School Meals: Hull

Debate between Sharon Hodgson and Diana Johnson

Wednesday 22nd January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

It is very nice to see you back in your place, Mr Deputy Speaker. I convey my thanks to Mr Speaker for allowing this debate, and it is very good to see the Minister in her place.

I requested this debate to talk about primary school meals and their cost in Kingston upon Hull. I am sure that the Minister will have been told by her civil servants that Hull has had a reputation over many years of taking forward pioneering policies on school food, thanks to councillors such as Colin Inglis and Mary Glew. For a period, Hull had free school meals in all primary and special schools and, in more recent times, it has had a very well supported, low-cost school meals policy, even though most of our primary schools are academies. However, some of those schools have now increased the price of school meals by 200% in the last year. My debate seeks answers on academy accountability and how councils can influence academies’ decision making under the current legal framework.

It will be useful to give a bit of background. Hull is one of the most deprived cities in the country. Twenty years ago, we needed to up our game in terms of educational achievement. While huge improvements had been made, more needed to be done. In the 2003 local elections, Hull Labour campaigned on the connection between good nutrition and educational achievement and on the fact that in order to learn effectively, children must be well nourished. The vision was summed up in four simple words: “Eat Well Do Well”.

Labour believed passionately that by introducing a free, healthy school meal it could break the vicious cycle of educational underachievement, greater welfare dependency with limited life chances, and the subsequent poor health in later years at a great cost to the NHS, and that that could all be linked back to poor nutrition in childhood. Labour won the election and set about turning its manifesto pledge into reality, showing the power that progressive local government can have to help to change lives. The council was adamant that the cost of providing universal free school meals would not lead to cuts elsewhere. It believed that by not taking decisive action to tackle the city’s inequalities, the council would be failing in its responsibilities.

Research has also shown a clear correlation between a healthy diet and improved school performance, attainment, self-esteem and behaviour, and, in the case of breakfast clubs, better attendance and punctuality. It could therefore be argued that the cost of the scheme was a very good investment for the far-reaching and long-term benefit of the health of future generations in Hull.

An evaluation of the Eat Well Do Well programme by Professor Derek Colquhoun at the University of Hull found headteachers to be delighted with the success of the scheme in creating calmer learning environments in which children had the opportunity to reach their potential. For its three-year duration, the programme was the envy of local authorities across the country. It displayed long-term vision and ambition, using the buying power and economies of scale of the local authority to invest in the future of Hull’s children and families.

In addition to tackling food poverty and childhood obesity, the pioneering initiative aimed also to eradicate the social stigma attached to the current free school meals system and ease the bureaucracy of means-testing. It also promoted good practice for parents in making healthier hot food attractive to children—more attractive than cold packed lunches, which were often of poor nutritional value.

[Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent speech on a very important subject. On the nutritional value of packed lunches, I am sure she is aware that studies have found that only 2% of packed lunches meet the standards required of food provided in schools. In every way, we should want our children to be eating the food in schools, rather than bringing in packed lunches that, with the best will in the world, are unhealthy. Does she agree?

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I pay tribute to the amazing work that my hon. Friend has done over the years on school food and free school meals in particular. I absolutely agree with her.

It is worth reflecting that in Hull 23% of primary school children claim free school meals, yet Hull City Council has estimated that as many as 800 pupils entitled to free school meals are not claiming them, and we know that many thousands across the country do not take up their entitlements, largely due to parental fears of social isolation or bullying. In addition, thousands of children classed as living in poverty or just above the poverty line but not entitled to free school meals could access Hull City Council’s Eat Well Do Well scheme.

Sadly, the scheme came to an end in the summer of 2007 after the Liberal Democrats took control of Hull City Council and reintroduced charges of £1 per meal. At a time when budgets were not under pressure, Hull’s Liberal Democrats decided to scrap the progressive measure for what I can only consider ideological reasons.

Following on from the undoubted success of Hull’s Eat Well Do Well scheme, two events followed. First, I remember sitting on the Front Bench 10 years ago as an Education Minister in the last Labour Government, and one of the things I was responsible for was helping to set up the free school meals pilots in Durham, Newham and Wolverhampton to get further evidence of the link between nutrition and educational attainment through free school meals. To this day, Newham still provides free school meals.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dame Diana Johnson]

I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. I pay tribute to her work on social justice and the idea that people ought to have opportunities in their lives and that children should get the support they need in those early years.

