United Kingdom Internal Market Bill

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Wednesday 16th September 2020 Commons Chamber

[Fay Jones]

I absolutely will. My hon. Friend makes a very important point, which I will come back to later.

I want to look quickly at the notion of a power grab. If I phoned the police and said that my car had been stolen, but when they arrived explained that I never owned the car in the first place, I do not think I would be taken seriously. That is absolutely how we should treat the hysteria of Opposition Members.

When the UK left the European Union, we did so as one United Kingdom. The powers that are returning through the Bill, outlined in clause 46, were ceded to Brussels as part of our membership of the European Union. As sovereignty is restored to this Parliament and the devolved Administrations, it is right that powers should also be restored. Members of this House will recall a long drawn-out legal case brought by Gina Miller, which confirmed that this Parliament was and remains sovereign, and this Bill reinforces that. In addition, the Welsh Parliament will be handed responsibility for 70 new policy areas while none of the existing areas of legislative competence is being removed, so to those who argue this is a power grab, I simply say, “You cannot lose something you never had.”

The Bill will give the UK Government the power to do exactly what they should be doing—strengthening even further the most successful political and economic union in history. It is about doing more at a reserved level, not less at a devolved level. It will give the UK Government the power to invest in Wales’s economic development, something that successive Governments in Cardiff Bay have refused to do. Broadband is a good example of that; according to the House of Commons Library, Brecon and Radnorshire lags at 648th in the league table of 650 constituencies for broadband speed. [Interruption.] I hear the hon. Member for Cardiff North (Anna McMorrin) chuntering from a sedentary position, but that is in the House of Commons Library. Her party is responsible for it.

Schemes such as the Welsh Government’s Superfast Cymru have been enabled by taxpayers in Brecon and Radnor, despite them barely having felt the benefit of that money, while the south Wales valleys—a hotbed of Labour party support—are fully connected up with high-speed internet access. Areas that do not vote Labour in Wales are punished with second-rate public services and we must correct this.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend clarify something for me? If I am right and have interpreted the Bill correctly, in theory, the UK Government could put together the M4 relief road, which the Labour party has just decided not to go with. Am I correct in that analysis?

[Fay Jones]

That is certainly a good point and one that has been hotly contested. The Welsh Government wasted an awful lot of money on it, but never even arrived at a decision.

Through the Bill, there are huge opportunities for Brecon and Radnorshire. I can get my shopping list out and bid for funding for a new general hospital. Considering we are the largest constituency in England and Wales by land and we do not have a district general hospital, that will be very welcome. Constituents are forced to travel outside Powys to hospitals in Hereford, Swansea or Aberystwyth for treatment. I see the Minister making notes. I assure her I would bite her hand off on this. The same can be said for railway infrastructure. We can utilise the nascent Marches growth deal and reopen the railway between Hereford and Brecon, boosting our tourism opportunities while providing greener public transport solutions.

The Bill delivers on exactly what we said we would do at the general election. It enables us to level up in all four corners of the United Kingdom. It will be warmly welcomed in mid-Wales, which has been ignored by Labour and the Liberal Democrats in coalition in Cardiff Bay. Sadly, there is no doubt that the opposition parties will use the Bill as an opportunity to reignite their campaign of talking down our potential as a sovereign, independent nation. Rather than strengthening our Union and empowering our Parliaments in all four nations, they would prefer to be subservient to Brussels for decades to come. I say to them that now is not the time to remain in the past. Rather, it is time to look forward to a new chapter in our shared history, laying the foundations for making this the most prosperous chapter yet. This Bill and this clause do exactly that.

--- Later in debate ---

Prior to coming into this House, I was a financial planner. One of the elements of planning was to ensure the right money in the right hands at the right time, and these clauses are about getting the right money to the right places in a timely manner for the benefit of the people, bringing more powers to each devolved nation and supporting every part of the United Kingdom. Today’s Opposition amendments simply take away from this, and I urge those sitting across from me in the Chamber today to stop playing political games and to recognise the benefits this will bring to us all.

[Shaun Bailey]

Before I start my comments, I would like to say that it is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts). Obviously, it is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart). When I saw his name on the call list, I was filled with excitement, and he has not disappointed. His remarks were an oratorical smorgasbord, with words I had not even thought of. Was it “slap a jack”, or whatever it was? To get that into Hansard is an achievement. While I disagree with pretty much everything he said, as always, in his usual way, he has not let us down, so it is always great to follow him.

I want to be a bit parochial in my comments today because, for me, clauses 46 and 47 of this Bill are, ultimately about our communities. That is the core of this, and I want to talk about my communities today because, like many people who have spoken and contributed ahead of me, I have real problems in my communities, which can be resolved and dealt with, I hope by utilising the provisions in clause 46 of this Bill.

