Business of the House

Baroness Winterton of Doncaster Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Lucy Powell]

May I join Mr Speaker in thanking the Speaker’s Chaplain, the Rev. Canon Patricia Hillas, for all her wise counsel and support through some difficult and celebratory moments in her time as Chaplain? We all wish her well on her elevation. I also congratulate the hon. Member for Stafford (Theo Clarke) and my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield) on their cross-party parliamentary inquiry into birth trauma this week. All of us who have gone through childbirth can recognise their stories and findings, although I did have good experiences with mine. I fully support their calls for a national birth strategy.

I also thank all those Members who took part in the debate on risk-based exclusions on Monday. We had a good discussion. The House has now taken the view that a process of risk assessment for Members under arrest for serious sexual and violent offences shall be put in place. Since Monday, I have been struck by how many women, in less privileged or powerful positions than mine, have approached me to say thank you, and how that decision has changed how they feel about working here. It might not always feel like it, but there is a watching audience wanting to see us, as a workplace and as employers, make progress on those issues. This week we did.

Last week, the Leader of the House and I launched a guide for MPs and candidates on tackling conspiracy theories. We agreed that conspiracy theories are a form of radicalisation, and we must all do everything we can to combat them. Is she therefore as disappointed as I am to see the hon. Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield) sharing in campaign literature a conspiracy theory featured in that guide relating to 15-minute cities, which is closely linked to antisemitism and far-right movements? Just last week, the hon. Lady gave a staunch defence of her actions, showing no contrition for the damage she has caused. Will the Leader of the House send her a copy of the guide, and tell her why she has made a big mistake and why she should quickly and strongly renounce it?

Does the Leader of the House think it is acceptable to Members that on the evening before the first day of the remaining stages of the Criminal Justice Bill, Members did not know which or what amendments were to be debated? This is an important Bill with a number of significant Back-Bench and Government proposals on issues of wide public concern, such as cuckooing, dangerous cycling, ninja swords, abortion, and one-punch manslaughter. The Bill came out of Committee in January. Why has it taken so long to get to Report? Having taken so long, why were Members left completely in the dark about what would be discussed and when? With more than 180 pages of amendments, including 22 new Government changes published very late the night before, that is no way to run business and it is deeply disrespectful to Members. It is just another symptom of the chaos at the heart of this Government’s operation and the disregard they hold for this House, and that is just day one of our consideration of the Bill. Why is there such a further delay to day two? We should be doing it next week, not in another three.

Extended drinking hours for the Euros are welcome, but that does not need to be considered on the Floor of the House. Is that because the Government have more handling concerns and they are worried about defeats on the Criminal Justice Bill, or is it because, even during the Euros, they could not organise a booze-up in a brewery? Will the Leader of the House assure the House that any further amendments or programming changes for day two will be published in good time?

The future business is yet again so light that it is almost laughable, but it is actually not that funny. The country faces huge headwinds. Families are in a cost of living crisis, millions linger on NHS waiting lists and communities are beset by problems, yet the Government of the day seem to have nothing they want to change, nothing they are in a hurry to sort out and nothing to bring to this House. These could, we hope, be the last few months that the Conservatives are in power for some years. Do they really have nothing they want to do with it? If they have nothing that they want to use their parliamentary majority for, why are they even bothering to hold on to it?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I assume that the hon. Lady will have informed the Member whom she referred to that she was going to do so?

[Lucy Powell]

I did.

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[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Excellent.

[Penny Mordaunt]

First, may I send my good wishes for a full and speedy recovery to Prime Minister Fico following the horrific attempt on his life? I echo the comments from the hon. Lady regarding the Speaker’s Chaplain and wish her well on her next chapter. I thank Mr Speaker for his statement this morning, which was very helpful. I also thank Anthony Wickins and his colleagues for coming to Parliament this week to promote and help us all understand the importance of dementia support in this important week.

I join the hon. Lady in thanking not just the two lead Members, but all Members who helped to bring forward the important report on birth trauma, which has had a huge response across the country. I know that not just the Prime Minister and Ministers on the Front Bench, but many organisations concerned with the care of mums-to-be and new mums are taking this report seriously. I hope it will do much good on this important matter.

The hon. Lady mentioned my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield), and I am sorry that she made those comments and implied that my hon. Friend has antisemitic views. That is quite wrong, and I am afraid it is a pattern of behaviour of inciting unpleasant things. We have seen it this week following Monday’s vote, which has led to the statement that Mr Speaker had to make. I am pleased that we brought that motion forward, with the work that the Commission did and that we now have a scheme in place. I am sorry that all Members did not have an opportunity to vote on that final motion, and I am sorry that one result of the debate is that our environment has become less safe for certain Members—ironically, female Members of Parliament —following some of the actions since that debate.

