Flooding (Somerset)

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I suggest that the hon. Gentleman goes to look in the mirror and reminds himself that his Government left us borrowing £400,000 a minute. I want publicly to praise all those in the fire services: they have supplied specialist vehicles that have been of great succour to those on the levels, and I really admire the work that they have done around the country. The fire services have been key during this very difficult period—over Christmas, the new year and right through January—and I am very grateful to them for the splendid job that they have done.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

May I commend the Secretary of State for his consultation with local people in Somerset? Following the consultation that he—or the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson)—had with Cornwall’s local authority in Westminster a few weeks ago, is there any way that he can report back to us about rebalancing the Bellwin formula, which disadvantages Cornwall county council?

[Mr Paterson]

I have many responsibilities, but the Bellwin scheme is not one of them. I will, however, make sure that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government heard that point.

Flooding

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Monday 6th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

We have already had the Committee stage of the Water Bill, which comes back to the House immediately after this statement and that would be the appropriate moment to raise these issues. We have said that we have to have a cut-off point, and it was 2009, when the last Government firmed up on the whole idea of building on floodplains. There has to be a firm cut-off point, and the longer this goes on, the bigger the burden will be on other hard-working families who are helping to pay the cross-subsidy.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

My constituency has suffered from two sorts of flooding over this period, and some residents in Calstock and Lower Kelly are almost cut-off because the road collapsed into the river. The council has been really good in working with the local residents, but Cornwall suffers under the Bellwin scheme because a unitary authority was foisted on it by the Labour party, against the wishes of the people of Cornwall. Will my right hon. Friend speak to his colleagues in the Department for Communities and Local Government to see whether something can be done about the disproportionate way in which the Bellwin scheme works against Cornwall?

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend raises an important point, and I am pleased to say that only this morning the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall and the Under-Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, my hon. Friend the Member for Great Yarmouth met the leader and chief executive of Cornwall council to discuss the impact of the Bellwin scheme on Cornwall.

Water Bill

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Monday 6th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Miss McIntosh]

Indeed, that is a different argument.

I shall give our reasons for new clause 4 in a moment. Abstraction reform forms the basis of new clause 5, in which we would return to what was in the White Paper, where the Government waxed lyrical on abstraction regimes. We particularly call for the abstraction regime to be introduced no later than the end of the period of seven years beginning on the date on which the Bill is passed and comes into legal effect.

Amendments 2 and 3 would insert into clause 21 the relevant language of “undertakers” and “highways authorities”. I am attracted to amendment 1, tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood (Mr Spencer), and look forward to his speaking to it in due course. Amendments 5, 6, 7 and 8 would include small businesses in the flood reinsurance scheme, for reasons that I shall give in a moment.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the Flood Re clauses will help the people whom the Minister and I met in Looe last Saturday who were unable to get insurance because of repeated flooding? Flood Re will give them the opportunity to obtain realistically priced insurance.

[Miss McIntosh]

Our thoughts are obviously with my hon. Friend’s constituents who were sadly inundated during the recent flooding. I look forward to hearing further from her during the debate, as well as the Minister’s response.

Amendments 10 and 11 are consequential amendments to clause 80 arising from new clauses 4 and 5.

Before I explain why the amendments and new clauses are important, I should point out that we have seen three types of flooding in the past three or four months. The most recent examples have been of coastal flooding, but the Yorkshire and East Anglia coasts suffered tidal surges before Christmas to devastating effect; more than 80 houses were evacuated at Filey in my constituency and a number more in Whitby. However, we have become more accustomed to surface water and river flooding, and surface water flooding has been on the increase, and has become more of a problem, since 2007.

I want to hear from the Minister why SUDS have been delayed. The latest we heard was that there was an implementation date of April 2014. People have been trying to convince me that Brawby in my constituency suffered in 2013 not from flooding but due to surface water running off from fields and roads into the combined sewerage pipe, which then spilled water from the sewerage system back on to the road. In that case, the water did not go into anyone’s house, but at Castlegate in Malton when exactly the same thing happened—water ran off the road into the combined sewers—water then entered a house.

The missing link is an audit of existing SUDS and an examination of future SUDS when major developments and roads are built. However, from my experience, and given what we heard during the statement on the floods, there is a further problem to deal with. If water runs off a highway, it is the responsibility of the county council, the unitary council or the Highways Agency itself. However, if that water then runs into the combined pipes, it suddenly becomes the water company’s problem, although what has happened is not its fault. I hope that that unacceptable situation can be addressed through the measures that I and other members of the EFRA Committee have tabled, or through amendment 1, which was tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Sherwood. If fields are saturated, as is the case at present—it was the situation in my constituency between September 2012 and March 2013—highways authorities must take responsibility and create a SUD to take the excess water. I accept that such a process would involve cost, but I applaud the Government’s approach on partnership funding, so we could look to public sector partners, or be more imaginative by looking for private sector partners, such as local businesses that might be interested in investing. However, we cannot allow a situation to continue in which surface water running off a road becomes the responsibility of a water company and thus forces it to take preventive measures, given that the highways authority—whichever one it might be—should accept responsibility for it.

The EFRA Committee’s report following our pre-legislative scrutiny of the draft Bill highlighted concern about the delayed implementation of the provisions on sustainable drainage systems in the Flood and Water Management Act 2010—it is now four years since that Act was passed. The Committee also criticised a lack of urgency on improving the management of surface water in its report on the water White Paper, so I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will be able to clarify what has been happening and why the process seems to be so complicated. As the Committee has not been convinced that the Department’s work to improve the management of surface water has involved the urgency that constituents throughout the country would expect, new clause 4 would require the Government to implement the relevant provisions of the 2010 Act within a month of the Bill being passed.