A second point came out of the Hull scheme. When the Liberal Democrats got back into power nationally, after a very long time, as part of the coalition Government, they, learning from the experience in Hull—ironically—pushed through free school meals for the earliest years in primary schools, so we now have that from five or seven. When Labour returned to power on the council in 2011, we managed to reduce the price of a school meal to 50p—down from the £1 as set by the Liberal Democrats. That was thanks to an agreement from both the schools and the council.

I see this as a modern-day social contract. The subsidy of 80p per meal was provided by the council: 50p from the public health grant, and 30p from Hull City Council’s general fund resources. The council has been subsidising the school meals of children aged between seven and 11, and I do not think that any other local authority has been doing that very specific job. Again, Councillor Inglis was instrumental in making both the educational and public health cases for reducing the cost of school meals. The cost has remained at 50p, well below the rates of surrounding local authorities, for some years. Although the Eat Well Do Well scheme has ended, Hull has achieved a low-cost school meal and a partnership between our city’s schools and the council for so long, and in the face of national austerity that resulted in massive and unfair cuts in the council’s funding.

I understand that the threshold for free school meals has not risen for 14 years from a family income of about £17,000, so many more working poor families will not be eligible. The scheme that Hull City Council entered into with its academies was of particular benefit to them.

That brings me to why I initiated this debate, and to what has happened over the last 12 months. In January 2019 the price of a school meal in Hull, which had been 50p, doubled to £1 after academy heads decided to reduce their schools’ contributions to the subsidy funding agreement. I understand that that was agreed at a meeting of the Hull Association of Primary Head Teachers. I appreciate that school budgets have been under enormous pressure, and that difficult decisions have to be made. According to a report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, schools and colleges in England have suffered the biggest fall in funding since the 1970s, and the funding shortfall for Kingston upon Hull in 2020 is £12.5 million. Nevertheless, Hull City Council, which was also under financial pressure, continued its subsidy at the same rate. But in January 2020—this month—the Hull Association of Primary Head Teachers again reduced the money for school meals, so the price has gone up to £1.50 per meal, and plans are being made for it to increase to the full cost of £2.30 later this year.

What has actually happened, however, is not a uniform increase. There is now a postcode lottery in Hull, and the charge depends on which school a child attends. Oldfield Primary School has stuck to 50p, and it is great that it has managed to do so. The co-operative learning trust, with seven primary schools, has not raised its price from £1, but many other schools now charge £1.50. Councillor Peter Clark, the current holder of the education portfolio, said that he did not support the price increases, but the council has no formal powers to affect the decisions that academies make. However, I think that there is a socialist moral case, and a one nation case, for this policy. The art of politics is at least trying to influence events on behalf of the communities that elect us. It is also unclear what has been agreed about continuing to pay a subsidy to schools that then go on to charge the full cost of a meal, and do not use that subsidy for its intended purpose.

This is extremely disappointing, as Hull’s strong reputation for supporting healthy, low-priced school meals cannot simply be abandoned. For me, politics is about standing up when something is not right, rolling up my sleeves and fighting to challenge it. I strongly believe that the benefits of access to low-cost, nutritious food to children in Hull cannot be overstated. These price hikes will mean that those “just managing” working families will be under even more financial pressure, and children may miss out on good nutritious food that helps them to succeed at school and grow up as healthily as possible.

I know that there are many in Hull City Council, and in the academy trusts, who want to do what is in the best interests of children and families in Hull, but who are constrained from doing so. With the academies, the problem seems to be that, owing to a silo-like structure, they can focus only on short-term targets, with too little reference to the needs of the wider community. As a result, academy schools that were meant to innovate are undoing the gains of past innovation in school food, in which respect Hull has of course been leading the way.

There are a number of issues that I would like to raise with the Minister directly. First, local authorities are under a duty to improve the health of their local population, as set out in the Health and Social Care Act 2012. Despite the huge change in the educational landscape, councils are also required to be champions of educational excellence for all children and young people. But how can these two requirements work when there is no accountability flowing from the academies in Hull to the council and the wider community? Is there a place for a review of this relationship?