Let us look at the deprivation element and how we can use the investment angle to tackle deprivation. In my constituency, Tipton—a town many Members have heard me talk about time and again; many call it the forgotten city—is in the lowest 20th percentile of deprivation in this country. People in that community have felt abandoned and ignored—by successive Governments of every colour—for years and years. Yes, they have benefited from the funding that had come from the EU, and it is this Government’s commitment to ensure, through the shared prosperity fund, that those communities still have a lifeline and still have a way in which we can ensure that we can truly level them up.

The reason people sent me here and the reason they voted to leave the European Union was a simple one: it was that they felt this place spoke at them. They felt they had been ignored. They had seen their communities degraded, they have not seen the benefits lauded by those who wished us to remain in it and they felt that their communities had been let down because they felt they did not matter. That is how they had been left to feel. So this is about ensuring that this Government, as we leave the EU, can fulfil that pledge on a UK basis.

In my communities, I still have parents coming to me in tears because they fear for their child’s future because of where they come from. I have people saying to me, “Ah, when you’re from Tipton, the police will stop you because of the community you come from”. That is why this matters. That is why I am surprised to a degree by the opposition to this, because surely the betterment and empowerment of our communities is why all of us are here. It is absolutely the core fundamental principle of being Members of Parliament. I think as well of what we can do and of the potential of clause 46, and again I am going to talk about my own community, because that is why I am here. [Interruption.] Sorry, Mr Evans, I am looking at clause 46 in terms of rejecting the amendments, and clause 46 does provide us with such an opportunity across the UK.

I get the points that have been raised about devolution and I have heard the points made by Opposition Members, but I would say that the elephant in the room, which we have missed actually, is English devolution and how that squares with this. I think of the West Midlands Combined Authority. That is an example of devolution and of a devolved administration engaging with the UK Government, through our Mayor Andy Street. It has lobbied for investment in infrastructure and is lobbying the UK Government to fulfil their pledge to ensure that the areas that require those benefits or require such funding do get it. It is by a proactive approach that the fears that Members are trying to combat with these amendments can be allayed. Surely it is about a proactive approach.

[Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

I have gladly worked with my hon. Friend across the Black Country. He will know that Andy Street has been very proactive in his approach and that we are seeing the benefits already. Does my hon. Friend think that he is key to our achieving a very bright future across the west midlands, and that we need to see him elected next May in order to see a prosperous future?

[Shaun Bailey]

Of course I agree with my hon. Friend, but I want to focus my remarks on devolution and on this accusation of a power grab. Ultimately, the core of the opposition to these clauses today is that, actually, it is believed that this Government are taking away powers. As my hon. Friends have said, my communities do not mind where the money comes from as long as they see the benefits. I am sure that Members from all parts of the Committee will agree with that. Investment is investment. As I have said, we were sent to this place to ensure the better empowerment of our communities, especially for the vulnerable people in those communities. We have seen these back and forth arguments before, and I do not want get dragged into them and I do not want to be repetitious. I appreciate though that, at this point, it is difficult not to be repetitious, but what I would say is that the opportunities that come from this Bill will allow us, on a UK-wide level, to truly commit to levelling up to ensure that we can seize those opportunities as we go forward and to ensure that we can deliver, particularly in areas such as mine, on that election mandate and on what people believed they were voting for four years ago and in December last year. That is absolutely crucial.

I want to bring my remarks to a close because I am incredibly conscious that other Members want to get in, so I will simply say this: I disagree entirely with those who say that this is a power grab. I reject the amendments. We have so much potential with this Bill, particularly with clause 46, to ensure that we can hold feet to the fire. We should engage and work together. I know that Opposition Members are probably thinking, wahey, a new Member with his lovely naive approach, but we need to have that. We really do. Sometimes that little bit of naivety, that little bit of pushing forward and thinking that, yes, we can talk and put our covers aside means that we can actually bring about change. If we do that, then we will truly see the benefits of this Bill. That will happen through engagement with the institutions. There is still a respect for devolution. As I have said before, I want kids in Tipton to learn about Rabbie Burns as much as anywhere else. I want them to understand the shared culture that we have as members of this Union of nations and understand the cultures of every part of this Union of nations. Ultimately, what this Bill comes down to is engagement with those institutions. We have seen it in England through our combined authorities and the work that they have done to bring in investment using a model that is very similar to the one proposed in this Bill. I support this Bill wholeheartedly.

[Anna McMorrin]

Let us just get this straight: this Bill is pure political opportunism from a Government so wrapped up in their own fiction that they have forgotten what reality looks like. As it stands, this Bill will set in motion the biggest re-centralisation of power from Wales to Whitehall in over two decades.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Report stage & 3rd reading & 3rd reading: House of Commons & Report stage: House of Commons
Tuesday 14th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Things have perked up enormously on the time front. However, from now on, if Members could stick to five minutes, everyone will be able to speak. I call Shaun Bailey.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

Before I begin, on Black Country Day, I want to pay tribute to the Black Country chartists and suffragettes in Wednesbury and Tipton who fought for us to be here under one member, one vote and ensure that our constituents could be represented.

