Business of the House

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 10th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this important and troubling issue. As constituency MPs, we all see the terrible effects of violent crime and we should never be complacent in tackling it. So far, between 2019 and 2022, the Government will have spent more than £105.5 million of taxpayers’ money to develop 18 violence reduction units and over £136.5 million to support an enhanced police response. We have also spent £200 million on early intervention and prevention support initiatives through the youth endowment fund to support children and young people at risk of exploitation and involvement in serious violence, and the Government are taking urgent action to tackle knife crime and keep people safe. We have, according to the latest figures, recruited 8,771 additional police officers as part of our commitment to hiring an extra 20,000 police officers. I understand that, when crime hits, such bald statistics do not necessarily provide immediate comfort, but I hope they give reassurance that this matter is being taken very seriously and is being tackled.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

We now go to the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, Ian Mearns.

[Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Leader of the House for the business statement and for announcing the Backbench business for 17 June. We have just had it confirmed this morning that the second debate on 24 June will be on UK defence spending. We also understand that there are to be two days of Estimates debates in the last week of June, and in order to facilitate that I am afraid to say that applications to the Backbench Business Committee must be made by no later than 6 pm this forthcoming Tuesday, 15 June.

Lastly, as chairman also of the all-party parliamentary group for football supporters, may I express my ongoing sympathy for and solidarity with the bereaved and traumatised families of the 96 Liverpool fans killed at Hillsborough 32 years ago? I hope that the Backbench Business Committee can facilitate a debate in this Chamber as soon as possible, having received an application from my hon. Friend the Member for Garston and Halewood (Maria Eagle) just this week.

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I must defend Her Majesty’s Opposition, because we changed the date of their Opposition day debate, so it is reasonable for them not to have put the debate forward. My hon. Friend lays down an interesting challenge to them, because they know the policy is hugely supported in the country. Polling indicates that a majority of Labour supporters support the policy, let alone Conservative supporters, who support it overwhelming. So, let us see, as time’s winged chariot passes along, whether or not they are brave enough to put their money where their mouth so often is.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I must now suspend the House for two minutes to make the arrangements for the next business.

House of Commons Commission (External Members)

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Tuesday 8th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

As I hope I was making clear, I think it debars from the Commission, where politicians are already appointed. It inevitably does not debar from other public sector appointments, where that may be perfectly reasonable, and where people may be appointed because of their connection to a political party if we are seeking a political balance. As I said, I have particular confidence in the two people we are appointing today. I think they will be first class and make a considerable contribution to the Commission and the work of this House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Leader of the House for his kind words. It was a great pleasure to be on the Commission, and very enjoyable working with all those who served on it.

Question put and agreed to.



Parliamentary Works Estimates Commission

Resolved,

That Lilian Greenwood be discharged as a member of the Parliamentary Works Estimates Commission and Mr Nicholas Brown be confirmed as a member under Schedule 3 to the Parliamentary Buildings (Restoration and Renewal) Act 2019.—(Tom Pursglove.)

Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority

Resolved,

That Thangam Debbonaire be appointed to the Speaker’s Committee for the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority in place of Valerie Vaz, until the end of the present Parliament, in pursuance of paragraph 1(d) of Schedule 3 to the Parliamentary Standards Act 2009, as amended.—(Tom Pursglove.)

House of Commons Members’ Fund

Resolved,

That Sir Alan Campbell be removed as a Trustee of the House of Commons Members’ Fund and Mr Nicholas Brown and Craig Whittaker be appointed as Trustees in pursuance of section 2 of the House of Commons Members’ Fund Act 2016.—(Tom Pursglove.)

Business of the House

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 27th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The Prime Minister was asked about the inquiry yesterday. An inquiry will be set up in this Session, and it is right to do that at the point at which events are more under control. It would not be right to do it while the pandemic is still raging. Evidence was given yesterday by somebody who played a very important role within the Government and who was a very active part of the decision-making process, and who now seems to have turned himself into Achithophel. The lines that come to mind are:

“In Friendship False, Implacable in Hate:

Resolv’d to Ruine or to Rule the State.”

