Gurkha Pensions

Seema Malhotra Excerpts

Monday 22nd November 2021 Westminster Hall

[Jonathan Gullis]

I am grateful for the hon. Lady’s intervention. She probably will not be shocked that I will not use the word “fleecing”. However, I was going on to say that I wholeheartedly support the idea of waiving this fee. The Gurkhas have served our country—their country—and they have kept me, my daughter and the people of Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke safe. It is only right and fair that people who are willing to put their lives on the line for the United Kingdom’s safety get the respect that they deserve. I therefore implore the Minister and the Home Office, which I am sure will be watching the debate, to do the right thing and waive the fees for non-UK armed forces personnel who have served their country and who meet the requirements. We have a fantastic Gurkhas veterans community across the United Kingdom.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

The hon. Member is making a powerful speech, and I wholeheartedly support his call to reduce the fees. I also want to mention the right to vote, which Gurkhas have raised with me. I want to ask a brief question about the hunger strike this year, which was raised with me by the mayor of Hounslow, Bishnu Gurung, who was a British Gurkha staff sergeant himself. Does the hon. Member agree that we should never again see our Gurkhas going on hunger strike to try to get attention because they feel there is not an ongoing dialogue that will resolve these issues effectively, and that it is incredibly important that we have a commitment from the Minister today on his call for a clear process that has the confidence of the Gurkhas?

[Jonathan Gullis]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention. I completely concur: no one wants to see any veteran—whether they are Gurkhas or members of the British armed forces who were born and bred in the United Kingdom—having to go to extreme lengths to get their voices heard. I have had some really great meetings with the Minister, who is in his place, in advance of today’s debate. I know how seriously he takes this issue and how much the Gurkhas mean to him and the people of Aldershot, which he represents. I therefore have absolutely no doubt that he will always be a strong and doughty champion of the Gurkha community and that he will ensure they have someone they know they can go to and hear from directly. They are blessed that he is the Minister for Defence People and Veterans, because they can lobby the Minister directly—they do not even have to go through him to get to the relevant individual, which is a great situation.

I note that the Parliamentary Private Secretary sitting behind the Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland), is a former colonel who served in the armed forces for many years. He therefore brings his years of experience to the Department as well to ensure that we get this right. The hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra) is correct that we should never have to see such scenes, which is why it is important that the Minister outlines the detail for the December committee, so that Roy can spread the word back to the Gurkhas about what is going to happen and they can have full faith and confidence in the system.

The fact that we set up the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is a really positive step forward, because veterans’ affairs are starting to be front and centre. Our colleagues from Northern Ireland, the hon. Members for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), have joined us today, and they obviously have a strong and emotive case, and rightly so, around the legacy of claims made against those who served in the British forces. It is also important that we can draw a line in the sand over the troubles to move the Northern Irish community onwards, which I know the civic community is keen to see, so I appreciate that this is an important issue for us all. Having spoken to many a Northern Irish MP, I know that Northern Ireland is a very open and welcoming country and that its citizens are proud to have people from across the United Kingdom who have served in the armed forces, whether Gurkhas or others, living there and being part of their fantastic country.

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[Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)]

Thank you, Dr Huq; it is an honour to speak under your chairship for the first time. Hopefully I will not take as long as five minutes. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) on his excellent speech. I also thank him for the interventions he took, which was very generous of him.

As the Member representing half of the borough of Hounslow, with my hon. Friend the Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra) representing the other half, I know that we speak for our local community when we say how proud we are of Hounslow’s large Gurkha community. We are proud not only of their loyal service to our country, including in the fight against fascism in world war two, but of their years of service locally in civic life, through their work with charities and through the many small businesses that play a huge role in our local economy. As my hon. Friend said, the mayor of Hounslow for 2021-22, Councillor Bishnu Gurung, served as a staff sergeant with the Gurkhas. He retired in 1995 after 19 years of service, having received both a long service medal and a good conduct award. After completing his service and settling in Hounslow, he works full time as a London bus driver and is chairman of the Gurkha Nepalese Community Hounslow. He is such a good reminder that a Gurkha’s service does not end when they retire.

It was heartbreaking to see a group of Gurkhas on hunger strike back in August. The fact that they were pushed to such lengths shows how ignored they felt. I welcome the fact that they have since met Defence Ministers and that talks are ongoing about a number of issues. We have already touched on immigration fees.

[Seema Malhotra]

My hon. Friend talks about the Gurkhas’ ongoing service, describing the journey of our mayor in Hounslow and others. Does she agree that it is indicative that he has chosen SSAFA as his mayor’s charity this year, drawing into all he does the story of the veteran community and their engagement in our public life?

[Ruth Cadbury]

My hon. Friend and I were at the mayor’s fundraising event just three weeks ago, where there was a wonderful presentation from SSAFA. We congratulate the Gurkha community and Councillor Gurung on his fundraising, support and time spent volunteering for SSAFA.

