Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 20th April 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

The relevant questions session will not take place until 5 June, but I will write a letter, on the hon. Gentleman’s behalf, to ensure that the Secretary of State has heard what he has said. I should add that the Mayor has been doing an incredible job in regenerating that part of the country and making it a world leader in clean technology. However, the hon. Gentleman has raised serious issues, so I will, as I say, raise them with the Secretary of State on his behalf, although I assume he has already done so.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I think it fair to say that in the past, communities in Sandwell have felt that there has been a bit of “cut and run”, but in recent times the Government’s £4 million investment in historic high streets such as the one in Wednesbury has come as a sign of hope. That being said, the removal of the Wednesbury market from its Union Street site to the clock tower has caused no end of controversy. The traders did not want it, and nor did the community. May we have a debate in Government time on the broader topic of how we can realise investment in our communities, and how there can be real accountability when we are trying to level up historic market towns such as Wednesbury?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for all the work he has done to secure new investment, focusing on Wednesbury and other parts of his constituency. His important question illustrates why it is vital for people to consult the local community, including businesses and market traders, when such matters are under consideration. This seems like a good topic for an Adjournment debate, and he will know how to apply for one.

Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

That is not a satisfactory situation, and I will be happy to raise it with the Department after this session. The next Levelling Up, Housing and Communities Question Time is on 27 March, and the hon. Lady may be interested to know that my noble Friend Lord True, the Leader of the House of Lords, and I met all the permanent secretaries yesterday to make very clear the level of service we expect from their Departments.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

The Black Country was built on metals, and metal engineering, iron founding, surface engineering and heat treatment still play an important part in our local economy, providing well-paid jobs and opportunities to truly level up our communities, but the industry faces acute issues with rising energy prices and recruitment. Can we have a debate in Government time on how we can support the metals industry, particularly in the Black Country? I have raised this with Ministers in the Treasury and the former Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, but we need a debate on the Floor of the House to ensure the future of this vital industry for my communities in Tipton and Wednesbury.

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend is right that this is an incredibly important sector and a real sovereign capability for this country. He will have many opportunities to raise it on the Floor of the House, because it is relevant to so many Departments, but I suggest that Business and Trade Question Time on 23 March might be the nearest opportunity.

Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising the issue. I shall pass her concerns on to the Foreign Office, and I encourage her to make contact with the new Foreign Secretary to discuss the matter directly.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

It is great to see my right hon. Friend in her place as she takes up her position; I warmly congratulate her. Sandwell Metropolitan Borough Council was awarded £20 million by the Government for a family hub. We all know that a person’s start in life can, unfortunately, still dictate where they go. We need to change that, and a family hub can do that. I am working alongside local campaigners to ensure that a family hub is located at Harvills Hawthorn Primary School in West Bromwich in my constituency. It has the site, the connections and the networks by which to build the hub; we just need to get Sandwell council on board. Will my right hon. Friend give us a debate in Government time and perhaps make representations in Government to support the campaign to get a family hub at Harvills Hawthorn Primary School?

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Indeed, a former Leader of the House, the right hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Dame Andrea Leadsom), who is in her place, has done a huge amount of work on early years and encouraging family hubs, and he is right to campaign so hard for one in his constituency. I would be happy to help him achieve that objective. This particular council is featuring greatly in today’s business questions, so perhaps hon. Members should club together in applying for a debate, whether on denying transport to people who have special educational needs or on the blocking of family hubs.

Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

May I start by wishing everyone a bostin’ Black Country Day, as we celebrate the beating heart of the west midlands?

I come here today with some frustration about an issue that I raised with my right hon. Friend’s predecessor regarding onerous clauses in council house tenants’ contracts and leases that said they would be evicted if they criticised the Labour Administration in Sandwell. After a promised U-turn by the local authority, I found out an hour ago that those clauses have been included in council house tenants’ contracts. That is absolutely outrageous. Members of Parliament in Sandwell were given a guarantee by the Labour Administration that this would not happen. We have had corruption, commissioners and now contempt for the most vulnerable. Can we have a debate on the Floor of the House about this reckless council, and put this situation to bed?