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. I need to finish this session by about 25 past at the latest, because we have two very well-subscribed debates to follow. If I am to get everybody in, I must ask the remaining speakers to ask short questions, and I am sure that the Leader of the House will respond with shorter answers.

[David Johnston (Wantage) (Con)]

Last week was, of course, Dementia Action Week, and when I met with the Alzheimer’s Society, it presented several worrying statistics, one of which showed the rise in the use of anti-psychotic drugs. Based on the stats in Oxfordshire, fewer than one in five of the people who had been prescribed anti-psychotic drugs actually had a diagnosis of psychosis. Will the Leader of the House please get a statement from the Department for Health and Social Care about what lies behind that rise in the use of anti-psychotic drugs in people who do not actually have psychosis?

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Endometriosis can be a very debilitating condition that affects around one in 10 women of reproductive age, and it is therefore important that the appropriate care is available to those who need it. I note my hon. Friend’s point that it takes, on average, eight years for a diagnosis. On 8 March, the Department of Health and Social Care launched a call for evidence to inform the development of the first women’s health strategy for England. Consultation closes on 13 June. Within that call for evidence, both the online survey and written submissions seek information on gynaecological conditions, including endometriosis. I encourage women with experience of this issue, and MPs on behalf of their constituents when it has come to their attention, to respond to the call for evidence so that we can identify areas for further work. It has previously been raised on the Floor of the House, and the Government are aware that it is a very serious issue for many women.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Leader of the House for his statement. I shall now suspend the House for two minutes to make arrangements for the next business.

Amendments to the Independent Complaints and Grievance Scheme

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 28th April 2021 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Before I call the Leader of the House to move the motion, I should inform the House that Mr Speaker has not selected amendment (a) in the name of Sir Christopher Chope.

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The independent expert panel is available for appeals for people who get caught up in the ICGS system. If any conclusion is made, I believe people have the right to ask to appeal to the panel. Not all appeals are guaranteed, but there is a right to ask for one. As far as I am aware, that applies to anybody who comes up within the system.

Let me come to the other minor changes. The original documents were clear that confidentiality is central to the process, but they made reference to the possibility that either a complainant or a respondent might wish to discuss the matter with a small number of people to seek practical support. Those mentioned were managers and HR services or other relevant parties. The new version refers expressly to trade union representatives and party Whips, because concerns were very reasonably raised that the document should make it clear that a Member who discussed his or her case with a Whip would not be in breach of the requirement of confidentiality. That clarification is relevant in all cases, whether or not the complaints procedure has already begun.

Where there is a real change to the policies and procedures, I am happy to confirm that the changes are not being applied retrospectively. In particular, the new one-year time limit on complaints of bullying and harassment will not be applied to any complaints made before 28 April 2022, and that is clear from the text before the House. Alison Stanley also recommended the removal of the complainant’s right of review because of the degree of overlap with the factual accuracy check. Any complainant who has made a formal complaint before the House’s approval of the amended texts will continue to be able to request a review on the grounds set out in the existing documents, namely that the procedure was flawed or that substantial new evidence has become available.

The purpose of all the changes we are debating today is to ensure that the ICGS is an effective, efficient, clear and comprehensive system for complaints and support. These alterations will make a difference to the running of the scheme and will help us to make progress towards real and sustained culture change in Parliament—something I know Members across the House are keen to continue to champion and support. I commend the motion to the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I know that Mr Speaker and the other Deputy Speakers would want me to agree wholeheartedly with the words of the Leader of the House about Ray Mortimer, whose service to the House is deeply appreciated, as is the kindness and courtesy that he has always shown to us. We will miss his cheerful presence. We wish you well, Ray.