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[Miss McIntosh]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, but I believe that homes generally are covered. Our Government have persisted with his Government’s arbitrary choice of 2009 as the relevant year, although this is a new Bill and we have a still relatively new coalition Government. I was very taken by what the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) said in a previous debate about 2009 having been plucked from the air as an arbitrary date, and many people will not realise that homes built after 2009 on a floodplain are simply not covered by insurance. One of the purposes of tonight’s debate is to entice the Government to seek a different year—it could be 2013 or 2015, but let us be imaginative.

[Sheryll Murray]

Will my hon. Friend clarify the difference between an insurance policy that covers a business premises and one that covers a private home? Insurers, and the Association of British Insurers, would probably find it difficult to distinguish if we were to include small businesses, but because her amendment is well intentioned, I am sure that she will be able to clarify her differentiation.

[Miss McIntosh]

I am sure that the Minister will be well aware of the point that my hon. Friend is trying to make. There is great concern among the farming community that farms may be excluded whereas the farm house may be included. I commend my hon. Friend’s knowledge, because she worked in the insurance industry for a time. We need to know whether farms and people working from their own homes are going to be included, and what the position will be for small businesses, because this could put them out of business in some of the areas that we have seen flooded over the past two years in repeat flooding incidents. It has also been brought to my attention, although, unfortunately, too late to have tabled an amendment, that there is concern that blocks of flats—leasehold flats—may be excluded from this arrangement. That may be news to the Minister as well, but before Third Reading he might like to ponder whether such blocks will be excluded.

Our amendments to clause 51 address concerns relating to the exclusion of small companies such as charities and, as I have mentioned, farms under the new Flood Re proposals in the Bill. Any business based in a property that is primarily a residential one, and on which the occupier therefore pays council tax, would fall within the Flood Re scheme. Any business based in premises used primarily for business will not be covered. It is extremely important that we understand these issues. For the first time that I can remember, under the Flood Re scheme, once it is up and running, the Government will be added as an insurer of last resort if in the three years before the fund has built up we suffer an exceptional one-in-a-thousand-year incident.

In the Public Bill Committee, the ABI stated that Flood Re is not the solution for small businesses and that there is not a sufficient evidence basis for providing insurance cover for small businesses. The Federation of Small Businesses is concerned that small businesses that have affordability problems will not be covered, other than in respect of the insurance premiums or excess that they might seek to defray. Although they do not pay council tax, they do pay business rates and therefore could be rated in a similar way to household customers under Flood Re. There remain a lot of known unknowns with Flood Re as to why a council band rate has been chosen and which particular band rate has been opted for, but that is a separate debate. If there is a lack of evidence, further investigations and monitoring should be conducted with regard to small businesses and how they might cope with sourcing flood insurance in the free market.

Our amendments to clause 53 would have the effect of ensuring that insurance companies cover for any liability in excess of a one-in-200-year loss. Our amendments seek greater clarification of the Government’s role in this scenario of a one-in-200-year loss, and, in particular, how the taxpayer would be protected. As I have mentioned, the Government will, for the first time, be the insurer of last resort. In later years, after the fund has built up, I do not believe that that will be a problem, but we are seeking the Minister’s reassurance about what the implications will be in respect of the first three years. In Committee, the Minister confirmed that there is no Government liability for Flood Re and that the Government have made it clear that Flood Re is not guaranteed above the one-in-200-year level, so he might just like to revisit that and clarify the point.

Our amendment 8 would put the Government’s commitment in the Bill and create certainty for all concerned as to who will assume the additional liability. A one-in-200-year loss scenario would be the total value of claims from households reinsured through Flood Re that, during the course of a year, actuaries would not expect to be exceeded in 99.5% of years. Expressed in a different way, that would mean that the actuaries would be 99.5% confident that the limit would not be exceeded in any one year. It is important to note that that is not the same as a one-in-200-year flood event; the ABI has estimated that this would mean flooding six times worse than that experienced in 2007. Obviously, neither the Minister nor the insurance industry will yet be able to say what the cost of the recent floods has been, but I hope that he will see fit to lend his support to our amendments, and I commend them to the House.

Fishing Industry

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I apologise for the fact that I shall not be present for the wind-ups owing to commitments relating to other Government business. It is a real pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), and I should like to thank fellow members of the all-party parliamentary fisheries group for joining me and helping to secure today’s debate through the Backbench Business Committee. I should like to welcome my Cornish neighbour, the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), to his first annual fisheries debate as the Minister responsible for this industry, which is very close to my heart, as the House knows. I pay special tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) and thank him on behalf of the industry for representing it so well over recent years as a shadow Minister and a Minister.

As is traditional, I should like to thank members of all the seafarers charities who provide so much support for our fishermen. In particular, I should like to mention the Fishermen’s Mission and to single out one very special person who has volunteered for the charity over the past few years. He is Ian Murray, the brother of my late husband. I should also like to offer my condolences to all the bereaved families of fishermen and to make a special mention of the Fishwives Choir, which consists of fishermen’s widows who came together to record the song “When the boat comes in/Eternal father”. Hon. Members can download the song from the Fishermen’s Mission website; it would make an excellent Christmas present.