Secondly, there appears to be no clear requirement or mechanism for co-operation. From a public health perspective, the council has a clear role in dealing with the consequences of health inequalities and mortality, so what does the Minister have to say about the role of education establishments and institutions in co-operating on these public health requirements? Thirdly, there are no formal provisions for a local authority to challenge public decisions from schools on issues such as school meal prices. Accountability is limited to Ofsted, the regional schools commissioner and the Department for Education, and seems to relate only to poor performance. How does this help when all parties want to work positively together to improve health and educational attainment? Should there be an enhanced scrutiny role for the council, for example? In Hull, I do not think that the scrutiny committee looked at what was happening around the arrangements with school food, because it said that it had no powers to do anything about it.

[Mrs Hodgson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. She has been very generous, although she could go on until 7 o’clock if she wanted to detain the House for that long. She mentioned public health, and that reminded me of the pilots, which she also mentioned, in Newham, Wolverhampton and Durham. The funding for those pilots came from the then Education Secretary and the then Health Secretary, the former Members for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle and for Normanton. They got together and jointly funded the pilots from Education and Health for the very reason that it should not have been only Education that paid for them, because there were going to be huge health benefits as well. My hon. Friend is making a point about local government, but does she agree that this could equally be something for the Department of Health to look at under the public health budget?

[Dame Diana Johnson]

Yes, absolutely. What I have been trying to say in my speech is that there is a link between education and public health, and that at the moment it is clear that they are completely separate. I am trying to bring them together to work collaboratively. I am also grateful for being reminded that, because the previous business went down early, we have until 7 o’clock to debate this issue. I notice that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) is in his place, and I know that he usually intervenes in Adjournment debates, so I would be happy to give way to him as well.

No-deal EU Exit: Public Sector Catering

Debate between Sharon Hodgson and Diana Johnson

Tuesday 5th March 2019 Westminster Hall

[Mrs Hodgson]

I totally agree with my hon. Friend, and I will touch on the issue he raises later in my contribution. This morning, I sat on a no-deal Delegated Legislation Committee with my shadow Public Health Minister hat on. In that Committee Room, we were talking about the very issues my hon. Friend raises in respect of a no-deal Brexit. The Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, the hon. Member for Winchester (Steve Brine), assured me that our chicken will still be washed in drinking water and not in any form of chlorine. However, my hon. Friend’s worry is very much taken on board, given that the money will not be there and costs will be cut to the bone—no pun intended.

In the event of a no-deal Brexit, the prices of raw materials and commodities will go up, but who will absorb the price increases? Social care providers, particularly those with a majority of local authority-funded residents, will not have the capability to accept increased catering costs. Will the Government therefore increase the budgets for public sector catering to cover the shortfall?

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I apologise for being slightly late for the beginning of the debate, and I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing it. In my city of Hull, there has been an attempt to keep school meal prices as low as possible—50p, rather than the normal £2-odd. What concerns me is that there is already pressure on that budget. It has already gone up to £1 because of school budget pressures. What does she think about the fact that there is a public health initiative to try to ensure that children are eating healthily and well, yet the cost may go up even more due to what she has described in her contribution?

[Mrs Hodgson]

That is the worry. As Bidfood worked out, the cost will have to go up by 69p a child just to stand still. In areas that are trying to keep the price as low as possible, that initiative disappears, but in other areas that are already paying £2.30 or £2.40, what will happen? Parents cannot afford to pay much more than that, so the quality of the food, children’s health and the health of the 10.5 million people who rely on this food every day will suffer as a consequence.

If the Government do not cover the shortfall, menus may have to be reduced so that providers do not overspend. As my hon. Friend has just said, that will compromise the nutritional value of the meals given to service users. An increase in the costs of public sector meals could therefore see an increase in poverty, childhood obesity and malnutrition in hospitals and care homes, which could have serious implications for the health and wellbeing of service users.

The affordability of food post Brexit, especially in the event of no deal, is an incredibly alarming issue. That is the case for all our constituents, but even more so for those who rely on public sector catering for their food. General food shortages due to panic buying or an impact on deliveries due to fuel shortages are of particular concern, especially for public sector catering in hospitals and care homes. The Government should communicate openly and factually about the food challenges ahead and encourage the food industry, caterers, institutions and organisations to do so too.

One person wrote to me to say that the Government had given them

“no real guidance, other than to stockpile food”.