Business of the House

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 21st January 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Alfred the Great was, of course, a great educator and translator of works into English, to ensure a wider spread of appreciation of knowledge across his kingdom, and my hon. Friend is also seeking to increase knowledge across the kingdom. His point on the use of public funds is one of continuing importance in this House, which has always had a responsibility to ensure that taxpayers’ money is well spent and that any money that is spent is audited and has an audit trail. Therefore, he is right to highlight this issue, and I hope that Somerset County Council will provide him with the answers he needs.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Those are simply marvellous quotes, I am sure. I remind Back-Bench colleagues that we will have a ministerial statement before we get on to this afternoon’s Back-Bench business, so could they keep questions short and ask just one with perhaps not too many quotes? Equally, I ask the same of the responses.

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) [V]]

A study by the consumer organisation Which? has warned that the use of cash, on which many rely, is in danger. Thirty per cent. of Scots reported being unable to pay with cash at least once when trying to buy something since March. Last year the UK Government vowed to bring forward legislation to protect the cash network. Natalie Ceeney, chairman of the Access to Cash Review, has warned:

“We are sleepwalking into a cashless society”,

and time is running out. Will the Leader of the House therefore agree to speak with his colleagues in relevant Departments and ensure that the promised Bill is introduced in the coming months?

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend. His point is an important one. I remind him that the regulations lapse and have to be renewed, so any renewal of them will always require a debate and a vote in this House. But, as he said, a great deal has happened: 4.6 million people have had inoculations across the United Kingdom so far, and there are 1,000 vaccination sites already operating in England. Things are happening, as he says. In the meantime, we still have to maintain social distancing. We need to keep six and a half feet away from people. Think of me laid down flat: that is a bit short of the distance needed. We have to follow that, but as he says, we are making progress.

No one in the Government or this House wishes these restraints to remain a day longer than is necessary. No Government would wish to restrict these liberties. It has been done because of an emergency. There is no justification for having the restrictions beyond the point at which they are needed. That, I think, is a view held across the House.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

The Leader of the House paints a tantalising picture.

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I have always said that I will try to achieve speedy replies for Members when they ask for them, and I will certainly take this up with the Foreign Secretary to get a response to the hon. Lady’s letter. The UK Government have been doing what they can in Yemen, both with funding and through diplomacy, to try to make a very, very difficult and sad situation better, but she is obviously right to try to seek further answers from the Foreign Office.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

This session finishes at nine minutes past 1, so I remind hon. Members to be as brief as possible.

[Jack Brereton (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Con) [V]]

I very much welcome Government schemes such as the lifetime skills guarantee, which will help adults in Stoke-on-Trent to upskill and retrain, but does my right hon. Friend agree that it will be a challenge to encourage people to take up such opportunities? Will he therefore agree to a debate to highlight the benefits and help to encourage more people to take up such opportunities?

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[John Howell (Henley) (Con) [V]]

Last week, I was appointed by the Prime Minister as the leader of the British delegation to the Council of Europe. My right hon. Friend’s predecessor as Leader of the House, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom), looked favourably on the idea of a regular debate to let people know what we are doing in the Council of Europe. May I push my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House a little on whether that idea finds favour with him?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Congratulations!

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Madam Deputy Speaker, I join you in congratulating my hon. Friend on becoming leader of the UK delegation to the Council of Europe, and helping in its important work promoting democracy. I look enormously favourably on a debate on the Council of Europe in Backbench Business time.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Leader of the House. I will suspend the House for two minutes to enable the necessary arrangements for the next business to be made.

Business of the House

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 30th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

My right hon. Friend’s wish is my command. I am glad, therefore, to say that there will be a debate on covid on 12 January, which will be absolutely the opportunity to raise these issues. My right hon Friend, as so often, is absolutely right: the roll-out of the vaccine is key to us getting back our freedoms.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

We now go to the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee.

[Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Leader of the House for the business statement and for his stated intention, with the rescheduling, to move our first Backbench day from 7 January to 14 January. I think we have now contacted Members who were scheduled to have their debates on 7 January, and they have agreed to proceed on 14 January, so we are ready to roll, as it were.

I am afraid that, despite the Secretary of State for Education’s exhortations otherwise, the links to the info on the reopening of primary schools is not apparent on the front page of the gov.uk website. Will the Leader of the House make sure that it is easily flagged up for headteachers, so that they can see exactly what is expected of them when they return to school?

Madam Deputy Speaker, may I also take this opportunity to wish you, Members across the House and all House staff a very happy new year—or as happy as might be possible—and to thank our NHS staff, Gateshead Council staff and every worker across the board who has kept things going to keep us safe, and to keep shops and services going to sustain us and all our constituents in these most difficult times? Happy new year.

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[Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con)]

The Leader of the House is already aware of my concerns about the House not sitting next week. Of course, like my colleagues, I will continue to represent and work with my constituents across Wealden, but I do that best when I am here in the House. Will he confirm that the reason why the House will not sit next week is that we need to protect the staff who enable this House to perform? If that is the case, will he work with all other authorities in the House to make sure that there is enough resilience among staff and that we use the best technology possible so that we do not find ourselves in this situation again? Covid has changed everything, and the House must change too.

Very quickly, will the Leader of the House confirm when the Trade Bill will return to this House from the other place? One of the beauties of the Prime Minister’s new trade deal with the EU is that we have our parliamentary sovereignty back and can make our own trade deals, and we want to make sure that our trade deals with anyone with whom we wish to engage are done in accordance with values and ethics based on human rights.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. Given that we have a very long debate later, I urge Members to ask one question.

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I quite like one question, too—it makes it easier to answer—but I will do my best to answer both questions. With regard to the recess, I cannot agree to what my hon. Friend says. We have the right number of staff and the right level of expertise. We cannot duplicate such fine figures as the Clerk of the House. That is one person and to have the in-built redundancy of a spare Clerk of the House would be enormously expensive and, I think, very inefficient. We have to recognise that our staff are absolutely fantastic at taking on the extra load when that is necessary, but we must not burden them when it is not necessary.

As regards the Trade Bill, one of the interesting things about the past few months and the way in which we and the Lords have operated is that in our mainly physical presence we have managed to get through business rather quicker than their lordships, so it would be wrong of me to speculate as to when their lordships might have chewed through the Trade Bill.

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

That sounds like a date. Once the restrictions are lifted, we must celebrate the 100th anniversary of Northern Ireland, and of the United Kingdom in its current form. We should always celebrate our nation. The hon. Gentleman has given me an excuse to have a second glass of champagne tomorrow night—and in the spirit of good will to our European friends, it will of course be champagne. I can have one at 11 o’clock to celebrate the end of the transition period, and another at 12 o’clock to celebrate 100 years of the United Kingdom in its current form. It has to be said—I do not know whether you know this, Madam Deputy Speaker—that the parties in Northern Ireland are absolutely fantastic. I went to speak in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency, and it was absolutely brilliant: at the end of their events, they all stand up and sing the national anthem. I am tempted to suggest that we do that at the end of the Adjournment debate every evening in the House of Commons.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank hon. and right hon. Members for their kind words this afternoon about our hard-working staff.

Business of the House

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising a question that I know will be of interest to many across the House.

