Oral Answers to Questions
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(2 years, 11 months ago)
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Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con)
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
Chris Philp
My hon. Friend has been a tireless advocate for a Nightingale court in Kent. My colleague Lord Wolfson is working very actively on that question and I strongly hope we will be in a position to make a positive announcement in the very near future.
Seema Malhotra
The employment tribunal backlog stands at a staggering 51,000, which is 45% higher than pre-pandemic levels. The Minister will blame that on covid, but he knows the system was broken before, with cuts made by his Department. Now, as we see multiple employment claims shooting up and some employers using covid as a cover for fire and rehire or cutting people’s employment rights, we have a tribunal system that is unable to cope. Labour warned about this and called for a package of urgent measures. When will the Minister finally step up and take responsibility for the backlog of cases?
Chris Philp
In common with so many other areas of the justice system employment tribunals were profoundly affected by coronavirus, but we have taken decisive action. The number of employment tribunal sitting days is being increased dramatically, and the tribunal is benefiting from the 1,600 extra staff hired across Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service and from the enormous investment in technology, which is enabling across the court system, including the tribunal, 20,000 remote hearings a week. Those are the actions we are taking to address the issue the hon. Lady raises.
Oral Answers to Questions
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(3 years, 4 months ago)
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Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con)
Chris Philp
As the hon. Gentleman says, 16 nightingale courts are up and running, and the Ministry of Justice has secured a total of just over £110 million in additional funding from the Treasury, to support not just those nightingale courts, but many others as well. We intend to open further nightingale courts in the future. I am glad that the hon. Gentleman welcomes the use of the Lowry theatre—we all do—and as I said, up to 260 Crown Court jury rooms are now open and operational, which is more than we had before the pandemic.
Seema Malhotra
The backlog for individual cases in employment tribunals has already passed the post-2008 financial crisis record, with 37,000 workers in the queue. Analysis by Citizens Advice suggests that if that continues to grow at the current rate, the number of outstanding claims could pass 500,000 by spring. When will the Minister take action at the scale necessary, and stop the Chancellor’s jobs crisis becoming a justice crisis, by targeting much needed support to employment tribunals?
Chris Philp
As I said, we are putting a great deal of extra resources into the justice system, including employment tribunals, to ensure that we recover from coronavirus. There is £110 million in total extra this year, and a further 1,600 staff of Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service across the entire system. The hon. Lady mentions employment tribunals, and I am pleased to report to the House that since the beginning of October, disposal rates in the employment tribunals have been running at 740 a week. That is higher than the level of disposals pre-pandemic, which was 718 a week. We hope and expect that that recovery will continue.
Terrorist Offenders (Restriction of Early Release) Bill
Seema Malhotra ExcerptsWednesday 12th February 2020
(4 years, 2 months ago)
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Robert Buckland
My right hon. Friend speaks with considerable experience, as we worked together on the Bill that became the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, which rightly struck the balance between the need to protect the public and the need to make sure that the rule of law was respected.
That gives me a chance to warm to a theme that I make no apology—
Robert Buckland
I will give way in a moment. I am warming to a theme—let me warm!
The theme is this: in our fight against terrorism—in our determination to protect the public against those who spread hate, division, death and injury, irrespective of what might motivate them, because we know that we have a cohort of different types of terrorist—we are defending something of value. We are defending a democratic, free society. We are defending the rule of law. We are defending the values of this place and, indeed, the values of all the people we have the honour and privilege of representing. That is something worth defending. By using due process, we mark ourselves out as distinct from, better than and different from those who seek to divide us.
Robert Buckland
I can assure my hon. Friend that all the usual processes were followed. I am not going to go into the weeds of what the Law Officers might have said. We know that they have a particular function when it comes to the necessary clearances for the introduction of a Bill. I can assure him that those processes have been followed and that the issues that he rightly outlines—and, indeed, presages through his amendments—are very much uppermost in our considerations.
Seema Malhotra
Recent events have indeed shown the need for a review through this legislation, which I certainly support, and which has the appropriate safeguards and implementation measures that will be debated today.
The Lord Chancellor made a point about the victims. Somebody who had done work experience in my office was a witness on that day as they were working at Fishmongers’ Hall. The impact not just on those who were injured or killed, but on those who were there and their families, has been tremendous, and continues.