One local authority caterer told Food for Life that it had invested more than £1 million in stockpiling ingredients, including 250 tonnes of meat. However, the caterer is concerned, as that food will only last for a short period. Not every caterer has the capacity to stockpile food. What advice have the Government given to suppliers and caterers? Is advice being updated clearly and regularly?

The Federation of Wholesale Distributors has expressed concern about the continuity of food supplies to schools and hospitals in the event of a no-deal Brexit. It has suggested that food supplies should be triaged and prioritised for those most in need, but that could happen only with Government intervention. Is that something the Minister has considered? Concerns have also been raised with me about products being diverted to more lucrative customers, rather than being prioritised for vulnerable people. Will the Minister address that point too?

The Civil Contingencies Act 2004 does not deal directly with food—probably nobody ever thought that we would be in this position—and nor does it identify responsible agencies with a food remit. Has the Minister had any conversations with his Government colleagues about including food in the 2004 Act, particularly for vulnerable people?

The meals distributed in schools, universities, hospitals, care homes and prisons each day are crucial to those who eat them. Caterers are already beginning to remove higher quality produce from menus, with some school caterers considering a move from hot food to cold meals. That could result in a reduction in the nutritional value of meals, which would be detrimental to children or to service users in the case of the other provisions.

Social Care (Local Sufficiency) and Identification of Carers Bill

Debate between Sharon Hodgson and Diana Johnson

Friday 7th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Hodgson]

I totally agree. Those organisations are out there doing good work, but often they still need guidance, and legislation can often be at the root of that and can really help to ensure that they are funded, rather than having to scrabble around for money left, right and centre.

[Diana Johnson]

I would like to draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the carers’ centre in Hull, which is led by Greg Harman. Unfortunately, it recently lost its funding, so it will now become part of the NHS and carers’ services will be provided through the local social community organisation we have set up. The organisation did a huge amount to support carers in Hull, and I know that over many years they saved lives, because people were desperate when they got to the carers’ centre and the support they were given was incredible.

[Mrs Hodgson]

That is exactly the point. We know that provision is patchy across the country. Where it is good, it is very good; but where there are gaps, that can lead to tragedy, which none of us wants to see ever again.

The first of the two cases I want to highlight is that of a middle-aged male carer who gave up his full-time job to look after his wife, who has multiple sclerosis. He encountered many health professionals because of his wife’s illness, but his caring role was never acknowledged; it was always about her needs, and rightly so. Because of the lack of recognition from professionals, he struggled on his own for three years without any real support, never realising that he should have had it. By chance he saw an advert inviting people to take part in Sunderland Carers’ “Caring with Confidence” programme, which was a major turning point in his life. He was able to access practical support such as getting adaptations for his home to make the physical aspect of caring for his wife easier. Lifting and carrying someone can have serious implications for a carer’s own health. People have to be trained in how to lift people in a caring environment; it cannot be done automatically without potentially causing injuries. He could access short break services that gave him brief respite from his 24/7 caring role. This allowed him to take a holiday with his wife, with the extra support regarding the physical aspect of caring for her that made it a genuine holiday for both of them as a couple. He also gained a lot of support from meeting other carers, combating the isolation that he was feeling.

Finding Sunderland Carers changed that man’s life in almost as dramatic a way as becoming a carer had in the first place. However, we should be concerned about the fact that he could still be struggling out there on his own had he not seen the advert. All the professionals he saw could have signposted him towards that support but, for whatever reason, they did not. Whether it was because they did not know about the support available or did not think it was their job to tell him about it, I do not know. They could have helped him before he was forced to quit his job, which as well as cutting his social ties meant that the couple were in effect living on the breadline. That is why this Bill is so important.

A vital part of the Bill is about the identification of school-age and young adult carers. Caring can be tough at any stage of life, but for a child or a young person it not only impacts on their ability to enjoy the same kind of childhood as their peers but can define how the rest of their life will pan out. The figures are stark. Research by the BBC in 2010 suggested that there were as many as 700,000 young carers in the UK—about one in 12 of secondary school pupils. Further research says that there are almost 300,000 aged between 16 and 24, more than 61,000 of whom are 16 or 17, with one in five providing more than 20 hours a week of care. As I mentioned earlier, one of those 16-year-olds is my daughter’s best friend, so I have first-hand knowledge of the impact that this can have on a young person’s life. There are more than 220,000 young people aged between 18 and 24, and carers make up more than one in 20 people in that age group. That means that one in 20 of the 18 to 24-year-olds we come across is a young carer.