[Mark Spencer]

I am sorry to hear of my hon. Friend’s frustrations. He is a tenacious champion, and I know he will continue to hold Sandwell Council to account. I suggest he applies for an Adjournment debate to raise the matter fully with a Minister and get a proper response.

Easter Adjournment

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 31st March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate. Reflecting on what was said at the start of this debate about the impact of the great Sir David Amess, I take this opportunity to make my contribution as local as it can be. In that regard, I want to transport Members to the beating heart of this country, the Black Country. It is great to see the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Dame Meg Hillier) in her place, because she will know the efforts I have taken to educate civil servants about the difference between the Black Country and Birmingham. Perhaps one ask I have of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House is that it becomes part of civil service training to understand the differences between the Black Country and Birmingham. Perhaps he could ensure, using his good offices, that as part of that standard training manual for new Ministers and civil servants, particularly permanent secretaries, they understand that, as we say, “The Black Country ain’t Birmingham.”

I take this opportunity to talk about the communities I represent in Wednesbury, Great Bridge, Princes End, Tipton Green, Tividale and Oldbury. I will try, in the spirit of Sir David, to include as much as I can locally in my contribution. Let us get started with Tipton. I need to raise with my right hon. Friend the issue of the residents of Thomas Cox Wharf and Alexandra Grange, a new development built by Mar City and Aurora Living. This development has been left with roads not resurfaced and pavements not done, and the builder and developer have now gone into liquidation. This means that the remedial works that should have been done and the moneys that should have been recovered through section 106 agreements with the local authority have not happened. I have now worked with two Housing Ministers to try to get this resolved. We have made some progress, particularly on the Alexandra Grange development, in getting some of the work done, but it is clearly not right that my constituents in Tipton are having to put up with their estate not being completed in the way they would have expected. As a result, they are unable to sell their home in many cases, so they feel trapped. I hope my right hon. Friend can encourage the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to engage further and to see what we can do with Sandwell Council. I pay tribute to officers at Sandwell Council who have been practical in their work with me to try to resolve this issue.

Flooding has also been a big issue in Tipton. There were issues in Cotterills Road and Locarno Road, where I helped to move people’s damaged goods out of their property following flash flooding. Thanks to a lot of negotiation, we managed to get £80,000 from the Government for flood defences in Tipton. I am pleased to say that residents will now hopefully see the benefit of investment in Tipton, an area to which I feel very close. It was harrowing to see the impact of that flooding on my constituents.

Sticking with Tipton, I must mention the A461 or, as we know it, Great Bridge island, which is a nightmare. My constituency office is located in Great Bridge, which is a mile and a half from my home. It is a 45-minute drive in rush hour because of congestion on Great Bridge island. I have campaigned to get remedial work done for a year and a half, and my constituents want to see traffic lights on the island. I implore my right hon. Friend to advise me on the best way to start lobbying to get the money through so that people in Great Bridge can commute to and from work.

Princes End has a vibrant high street, but it needs more. I implore my right hon. Friend to give his ministerial colleagues a nudge to ensure that some levelling-up funding comes to Princes End, which is one of the most deprived wards in the west midlands.

Sandwell Council has done great work on the “cracker,” which is a fantastic green space in Princes End, to ensure it is kept clean and available. Can my right hon. Friend reaffirm that we will work to protect the very small amount of green space in urban areas such as mine in the Black Country? I am sure he is aware of the controversial Black Country plan and the issues it has presented for green spaces across the Black Country.

We are fortunate to have a heritage action zone in Wednesbury that has seen our fantastic clock tower, which is nearly 100 years old, get £1.6 million of investment. I welcome that money.

Surprisingly, after 20 years of no movement, there has suddenly been movement on Wednesbury’s health centre in the past two years. It is amazing what happens with a change of personnel. We need to make sure that that follows through, and I implore my right hon. Friend to advise me on how we can ensure that the Government work with local stakeholders to deliver that much-needed addition to local health infrastructure for people in Wednesbury and nearby Darlaston so that they have the access to primary care they need.