The provisions in the Bill change the release point for offenders who have committed a relevant terrorism offence and refer those offenders to the Parole Board at the two-thirds point of the sentence. I think we can understand and acknowledge that the resources available to the police and probation are also a critical part of this. A change in legislation will not be enough. Is the Lord Chancellor also committed to making sure that the resources required through the justice system will be in place to make any change effective on the ground?
Robert Buckland
Indeed, I pay tribute to everybody who was not only involved with but witnessed those awful events at Fishmongers’ Hall.
The hon. Lady and I served together on the Justice Committee for some time, and I know that she has a long-term interest in these issues. She is right to ask about resources. Some weeks ago, when it was announced that we would be introducing a counter-terrorism Bill, extra resources of £90 million for counter-terrorism activity were announced, additional to the overall package of £900 million of support for counter-terrorism. With regard to what we are doing with probation and the interventions that she referred to, again we announced extra resources, with a doubling in the number of specialist probation officers and the introduction of more expert psychiatric and imam involvement. She can rest assured that whatever resources are needed in order to deal with this issue, we will devote them to this particular line of important, intensive work.
Domestic Abuse Bill
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(4 years, 6 months ago)
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Carolyn Harris
I do agree. I also join my hon. Friend in congratulating those organisations. I have yet to meet an organisation that deals with this issue that has not done excellent work, and all struggle for every penny they are able to get from wherever. They truly deserve our praise.
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
My hon. Friend is making an important and powerful speech. Does she believe that the Bill will do enough to support the role of schools in the lives of families? I know the amount of work that goes on in many schools in my constituency to support parents and children when there is domestic abuse at home. One primary school has told me that it suspects about five children in one class are subject to domestic violence.
Carolyn Harris
My hon. Friend is absolutely right and later I will talk about a scheme that helps in that situation.
The protection and provision of support for children who experience domestic abuse—I am repeating myself. I have already read that bit, so we will scrap that, thank you very much. [Laughter.] That is the Welsh in me; never ashamed to say when we are wrong.
As well as ensuring access to support services, the Bill needs to legislate for those children and ensure protected places in all NHS waiting lists, as well as priority access to school places when they are forced to move to a new area to escape domestic abuse. There is already good practice in our communities that has been established to cater for the needs of children experiencing domestic abuse.
Feltham A Young Offenders Institution
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(4 years, 9 months ago)
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Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice if he will make a statement on Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prison’s recent invoking of the urgent notification process for Feltham A young offenders institution.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Edward Argar)
At the outset, I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for South West Hertfordshire (Mr Gauke), who I gather has recently tendered his resignation as Secretary of State for Justice. I hope that you will allow me to answer in his place, Madam Deputy Speaker.
I am grateful to the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra) for tabling this urgent question and for the opportunity to respond on an important subject. I am also grateful to Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons for its work and the scrutiny its inspections provide. I take the safety of all the young people in our custody very seriously, and clearly the urgent notification letter for Feltham A does not make comfortable reading. It is clearly a deeply disappointing and concerning report. Despite the significant efforts of staff at Feltham A, to whom I pay tribute, and the significant support and resources put in by the youth custody service and the Ministry of Justice, it is clear that serious underlying challenges remain. I have been clear that progress to address these issues needs to be swifter to deliver the safe environment that we all wish to see and that, as recent reports acknowledge, we do see in other parts of the youth custodial estate.
In addition to work already under way, we have taken a series of immediate steps, including placing an immediate temporary stop on new placements of young people into Feltham A, alongside additional resources and support for staff. The governor is still relatively new in post and is working hard to drive improvements in an establishment that has one of the highest and most concentrated proportions of violent offenders in the country. She and her team are dedicated to turning Feltham A around, and we will continue to support them in doing that. As required by the urgent notification process, we will formally respond with an action plan within the required 28 days.
Seema Malhotra
I thank the Minister for his response and for notifying me of the letter yesterday.
Feltham young offenders institution was a prison left without a governor for five months last year, and the findings of the recently announced inspection have been distressing for the staff and all those involved with Feltham. There was talk of a dramatic decline in safety, which is a matter of great concern for us all. I extend my thanks to the POA trade union and the staff and management, who have been working at that prison in very difficult circumstances.