After years of being virtually ignored by the last Government, the fishing industry now has a Government who represent its interests. I want to look at a couple of the things that were achieved during the common fisheries policy negotiations. The discard ban has been a long time coming. I remember protesting in Plymouth city centre many years ago, along with fishermen who were discarding their over-quota plaice in the middle of the road to demonstrate that wasteful practice to the public. The Minister must ensure that this move is accompanied not only by the available quota, which many Members have called for, but by all the available technical measures to allow the small fish to escape before capture. Neil and other Looe fishermen inserted square mesh panels in their trawls many years ago to try to ensure that only marketable-sized fish reached their decks. Looe was a leading port in that initiative.

The Minister must also ensure that in mixed fisheries, particularly in Cornwall, the correct quota balance is available to allow fishermen to earn a consistent living. Many fishermen only have small boats, and do not have the luxury of large modern vessels like the Lunar Bow. I joined the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan and many others on a visit to that ship a couple of years ago. It can earn a living by going to sea for just six to eight weeks a year. Most British fishermen do not have that luxury.

I want to turn now to decentralised decision making, and allowing member states to agree locally the measures appropriate to their fisheries. That is a first-class proposal. As Bertie Armstrong of the Scottish Fishermen’s Federation mentioned in his briefing, this has not been put in place before because of a systemic defect—namely, the fact that “exclusive competence” for preservation of marine biological resource rests with the EU. Without a treaty change, it is not possible to devolve that responsibility, which we all believe involves control.

Finally, I would like to move on to the six to 12-mile limit derogation. My fellow Cornish coalition partner, my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George), has mentioned the fact that the derogation was due to end on 1 January 2013. I raised this matter last year, and I am raising it again today. This matter is still up for negotiation as a result of the extension put in place by the European Commission. Had there been no extension, there could have been a repetition of the Kent Kirk incident.

Let me explain to hon. Members what that incident involved. Kent Kirk is a Danish Member of the European Parliament. Before that, when he was the Danish fisheries Minister, he shot his nets within the British 12-mile limit during the 13 days when that limit was not in place, between 1 January 1983 and the date later in January when the agreement came into force. He went to the European Court of Justice because the British authorities excluded him from those waters, and the Court ruled that the waters within our 12-mile limit were in fact EU waters.

I call on our Minister—as I did last year—to negotiate the six to 12-mile limits in the spirit of the original London convention agreement of 1969. According to the spirit of the agreement, access to the 12-mile limit for other nationals with historical rights was always intended to be temporary. Forty years on, we need to see an end to other nations’ access, because those vessels are probably no longer fishing. That six to 12-mile limit should now be exclusively for British fishermen.

Finally, I would like to put it on record that when my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister enters into the next renegotiation of powers to be returned to the sovereignty of this House, the restoration of national control over our 200-mile/median line limit, as described in the Fishery Limits Act 1976, should be at the top of his list. I am pleased that, over the years, this proposal has also had the support of Labour Members. Although he is not present today, I would like to applaud the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell), who has been campaigning for that change for longer than I have—and I have been doing so for almost 30 years.

I would like to remind my hon. Friend the Minister that fishermen all over the country, especially in Cornwall and Devon, have been listening to the words of our coalition colleagues who have tried to dress up regionalisation as national control for far too long. That argument simply does not wash any longer. Nothing short of the Conservative manifesto commitment of 2005 is acceptable to me or to the industry that I love so much. It is time for action. In the short term, we need exclusivity for British fishermen over our territorial waters out to 12 miles. In the long term, we need national control over our 200-mile/median line limit.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Water Bill

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Monday 25th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Maria Eagle]

The right hon. Lady is correct. I was about to mention WaterSure in my next breath, if she had waited a moment.

WaterSure was introduced by Labour as a targeted payment to households with three or more children or to households that demand a high use of water owing to a medical condition, yet only a third of eligible households access the scheme. Ministers should set a target and work with the water industry to ensure it is achieved, and use existing data on benefits to ensure that everyone eligible is on the lowest tariff. It is essential that the cost to households of non-payment, by others who can afford to pay—

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Maria Eagle]

I will give way to the hon. Lady in a moment.

It is essential that the cost to households of non-payment by others, who can afford to pay but who choose not to, is finally tackled. Failing to address this matter is unacceptable when it adds £15 to the average bill and households are struggling with rising bills. It is time to require landlords to provide tenants’ details to water companies, something the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, chaired by the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), has demanded.

[Sheryll Murray]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Maria Eagle]

No.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs should implement the provisions in the Flood and Water Management Act 2010 on bad debt without further delay.

On the financial practices of water companies, I urge the Secretary of State to press his right hon. Friend the Chancellor to use the autumn statement next week to set out measures to crack down on the tax avoidance that we know goes on in the water industry. We cannot have a situation where water companies are taking strategic decisions with the clear purpose of structuring their financial affairs in a way that leads to worrying—

[Sheryll Murray]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The Secretary of State was generous with his time. I cannot understand why the shadow Secretary of State is not being as generous.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. That is not a point of order; it is a point of debate. The hon. Lady knows full well that it is up to the person speaking to decide whether they will give way. There have been interventions. We will have to wait and see if there will be any more.

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[Stephen Gilbert]

And the hon. Gentleman will know that the coalition Government acted to take £50 off bills in the south-west, which has made a real difference to affordability for my constituents and others who have suffered for a very long time.