Will my right hon. Friend assure my constituents, particularly market traders in Wednesbury, that the Government are listening to market traders and market stallholders? They are still a key part of our local economy, and Wednesbury is a proud market town. We have to ensure that it keeps that heritage.

Antisocial behaviour has been a big issue in Wednesbury and West Bromwich. Hill Top in my constituency has recently had massive issues with antisocial behaviour, and I am working with Vijay Gaddu, a local campaigner, to ensure that we tackle it. I am also working with local stakeholders such as the fantastic Rev. Mark Wilson from St James and St Paul’s Church in Hill Top to ensure we get it under control. I hope my right hon. Friend has some words for campaigners like Vijay and Mark to ensure we tackle antisocial behaviour. Equally, we need to get a grip on the parking issues around Wednesbury.

I am conscious that I am cantering through my speech, but I want to make sure I say as much as I can. Family hubs are important. Harvills Hawthorn Primary School in my constituency has campaigned hard for a family hub, and the Harvills Hawthorn estate is an area of real deprivation. The school’s headteacher has done fantastic work with children aged four, five and six years old who are struggling with verbal communication skills and with basic needs, and they are also working with their parents. They need that extra support.

It was great to see the Government’s commitment to family hubs, but we need to ensure that areas such as Harvills Hawthorn get that support. I appreciate that this is a bit of a shopping list for my right hon. Friend— unfortunately, these debates are like that—but I hope that he or one of his ministerial colleagues could meet me to discuss the importance of a family hub there, because it is a key part of ensuring that the levelling-up agenda, which is vital for my constituents, particularly young people at the start of their lives, gets through. I was impressed by the young people at Harvills Hawthorn.

We are going up the bonk now, as we would say where I am from, because residents in Tividale are equally dealing with horrendous issues around antisocial behaviour, particularly on new build estates and with management companies that do not appear to be following through. In my right hon. Friend’s discussions with ministerial colleagues, I ask him to keep the pressure on to ensure that those who pay management fees, particularly freeholders, get what they are paying for.

In particular, there is a long-standing issue about a gate on the Speakers Close estate in Tividale. It is a prime example of where residents know the need to tackle antisocial behaviour and they have the solution but they cannot break down the barriers in their way. Residents have come to me about it because councillors and management companies have let them down, so I needed to raise the issue on the Floor of the House.

I have tried to canter through as much as I can and to keep hon. Members’ attention, which I hope I have, in a short space of time. I will say that the last couple of years have been tumultuous in Sandwell. We have seen in the press the issues that we have had with the local authority and commissioners coming through, and we have seen some of the other issues that we have had as well, but I want to touch on the good things, such as the fantastic community in Sandwell. I am sure that my right hon. Friend will agree, as he came to Sandwell recently to visit me and my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich East (Nicola Richards), and I am sure he saw first hand the great community that we have.

That is nowhere more true than for the residents of Walker Grange care home in Tipton, who reminded me why I am here. Walker Grange’s oldest resident is 102 years old and it has been her home for 30 years. It was under threat of closure as the council was absolutely determined to close it; I raised that with my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister at the time. Through the sheer determination of the residents and their families, they kept that care home open, and not just that—they secured the £1-million investment that they needed to upgrade it. That resident said to me that it was her life and she could not see herself carrying on living if she did not live with the family that she had built there. That proved to me that the communities of the Black Country, as we would say, “Them bostin’” and they make me so proud to be their Member of Parliament.

I take the opportunity on our Adjournment to wish everyone, including House staff, you, Madam Deputy Speaker, and hon. Members on both sides of the House, a restful recess—even though I do not think it will be restful for many of us. I say to my constituents that I am proud to be their Member of Parliament and I hope that my right hon. Friend will have picked up the shopping list that I have given him on their behalf.

Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 24th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mark Spencer]

I am aware of the challenges that the tram system in the west midlands has faced. I will draw the issue to the attention of the Secretary of State for Transport on the hon. Gentleman’s behalf and will make sure he gets an answer in due course.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

It was great to welcome my right hon. Friend to West Bromwich a few weeks ago, in his first outing in his new role. In a written ministerial statement on Tuesday it was announced that, after years of campaigning by residents and community groups, commissioners would be sent in to Labour-led Sandwell council to root out the corruption that has been at the heart of that local authority for some 50 years. Can I ask my right hon. Friend to use his good office to ensure that we have a debate on the Floor of this House about that corruption and its impact on residents? Will he also reaffirm the commitment made by his predecessor that, if the Labour administration frustrates the process in any way, it will be held to account?

[Mark Spencer]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and also for his hospitality in Sandwell when I visited. He is a huge advocate and champion for his area. I know he will continue to hold the people on Sandwell council to account in this House. He is a very effective advocate for his constituents, and I know they are better off for having his representation in this place.

Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 20th January 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Whenever the name of the hon. Member for Swansea East is mentioned in relation to a campaign, I always have a sneaking suspicion that it will be successful. I will take up what the hon. Gentleman has asked for. I know it is something that the Government are planning to do; it is merely a matter of timing. I hope we can find out a precise time for him and his hon. Friend.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

This week, the Secretary of State for the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities announced that he was minded to send commissioners into Labour-led Sandwell Council. We know about the corruption and malfeasance at the heart of the Labour administration in Sandwell, but can my right hon. Friend confirm that we will have the opportunity to have a debate in Government time on Sandwell Council at long last? Will he also confirm, responding on behalf of the Government, that should these commissioners find anything—whether that be instances of real financial corruption by previous leaders, councillors or even the former chief executive—these matters will be referred to the police and the Crown Prosecution Service?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

We may need to set aside days of debate to discover all the failings and corruptions in socialist councils. They seem to come up at business questions again and again. It is important that Members hold local authorities to account, and this is not the first time that my hon. Friend has raised suspicious dealings at Sandwell in this House at business questions. The Government have been able to send commissioners to improve the performance of serially failing local authorities—that is a vital tool—and it is right that they are held to account. Of course, if crimes have been committed, the police should be called and involved.

Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. We have in some years had a debate around Armistice Day, where it has been possible to record the contribution of a range of people who have been involved in keeping the country safe and free. I am afraid that in normal circumstances, this is more a matter for the Backbench Business Committee than the Government, but his appeal is very wise.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

The rot in the Labour administration in Sandwell is continuing to pervade. Last month, we saw the botched attempt by the council to close a care home in Tipton. Then we saw the moonlight flit on Tuesday of the leader of the Labour party in Sandwell, and now we have the disgraceful edict from the politburo—sorry, I mean the cabinet of Sandwell Council that if council tenants disagree with the council, they risk eviction from their home. I am sure my right hon. Friend agrees that this is a disgraceful situation. Can we have a debate in Government time about the shambles that is the Labour administration in Sandwell Council? The Opposition promised to deal with it. They have failed. Perhaps it is time for us to do something about it.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am appalled by what my hon. Friend tells me. It is a very important point, and it is not the first time that the failings of Labour in Sandwell have been raised in this House. There is something rotten at the heart of many socialist councils. I noticed his slip in referring to the politburo, because there is sometimes a feeling of absolute control. The issue he raises today about limiting freedom of speech is particularly troubling. Politicians must expect challenge and for people to disagree with them and to push hard and argue their points. To try to put in a council contract that someone has to be polite or not say rude things about the council sounds like the sort of thing that happens in totalitarian communist states and not in the United Kingdom. I will pass on my hon. Friend’s concerns to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.

Business of the House

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 20th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am absolutely delighted and honoured to receive such kind birthday wishes from the hon. Lady. I do not think anybody in the House will believe that I am younger than her. That simply cannot be true, although it would be improper of me to suggest that the House has been misled. If looks are anything to go by, I have aged less well than her.

The hon. Lady suggests all sorts of excellent presents. They are already there, wrapped and splendidly arrayed, because we know exactly what the Government’s position on travel is. The law is clear, and the guidance is clear. The law is that people may travel if they need to and there are requirements when they get back. There is a testing environment if someone goes to a green country; there is a quarantine regime at home if someone goes to an orange or amber country; and there is further quarantine if someone goes to a red country, whereby they have to stay in places approved by the Government, to ensure that people are kept safe. It is a very sensible way of approaching these things and accepts that people will be making choices for themselves, which is inevitable as we come to the end of this pandemic.