The problems at Feltham are long standing and the current situation should have been avoidable. The Government have much to answer for regarding why the decline has been so fast, with a steep rise in violence against staff, allegations of assault and levels of self-harm. The Government desperately need to get to grip with the causes of the rapid decline and to support the staff and inmates in turning the situation around. Given that we are talking about children—140 boys aged 15 to 17 are being held at Feltham A in the care of the state—will the Minister update us on why Feltham was left without a governor for five months last year, what the impact has been, and what assessment he has made of the root causes of the steep decline in performance?
The Minister says he has supplied resources, but why does he believe they have not been sufficient? What additional skilled resources does he intend to provide to support the staff and management to address the culture and behaviour management issues that are so significant? What support is there for those young people living in great distress at Feltham young offenders institution? How fit for purpose does he consider Feltham to be, how quickly does he plan to produce his action plan, and how will he keep Parliament and me informed, particularly over the recess?
Edward Argar
I am as ever grateful to the hon. Lady. As she mentioned, I spoke to her yesterday, and we met again this morning. I am grateful for her typically measured tone, not seeking to score points but focusing on what needs to be done to improve the outcomes for young people at Feltham. I know her constituents will be grateful to her as well.
The hon. Lady raised a number of issues that I will address in turn. Her first point was about the gap—the interregnum—between governors. She is right that there was a gap. The previous governor was promoted to a prison group director role and the recruitment process took longer than anyone would have wished. One of the key reasons was that the governor, who has now been appointed, had to serve a notice period in her previous role. The view taken was that she was the right governor to do this job and that therefore it was appropriate to wait. She served her notice and is now in post. I emphasise that I have confidence in her. I believe that she and her team are doing a difficult job very well, as the hon. Lady alluded to. I recognise the constructive and positive relationship between the local branch of the POA and the governor and her team, and I thank them in the same way.
On the root causes, there are a number of challenges at Feltham. As I said, it has a very high concentration of very violent and challenging young people. At present, I believe, there are 110 young offenders in Feltham A, which has an operational capacity of 180. There is, therefore, significant headroom to give the staff greater opportunity to tackle the violence and the underlying challenges faced by those young people. The hon. Lady will be aware, because we met to discuss it earlier in the year, of the violence in April and of the incidents of assaults on other prisoners and on staff. There were a large number of incidents of self-harm and violence but a small number of perpetrators. We have some very challenging individuals.
The hon. Lady was right to mention resources and the need for skilled resource. There has been a 31% uplift in the budget for Feltham A, with £3.5 million going in, and it has an opportunity to draw down further moneys from a second £5 million pot across the youth custodial estate. There are also 90 more staff across Feltham. The experience mix and band mix are broadly the same as they have been over time, but the hon. Lady was right to allude to the importance of experienced staff. We are bringing in extra senior and mid-level experienced resource to help drive change, both at the top level and to support those staff. I believe that seven senior staff have already been seconded, and there will be further changes in the coming days. Andrew Dickinson, the governor of Wetherby, is also taking on a role in supporting Emily, the prison governor. It will be a mentoring role, but he will also play a key role in monitoring the action plan. His institution got a good inspection report and we want to learn the lessons from that.
The hon. Lady raised two other points, which I will address swiftly. On fitness for purpose, current Government policy is to move away from the existing youth offender institution model and towards a secure schools model. Like the Minister who spoke before me at this Dispatch Box, I will not bind a future Government, but that is the current policy. In terms of keeping this House updated, I anticipate that the action plan will be ready within 28 days. I or my successor will write to the hon. Lady and the shadow Secretary of State when it is ready, so that they are kept informed, and we will continue to keep the hon. Lady, as the local Member of Parliament, informed throughout the action plan process.
Oral Answers to Questions
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(5 years ago)
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Edward Argar
We work very closely with youth offending teams and youth offending services run by local authorities to help with that prevention. I pay tribute particularly to the team in Lewisham, whom I was lucky enough to visit the other day. We also work closely with the Department for Education on exclusions and the role they can play in causing offending behaviour.