Under the withdrawal agreement negotiated with the EU, the UK will continue to participate fully in the current 2014 to 2020 Erasmus+ and European Solidarity Corps programmes. This means that the projects successfully bid for during the current programmes will continue to receive EU funding for the full duration of the project, including those where funding runs beyond 2020 and the end of the transition period. Negotiations are obviously continuing with the European Union at the moment, but in parallel with those negotiations the Government are continuing to develop a UK-wide domestic alternative to Erasmus+ as a contingency measure. The spending review 2020 provides funding to prepare for a UK-wide domestic alternative to Erasmus+, in the event that the UK no longer participates in Erasmus+, to fund outward global education mobilities—which I think means people studying abroad. The Government will set out further details in due course, but if the hon. Lady feels that that is not a comprehensive enough answer, if she would write to me I will take it up further.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Just a gentle reminder that we do have a lot of business to get through this afternoon, including a hugely subscribed debate on the high street, so if we could have fairly succinct questions and answers that would be superb.

[Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and West Somerset) (Con) [V]]

With that in mind, Madam Deputy Speaker, I will just say to my right hon. Friend that, as he knows, there are two plans for local government reform in Somerset. One of them, from the districts, is an extremely good plan and it will restore our wonderful county back to its grandeur. The other one, from the county council, just does not cut the mustard and is rubbish. The panic now setting in with the management there is getting embarrassing. County staff have been told that they are not to allow difficult questions to the management or the councillors. This sort of desperate intimidation was used by the Vikings. We need a full debate to expose the county council’s tactics and the bullying it is up to. My right hon. Friend knows that King Alfred beat Guthrum and the Vikings retreated to Essex—obviously. Surely, no one in Somerset deserves such a fate.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Perhaps the hon. Gentleman could be briefer even than that in future. [Laughter.]

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

Somerset is the glory of our nation and a whole united Somerset would be of great advantage to the United Kingdom. It is worth remembering that, if Alfred had not retreated to the Somerset Levels and worked out how to defeat the Danes, our country would never have achieved the greatness that it has achieved.

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising this. The Fire Safety Bill is an essential piece of legislation which this Government have brought forward to bring about real improvements in fire safety across the UK. We are committed to implementing the recommendations made following phase 1 of the Grenfell Tower inquiry. As regards the programme motion available for consideration of Lords amendments, I have heard her appeal. These things always depend on the availability of parliamentary time and the other pressing issues that we may need to debate, but what she said has been noted.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I thank the Leader of the House. We will now have a three-minute suspension to allow for the safe exit and entry of right hon. and hon. Members.

Business of the House

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I commend my hon. Friend for campaigning for independent retailers in her constituency, and particularly for Jim Hall Sports. It is really important that the major suppliers help independent retailers. They should not use their quasi-monopolistic position to take away support from our high streets. I hope that point will be made in the debate on high streets next Thursday. The Government have provided a great deal of support during the pandemic, with £66 billion in loans and £11 billion in business grants, but really, this is going to be in the hands of consumers. We should all try to support our high streets where we can.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

We now go to the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, Ian Mearns.

[Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab) [V]]

I am afraid to say that I am very disappointed that the Backbench Business Committee has no time allocated for debates next week. We had a tasty morsel or two lined up. We have debate applications that would neatly fit into any time that might become available between now and Christmas, with many keen applicants trying to get slots before Christmas.

The Leader of the House is right that there was a Minister for Drought under Harold Wilson’s Government. That was the right hon. Denis Howell in 1976, although he subsequently—in a matter of weeks—became the Minister for Floods, which only goes to show that we have to be very careful what we wish for.

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s point on live animal exports; that is something we can do because we are leaving the European Union, so it is another advantage of being free to make our own laws. With regard to the placing of areas in each tier, that will be reviewed every fortnight, with the first review taking place on 16 December. The Government are keenly aware of the views of hon. Members across the House, and decisions will continue to be based on a range of indicators, including analysis of cases across age groups and the rate at which cases are rising or falling. There will certainly be plenty of opportunities to discuss those matters in the House. Indeed, there have been frequent oral statements, and more Government time has been made available for general debates on covid.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Order. As well as business questions, we have another statement and two debates to get through, so I would ask for succinct questions and answers.