Free trade is one of the greatest advances of prosperity that has ever been known. We saw this in the 19th century, which reminds me that my birthday is also the anniversary of the birth of Queen Victoria. In the good old days, it used to be Empire Day, and we got a public holiday, but alas, no longer; I was rather sorry that the hon. Lady did not call for the public holiday to be restored. Free trade has been absolutely essential to this nation’s prosperity, and the more free trade we have, the better it helps consumers and producers alike. It helps producers to become more efficient and more globally competitive while providing lower-cost goods and food and so on for consumers.

On parkrun, I am not quite sure I see myself in running kit. I was surprised that the hon. Lady did not mention the football that is coming up—the euro games, with England, Scotland and Wales all involved. The selection of the Scottish team caused greater interest, I understand, than the reshuffle of the Scottish Administration. That will be fun and fancy for people to have.

Let me come to the really serious points that the hon. Lady raised. I entirely agree that this Government and this country must root out antisemitic hate speech. It has no place in a civilised society. It is the most wrong and wicked of all the unpleasant and wrong prejudices that people have, bearing in mind the history of Europe over the past 100 years. There is absolutely no place for it. Incitement to racial hatred is illegal, and that is not in contradiction to the right to freedom of speech.

On Dementia Action Week, the hon. Lady is again so right in saying that dementia is the cruellest disease. It is sometimes crueller on those who are caring than on those who are suffering. The long time it has to be borne can seem endless. It is a great burden for families, and the last year has been simply horrible for people with family members suffering from dementia whom they have not been able to see in the normal way. However, I reassure her that a social care plan is being brought forward; there will be one by the end of the year. It is not easy, and everybody recognises that. The last Labour Government—although that is now, by the grace of God, some years ago—had a royal commission and two Green Papers on the subject. If it were easy, it would of course have been done already, but it is difficult, and it is important that it is got right, and it is therefore right that time has been taken to do it.

The building safety Bill was in the Gracious Speech, which we have thanked Her Majesty for with an Humble Address, which will be delivered in due course to Her Majesty. I do not quite know whether it has gone yet. The Whips take it in fine fettle and parade, and they will come back at some point carrying a wand; we will see it all splendidly done. However, the building safety Bill will be brought forward, and there will be a clear declaration of policy as to how the paying for the difficulties with the removal of unsafe cladding will be taken forward. Buildings taller than 59 feet in the social housing sector that have cladding of the type that Grenfell had have either already had it removed or a plan for it to be removed is in place.

Finally, the hon. Lady mentions nurses’ pay. A 1% pay increase is being given to nurses. Over the last year, 56,900 more people have begun working in the NHS. That is a real success. It shows that the recruitment is right, which usually indicates that the pay is right.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I have been inundated with correspondence from residents in Tividale in my constituency who are unable to access GP appointments. A campaign is now being spearheaded by Emma Henlan, a local campaigner trying to ensure that her community can get GP appointments. We know that the Government are committing £1.5 billion to primary care, but can we have a debate in Government time on the future of primary care? We know that our GPs want to step up, but we need to ensure that there is a real integrated strategy that allows them to provide the services and ensures that people like Emma and her residents and my constituents can access those vital GP appointments.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Let me reiterate what I said last week: all practices should offer face-to-face consultations where appropriate. That is absolutely right. They have an obligation to do that. To help expand general practice capacity, Her Majesty’s Government have made available an additional £270 million of funding from November 2020 until September 2021 to ensure that GPs and their teams are able to continue to support all patients, and those who require face-to-face appointments should and must be given them.

Restoration and Renewal of the Palace of Westminster

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Thursday 20th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

After that fantastic contribution from my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Dehenna Davison), I feel this is going to be a bit of a disappointment, but let us see how it goes.

