution made by mutuals and co-operatives to our diverse UK economy, including in Clwyd South and across Wales and the UK. The importance of the sector is shown by the fact that the all-party group for mutuals found that mutuals generate more than £130 billion of income each year.

It is perhaps worth reminding ourselves of the precise wording of the Bill:

“A Bill to enable co-operative and community benefit societies to raise external share capital for the purpose of making environmentally sustainable investment; to make associated provisions about restricting conversion to company status and the distribution of capital on winding-up; and for connected purposes.”

It is entirely admirable to consider ways to increase our ability to invest in co-operatives. Those are admirable aims, and I am pleased to hear about the close co-operation and consultation that has taken place between the hon. Member for Cardiff North and the Government, as that is crucial.

All Government Members greatly respect the Bill’s aims and intentions. However, my professional background has given me experience of factors that might militate against the Bill’s good intentions. For 25 years, I worked in the financial and business world and on solutions to help companies raise funds for a wide ranges of purposes, including environmental improvements. For the past 15 years, I have been on the other side of the fence, having set up two charities and served as a trustee in non-profit making enterprises, during which time I worked with co-operatives and community benefit societies.

From that experience, I learned—I accept that the Bill does not state that this should always be the case—that one size does not fit all with community investment. I have spent many hours, particularly in the past 15 years, working with community groups and considering ways to create a structure for them to gain membership and financial support. Co-operatives are an important part of that, but other structures also suit the circumstances, and we must bear that in mind.

That practical hands-on experience makes me concerned that the Bill may undermine the integrity of co-operatives and expose them to exploitation as investment vehicles, rather than socially beneficial institutions. I fully accept that the hon. Lady seeks to place safeguards in the Bill, but if external finance is brought in, there is a fundamental question of what the consequences will be on the co-operative. Like previous speakers, I have concerns that the green shares proposed in the Bill might unintentionally create a capital instrument with similar characteristics to a mini-bond.

I am pleased that the Treasury has conducted a review of the currently regulatory arrangements for the issuance and marketing of non-transferable debt securities such as these mini-bonds, and I am pleased that process is ongoing. It is important to consider the outcome of that review before consideration is given to the creation of any capital instrument similar to a mini-bond.

A further consideration—again, this has been touched on previously—is that investors may underestimate the risks that green shares expose them to, because of the ethical ambitions that are rightly attached to the instrument. Ethical investment ambitions are entirely laudable, but they have various aspects that can militate against them. The first is the long lead-in period for investment return, and the second is their sensitivity to changes in the regulatory environment, as we saw with the electricity feed-in tariffs a few years ago.

The hon. Lady may well be right that this is the right vehicle in which to place that ambition for green investments, but from my experience of working in the financial world, I know they are often quite difficult investments. My hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South (Andrew Lewer) mentioned how people who invested in the car industry in 1900 would have lost their money, and one of the key things in the investment world is the difficulty of being the pioneer. Often, not the pioneer but those who come later get the return. I am concerned that the vehicle created would be almost a hybrid co-operative, given the external investment, and whatever we say about the good intentions of a co-operative, at the end of the day investments made through it need to have a return of some description, otherwise it will be a loss-making enterprise.

[Anna McMorrin]

The hon. Member is making some excellent points that need to be examined as the Bill progresses, but this form of legislation is in place in other countries, so we can take the evidence of what has worked, for example, in Australia.

[Simon Baynes]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. I cannot claim to be an expert on the legislation in all the different countries around the world, but I would assume that it operates in different contexts. I am just trying to make a general point, from my own experience of investment options, that they can sometimes be a very complicated way of putting money into the green environment. That is the simple point I make.

The other point I would like to touch on is the exit from the co-operatives. To go back to the precise wording of the Bill, it is also

“to make associated provisions about restricting conversion to company status and the distribution of capital on winding-up”.

I totally understand where the hon. Member for Cardiff North is coming from on demutualisation, and we have all seen examples of demutualisation in the past that have perhaps not turned out as well as everybody expected, but one of the problems in the financial world—at the end of the day, if people are to invest in green shares, it is in a sense a financial investment—is that we have to leave an escape route for people. If something goes wrong—as we saw in the Co-op itself when it had huge financial problems in its lending arm which, I believe, has now been hived off—removing the ability to exit those problems is a very big ask. While the intentions are very admirable, that is not necessarily wise for the long-term health of the co-operative institution.

In the 2020 Budget, the Chancellor announced that the Government would bring forward legislation to allow credit unions—obviously, a form of financial mutual—to offer a wider range of products and services. That will support credit unions to continue to grow sustainably over the longer term and will allow them to continue to play a pivotal role in financial inclusion. This also needs to be taken into consideration in the preparation of this Bill.

I agree with the hon. Member for Cardiff North that locally based financial support is crucial. I became increasingly frustrated during the covid-19 crisis by the performance of the high street banks and the fact that they have vacated the local market for the provision of finance. I am sure that many Members on both sides of the House felt the same way. We have built up a series of contacts in those banks so that we can take our constituents’ concerns to them and say, “Please can you unblock this problem?” The fact that the big high street banks no longer know their customers on the ground in the regions is a major issue. The intention behind the Bill, and indeed behind the credit union proposals, is to fill the gap in the market for locally based co-operative vehicles—rather like those in Germany—that provide finance to local businesses.

I strongly commend the hon. Member for Cardiff North for her excellent speech and for introducing this Bill, but I hope that I have highlighted effectively some of the difficulties that it presents, despite the fact that it was created with the very best of intentions.

Oral Answers to Questions

Simon Baynes Excerpts

Tuesday 24th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman)]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady for the suggestion, and we will certainly look closely at the Child Poverty Action Group’s recommendation.

[Simon Baynes (Clwyd South) (Con)]

T4. On behalf of my constituents in Clwyd South, may I commend the Treasury team for its hard and speedy work over the past couple of weeks? Will my right hon. Friend confirm that this Government will stand behind businesses, small and large, in Clwyd South and elsewhere in Wales and the UK as the crisis progresses?

[Rishi Sunak]

I thank my hon. Friend for his comments and pay tribute to the work that he is doing to represent his constituents and make sure that his local businesses get the support that they need. I hope that his businesses welcome the various interventions that we have provided in terms of cash flow support, tax relief deferrals, and subsidised loans to help them get through this difficult period. If he has further ideas that he thinks we should consider, I would be very happy to talk to him further.