[Sheryll Murray]

Will my hon. Friend confirm that his party, which represented all six seats in Cornwall under the previous Government, fought for a long time to get something done about increased water bills and that it took the Conservative-led coalition to do something about it?

[Stephen Gilbert]

As with everything my hon. Friend says, her question was good in part—the first part was very good, but on the second part I am afraid I must disagree. The Liberal Democrats in Cornwall have certainly fought for many decades to redress the unfair water bills that my constituents and others in Cornwall suffer, and thanks to both parties coming together we were able to do that.

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[Alison Seabeck (Plymouth, Moor View) (Lab)]

This is one of those occasions when there are Members with enormous experience of the subject under discussion sitting on both sides of the House. As a result, the discussion we are having is extremely useful. I draw attention to the contributions from the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), who said that he has scars on his back from this, which I quite understand, and the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh)—she is no longer in her place—who has contributed significantly over the years, and it is years, to bringing forward the Bill.

It is ironic that we are surrounded by water in this country—certainly in the south-west, which has some of the highest levels of rainfall, because of the prevailing winds—yet we are in need of additional powers to protect us against drought. Such measures are important, so there is a lot of sympathy with the general thrust of the Bill, but the issue is with the detail and with what is not there. I was concerned to hear the Secretary of State say that he hoped to bring forward—not that he would do so for certain—the clauses to Committee. It would be helpful if the Minister, when winding up the debate, confirmed whether all the clauses specific to the insurance elements, and any other key elements, will be dealt with by a Commons Committee and not left to a Committee in the House of Lords.

Flood insurance is desperately needed to protect domestic properties. A number of Members have seen their constituents flooded regularly, or indeed have been flooded themselves. In Plymouth we are relatively fortunate, but we have small areas that flood regularly. Our biggest problem is the railway, which is regularly cut off. The organisations involved seem incapable of coming up with a solution that does anything other than cut off the far south-west every time there is flooding at Exeter, which is desperately bad news for business. I am not sure how the insurance companies view claims for loss of business, but without doubt there is a loss of business. That is a separate issue, but it is very specific to our region.

Another point that concerns me is that so much of this is being done by order and by statutory instruments—that is, secondary legislation. Indeed, the EFRA Committee, which has done sterling work in this area, felt that the draft Bill relied heavily on secondary legislation in a number of key areas. The Government have obviously not listened with regard to this aspect of the Bill. I am absolutely confident that in Committee my Front-Bench colleagues will press for some of those key issues to be firmly and clearly included in the Bill.

The Bill seeks to extend competition, which most people would say is a worthy aim, but not to extend it to domestic bill payers—a point well made by the hon. Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert). That is another missed opportunity. The Government are failing yet again to get a grip on the things that could make a significant difference to the cost of living that all my constituents are facing. Despite the welcome £50 rebate, the south-west still has some of the highest water bills in the country. The amount paid by people on relatively low incomes is extremely high, and about 200,000 households are described as being under water stress.

[Sheryll Murray]

Can the hon. Lady tell us exactly what her Government did, in the 12 years when they had the chance, to help the hard-pressed, hard-working people of the south-west with their water bills?

[Alison Seabeck]

Their first review cut water bills, even in the south-west, and then, admittedly, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle) explained, there was a constant battle and a need to bring something forward. I fully accept that it was a slow process. I personally went to see the Chancellor of the Exchequer to make exactly that point—to say that we needed, frankly, to get our fingers out and do something about bill payers in the south-west. I do not think that anybody argued that as vehemently as I and Linda Gilroy, my colleague in Plymouth, Sutton at the time. Even the hon. Lady, in all fairness, will be aware of the work that went on.

In the south-west we have a high percentage of people, including pensioners and families, with high and essential water needs. In fact, there are more than in any other English area, and some of them are being supported through the WaterSure scheme.

South West Water bill payers are the victims of a botched privatisation process. We have too large an area, with a massive need for capital investment, including cleaning up our shoreline, and very few bill payers to meet those costs. It is a dreadful situation, and one that was not thought through but driven through purely for ideological reasons. This Bill develops the market in water further, with a new retail market. The proposed changes are interesting, but they are not embraced entirely by the water companies, which are asking questions about the need for a provision to allow for retail exits, about why the system is voluntary, and about whether there will be a level playing field for all retailers.

South West Water has expressed concerns about the Government’s ill-considered and risky-to-implement proposals on the relaxation of the selling of licences without reforming abstraction methods, and says that it can foresee problems for rivers. During this debate, people have been tweeting me about the importance of the chalk streams. Indeed, several hon. Members on both sides of the House have touched on that point. The Secretary of State talked about new sources of water. However, if my local water company is saying that it has concerns, I have to be concerned. Equally, if the general public and Members of this House have concerns, the Minister must respond to them when he winds up.

Water companies across the UK, many of them based overseas, are making significant and increasing profits, with soaring dividends for shareholders. I am sure that they would say that the picture of their accounts is much more complicated than that which appears in the headlines, and that, in some cases, they hold significant debts, but that just means we need greater transparency so that we can fully understand where the pressures exist. The new chair of Ofwat has suggested that some of the financial arrangements that these companies pursue are complex, or perhaps they could be otherwise described as hidden, and that they are running a debt in order to minimise tax payments in the UK, but—surprise, surprise—they are still managing to pay out huge dividends. As we have heard, they have announced £1.9 billion in pre-tax profits and given £1.8 billion back to the shareholders. This is a system for the few, not the many. People in Plymouth have been paying through the nose for a basic commodity while shareholders seem to be benefiting. No one denies that shareholders are people who have backed a company for a decent return, but we need to understand that it is a decent return and not an excessive one.