This has truly been slightly seat-of-the-pants stuff today, believe it or not. I did not really know what to expect when I came into this debate. As we saw the opening salvos from the Leader of the House of Commons and the hon. Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire), I thought we were going to see the old arguments of leave or remain, but just that we had stepped through the looking glass a little bit. As the debate has progressed, however, I think some really important points have been made. I am conscious that I will probably not be able to address all of them to the extent that I would wish to, but I would like to touch first on the idea of the opportunities that come out of this.

The right hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami), the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and other hon. Members are absolutely right: there is an opportunity with these works, either way, to ensure we see the best this country has to offer—whether that means ensuring we have builders from Wednesbury, bricklayers from Spennymoor, electricians from Haslington, surveyors from Clitheroe or artists from Clifton—and to ensure that as we do this work we can showcase the best this country has to offer. We all know that it truly does have the best to offer. We need to ensure, as we come out of the pandemic and out of the economic hard times, that we use the restoration of this Palace as a symbol to everyone else that we are back and that we do support those industries, we do support our economy and we do support our local artisans. It is important that we do that at the heart of our democracy.

Picking up on a point made by the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman), this is an important debate. Do not get me wrong. There are other things I wish to talk about as well, of course. I want to have debates about how we protect survivors of domestic violence. I want to have debates about ensuring that the children in areas such as Princes End in my constituency, which has some of the highest rates of child poverty, get the resources and the opportunities they deserve. But at the moment, the way we do that is by ensuring that the basis of our democracy—the area we have those debates in—functions; that it can operate, that we can have those debates and done in the right way. Because if this place slows down and is not operational, we cannot do that and we cannot change people’s lives. That is why every single one of us is here: to change people’s lives for the better. That is why we are here, irrespective of party and irrespective of whether we are a socialist, Conservative, Unionist or nationalist, and to be able to do that, we need a place to do it from.

I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland that we must ensure we are back here after any sort of decamp, because that is what the public expect. The hon. Member for Aberdeen North made an interesting point when she said that her constituents saw this as a stuffy place. For the schoolchildren from areas such as Tipton in my constituency who came down pre-pandemic, this place was awe-inspiring. I remember welcoming a school down from Tipton just before the pandemic and their awe at this place. Many of them felt that this place was inaccessible to them, and I was so proud, as their Member of Parliament, to show them round and say to them, “No, you can come here, and do you know what? One day you could be sat on these Benches, and you should be able to aspire to be here.”

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Gentleman is making a fantastic point. I have had the opportunity, through the Parliamentary Education Centre, to have schoolchildren from the different strands of education—state schools, Catholic-controlled maintained schools and integrated schools—come to this place, and they all look forward to it, because it is an opportunity for them to see the mother of Parliaments at work and to ask their Member of Parliament questions. He is right: it is also an opportunity for us to give encouragement to those young people, who one day could be Members of Parliament.

[Shaun Bailey]

I thank the hon. Gentleman—my hon. Friend, if I may say so—for that intervention. He is absolutely right. It has been disappointing that, because of the pandemic, I have not had the opportunity to show more schools round, but I hope to be able to do so in the future with our fantastic Education Centre, which I pay tribute to for the work it does, as I am sure all Members do.

I touched previously on the best of British, and we have to ensure that the procurement is open and transparent. That is key, and it is what the public expect, particularly given the fact that we have gone through some interesting times over the last few months. We need to ensure that there is transparency. I will not regurgitate all the points that my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland made about transparency on the costings, because she articulated them much better than I would, but we need to be up front with people about the cost of this. When we talk about billions of pounds, what does that actually mean? We bandy these words around in the Chamber quite a lot, but sometimes that can feel quite disconnected, as I know from the conversations I often have with my constituents, particularly a few weeks ago on the doorsteps.

For example, the £29 million spent on the Elizabeth Tower project could pay for us to run nearly 1,000 police stations in my constituency. I am actually losing all my constituency’s police stations, but that is a different matter altogether that we are not going to talk about right now. The point is that we have to make this relative to the people we represent, because I think we all agree that ultimately this is their Parliament. We are the custodians of it, but this is their Parliament, and we have to ensure that we do the work on their building—on the people’s building—in the way that they would expect us to do it, which is transparent and cost-effective and respects the situation that we now find ourselves in.