I fear that I may repeat many of the arguments that had been made eloquently today. It is great to follow the hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), who gave enlightening and interesting evidence to the Bill Committee. I would like to thank all members of the Bill Committee. It was my first Bill Committee, and what a Bill Committee to be on. As my hon. Friend the Member for Heywood and Middleton (Chris Clarkson) put it, it allowed me to utilise my psephological exuberance, which is a fantastic phrase that I will try to make sure I get into conversations from now on.

I want to touch on three main points. The first is on automaticity—a word that I have finally learned to say without tongue-twisting. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) said in Committee, at the moment we are in a situation where we mark our own homework; there is no doubt about that. I do not understand how we can reconcile that. I repeat what I said on Second Reading: what is being proposed is an independent, judiciary-led commission. I have trust and faith in our judiciary. I am a lawyer—that is bred into me. Unless someone wants to take me to school on this, my understanding of our constitutional structure is that this place sets the laws, and the judiciary help to interpret them, so I do not understand where this fear of what is business as usual comes from.

My hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) articulated the point eloquently, as did my neighbour, the right hon. Member for Warley (John Spellar), about the Boundary Commission’s Selly Oak proposal. The independent commission took evidence from the community, after which it made the decision that the proposal was not acceptable. We talk about this as if, once we get the initial recommendations, that is it—game over. It is not like that at all. Those who have been through the experience of a boundary change know full well that it is not like that, so I struggle to accept that argument from the Opposition.

When we talk about a 7.5% threshold, it is not actually 7.5%—it is 15%. Let us be honest about that. The Venice Commission report, which Opposition Members have quoted freely, states clearly that that 15% threshold is for exceptional circumstances.

The semantics of that report were quite clear. It effectively advised to steer well clear of going anywhere near that, and actually went so far as to suggest that we should keep that threshold as minimal as possible to ensure certainty, fairness and parity among constituencies. I do not accept Opposition Members’ interpretation of that report.

Oral Answers to Questions

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Wednesday 1st July 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Lady raises a very important point about the self-employed. As she knows, we have provided very considerable support as part of the overall package of £120 billion—I think we have given £22 billion altogether through the furlough scheme for employed and self-employed people. Her further suggestion for a universal basic income is one that we have looked at. The best way forward for our country is to get the disease under control in the way that we are doing; get our people back into work; build, build, build; and take this country forward.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

It was great to have my right hon. Friend in the Black Country announcing his new vision yesterday. Perhaps next time he is in the Black Country, he will come five minutes down the road to Tipton, where we can sort him out a pint in the pie factory. I was recently contacted by two students in my constituency, Elliot Wilkes from Sandwell Academy and Will Gill from Q3 Academy Tipton. They want reassurance from the Prime Minister that his announcement yesterday means that, after years of neglect and being overlooked, our communities in Wednesbury, Oldbury and Tipton will finally get the recognition that we deserve.

[The Prime Minister]

I am trying to stick off the pies at the moment, but my hon. Friend can tell his communities in Tipton that we are investing massively not just in education, with, as I say, £14 billion more into our schools, but in infrastructure that will reach every corner of the country, particularly the west midlands. I am delighted that West Bromwich will receive at least £500,000 from the Stronger Towns Fund this year to support its high street and local community.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill (Eighth sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 8th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 30th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Clive Efford]

I rise to speak in support of the new clause tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester. This is about representation of communities and making sure that voices are heard through the democratic process. If we were to stick rigidly to the averages as calculated and impose them on Scotland and Wales, the significant loss of seats would make people in those nations wonder, “What is the point in the Westminster Parliament if our representation is diminished by such a degree—if we lose out in this process?” That is the way the public would see it, and that would undermine local representation.

I am prepared to accept that the situation in Scotland and Wales is significantly different from my situation in London and the situation in the rest of England. If we are to represent communities effectively, different numbers may apply, and it may be wrong to make a significant reduction in the number of constituencies, particularly at this time. A minimum threshold below which we cannot go is a sensible proposal. Those who say that they want to protect the Union—the integrity of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland—should think carefully about what the consequences of this process are, and the message that it sends to communities in Scotland and Wales.

The concept of making sure that we respect communities and local circumstances applies here, perhaps more than anywhere. During this debate, we have heard about constituencies that are geographically quite enormous compared with inner-city ones, in which people within a single constituency live more than 90 miles apart. When people are so distant, that cannot make for healthy democracy and healthy representation, so we have to accept some sort of limit on how large constituencies can be while still remaining a coherent, cohesive community that can be represented. I feel strongly about local representation, the link between a constituency MP and the communities they represent, which is something that Committee members on both sides of the House have referred to. We must give those MPs a racing chance of being able to represent their communities, so we cannot have constituencies that make that impossible.