Water is a commodity that needs to be valued because it will potentially become even more scarce as climate change kicks in further. If we do not prepare well for the decades and century ahead, we could be left with water in short supply or prices rising further for the taxpayer. At a time of soaring utility bills, high inflation and stagnant wages, water customers really do need to feel that they are getting a fair deal from their supplier. South West Water has invested in new technology in Plymouth—I recently saw it for myself at its treatment works in my constituency—and there are, at last, some improvements to the local sewage works, but it needs to offset that capital expenditure and the benefits to customers against its profit and dividend levels.

The Bill does not put in place measures that achieve transparency or affordability. The notion of a national scheme to assist with affordability, which has been discussed over very many years, and in depth by the Walker review, needs to be implemented. This Bill could have been the vehicle to do that—another wasted opportunity. Some companies are doing some of the work on a voluntary basis, including, in all fairness, South West Water, but it makes much more sense to bring them all together into some sort of national scheme—to get them all signed up and have a level playing field where good companies feel that everybody else is pulling their weight.

My hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey and the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton raised a very important point about access to data, particularly in relation to the Department for Work and Pensions. I urge the Minister to do all he can to press the DWP to sort itself out on this one; it is almost a no-brainer.

My constituents find it impossible to understand why the regulator seems to have no teeth and simply rubber-stamps increases in bills. I am sure that the Minister will say that is not the case, but that is how it is viewed by my constituents. We know that the regulator has to perform a complex balancing act, with requests for increases from companies because they need to develop major schemes such as new ring sewers, new reservoirs, and so on, but my constituents are not convinced that anybody is listening to them. No one would argue against the vital work on infrastructure, protection against flooding and drought plans, which the Bill champions, but what is missing is the fairness agenda. The Government fail to understand that if my constituents feel they are being unfairly penalised while shareholders, perhaps overseas, are benefiting, this legislation will have failed and this Government will have failed them.

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[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I welcome the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) to the Front Bench, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), who led on the Bill from the beginning.

We often take water for granted. Not everyone in the world is so lucky. Indeed, I have walked, with some of my staff, along the beautiful coastal path between Looe and Polperro to raise money for WaterAid.

I have done in-depth research into the job that South West Water does in my constituency. I thank Chris Loughlin and his staff for taking the time to show me around Restormel treatment works, which is the biggest treatment works in Cornwall—it does not supply my constituency, but it is based there—and the Torpoint waste water treatment works. I now understand more about what happens to the water that falls out of the sky. During these visits, at either end of my constituency, I was fascinated by the work undertaken and have a much better understanding of the level of investment being carried out to ensure that our water is clean and our waste water properly treated. That investment does not come cheap, of course. While water bills in South East Cornwall and the far south-west reflect that investment, they have been unusually high for a number of years. I again thank my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury for showing a clear understanding of the matter, and the Chancellor for the contribution of £50 to each household towards that higher than average cost in Cornwall.

I want to highlight two concerns. First, we should not put in place legislation that will further increase the cost of our water. It is imperative that we monitor water quality without putting an expensive burden of regulation on our water companies. I am thinking in particular about our beaches and coastal water. We must remember that the south-west is a tourist area, and it is vital that local hard-working families do not have to pick up the cost burden of further European legislation. We must not become the Government of red tape. The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and other Departments have done much to reduce the burden on industry following the mess left by the previous Labour Administration.

Secondly, any legislation must allow water companies to be able to react quickly to circumstance. We do not need legislation that says that everyone must be consulted in triplicate. There is no point in putting sandbags out once a town has been flooded. When the need arises, water companies must be able to do what is necessary to save lives, homes and businesses. Tragically, my constituency has been hit more than most by the weather and by flooding—it is a key problem. I thank the former Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), and my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury for visiting it on a number of occasions to see the situation on the ground for themselves.

[Mr Charles Walker]

My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. Is it not the case that if homeowners cannot get insurance their homes become, in essence, worthless, because nobody will give them a mortgage on them?

[Sheryll Murray]

Many of my constituents who live in the areas affected by flooding have a particular problem getting insurance. I speak as someone who, many years ago, worked in the insurance industry and dealt with domestic insurance. One constituent was told that she could get insurance after 10 flood-free years, and was flooded after nine-and-a-half years. My constituents cannot afford to pay repair costs every time it floods. Will the Minister consider ways to mitigate the causes of flooding and to help people to get the insurance they desperately need? Some of my constituents have been caught in a flooding trap: they cannot get insurance to be able to recover from floods and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) said, they cannot sell their home at a reasonable rate because the flooding has caused a type of blight.

South East Cornwall is not rich. Wages are frequently below average, with many people relying on seasonal tourist work. The Bill must not place an extra burden on them. It is not just the Opposition’s constituents who are hard pressed. The Opposition must accept that they need to look at solutions, rather than sitting and sniping from the sidelines about increasing bills, and making cheap political points.

[Mr Walker]

I thank my hon. Friend for her tireless campaigning on this subject. She has worked with Members across the House to bring this important matter to the attention of the Government and she deserves to be thanked for it.

[Sheryll Murray]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s comments.