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (SNP) [V]]

According to Open Doors, there are more than 93 million Christians in Nigeria at risk of persecution. I have also received a very worrying inquiry from a constituent regarding the burning down of six synagogues in Nigeria. Can we have a much needed statement on what can be done to ensure the protection of vulnerable religious minority groups from persecution in Nigeria?

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[Mr Rees-Mogg]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. One thing on which the Government and individual Members of Parliament can help is pointing people in the direction of assistance when they have a debt problem. Many organisations up and down the country help people to reschedule their debts so that they can get them under control and work out how to get their family finances back in order. Citizens advice bureaux are good at helping with that and with pointing people in the right direction. There is certainly a good local organisation in my constituency that is able to assist people in these difficult circumstances, and that is a role we all have as Members of Parliament.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I shall suspend the House for three minutes.

ICGS Investigations: Commons-Lords Agreement

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Wednesday 25th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Sir Bernard Jenkin]

That does not fall under our remit at all, but in recent cases that I can think of, an estoppel has been put on possible elevations to the other place of Members who are under suspicion or where there has been controversy. Obviously, if it was an entirely secret and non-disclosable allegation that had not found its way into the public sphere, we would need to check that there would be a procedure for that. However, that is a separate matter from whether a complaint is going to be investigated and adjudicated by the ICGS.

We have also addressed the complementary problem. There are not many Members of the other place who choose to renounce their peerages and seek election to the House of Commons, but this can and does occasionally happen. The Committee therefore recommends that the new arrangements should be reciprocal. Allegations against an ex-peer who might then be in the Commons would be investigated under the procedures of the other place, but any sanction would be carried out within this House.

The Lords Conduct Committee has agreed a report in very similar terms to our own, and this has been approved in the other place. I urge this House to do likewise and approve these sensible arrangements, which are necessary to block off this lack of redress in our measures for tackling bullying, harassment and sexual misconduct by our Members and ex-Members.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Does the Leader of the House wish to make any comments?

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Jacob Rees- Mogg)]

I will speak very briefly, if I may, simply to say that this is constitutionally very important because of the exclusive cognisance that both Houses have of their own business. Therefore, that an agreement has been reached whereby the House in which the offence took place may investigate, but the House where the person has ended up may sanction is a very satisfactory agreement. It respects exclusive cognisance, as is constitutionally proper, but will also ensure that the ICGS system is able to work effectively, so I commend the motion to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I suspend the House for three minutes to allow the safe exit of hon. Members participating in this item of business and the safe arrival of those participating in the next.

Participation in Debates

Rosie Winterton Excerpts

Monday 16th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Rees-Mogg]

I doubt the hon. Lady can see, but the shadow Leader of the House is nodding. I know everyone here wishes her well.

As I said earlier, this is a balance between ensuring that parliamentary business is carried out properly and allowing those who are extremely clinically vulnerable to be able to participate. That will not be perfect in terms of debate—they will not be able to take interventions, nor will they be able to intervene. It is hard to see how that could function effectively. The greater the numbers who were involved, the harder it would be to make the system work effectively. I think we have the balance about right, although I absolutely understand that it will be difficult for some right hon. and hon. Members.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call Bob Stewart.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The point I was going to make has been repeatedly made by hon. and right hon. Members, so I will withdraw my question.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I now call Sarah Jones.

[Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab) [V]]

May I recommend that the Leader of the House read the gov.uk guidance? The guidance is different this time from last time: it is just really clear that people need to stay at home and only go to work if they cannot work from home. We can work from home, and to show an example to the rest of the country, we should do that. I have been self-isolating for the last nine days, because the covid app told me to. I really wanted to raise a campaign that I and my constituents were doing to try and honour the 34 people in Croydon who have lost their lives in conflict since the second world war. I had wanted to raise that in the Armistice Day debate and I was not able to do so. Given that the technology is available and that thousands of key workers, including my husband, are working perfectly well from home, why did the Leader of the House think it was right to exclude me from that debate last week?