I will not repeat the points already made about immigration fees. I am concerned about an issue that has not yet been raised. Many Gurkhas living on low incomes because of the pension problem will have been impacted by the decision to cut £1,000 a year—£20 a week—from universal credit. With more than 30,000 families claiming universal credit in Hounslow alone, that cut will affect a number of Gurkha families. The issue was raised as part of the hunger strike. Surely, given their service to this country and communities across the land, Gurkhas deserve better than being forced to survive on the edge of poverty. I hope the Minister will make clear just what our Government are doing for all those Gurkhas who gave up so much in service to our nation.

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[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, Dr Huq. I was keen to participate. I thank the Backbench Committee for allowing the petition to be debated and the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis) for introducing it in such a well-rehearsed fashion.

No Member of this House, as others have said, is under any illusion as to the debt owed to the Gurkhas. The pension is an issue that I have raised in the House since 2011, as have others on many occasions. To put it simply, the historic treatment that the Gurkhas have received during the 200 years for which they have proudly served this nation has been disgraceful and must come to an end.

Gurkhas have served in the British Army around the world since 1947, and even before then 43,000 Gurkhas gave their lives fighting in the first and second world wars. Their bravery is the stuff of legend. Every one of us will have had some contact with the Gurkhas over the years. When I did the armed forces parliamentary scheme, I had the opportunity to meet some of the guys. We were introduced to them. I will never forget it; I was greatly humbled to be in their presence. I say that honestly, because I was. The Gurkhas might be men of small stature, but they have tremendous courage and bravery that surpasses and equals that of many others across this great nation.

Many years ago I also had the opportunity to see the Gurkhas at Mount Stewart in my constituency of Strangford, where they were the special attraction for the beating of the retreat. It was idyllic and will remain in my memory for all my life. My wife and I were both invited. It was a few years ago, on it was a lovely sunny summer’s evening. At the Mount Stewart house, which is run by the National Trust, the beating of the retreat was done by the Gurkhas and it was unforgettable. To the day I die I will always remember it.

It has been more than three years since the joint technical report on the British Gurkha case was exchanged between two Governments on 22 March 2018 at Whitehall in London, which was the basis for a dialogue to address the main concerns of the British Gurkhas—the very thing that every person in the Chamber has said today. To date the silence has been deafening and it is time we stepped up and stepped in, just as the Gurkhas have done for us. In his intervention, the hon. Member for Greenwich and Woolwich (Matthew Pennycook) referred to the bravery of the Gurkhas and how they deserved equal treatment simply because they fought in the same theatres of war alongside those who have got the full pension, which the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) referred to, that the Gurkhas do not have.

People have made clear their opinion in signing the petition—as clear as a bell and as clear as it can be. There can be no doubt whatsoever that they do not believe we are doing the right thing, so the issue for us and the Minister, for whom I have the utmost respect, is that we are not doing the right thing, as the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North said. I am sure that those who have already spoken and the shadow spokespersons who will speak afterwards do not believe that we are doing the right thing.

At what stage will we decide to do the right thing by those brave men and their families? It is not just about the soldiers; it is about their families as well. They deserve the pension. They have honoured us. They have delivered and they deserve to have it. How many petitions will it take? How many protests? How many demonstrations? How many hunger strikes? There have already been too many.

The Minister must help us with a response that outlines the steps that will be taken to ensure that parity is restored with the other arms of our armed forces. I read in an article in The Daily Express that one of the Gurkhas who took part in the hunger strike said that he received just £47 a month after he retired, while his British counterparts got £600—a sixteenfold difference.

[Seema Malhotra]

Normally, it is the hon. Member who intervenes on me, so it is a great honour to intervene on him. He makes an important point about the huge difference in payments received. Does he agree that one of the reasons behind that inequality was the assumption that many would go back to Nepal who did not do so, and that we need to understand and address the reality of their lives, not the assumption that was made many decades ago?

[Jim Shannon]

The hon. Lady is right: it is not about the assumption. The debate is about the reality for the Gurkha soldiers and where they are. The hon. Member for Glasgow North West referred to the fact that today such a soldier receives £350 a month compared with £1,200 for former British soldiers—an £850 difference. Is that parity? Is that equality? Is that right? No, it is not, and therefore it is clear to me that we have to try to do something.

When the Gurkhas fight, no one can accuse them of being second-class warriors. Their courage is equal, if not better, on some occasions. They are in a class of their own, yet they demand only parity, equity and fairness. They fought alongside other regiments, more often than not at the forefront in battle, and deserve the same benefits, pensions and welfare as their colleagues have received. How many right-thinking persons could argue that this is not a debt that is owed, and that we have a role to play in ensuring the payment of that debt? I certainly cannot, and therefore I am proud to stand, along with others, with the Gurkhas, as they have stood for freedom and democracy under the banner of our monarchy, and of our Queen, and before that our King.

I understand, of course, that talks are set to begin between the UK and Nepal in the form of a bilateral committee to discuss all Gurkha veteran welfare issues. However, I put on the record that there is a concern, which appears valid to me, that that talking shop will deliver the same results as previous attempts: nothing of consequence. I ask the veterans Minister whether he can tell us, and state for the record in Hansard, what he expects the bilateral talks to deliver for the Gurkhas. That is what we want: delivery for the Gurkhas.