I ask the Minister to look at South East Cornwall as an example. As my neighbour, he knows my constituency well. I am happy to meet him to discuss the many individual stories I have heard about flood insurance, if that would be helpful.

--- Later in debate ---

[Thomas Docherty]

I will come on to that point in just one moment. As my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields mentioned, the latest figures show that more than 80,000 households have sought advice from citizens advice bureaux about water bill debts in the past year, which is almost exactly the same as the figure for how many sought help because they could not pay their energy bills.

The hon. Gentleman asks what the previous Government did. As we have heard today, we took decisive action to help families. We were the only Government to have forced a real-terms cut in a price review. He joined the House in 2005, which is interesting because it was the previous price review in which there was a real-term cut. The previous Government introduced WaterSure—the first social tariff scheme.

[Sheryll Murray]

Will the hon. Gentleman enlighten us on his proposals? We have heard an awful lot about the problems but not much about his or his party’s solution.

[Thomas Docherty]

If the hon. Lady shows a bit of patience, she might hear more detail from us than we heard today from the Secretary of State.

The previous Labour Government passed legislation that allowed the water companies to introduce their own schemes. Those companies had assured the country that they were keen to do so, yet almost four years after that legislation was passed, how many of them have kept their promises? How many water companies have developed a scheme within their region? How many of those fat-cat boards have put even a fraction of their obscene profits into the pockets of the hardest hit households? Just three out of 20 of the most successful and profitable companies in the country have lifted a finger to help their customers. It is no wonder that the most charitable description of the system, as offered by Citizens Advice, is “ad hoc”.

What did we hear from the Secretary of State today? What was his response to corporate failure and what was his proposal to help customers? He has written a second letter to his friends, the water bosses, not to demand real action but to make a helpful suggestion. He does not believe in Government intervention. No matter how much the market fails and the companies drag their feet and how many customers cannot afford the inflation-busting prices, this is a Government who do not believe that they should act. We on the Labour Benches do not share that belief. We believe that when fat-cat bosses will not act, the Government must.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) said, we will introduce a national affordability scheme. I welcome the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Alison Seabeck), who has been a constant champion of hard-pressed customers in the south-west region. Along with other Members, she raised the subject of flooding and flood insurance, which is an important issue. We share the concerns of many Members from across the House about both flood defences and how households can secure affordable insurance. The latest figures from the Environment Agency put the cost of damage to property in the past year at £277 million, almost £200 million of which was household damage.

We heard an excellent speech from the Chair of the Environmental Audit Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley), who highlighted the problem eloquently. The Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh), highlighted the important and often overlooked issue of surface water run-off. The Opposition welcome the principle behind the proposed new scheme, Flood Re, but like the Select Committee we have serious and legitimate concerns about the fact that the Bill contains only one clause on that matter.

My hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) spoke from the heart about the problem of flooding. I am sure that the House would acknowledge that she has been a champion for her city, and I hope the Minister will provide real answers to the important issues that she raised.

I understand that Ministers are hastily drafting new clauses even now, but they must be adequately scrutinised. The issue has been raised by Members on both sides of the House, so will the Minister give a firm undertaking that the new clauses will be tabled in time to be reviewed adequately in Committee? Will he assure the House that such crucial amendments will not be rushed out at the last minute without due scrutiny?

We also heard from Members on both sides of the House about the tax paid by the water companies. As my hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State has already said, it is simply unacceptable for water companies to make £1.9 billion in pre-tax profits and pay out £1.8 billion to shareholders. That is why we need to give the regulator broader powers to step in to protect customers and to ensure that fat-cat companies play by the same rules as other businesses. We want to ensure that excess profits, rather than heading to shareholders’ pockets, are used responsibly to reduce bills and improve infrastructure such as the Thames tunnel.

The hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) mentioned abstraction. Not for the first time, he raised his concerns about the damage to chalk streams and asked whether I would set out our party’s position on the environmental impact issue. I am always keen to oblige him, so let me set out clearly our view of the crucial need for environmental mitigation. Even when the Government have tried to introduce reform, they have failed to follow through. As the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee has warned repeatedly, a half-baked proposal to introduce upstream competition without proper abstract reform is worse than the status quo. As the WWF warned today,

“The licence system is completely broken, unsustainable and out of date”.

Why have the Government ended up in that mess? As in so many other cases where the Government have decided that something is difficult, tricky or requires them to act, they have just pushed this off. It should be no surprise that the Secretary of State ideologically opposes any Government action, but I wonder why the Minister responsible for water, the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson), has simply gone along with his boss’s laissez-faire attitude to our natural environment. Simply to promise, as Ministers apparently have, that the Department will do something in the next Parliament shows a lack of credibility.

Let me be clear: if Ministers have found thinking of solutions too hard, they should postpone all upstream reform until we have Ministers and officials who will stand up to the vested interests who are damaging our rivers.

Oral Answers to Questions

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Thursday 21st November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (George Eustice)]

We have made it clear that there will be two further tranches. I can confirm that next year, we will begin the research work necessary to start identifying some of the next sites. We will launch the formal consultation for the next tranche at the beginning of 2015, but that does not mean we will not be doing work in the meantime.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

Fishermen in my constituency are periodically economically reliant on dredging around the Eddystone reef. Will my hon. Friend consider issuing permits that would expire after retirement or sale of vessel to allow them to continue to earn a living?