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
Feltham young offenders institution has had a difficult recent history and problems with sustainability of management. Following the recent attack on prison officers, I am grateful to the Minister for how quickly the management, the Prison Officers Association and the Department responded.
It is increasingly clear that the growing violence to which young inmates are subject, and which they experience prior to prison, is presenting new challenges. Will the Minister join me in welcoming new projects that use sport—such as Tough Cricket in Feltham, which works with faith communities—to support young offenders in more positive activity and help to develop an alternative set of values?
Edward Argar
I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her work following the incidents of violence that she has mentioned. Once again, I thank the Prison Officers Association for its constructive engagement, and our thoughts are with the welfare of the injured staff. She is absolutely right to highlight the importance of sport as one of the positive ways we can divert young people away from violence and offending behaviour.
Oral Answers to Questions
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(5 years, 6 months ago)
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Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State is correct to say that it is through employment that we often have the best chance to reduce and stop reoffending. What discussions has he had with his counterpart in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy about mainstreaming incentives to employee ex-offenders in apprenticeship and internship strategies?
Mr Gauke
We work across government on this matter and are considering a number of proposals across government, including with BEIS, on how we can encourage employers in this area, including on apprenticeships. Let me make a point I have made before: employers are increasingly looking at employing ex-offenders. We should all welcome that, and I would be supportive of any constructive steps to progress this.
Solitary Confinement (Children and Young People)
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(5 years, 12 months ago)
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Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
I beg to move,
That this House has considered use of solitary confinement for children and young people in the justice system.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone. I thank the Speaker’s Office for granting this debate. I thank the Minister for coming to respond and all Members who have joined me for this discussion. May I also put on record my appreciation for the British Medical Association, the Howard League for Penal Reform, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health for their tireless campaigning on human rights in the context of healthcare?
Two weeks ago I hosted a roundtable in Parliament with the BMA, the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health. They have issued a joint call for solitary confinement to be banned for children who are locked up in the UK. That call is based on evidence of harm, and they have urged the Government to act. Importantly, they have also produced guidance to help improve care for those segregated by prison officers until any ban is in place. The roundtable was attended by peers and MPs, including my hon. Friends the Members for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury), for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) and for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green).
In response to a written parliamentary question that I tabled in January, the Government said:
“We do not use solitary confinement. Young people can be removed from association under careful control where they will not be permitted to associate with other young people.”
The Minister repeated last Friday that the UK does not use solitary confinement. Solitary confinement is defined under international human rights law as
“the confinement of prisoners for 22 hours or more a day without meaningful human contact.”
Many I have talked to have said they are not clear on the distinction between solitary confinement and removal from association. Indeed, YoungMinds says that regardless of the term,
“we consider any individual who is physically isolated and deprived of meaningful contact with others for a prolonged period of time to be in solitary confinement.”
John Howell (Henley) (Con)
Given what the hon. Lady has said about the definitions of solitary confinement, it would be helpful to know how many people she thinks are trapped in the solitary confinement system, so that we can get a feel for how big the problem is.
Seema Malhotra
I will come on to that point. One point I will make is about the inadequate collection of data. What information we receive comes partly through the lens of healthcare providers and charities that are taking calls from prisoners in distress.
To continue the point I was making, I should be grateful if the Minister would clarify the substantive difference between the international definition of solitary confinement and the Government’s definition of removal from association.
Let me outline the current situation. Under rule 49 of the young offender institution rules, a prison governor can authorise removal from association for up to 42 days. That can be extended further after application to the Secretary of State. I understand that, as we have just discussed, national data on the use of solitary confinement within the youth secure estate are not currently collected. That is concerning, as it means that no accurate data exists as to how many children and young people are being held in isolation and for what period of time. However, anecdotal evidence from the Equality and Human Rights Commission and others suggests that it is on the increase. Will the Minister clarify the situation on data collection? What steps can be taken to change it?