I have an inner-city constituency, and although it is quite big compared with others, because there is lots of open space in it, I am able to go from one meeting to another; sometimes I do two or three meetings in an evening. That is nigh-on impossible for somebody with a constituency that is spread out over tens of miles—almost 90 miles. There has to be some sort of limitation on distance; we have to be realistic about that, whatever those who are fixed on applying mathematical formulas to this process say. There is an issue about democratic accountability and Members having strong ties to the community that they represent.

When it comes to the Bill’s impact on the number of Members of Parliament from Scotland and Wales, we have to step back and be realistic. If we want to maintain the Union, want people to value Westminster as the place where their laws are made, and want them to be well represented, there is a limit to how far we can go in cutting the number of MPs who come from Scotland and Wales to Westminster, so I support the new clause in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to make my first contribution under your chairmanship, Sir David; I seem to have missed you during our sittings. I want to pick up on the eloquent contributions of the hon. Members for Ceredigion, for Eltham, and for City of Chester. We run the risk of viewing ourselves from within a silo in this place, as if we were the only part of the democratic structure, but in fact we do not operate in a silo. Back in the 1940s, when we started reviewing parliamentary boundaries, we probably were the most significant part of that democratic structure, but of course that has changed.

This links back to the point made about the devolution settlement. Over the past 20 years, electors have got a lot more sophisticated. The hon. Member for Eltham said that people need to understand where their laws are made. Yes, they do, but a lot of people’s laws are made not here, but in Holyrood or Cardiff Bay. From the interactions I have had, I know that our electors understand that division in where their laws are made, and how we operate within the structure. There is also the role of local authorities; during the pandemic, we have seen that, and the support that they provide. Speaking from local experience, people understand the difference between the role of their local authority, and my interaction as a Member of Parliament with that local authority.

[Clive Efford]

I am interested in the hon. Gentleman’s line of argument. Is he arguing that the role of Westminster is diminishing in Scotland, and that reducing the number of MPs from Scotland is justified? It seems a strange argument for the Conservative party to make.

[Shaun Bailey]

I am saying that we have to take a pragmatic approach to how we view our United Kingdom; as a Unionist, I would never say that the role that the hon. Gentleman speaks of is diminished. It would be remiss not to recognise that voters, particularly in the devolved nations, understand the differences I mentioned. We talk about reducing the number of constituencies in areas of the UK; in a way, we have to balance that with the democratic structures that now exist there.

[David Linden]

The hon. Gentleman makes a thoughtful argument, but I rather feel that he is trying to square a circle. I follow where he is going with his point on the different legislatures that are available. My constituents have a Member of the UK Parliament, a local councillor and a Member of the Scottish Parliament. The problem with his argument is that until fairly recently, they also had a Member of the European Parliament. We are leaving the European Union—certainly not a change that I approve of—and legislative powers are, by and large, coming back from Brussels to Westminster. Under the Bill, those legislative powers will remain in Westminster, and representation for people in Scotland, including in my constituency, is diminished as a result. Can he not see that he is trying to square a circle in respect of Europe’s legislative powers?

--- Later in debate ---

[Shaun Bailey]

I see the hon. Gentleman’s point. It is a difficult one because it is a good point, but with respect to the line that I am following, I think the scope of what he is saying is a slightly different debate. It is slightly out of the scope of the clause but I see his point and recognise it to a degree. However, as we move into a more—without panicking Front Benchers—quasi-federal system perhaps, there needs to be a wider recognition of how we deal with these quotas. If we look at other systems—take Australia for example—and the way they set quotas between state and federal level, they differentiate. That is just how it goes. It means that areas lose seats and that loss of power is there, but it is made up for by the fact there is a system underneath and they interact with each other. I follow the argument of the hon. Member for Ceredigion, but given where we are constitutionally—I do not want to turn this into a huge constitutional debate because we could do that all day—and I agree that we need to be as pragmatic as we can and review this going forward, I think there is a balance there now with the Senedd and with the Scottish Parliament. I will draw my comments to a close to allow my hon. Friend to talk.

[Chloe Smith]

It has been another very interesting debate. I am grateful to the hon. Members for Eltham, for the City of Chester and for Ceredigion and to my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West for a thoughtful exposition of a much wider point—much wider than we could hope to do justice to in Committee. We have seen in the arguments, certainly on the Government side of the Committee, the desire to fix a much wider constitutional issue—namely, how England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland should relate to each other. Every single one of the hon. Members who spoke knows that that issue is much larger than the Bill. They also know that it comprises the rest of my portfolio and I would be delighted to speak about it at any other time. Indeed, we will. There are many depths in that work that are acknowledged and being worked upon and about which I am sure we will have many fruitful discussions in the future. I want to do two things today. I want to say a little bit more about why the Bill is not the right place to do that and then I will talk specifically about the merits of the amendment.