[George Eustice]

One of the principles of the marine conservation zones is that we want to development management measures locally with the inshore fisheries and conservation authorities, the Marine Management Organisation and harbour authorities. We want them to be constructive and, given how technology is developing, it is possible still to fish sustainably, in a way that protects many of the features we are trying to protect through these designations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

We are working very closely with the Association of British Insurers on the new scheme, which will replace the statement of principles, and we are looking in detail at a range of different options. We do not propose to extend the scheme to post-2009 properties.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

Local people have for many years expressed concern about the Whitsand bay dump site. They have identified an alternative site; will the Secretary of State meet me to discuss the reclassification of that alternative site?

Oral Answers to Questions

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

I have huge sympathy for the people of Smethwick, but this matter is nothing to do with floods or flood insurance. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that we are taking the question of Chinese lanterns very seriously indeed.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

People in my constituency who have been flooded will welcome the news about flood insurance and the extension of the £50 off their water bills. Does he agree that that shows a commitment to the people of the south-west that was never shown by the previous Government?

[Richard Benyon]

I agree entirely. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out that we have addressed an intrinsic, long-term unfairness for people in the south-west. We have proved that we are doing that not just for today, but for the long term.

Common Fisheries Policy

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Monday 17th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Richard Benyon]

Things will improve on the wider scale because the commitment to maximum sustainable yield, fishing sustainably and more sensible management will lead to increased biomass in the sea, so there will be more fish for the small-scale fishing fleet to catch. However, the one thing I find as I go round the coast—the hon. Gentleman will know about this from when he was the shadow spokesman—is how remote the decision-making process is. I have sat up in the small hours of the morning discussing mesh sizes for fishing nets that will be used off the north-west coast of Scotland, 1,000 miles from where I was sitting. I am not an expert and nor was the Commission official who was having the discussion with me, but the fishermen who fish there are. They will now be part of that decision-making process. They will be able to drive those technical details in an effective way, not one that is so remote from how they fish.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

With your permission, Mr Speaker, may I offer my condolences to the family of the skipper of the Sarah Jane, in view of the fact that the marine accident investigation branch report into the accident in which he lost his life was published last Thursday? I know exactly how they feel.

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the deal he has secured. On 30 May, Greenpeace issued a press release that said:

“An eleventh-hour compromise over new EU fishing laws reached early this morning by top decision-makers…could usher in a major shake-up in the way UK fishing quota is allocated, throwing a lifeline to thousands of small-scale British fishermen whose livelihoods are hanging by a thread.”

Will he confirm that that is correct, and will he expand on that statement please?

[Richard Benyon]

There is a commitment at EU level that we must protect small-scale fishermen. I entirely agree with that, because there is a social dimension to the policy that must never be forgotten. Part of the trio of awfulness of the common fisheries policy is that we not only have fewer fish and fewer fishermen, but damaged coastal communities, right through to the land-based jobs of those who support those industries, so I absolutely agree. However, national and devolved Governments have a responsibility to manage fishing opportunities to ensure that we recognise the social dimension and do what we seek to do, which is to transfer unused quota in particular from certain sectors to the inshore fisheries sector. We accept that the inshore fisheries sector is engaged in sustainable management of our fisheries, so we want to see more of that, as well as enhanced social conditions in coastal communities.

Badger Cull

Sheryll Murray Excerpts

Wednesday 5th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mary Creagh]

Twenty Members wish to speak, so I want to make some progress.

If it is not the most effective way of stopping TB, why is the cull going ahead? There is a very simple answer: it is a simple solution to a complex problem. The alternatives—stricter controls on cattle, faster and more TB testing, and more restrictions on cattle movements—promise yet more hardship and expense for hard-pressed farmers, and for the Government. The Government believe that vaccinating badgers—the approach taken by my colleagues in the Welsh Assembly Government—is too expensive, but owing to the high cost of policing the expected protests against the shoots, the expense of the cull now exceeds that of vaccination.

The UK’s top badger expert. Professor Rosie Woodroffe, has analysed the numbers. The Government estimate that badger vaccination would cost £2,250 and that the cull will cost £1,000 per square kilometre per year, so at first sight the cull is cheaper than vaccinating. However, when the Government’s estimate of the cost of policing the cull—£1,429 per square kilometre per year—is added, vaccination becomes the cheaper option. What a pity for farmers that DEFRA Ministers cancelled five of Labour’s six badger vaccination trials. Early results from the remaining site near Stroud show a 79% reduction in TB transmission to unvaccinated badger cubs, which means that they are almost certainly less infectious to cattle and to other badgers. Two or three years of vaccination would give badgers full immunity as the old badgers died off.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

The hon. Lady has given us a tremendous number of statistics, for which I am grateful. Will she now tell us how many farmers she has consulted, and will she give us a few statistics relating to the number of cattle that have already been destroyed?

[Mary Creagh]

I am in touch with farmers all the time, and I have had a meeting with the National Farmers Union. I have met farmers in Derbyshire and, indeed, all over the country.

The wildlife trusts, the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds and the National Trust are all vaccinating badgers on their land. The Zoological Society of London and the wildlife trusts are pushing for volunteer involvement in badger vaccination, which would greatly reduce the costs. According to a report published today by the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, for which I pay tribute to the Committee and its Chair, the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh):

“The vaccine has been available for 3 years but the government should now produce a clear strategy for using it.”

That is a pretty damning indictment of what the Government have been doing for the past three years. As a result of Labour’s investment, we now have a cattle TB vaccine and a DIVA test to differentiate infected and vaccinated cows.