According to the recent BMA guidance, “The medical role in solitary confinement”, the use of solitary confinement in the UK youth justice system is much more widespread than we might realise. According to studies that the guidance flags, almost four in 10 boys in detention spend some time in solitary confinement—some for periods of almost three months. Some estimates suggest the duration of confinement can range anywhere from an average of eight days up to 60 or even 80 days. Children and young people are also increasingly being kept in conditions of solitary confinement—in cells or rooms for up to 22 hours a day—amid reports of staff shortages and increased violence. There is also evidence referred to by the Children’s Commissioner that certain groups may be more likely to experience isolation.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend agree that all the scientific and medical evidence points to a profound negative impact on the child, such as paranoia, anxiety and depression? Solitary confinement does not create a constructive pathway to rehabilitation and reintegration into society.
Seema Malhotra
My hon. Friend makes an incredibly important point that goes to the heart of this debate. The use of solitary confinement in the justice system potentially increases harm and can impact on the young person’s life not only during a period of detention in the justice system, but in the longer term.
Black and mixed heritage children are three times more likely to experience isolation. Children with a recorded disability are two thirds more likely to experience isolation. Looked-after children are almost two thirds more likely to experience isolation. Children assessed as a suicide risk are nearly 50% more likely to experience isolation. The problem we have is that the policy is not without harm.
There is an unequivocal body of evidence on the negative health effects of solitary confinement. As has been mentioned, the symptoms observed include anxiety, depression, rage and aggression, cognitive disturbances, paranoia and, in the most extreme cases, hallucinations and psychosis. The experience can also trigger adverse childhood experiences. For children and young people—about whom this debate is most concerned—who are still in the crucial stages of developing socially, psychologically and neurologically, the health effects of isolation and solitary confinement can be particularly damaging.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
Does my hon. Friend agree that there is growing international consensus that solitary confinement should never be used for children and young people? The Government need to accept that this country is increasingly out of step with the rest of the world.
Seema Malhotra
I thank my hon. Friend for making that point. I will come back to it. It is interesting to note that the use of solitary confinement was banned by former President Barack Obama in 2016. There are some lessons we can learn from what is happening in the USA.
Mr Jonathan Lord (Woking) (Con)
If a young person is a danger to themselves and others, what remedies, whether elsewhere in the world or in our system, is the hon. Lady recommending? Solitary confinement, as she puts it, is presumably being put in place largely for safety reasons for the young person concerned and those in the same institution as him or her.
Seema Malhotra
The hon. Gentleman makes an extremely valid point about the possible reasons for removal from association, in terms of safety for prison officers or the young person. However—I will make this point in my concluding remarks—I think it is incumbent on the Government to look for alternative non-solitary confinement options that can be used in the youth secure estate. Other countries do not have the same kind of youth detention estate as us, yet they still have youth crime that they need to deal with.
There is evidence that the policy of solitary confinement can be counter-productive. Rather than improving behaviour, it can fail to address the underlying causes of some of that disruptive behaviour and, as my hon. Friend the Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) has said, create additional problems with reintegration.
During the recent roundtable in Parliament, the Howard League highlighted the case of AB, which has been covered extensively in the media. AB was a 15-year-old boy in Feltham young offenders institution in my constituency who called an advice line run by the Howard League. The adviser who answered could tell that he was miserable and fed up. He had attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and had been locked, alone, in a cell at Feltham young offenders institution for 23 hours a day, for weeks on end. He was allowed outside only to shower and exercise. Understandably, he wanted to end his solitary confinement and was appealing for help.
Cases are complex, but these are children. The Howard League stated that it
“had no option but to go for judicial review”.
AB’s case was heard last year at the royal courts of justice in London. The court found that his treatment was unlawful. It stopped short of finding it “inhuman or degrading”, but that is also being challenged. I am also very pleased that we have heard this week that the Joint Committee on Human Rights is launching an inquiry on solitary confinement and the restraint of children in the youth justice system. I hope that it will take some of these important issues further.
The Howard League received more than 40 calls last year from or about children in prison who were isolated. For those reasons and others, as my hon. Friend the Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) has pointed out, there is a growing international consensus, from groups including the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child, the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture, and the United Nations special rapporteur on torture, that solitary confinement should never be used on children and young people. As I have said, Barack Obama, when in office, banned the use of solitary confinement for juvenile offenders in the federal prison system. He said:
“It doesn’t make us safer. It’s an affront to our common humanity.”