The Bill is not the right place to deal with the entirety of the constitutional settlement because, very obviously, it provides for a mechanism for independent boundary reviews, and the constitutional settlement is so much larger than that. This boundary review is, indeed, only for the UK Parliament. The constitutional settlement is much wider. Hon. Members will have heard the Prime Minister’s speech today, in which he made a number of passionately pro-Unionist points. He reminds us that the interests of the citizens of the United Kingdom—their security, prosperity, welfare, and all the opportunities we want to come out of the pandemic—are much wider than what we have here today and that he is addressing them. He is seeking to do that and he has set out clearly what he intends to do. Naturally, and as the Minister of State for the Constitution and Devolution, I am in full-throated support of that, but that is not the subject matter today.

Let us focus a little more on what the Bill does. We all want the constituent nations of the United Kingdom to have a powerful voice. That should be the foundation for all of us in this discussion and I am sure it is. We all want those voices to be heard loud and clear. That is the fair way for the Union to function and to come together in the Parliament of the unitary state. Because that is the only fair way, the new clause does not work. I am afraid to say that it would put inequality and inaccuracy in the way of that Unionist proposition and the prosperity of our Union. If we set in legislation the thresholds proposed in the new clause and amendment (a), we would be cutting into the heart of the idea that votes should be equal, and that would damage the equality between the nations and individual people of the Union.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill (Seventh sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 7th sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 30th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)]

rose—

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

rose—

[The Chair]

We now have a brace of speakers. I remind Members that they should confine their comments to amendment 1 proposed to clause 6, as there will be an opportunity to speak on clause stand part.

--- Later in debate ---

Whether or not the hon. Gentleman presses his amendment to a vote, having provoked me and other hon. Members to think about those forms of identity and community, which I am certainly for, I hope that we will give those matters real thought and consideration and not shackle our hands and those of the commissioners when they are doing their work.

[Shaun Bailey]

It is great to see you in the Chair again, Mr Paisley. I thank the hon. Member for Ceredigion for his probing amendment. I am a something of a fledgling Welsh speaker and taught myself in his constituency. Ydw, ‘dwi’n gallu siarad Cymraeg—ddim yn rhugl, ond yn iawn. Diolch yn fawr iawn. {Translation: Yes, I can speak Welsh—not fluently, but okay. Thank you very much.]

My right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke made a really pertinent point—my one concern is that the amendment could better limit how it define local ties— but the hon. Gentleman makes some really good points about language. Unless someone has been there and experienced a language in a community, they can never fully appreciate it, particularly in Wales. I speak of Wales because in my experience, the language, the community and the identity are so fundamentally ingrained there, meaning that the level of conversation and the way it flows is totally different depending on whether it is in Welsh or in English. That needs to be experienced as a Welsh speaker.

As many hon. Members have said, this is a really interesting probing amendment and it is great that the hon. Gentleman has tabled it so we can think about that. Hopefully, reaching 1 million Welsh speakers, which I think is an absolutely vital goal set by the Welsh Government and one with which I agree, will change the dynamic. I was pleased to hear in our evidence sessions about how the Boundary Commission for Wales takes language into account, which we saw in the proposals for the joined-up constituency of Ceredigion and Machynlleth in the aborted review; language played some role in drawing that boundary.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: we cannot forget linguistic considerations. However, as my right hon. Friend for Basingstoke said, we need to be really careful not to constrain ourselves, so I cannot support his absolutely fantastic amendment, which I hope the Minister will consider carefully none the less.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Chloe Smith)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I echo right hon. and hon. Members in welcoming this debate and the very thoughtful way in which the hon. Member for Ceredigion has proposed his amendment. It is important that we look at those issues, and he has given us great food for thought in the way that he has presented the topic.

That said, I will argue that the proposal should not form part of the Bill, and will do so on the basis of a point that we have covered a number of times in our deliberations so far, which is that we ought to retain the framework of factors in the schedule to the Bill at a relatively high level, thereby giving flexibility to the boundary commissioners rather than being any more specific. To be clear, we are talking about the list of factors in a specific paragraph of the schedule to the Bill. As the Committee will be aware, any boundary commission may take those factors into account when making recommendations if, and to the extent that, it sees fit. Those factors already include any local ties that would be broken by changes in constituencies.

I will make just one other preliminary point before I go on to how the boundary commissions have already been able to accommodate the importance of the Welsh language. It is that the amendment would have to apply to all the boundary commissions. The nature of putting something into these factors is that it would have to apply across the United Kingdom. Hon. Members might question whether that would be appropriate for the other boundary commissions to the extent that the hon. Gentleman has argued it is appropriate for Wales. There are some questions there. For example—Mr Paisley, I hope you do not mind me saying so—it is obvious that in Northern Ireland this would be quite a particular argument to put in the context of language and culture, which would have different effects from those in Wales, Scotland or England. For that reason alone, I hesitate to accept this amendment.