The hon. Lady talks about the Criminal Justice Bill. She will understand that it is normal for the Government to talk to people proposing amendments before a Bill comes back, but that does not mean work is not being done on the Bill. The Bill deals with complex issues, and Members will of course be given a good opportunity to have oversight on any amendments or changes being brought forward.

The hon. Lady talks about business being light. I just remind her that in this short final Session of this Parliament, we have already introduced more Bills than Labour’s last four Sessions in office by a considerable margin. If business collapses, it is not the fault of those on the Government Benches, but those who are here to oppose. We have even had that happen in Opposition day debates. It is our business, and we are getting it through the House. If it takes less time because the Opposition fail to show up, that is not our problem.

Today, we have had the Leader of the Opposition setting out his first steps, but he has already been on quite a journey. He got on at Islington North with a flexible principles ticket. He claims that he is taking his party and us to Dover and Deal, but it is becoming clear that, due to industrial action, fewer trains under a Labour Government and running out of other people’s money, he will have to join a rail replacement bus service terminating at Rayners Lane. I hope for the sake of those at Dover waiting on a promise of a train that will never arrive that there is a compensation scheme in place—perhaps a daily allowance in the other place. I do not think that the public, who have long memories, will fall for the stunt going on in parallel to business questions. They have long memories and can look at what is happening in Labour-run Wales. They will not fall for today’s pledge card.

Economic stability? The author of the “there is no money” note still sits on Labour’s Benches.

Cut waiting lists? The only NHS cuts that Labour has ever made have been not to waiting lists but to its budget; it cut the NHS budget three times.

Border security command? Labour would end the new systems command and legislation that is having an effect on small boats, even when it agrees that that is working.

Public ownership of energy? How is that working out for Nottingham Council?

Tackle antisocial behaviour? Under Labour, crime was twice what it is now. Those in a Labour police and crime commissioner area are 40% more likely to be a victim of crime.

New teachers? There were 30,000 fewer teachers under Labour than there are now. Labour has plans to tax education, destroying a ladder for many children and increasing the burden on the state sector. There is nothing there—no vision, no plan and no principles on which to steer—which is why that pledge card will go the way of all the others.

With apologies to The Beatles, this Leader of the Opposition is a nowhere man, sitting in his nowhere land, making all his nowhere plans for nobody. He doesn’t have a point of view. He’s no good for me or you. Judging by this latest pledge card, he is nowhere near good enough for Britain.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my right hon. Friend for raising awareness of that important point. We have new opportunities through these fantastic new drugs and therapies that are coming online and it is vital that people have access to them. It is also important that we learn from the huge amount of research into dementia support, which not only can be hugely beneficial to those with dementia and their families and carers but will save the NHS billions.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP)]

First, I will take up the Leader of the House on last week’s offer of a deeper briefing with a Minister on what she described as

“some minor issues to resolve”—[Official Report, 9 May 2024; Vol. 749, c. 696.]

in the border operating model. If, as she told me last week, she is paying “great attention” to what is going on and still did not see huge lorries as they wait 20 hours at border posts, perhaps she should take a trip to Barnard Castle. I would like to take the chief executive officer of the Cold Chain Federation, whose members certainly do not agree with her that there are no fundamental issues to sort out, with me to that briefing to deliver a dose of reality.

May we have a debate in Government time on the careful use of words in politics? The Prime Minister has refused to apologise for his offensive outburst on Monday when he quite deliberately associated the Scottish Government with Hamas terrorists, North Korea and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. The good folk of Edinburgh North and Leith have elected a dangerous extremist—who knew?—along with the vast majority of MPs from Scotland who also want independence. All along, we thought that we were democratically elected Members of this House, just like the Leader of the House.

Madam Deputy Speaker, you might think that the Conservatives of Brexit Britain would respect a nation’s right to self-determination as a perfectly honourable political position. Is it just Scotland’s that they do not respect? We will always defend our nation’s best interests. Maybe that is what terrifies the PM and the likes of the Scotland Secretary, who wants to force ruinously expensive, untried nuclear reactors on renewables-rich Scotland. Now, he is frightening our bairns with threats of a Unionist regime and Scottish Labour back in power to push through our overlords’ cunning plans—what a Better Together reunion that would be. Would the Leader of the House remind me what happened to that respect agenda?