With Feltham young offenders institution in my constituency, I am greatly concerned that vulnerable children are entering a justice system, elements of which could result in additional long-term harm. Solitary confinement, as defined by international law—however it is referred to and whatever terminology may be used—should be abolished and prohibited. Until it is, the health needs of those subject to it should be met, and there is an essential role for doctors and, indeed, our prison governors in ensuring that that happens.
We should be clear that any mechanism that results in a child or young person being physically or socially isolated for prolonged periods of time should have no place in a humane justice system. I should therefore be grateful if the Minister would address how he defines removal from association; what steps he is taking to get a full and accurate picture of the number of instances of it; what assessment his Department has made of the level of harm caused by it; what steps he is taking to create alternative, non-solitary confinement options in the secure estate for young people, with adequate resources and staff to meet their needs; and how he envisages us moving forward to end this practice in the United Kingdom.
Oral Answers to Questions
Seema Malhotra Excerpts(6 years, 1 month ago)
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Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
The Government’s recruitment drive is welcome, but is it not true that we are just now catching up? The number of staff at Feltham young offenders institution in my constituency has fallen by a third, from 600 in 2013 to 461, which has had a huge impact on the governor and staff. The institution has been deemed unsafe for both staff and prisoners. Is it not time that the Government committed to working closely with staff and the Prison Officers Association to tackle this crisis and ensure that we get back on track with rehabilitation for young offenders?
Rory Stewart
One hundred per cent.—we will be working very closely with prison officers for exactly that reason. As the hon. Lady points out, we must get the numbers right. Those 2,500 extra prison officers will be vital in order to get the 1:6 ratio needed for rehabilitation.
European Union (Withdrawal) Bill
Seema Malhotra ExcerptsWednesday 13th December 2017
(6 years, 4 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 View all European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: Committee of the whole House Amendments as at 13 December 2017 - (13 Dec 2017)
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
Thank you, Mrs Laing. I will do my best but, with short notice, I may struggle to bring my speech down to three minutes.
It is a pleasure to follow many hon. Friends and hon. Members in lending my support to new clause 3, amendment 7 and new clause 66, which speak to the intention of Members on both sides of the Committee to engage constructively and thoughtfully on the role of Parliament and on when, and how, Parliament has a say on the fundamental issue of the withdrawal agreement.
I am grateful to have the opportunity to address my new clause 69 and to thank the 40 hon. Members from both sides of the Committee who put their name to it. New clause 69 seeks to lay out a simple road map to provide clarity on the role of Parliament in the final months before Brexit.
The Government put out a statement today, setting out the role of Parliament in approving the agreements and how the agreements will be put into force. Notwithstanding the Minister’s comments, I will lay out why the statement does not go far enough in addressing this fundamental issue—the Minister also did not adequately address these points.
The Brexit Secretary said in his written statement—there is no disagreement with this—that:
“A Withdrawal Agreement will be negotiated under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union…whilst the UK is a member of the EU. It will set out the terms of the UK’s withdrawal from the EU…as well as…any implementation period agreed between both sides.
Article 50(2) of the TEU sets out that the Withdrawal Agreement should take account of the terms for the departing Member State’s future relationship with the EU.”
We believe that partially parallel process is soon to be under way.
Michel Barnier has said that he wants to have the withdrawal agreement finalised by October 2018, which is indeed the Government’s stated intention. The Prime Minister said today that she fully expects the vote to be “well before March 2019.” The Government have committed to holding a vote on the final deal as soon as possible after the negotiations have been finalised, and the Brexit Secretary’s statement says:
“This legislation will be introduced before the UK exits the EU”.
I very much hope that all goes according to plan. It is in the interest of the country for there to be an orderly, stable and predictable Brexit process that enables businesses and families to plan ahead and do all they can to manage the risks of transition. If the Government are as confident of that as they would wish us to believe, I hope they are able to confirm today that they will accept amendment 7 and respond to the points raised in my new clause 69, which seeks to do nothing other than include in the Bill the commitments the Government made in their stated policy intentions. Although I will not be pressing new clause 69 to a vote, I reserve the right to bring back the issues at a later stage.