That said, the Welsh language is very important. It is an official UK language and one of the great inheritances of our Union, which we all have a responsibility to protect and develop. It is a manifesto commitment of this Government to support the ambition for 1 million people in Wales to be able to speak Welsh by 2050 and I am delighted that there are some in the Black Country as well, as demonstrated by my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West. The UK Government are working closely with our counterparts in Cardiff on that commitment. I am pleased to say that 11 UK Government Departments have implemented their own Welsh language schemes, too.

In 2017, the Boundary Commission for Wales voluntarily adopted the Welsh language standards that became applicable to its sister organisation, the Local Democracy and Boundary Commission for Wales. It reports annually on how it has delivered against the Welsh language standards. The most recent report outlined that the Boundary Commission for Wales had implemented a language preference system for all correspondence with the public and confirmed that it published all online and offline material bilingually at the same time.

A critical part of the commission’s work is its extensive public consultation. We have touched on this in other parts of the debate. Equal status is given to Welsh and English throughout these consultations. I think that is very important, because it allows people to be able to advocate for their views in whichever language they are most comfortable with.

As the hon. Member for Ceredigion set out, the Boundary Commission for Wales already seriously considers Welsh language issues and links under the “local ties” factor. At the 2018 review, the boundary commission moved to designating all constituencies in Wales with English and Welsh names, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned. I can give some examples for the benefit of the Committee of how the boundary commission takes account of language.

During the 2018 review, a report by the assistant commissioners into the proposed constituency of Gwynedd noted that there was strong support for including four particular electoral wards in that constituency,

“because of the strong Welsh language, social and economic ties between that area and Gwynedd.”

[Interruption.] Did my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke wish to intervene?

Parliamentary Constituencies bill (Second sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 18th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Alec Shelbrooke]

Q Just as a quick point of principle, do you believe that voters in Scotland should have a greater representation than voters in Yorkshire, which has a similar population?

Geraint Day: This is coming down to the constituencies of the United Kingdom vis-à-vis the nations of the United Kingdom. This is one of the consequences of our current constitutional set-up, without a parliament for England, which Plaid Cymru is quite supportive of. The other option if you have equal levels of constituencies in the UK is a reduction in the representation of the Celtic countries of the United Kingdom. Certainly, we do not support the reduction in the number of MPs.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

Q Speaking as someone who cut his political teeth in Wales, actually in Ceredigion, the idea of language and culture is quite an important one. I am keen to understand and probe more into the language element. If we take Ceredigion as an example, when you have been faced with scenarios in previous consultations where there has been a crossover and, as in the example given before, there is a predominantly Welsh language community with one that is less so, how would Plaid Cymru engage with that process? What would be the thought process that you would go through in that scenario?

Geraint Day: Under the rules the Boundary Commission operates with, I can give an exact example from the last review. The Boundary Commission originally proposed putting Llandrindod in with Ceredigion. Llandrindod is in Powys on the other side of the Cambrian mountains from Ceredigion. That was a very strange decision. The argument on local links was that the main trunk road to Ceredigion goes right by Llandrindod. The subsequent argument that we put together, which I think was supported by every other contributor to the response, was that that should not be the case because the linguistic links and levels of Welsh speaking in Llandrindod are much different to those in Ceredigion. Instead, we proposed to look north into Machynlleth and the Dyffryn Dyfi area and take that into the proposed constituency of Ceredigion, which was subsequently adopted by the Boundary Commission.

That worked because there was unanimity of view among those giving comments to the Boundary Commission. Where you would find difficulty is where the different parties and individuals who give evidence differ in their approach. If one or two of the parties had said, “No, we want Llandrindod to go in,” we could have ended up with a very different end result from the Boundary Commission. If it had been required to consider the impact on the Welsh language right from the start, it would not even have made the initial proposal. That is the main reasoning behind it and that is where we come from.

[Shaun Bailey]

Q That is really helpful. In terms of the engagement of Welsh language communities in the process, historically, particularly in mid-Wales, we have seen quite high local election turnouts in Welsh language communities. I am conscious of the work Plaid has done in ensuring that those people who are in the Welsh language community are able to engage with the process, notwithstanding the provisions in the Welsh Language Act, to ensure that it is as representative as it can be for some quite unique communities.

Geraint Day: Absolutely. I pay credit to the Boundary Commission in the first instance; every time I have given evidence without simultaneous translation, it has been able to provide written evidence in Welsh or English. It works entirely bilingually, and it deserves credit for that.

Where it engages with the Welsh-speaking communities is around where it holds public hearings, which can be slightly awkward because of the number that it is restricted to. Having the ability to arrange more public hearings, without a cap, is one way around that. For example, in some of the constituencies along the north Wales coast, there are large population centres on the coast, but the Welsh-speaking communities tend to be in the island areas and the mountains. The public hearings, naturally enough, are held where the large population centres are. Getting rid of that cap and allowing people to interact with communities in more dispersed rural areas should be encouraged, whether it is done through public hearings or through more promotion of online submissions, which might be a way forward.