It would almost be funny if it were not coming from this particular Government: an unknown number of prisoners let loose around England, the Home Office losing thousands of migrants under its watch, and an English courts and justice system on the verge of collapse. But what is on the Prime Minister’s new hate list? What keeps Tories awake at night with fear? People like me, apparently. How laughable. Could the Leader of the House confirm whether she believes that the Prime Minister was right to associate Scottish democrats with Hamas terrorists and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard, or will she take the opportunity to distance herself from this laughably desperate baloney?

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[Penny Mordaunt]

I am sorry to hear that this is happening in my right hon. Friend’s constituency. One would hope that local authorities would learn from mistakes made elsewhere, and stop inflicting policies that do not work and cause huge damage to public services and the local economy. I am sorry to hear that his council is determined to press ahead with this. The experience has been dreadful in Wales, where there have been deep concerns from the emergency services, which have found it difficult to go about their business, and massive costs have been piled on to business.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee.

[Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)]

I thank the Leader of the House for making the business statement, for announcing the Backbench Business debates next Thursday 23 May, and for making Thursday 6 June a Backbench Business Committee day. The Committee has provisionally offered debates for that day on hormone pregnancy tests and the recognition of the Republic of Somaliland. The Committee is still open for business, and we very much welcome applications for debates in Westminster Hall, particularly on Thursdays.

I was also wondering if the Leader of the House would join me in—a pleasant little thing from my perspective—wishing the warmest congratulations to Gateshead football club, who were victorious and lifted the FA trophy at Wembley last Saturday?

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[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

Sadly, we all know that misogyny can lead to acts of violence and sexual attacks, and it is right in those circumstances that we use exclusions to safeguard staff and Members in this place. But we should not forget that misogyny can also be part of everyday culture in workplaces in this country, where women are talked over, their ideas ignored until men put them forward, and inappropriate comments are made—so-called banter culture. All of that can lead to so much more, which we want to prevent. Can the Leader of the House set out what more the Government want to do to attack that culture? Can we have a debate in Government time to discuss how we can protect women in the workplace?

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Before the Leader of the House responds, I just wish to say that we still have a statement and a debate to come. To ensure that everybody can get in, brief questions and brief answers would be helpful.

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Lady raises an important matter. I am glad that we have taken measures to protect people who work here, and of course the environment in which people work is incredibly important. Equalities Question Time was yesterday, but I will ensure that the Government Equalities Office has heard what she has said and will raise it with the Secretary of State.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Maria Caulfield)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am very grateful to you for allowing me to raise a point of order from the Front Bench. It relates to comments that the shadow Leader of the House, the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell), made at the start of business questions. She did notify me that she was going to make those comments, but after business questions had started. However, this point of order is more about the content of the comments, which I personally found very difficult.

I did write to my constituents over a year ago about a consultation that is being run by my local council on 15 to 20-minute communities. In that letter, I pointed to some of the rumours about 15-minute cities, because that is something that constituents have raised with me. That consultation is still live on the council’s website—it is on page 45 of its planning and appraisals document—so this is very much a constituency-based issue.

However, I find it very difficult to be accused of being a conspiracy theorist on the back of that, especially as the vaccines Minister. Whenever there is a debate in this place on that subject, the number of death threats and the amount of abuse that I get is overwhelming at times. I realise that colleagues sometimes have valid points to raise, but there is a backlash whenever those debates are held.

More importantly, being linked to antisemitism when my family in London are actually Jewish, and have had a very difficult time over the past few months, was devastating. I kindly ask the shadow Leader of the House to either withdraw those statements, or just to reflect that while we all play politics in this space, sometimes things are very personal.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

Does the shadow Leader of the House wish to make a further point of order?

[Lucy Powell]

Further to that point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I thank the hon. Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield) for her point of order. Can I put on the record that I did not say or imply that she was either a conspiracy theorist or antisemitic? I do not believe that she is either of those things. I was highlighting the dangers of sharing, however inadvertently, campaigns that featured in a guide to conspiracy theories that the Leader of the House and I published last week for MPs. That guide is in the Library, and I would urge the hon. Member for Lewes to read its section on 15-minute cities and the link to organisations.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

I thank the hon. Member for Lewes for giving me notice of her point of order. I am glad that the shadow Leader of the House was here to hear and respond to it. There are two important points. The first is on giving advance notice; I did check with the shadow Leader of the House that she had given advance notice. Secondly, I hope that this has led to some clarification of what was said and what was meant. I am not responsible for what Members say in the Chamber, but I remind everybody that good temper and moderation are the characteristics of parliamentary language. I am sure that everybody in the Chamber would agree with that. I think we will leave it at that.