As many Members have said, when people are losing their jobs and their livelihoods, it is difficult to explain why we are spending millions of pounds on a building. I would find it difficult to go into some of my most deprived communities that have lost so much and say to them, “We’ve just spent millions of pounds on knocking down a 35-year-old building.” I would struggle to look them in the eye and justify that.

I am conscious of the need to allow colleagues to make their contributions, so I will conclude. We have to get this right. As many Members have said, it is about the people who are here; they are at the heart of this. I echo the comments made about accessibility, which is really important. The hon. Member for Bristol West articulated that very well, and I absolutely agree with her. We have to ensure that, as part of the works, this place is accessible to everyone and allows everyone, irrespective of additional need, to access it.

Equally, we must ensure that the people we engage to do the work pay the living wage and use apprentices and that this work is done to advocate social mobility, so that people from all backgrounds and all strands of life can be part of the work and benefit from it.

This is vital work. It will set the stage for how this place is viewed in the decades to come. It is vital that we get this right and get this done, but it must be done in the right way that respects our communities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Those figures seem to relate to the £44 million spent on the Northern Estate project, the £24.6 million for Canon Row, the £15.9 million for fire safety, the £12.6 million for the Elizabeth Tower and the £4.8 million for IT, almost all of which will continue regardless of how R and R is done. Therefore I am concerned about the impression being given by this figure that there is a massive increase in cost because we have not yet moved out. I do not think that is accurate, but if the hon. Lady would like to give more elaboration on the figures, I would find it very helpful.

I have tried to look for further details to understand what is being quoted in that £127 million figure that was mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire and alluded to by the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier). I think it is important to get an understanding that a lot of the costs we are being told are extra are actually preliminary, because we are getting on with the work to get things ready.

There is the crucial work—a number of people have mentioned Notre Dame—on fire safety. We should bear in mind that the fire safety work has been tested and completed, with the exception of the Victoria Tower, in the past few months, and includes: 7,112 automatic fire detection devices; 1,364 locations for fire stopping compartmentation, dividing the Palace into 16 compartments; 4,126 sprinkler heads in the basement of the Palace, so the risk that we have heard about of a conflagration from the basement is very, very significantly reduced; and the 8 miles of pipe that I have referred to before.

It is really important to understand that a lot of work is already going on and ties in with the outline business case, which is being carried out to schedule by the Sponsor Body and the Delivery Authority. That is the right way to proceed, because a number of people have mentioned the Elizabeth Tower, including the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch, and what went wrong there with the cost going up from £29 million to £80 million. The key thing we learn from that is that we need to do the outline business case in detail.

I actually think that had we said to the British people, “To redo Big Ben, a national symbol, would cost us £80 million”, the British people would have said that that was a perfectly reasonable thing to do. I think the criticism came because the expense rose as the process unfolded. We want to ensure that that does not happen with restoration and renewal and that we get a figure that is realistic.

[Shaun Bailey]

Just to touch on that very briefly, if I understand my right hon. Friend correctly, it is not so much that we have an aversion to public expenditure; what I think he is trying to say is that we should be up front with the public about exactly what that looks like. Am I correct in understanding what he is trying to say there?

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Absolutely, but within limits. The £10 billion to £20 billion would, I think, test the patience of most of our voters. That is why I do not think that this House should go blindly into approving or delegating this scheme without knowing precisely what the cost is. This debate is therefore important, because the outline business case is being worked on as we speak. Those involved have begun the survey work, and they are getting on with it, which is really important. But if they come back to us in early 2023 and say, “The cost is going to be £10 billion to £20 billion.” there will be a vote in this House to approve it or not. I have a nasty feeling that if it is at that level, we will not approve it, and yet the work must be done. So now is the time to give the message that we are willing to accept a little inconvenience and to have more restoration than renewal, and that while we have to ensure that disability access is done properly, we recognise that the last percentage of disability access is the most expensive. There are therefore compromises that we will be called upon to make.