Legislation is not passed to plan for when things go well but to provide protections and a route map for action when things do not go well. There may well be an honest intention to reach a deal by October 2018, but there is no guarantee. I am not attempting to talk down the Government’s negotiation attempts, but there has been a consistent view—indeed, reiterated by the Prime Minister today—that she fully expects a vote before March 2019. That is not a promise, because we know it cannot be.
I am also representing the views expressed by the Brexit Secretary on 25 October 2017, when he said we could go up to the 59th minute of the eleventh hour. The Government may have sought to row back on that, but the experience suggests and the reality is that it may well end up being the case.
Michel Barnier said this morning that negotiations are difficult and “tough” and that he wants steps to be taken for an “orderly withdrawal”. He has stated today that a full trade deal will not be possible by the time the UK leaves the EU. With only 15 months left to Brexit day, we must recognise that in these complex times the unpredictable can happen, and that in those circumstances, which none of us would wish to see, we need to have planned ahead effectively. We need certainty for Parliament, for our constituents, and for business and industry about how we will proceed.
My new clause states that in the event of no deal being reached by October 2018 or a deal not having been passed by both Houses of Parliament by February 2019, with a month to go the Prime Minister must: seek agreement with the EU to extend the article 50 time period; or seek agreement with the EU to finalise the terms of the withdrawal agreement through the period of transition after the article 50 notice expires and the EU treaties cease to apply to the UK; or seek agreement on any other course of action in line with a resolution of this House. This is important as it gives an opportunity for timely—I repeat, timely—engagement of this House, which is critical in order for any vote to be meaningful.
My new clause does not specify which of those the Government should seek to do, but it sets out three clear options that could be vital in keeping order and stability in the weeks and months before exit day. Let me be clear also that this is not about an unnecessary extension of the process; it is about allowing provision for and clarity on the circumstances in which it may be called upon, most likely for a short period of months. That can only be helpful in managing the risks of Brexit, particularly in the event that a deal is well under way but has not been finalised. It would certainly not be against the spirit of the referendum result, and at the time could precisely be in the national interest.
I do not believe that in truth this approach should be any great distance from Government policy, and it simply picks up on paragraph 3 of article 50, which states:
“The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.”
I do not believe there has been any suggestion from the European Council or elsewhere that such a request would not be agreed to if it were proven to be necessary.
In the light of aspects of stated Government policy, new clause 69 and amendment 7 should be nothing other than helpful. I wish to make a few points on this, Mrs Laing, which I shall summarise. The Government have made it clear that they will want to see a vote of this Parliament—after a challenging journey on that policy, they made that commitment in their manifesto in May. As has been stated today, however, the challenge is that it is not clear, and there certainly is no consensus on, what constitutes “meaningful”. Indeed, there has been a difference in view on this. First, the Secretary of State said:
“The House will have the opportunity to vote on any number of pieces of legislation before we get to the end and then will have a vote to decide whether what it gets is acceptable. I cannot see how it can be made more meaningful than that.”—[Official Report, 2 February 2017; Vol. 620, c. 1222.]
Yet, five days later, his deputy Minister at the time, the right hon. Member for Clwyd West (Mr Jones), said:
“Let me say this. It will be a meaningful vote. As I have said, it will be the choice between leaving the European Union with a negotiated deal or not. To send the Government back to the negotiating table would be the surest way of undermining our negotiating position and delivering a worse deal.”—[Official Report, 7 February 2017; Vol. 621, c. 273.]
This is surely the crux of the issue about the ability of Parliament to influence this Government and the negotiations to get the best deal for our country.
That brings me to my final point, which is about the issue of no deal. If the Government were to proceed on the basis of no deal, that itself would not be after a vote of this House. No deal obviously would bring huge risks to our economy and it would have a legally questionable status, and those views of stakeholders are of no surprise to Ministers in this House.
I would rather we were not in this positon and I would rather not have had to table the new clause, but I believe strongly that it would provide important safeguards for the country and for people in our constituencies, who will be picking up the pieces if we crash out of the European Union. Parliamentary scrutiny and sovereignty are our duty and responsibility. I may not push for a vote today, but I reserve the right to bring my new clause back to the House, depending on what further comments the Minister makes. The House deserves a definite timeline for a vote, and to be confident of the meaningfulness of that vote.