The Select Committee report is critical of the Government’s approach to cattle vaccination. It says that the debate on cattle vaccination is unclear, and that

“the government must accept a great deal of the blame for this”.

It says:

“The quality and accuracy of the information that Defra has put into the public domain has been insufficient and inadequate.”

The Government have delayed field trials of the cattle vaccine after misinterpreting EU rules, and they must now undertake those trials as soon as possible.

I must make it clear, however, that neither a vaccine for badgers nor a vaccine for cattle will work on its own. We need a coherent policy framework to tackle all aspects of this complex disease. The Independent Scientific Group has suggested several key principles that could form the basis of such a framework. Page 175 of its report states that

“the movement of TB infected cattle...poses the greatest threat to the disease security of uninfected farms and particularly so in the case of farms in low disease risk areas”.

According to the report, cattle movements

“are also likely to make a significant contribution to the local spread of infection in high risk areas.”

Page after page of the report lists different control strategies for low-risk and high-risk areas, some of which were implemented by the last Government and some of which are now being adopted by the present Government.

We welcome, for instance, the risk-based trading strategy on which the Government have embarked. There must be transparency in the marketplace to prevent farmers from unknowingly importing infected cows into their herds. However, the Government have not investigated, for example, the 40% of farms in high-risk areas in the south-west that have consistently avoided bovine TB. What are those farmers doing to protect their farms? How are they trading, what is their biosecurity, and what are their husbandry practices? Can they be replicated? What can we learn? Until we get to the bottom of that, we will not find a solution.

--- Later in debate ---

[Bill Wiggin (North Herefordshire) (Con)]

An effective Opposition would debate early-day motion 189.

I must draw to the attention of the House the fact that I keep pedigree Hereford cows. I test them annually and I have 13 of them. Without getting misty-eyed, they all have names and I am as fond of them as any person is of their pets. I want to protect them from disease, so I vaccinate them against every illness that I am allowed to vaccinate against, and would vaccinate against TB if it were legal. I follow the movement restrictions and I try to do all I can to prevent my cattle from being exposed to TB. I do not believe that that makes me any different from any of my constituents who farm.

I also care about other animals, and I remember the excitement I felt the first time I saw a wild badger. These are magical creatures of the dusk and I want to make it clear that I want the highest standard of care for the badger, just as I do for my own animals. Many of my kind-hearted, caring constituents have written to me asking me to vote against the cull, but I fear that that would cover only half of this enormous and unpleasant decision, the other half being the need to put diseased badgers out of their misery.

When Labour was in office, I was asked by a constituent to table a parliamentary question on advice on how to put down humanely an injured badger found on the side of the road. I was told that people should consult a solicitor before taking any action to put the badger out of pain. I do not believe that we should stand by when badgers are dying in agony.

[Sheryll Murray]

Has my hon. Friend heard that bovine TB has spread to domestic animals such as cats and dogs?

[Bill Wiggin]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right: TB is found in hedgehogs, cats and dogs, and even sheep. It affects people, usually only those who drink unpasteurised milk. The disease can reach any species, because M. bovis is a species-jumping illness.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

I want to speak not only because this is an issue that I feel strongly about, but because it is a matter of great importance to the livelihoods of the vast number of farming communities in South East Cornwall. I will try to be brief. It is very disappointing to see the Opposition Benches so empty, given that this is an Opposition day debate.

Needless to say, my communities rely heavily on farming and tourism. It is not only cattle that have been affected by bovine TB. A constituent of mine, Senara Collings, has a herd of alpacas that she farms on her farm, which is also a tourism establishment. My hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) joined me at her farm, where we met many local alpaca owners. Senara suffers from the same restrictions that apply to dairy farmers and has suffered considerable distress. In particular, she saw her alpacas destroyed only to find at post mortem that they showed no signs of BTB.

Members who question the necessity of the pilots should speak to another constituent of mine, Dave Worley, who wrote to me saying that he has the unenviable task of dealing with the effects of TB on a daily basis; that, alongside the use of vaccines and trap and test cull methods of control, the numbers of badgers must be reduced; and that doing nothing is not an option. He said that if I was not convinced, I was free to accompany him on a mass reactor cull in order to understand why farmers want the pilot badger cull.

No farmer I have spoken to wants to eradicate badgers; they want the ability to manage then. When a farm goes down with TB, it seems sensible to trap and test the relevant setts and, if they are found to be infected, eradicate them. However, the numbers of badgers have grown so far and so fast that the cull is required to bring the numbers down to a sustainable level. Only then will a vaccine be effective.

Another of my constituents, Chris Wilton, who is also a farmer and local councillor, has told me about the situation in Ireland. He pointed out that, after the cull in southern Ireland, the incidence of BTB is dropping, while in Northern Ireland, where there has not been a cull, it is increasing. He told me that the badger population is out of control because the badger is a protected species.

Finally, Audrey Cole, another constituent of mine, has lived and worked for many years in the countryside among the farming community in South East Cornwall. She sums up why I will vote against the Opposition motion and support the Government:

“Cattle are a major food source for the ever growing population in this country and everything possible should be done to protect THEM! Farming skills have evolved down through 100s of years of experience and farmers know the countryside & how it works better than anyone. Ignore what the farmers are saying at your peril!”

I hope that hon. Members on both sides of the House will not ignore the farming community and will support the Government’s amendment.