[The Chair]

There are no further questions from Members, so thank you very much, Geraint, for your evidence and for your time. We will move on to the next witness, whom I see waiting in the wings.

Examination of Witness

Professor Richard Wyn Jones gave evidence.

Parliamentary Constituencies bill (First sitting)

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Committee stage & Committee Debate: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Thursday 18th June 2020 Public Bill Committees

[Cat Smith]

Q If I may take a different line of questioning, obviously there are unique community issues in Northern Ireland, which we all understand. How would you take those into account when drawing boundaries? Does having a tight margin make that particularly difficult, in terms of percentage variance from the electoral quota?

Eamonn McConville: During our public consultations, people are free to put forward whatever local issues or local ties pertain to themselves and their local areas. The one thing that we cannot take into account—this applies across the UK, to all of the commissions—is anything that would affect or is influenced by electoral trends, electoral outcomes and things like that. Anything that would fall under a local tie is valid, in terms of what we would consider.

The second part of your question was on the electoral quota range. Again, as my colleagues have told you, the 5% presents issues in terms of accommodating local ties more roundly across Northern Ireland. As I said earlier to the Minister, we have the flexibility in rule 7 in terms of geographical limitations, because of the particular circumstances in Northern Ireland. It is interesting to note that the flexibility in the 2018 review would actually have come within the plus or minus 7.5% that has been discussed previously by other people. It is not a huge degree of flexibility, but it does allow us—when we are restricted in circumstances under rule 2—to have a certain degree of flexibility.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

Q It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. Northern Ireland underwent significant local government reform about five years ago, and the number of local authorities was reduced from 26 to 11. I wonder whether any lessons were gleaned from that experience. Could that work be cross-applied as the boundaries are reviewed here? Linking to the point about communities, what were the community considerations that came out of that, or were gleaned from any cross-discussions that you had?

Eamonn McConville: You are absolutely right that we now have the 11 local government areas, but we are working with different factors. In the last review, the 2018 review, we had 17 constituencies. While our considerations would have included trying to fit as many whole parts of local government areas into the 17 constituencies, the mathematics just do not allow for that, so we then take on board the other factors, which include local ties.

In Northern Ireland—it is similar across the UK—we have more major towns with satellite towns and villages around them. That is one thing that came to the fore in our consultation process, and we tried to accommodate that in our proposals as they went through the various consultation stages. There are similarities, but clear differences, simply because of the rules that we operate under.

[Shaun Bailey]

Q We have heard a lot from the Boundary Commission for England in particular about how it is difficult to drill down to that local level. When you were going through that overhaul, I suppose in a way it was a bit of a blank canvas. I am interested to understand this from a data point of view. How did you go about acquiring the data from people? Was it a similar mechanism to what we heard about, utilising postcodes, or were you using other datasets? I am conscious of the community element, but I am interested to hear how that operated in Northern Ireland.

Eamonn McConville: Do you mean for our initial proposals, or as the process progressed?

[Shaun Bailey]

Yes, for the initial proposals, but perhaps you could say if you were diverted as the process developed.

Eamonn McConville: We operate with exactly—or very close to—the same operational methods as the other commissions. We all operate under the same legislation, with the requirement to carry out the three public consultations. As my colleague Tony said, the initial proposals are our best estimate as to what would be a good starting point. From there, we seek public views and, if required, we amend to accommodate those within the factors that my colleagues mentioned previously—local ties, geographical features, existing constituency boundaries. It is a very similar process to that outlined by my colleagues.

[Chris Clarkson]

Q My points dovetail nicely with my colleague’s questions. We have been talking quite a bit about the necessity, or desirability, of ward splitting in England. Obviously, it is a slightly different situation in Northern Ireland because, in addition to wards, you have electoral areas. I want to understand what you use as the principal building blocks for drawing the new seats—is it electoral areas or wards? If it is electoral areas, at what stage do you start splitting those back down to constituent wards?

Eamonn McConville: Our building block is set out in the legislation as the local government ward that exists. In Northern Ireland, our electorate in each of those wards is smaller than, for example, in England. Tony spoke earlier of wards with 10,000. Ours typically have 2,000 to 3,000.

We still face the issue of how small we are geographically, plus having Lough Neagh right in the middle of Northern Ireland, so there are times when we are balancing all the factors. Consideration of splitting a ward does arise, but, like my colleague, there is no ready-made data set through which we could split a ward. We have to take that into account, whether by looking at geographical features or through another method. For the last review, we decided not to split any wards.