The situations that these young people are placed in and the demands that are made on them will vary greatly, but I want to give one example, again given to me by Sunderland Carers, to show the impact of caring on children’s lives and how much receiving the right support can help them. The example is that of two children who went to live with their grandparents at a young age because their mother was unable to care for them. The arrangement worked very well for a number of years. The children were thriving at school, had plenty of friends and took part in a number of other activities. But as time passed their grandparents grew older and their health and mobility suffered. They did not ask for help because they feared losing custody of their grandchildren. The children could not get out and about due to lack of transport, and this left the grandparents struggling to entertain them. As things progressed, the grandparents struggled to get the children to school, especially in poor winter weather conditions, because the grandfather relied on a mobility scooter, and occasionally he could not get them there at all. This affected their attendance, and even when they were at school they were often distracted because they were so worried about their grandparents’ health.

Thankfully, the school eventually recognised the children as being young carers and was able to get the family the support that they needed. A common assessment framework was put in place and a team was developed around the family. The children were then able to take part in activities that allowed them to get out and have a normal childhood and meet other young carers. Also, while they were out, the grandparents were able to get some much-needed rest, which meant they had more energy when the children were at home. The school transport problem was resolved, and now the children have a 100% attendance record. I have no doubt that they will still face challenges as they grow up, but now they have been identified as carers they should get the right support to help them to cope, and eventually to get qualifications and careers and to develop normal, fulfilling adult lives.

[Mrs Hodgson]

Exactly. Unfortunately, as my hon. Friend has said, many children are under the radar—some in even worse situations—and they will not be as lucky as those who have been identified. That is true of all school-age children, but it is arguably more true of young adults in further and higher education, who have less time with tutors or teachers who would be able to spot the obvious signs. That is what clauses 5 and 6 seek to address, which is why the Bill is so important and should be considered seriously. I hope the Minister will do that.

Teachers and educational institutions are not alone in their ability to identify young and young adult carers. I served on the Children, Schools and Families Committee in 2008 when we considered the issue of young carers, specifically children who are under the radar. I asked why GPs in particular were not more proactive in identifying such children, because it is a common-sense deduction that a parent with certain health conditions who is not receiving support from professionals or a spouse is probably relying on their children. The answer from Dr Jo Aldridge of Loughborough university was that GPs—and, for that matter, psychiatrists treating those with mental health issues—generally did not see such things as part of their job description. Clause 4 would take the long overdue step of making it part of their job description, which would be of particular benefit to young and young adult carers, as well as to all other unidentified carers. That is why the Bill is so important.

In conclusion, we want and need carers to provide care, because it saves the Government billions. Carers, by and large, want to continue to provide care, because they love the individual they are caring for, but the Government need to support them in doing so. Ignoring the needs of carers is simply not sustainable, because it leads inevitably to crisis; to a loss of expertise from the work force and of income tax for the Treasury; to, most importantly, children and young adults missing out on the opportunities available to them; and to poor educational outcomes, so it harms the life chances of those children who just want to look after their loved ones. That cannot be right, which is why the Bill is so important. I know that it will not progress today—the Minister has said as much—but I hope that he will pick up on the key measures that we have highlighted that are not in the draft Care and Support Bill and incorporate them into it, so that we can help carers of all ages with the best possible legislation.

[Diana Johnson]

I know that my hon. Friend is about to finish, but, given her experience in education, does she think that, considering the range of schools that are now available, such as free schools and academies, the Bill goes far enough? Should the duty be extended and placed on those new types of school as well?

[Mrs Hodgson]

Yes, and I hope the Minister will talk about this with his colleagues in other Departments. He said earlier that there is a lot of crossover with a couple of other Departments. He also gave a commitment to my hon. Friend the Member for Worsley and Eccles South to carry out a consultation and involve her in the next stages. I hope that he will look at all of the areas that need to be consulted and legislated on, and that require buy-in from other Departments, such as Education. I also hope that he will look at how academies and free schools, which are answerable totally to the Secretary of State, can be incorporated into the proposals, because they will not be answerable to their local authorities, which may lead on some of this work when it becomes a reality. I hope that this debate will not have been in vain and that some of the vital things that we have discussed will find their way into the Bill on care and support.