UK-EU Negotiations

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Tuesday 16th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Michael Gove]

That is the commitment to which the European Union has aligned itself in the political declaration, and we will hold it to that.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

Without repeating what many of my colleagues have said, businesses in the Black Country have one simple ask: they want clarity, and they want us to get this done. Will my right hon. Friend give a message to my businesses in Wednesbury, Oldbury and Tipton that rejecting an extension and getting this done, with the simple ask of a free trade agreement in line with what the EU has with every other country, will give them the clarity they deserve as we come out of these unprecedented times?

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend is right that in Wednesbury, Oldbury, Tipton and across the west midlands, businesses want certainty. That is what our announcements provide.

Oral Answers to Questions

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

Wednesday 10th June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

The UK Government condemn any action to restrict the freedom of expression of journalists, and have repeatedly raised the issue of internet restrictions and shutdowns at the highest level with the Myanmar Government, but, after going through due diligence, CDC invested in Frontiir to extend internet access to more people in Myanmar and to combat poverty. The company has followed the international Global Network Initiative standards by posting transparency statements so that users know whether the site has limitations upon it.

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

Wishing you a bostin’ birthday from the Black Country, Mr Speaker. I was recently lobbied by a year 12 student from Wednesbury called Queenie, who wanted to ensure that no one in the world cannot access a vaccine. So I wish to ask my right hon. Friend: in addition now to being the largest funder of Gavi, The Vaccine Alliance, what work is the UK doing and what message does she have for Queenie to ensure that she can carry on in her fight to make sure that everyone can access vaccines globally?

[Anne-Marie Trevelyan]

Queenie is clearly a wise young person, and it is a really important question. The UK is at the forefront of efforts to drive global collaboration and resourcing, including through our engagement through the access to covid tools accelerator and through industry for the development of new vaccines at the speed and scale required to ensure access for all those who will need them. As well as contributing £1.65 billion to fund Gavi’s core programme we have committed £48 million to its newly launched covax advanced market commitment, aimed at incentivising manufacturers to produce sufficient quantities of a potential vaccine to ensure future access for low-income and middle-income countries.

Parliamentary Constituencies Bill

Shaun Bailey Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion & Programme motion: House of Commons
Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Commons Chamber

[Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con)]

I start by echoing a point that the hon. Member for Glasgow East (David Linden) made about today’s proceedings and pay tribute to the House and parliamentary staff who ensured that we were able to do what we have done today. Whatever our views, they have done a fantastic job in ensuring that while we are back here, we can participate as we need to.

Equal-sized constituencies with one Member, one vote and all Members being equal has been a core tenet of our democracy for nearly 200 years. I am proud of the fact that the communities I represent were at the heart of that battle 200 years ago to ensure that every individual had their voice heard, no matter where they came from, how much money they had in their wallet or how much property they owned. The likes of the chartist council at Princes End, the chartist council in Wednesbury, John Wilkes from Tipton Green, Richard Cooper from Princes End, George Browning from Wednesbury, and later Black Country suffragettes such as Hilda Burkett and Emma Sproson led the fight to ensure that a working class lad from a council house, who was told that he would amount to nothing, can stand here today in this Parliament and represent those people’s descendants.

I want to ensure that that chartist and suffragette legacy is carried on. I am proud of the fact that in my constituency, community groups such as the WMA community centre in Tipton Green and Q3 Academy in Tipton ensure that our young people can continue to access democracy. I believe that the Bill honours that tradition. If we look at what it tries to resolve, we need to ask ourselves some fundamental questions.

Is it right that in town A, half as many people can vote for an MP as those in next-door town B? Is it right that the difference between the 20 smallest and the 20 largest constituencies in this country is 675,000, which I believe, looking at my right hon. Friend the Member for Elmet and Rothwell (Alec Shelbrooke), is about the size of the city of Leeds. Is it right that 27 million people are reportedly being under-represented because they live in constituencies where they are above the average threshold?

I am slightly confused by the Opposition’s position on this matter. My hon. Friends have touched on the history of the Labour party in trying to block this levelling up of our electoral system. The Minister mentioned the 1969 Labour Government’s attempt to block the independent boundary review, and in 1982 Labour tried to take things to the courts but failed. The hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) is not in his place, but he made the good point that common sense needs to be applied to this at all times. I totally agree on that, but I wish to address some of the comments the Labour party has made. For example, Labour Members say that this Bill is an Executive power grab, but the basis of this is an independent, judicial-led Boundary Commission; this is taken out of the power of the Executive and given to an independent body. In addition, this is primary legislation and Parliament can of course amend or abolish it at any time. It is a basic principle of our parliamentary democracy that we, as Members, can do that if we need to, so I must disagree with the Labour party on that point.

I am conscious of the time and I wish to allow colleagues to speak, so I will just make the point that the last time the boundaries in my constituency were amended I was five years old. A lot has changed since then. Many of us have changed, with some probably changing more than others. It is time that we get this done. I say to right hon. and hon. Members from across this Chamber that if we truly believe that everyone’s vote is equal and we truly believe in ensuring that our democracy continues to grow and thrive, we must pass this legislation.