Health and Care Bill

Debate between Richard Fuller and Alex Norris

Report stage
Monday 22nd November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Alex Norris]

Yes, I agree. I look with real sadness at the loss of exercise-on-prescription schemes that were part of the public health grant but have gone over the last decade. Similarly, on swimming, the decisions in the Budget relating to local authorities will lead to councils, which are setting their budgets as we speak, closing more leisure centres and swimming pools. We should mourn those losses, which come as a result of a weak bit of public policy.

In the Bill, the proposed watershed with regard to high fat, sugar and salt products is broadly a good thing. With that in mind, we do not oppose Government amendments 31 to 39, which are relatively modest tweaks, but we should not lose sight of the fact that we are talking about a significant proposal; I know that colleagues have interest in this. Beyond a watershed on traditional broadcast media, we will also see a complete online ban of high fat, sugar and salt advertising. This is a blunt tool in pursuit of an important goal.

New clause 14 in the name of the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire would implement a more nuanced system, as proposed by the advertising industry itself. This is mirrored in amendments 106 to 109 in the name of the hon. Member for Buckingham. We probed this point in Committee. I was surprised then, and remain surprised, that there seems to be little interest from Ministers or the Department in even having that conversation and exploring creative alternatives. The desired benefits are non-negotiables. If there are other ways to achieve those benefits, they ought to be approached with an open mind.

[Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for mentioning my new clause. We have a number of issues potentially to put to a vote later. Given what he has said and given that the Minister was a bit hazy about this issue in Committee, would he be minded to support my new clause if it were put to a vote and the Minister did not come forward with something more robust?

[Alex Norris]

The hon. Gentleman tempts me, but my problem is that I want to know that the conversations have taken place and that the proposal has been considered as an option. I would not say today that I think it is the best option, but I am surprised that that conversation has not taken place, which is why I have highlighted it. There is still time for the Minister to reconsider, and he should.

I was less persuaded by amendments 3 to 5 in the name of the hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire, which seek to permit brand advertising as long as it does not refer to an HFSS product. In many cases, the brand and product are so inexorably intertwined that it might undermine the goals and aims of the whole intervention. I do, however, support amendments 6 to 8, which refer to the nutrient profiling model—the model that is used to determine what is and is not considered to be a high fat, sugar and salt product. It is important that there is certainty and that it does not move around more than the science would say that it ought to.

We talked about this issue at length in Committee. If we are asking the industry to reformulate and change, companies ought to be able to base product decisions on the certainty that the Government will not arbitrarily change the criteria. Such companies may have made significant time, financial or infrastructure investments in a certain product and then could see the criteria change overnight. In Committee, we extracted a commitment from the Minister to a Government amendment on this matter. That was reiterated in a letter on 13 November, when the Minister wrote to Committee members and committed to

“introducing a Government amendment at Commons Report Stage to include a duty to consult before changing the NPM technical guidance.”

I am surprised not to see that at this point. I hope that we will get clarity from the Minister, or indeed that he is minded to accept these amendments, because this is an important development. We also want the level playing field suggested by amendments 110 to 113, so we will be listening with great interest to his reply.

This is the wrong Bill at the wrong time. It does nothing to address the real causes of ill-health in this country today. In this part of the proceedings, colleagues have given the Minister a chance to change that and I hope he is minded to take it.

Obesity Strategy 2020

Debate between Richard Fuller and Alex Norris

Thursday 27th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to open this important debate on behalf of the Opposition.

Obesity is a significant public health challenge in this country. It is a growing problem that compounds down the years in missed potential and accelerated poor health. I am glad the obesity strategy recognises that, as well as being a matter for individuals in their personal choices, there is a significant impact from our environment. As such, we have a responsibility in this place to do what we can to help people to maintain a healthy weight.

Almost two thirds of adults are overweight or living with obesity—I am one of them—and we have heard that a staggering number of our children leave primary school overweight. This is an unequally distributed problem, with hospital admissions due to obesity nearly three times greater in poorer communities than they are in the best-off communities. At a population level, it is clear that excess weight brings with it increased risk of diseases such as diabetes, cancer, heart disease, liver disease and, of course, associated mental health conditions. In 2019-20—this is such as staggering figure—there were over 1 million hospital admissions for which obesity was either the primary or secondary cause. That was up 17% on the year before, and represents a 600% increase on the previous decade. That is an extraordinary changing picture and one that should kick us all into action. We have also seen in the last year that living with excess weight makes us more vulnerable when fighting the effects of covid. As the Minister says, it is one of the risk factors we can actually make a direct and swift impact on. It is clear that we need to act.

I have said before when we have debated this topic that where the Government bring forward sensible proposals, we shall work with them to implement them in the national interest. Happily, the 2020 strategy contains many such proposals that we are very keen indeed to see implemented. The 9 pm watershed on unhealthy food adverts is prudent. Efforts to curb the promotions and prominent placements of things that we know are bad for us is a good idea, too. Sometimes, even when we are trying to make healthy choices it feels like we cannot escape reminders of those other options. An expansion of NHS weight management services is well overdue, and I hope we will empower such services to use all effective treatments and resource them to be able to do so, too. Traffic lighting is a valued and effective tool in understanding what our food comprises of. We will support proposals that strengthen and develop that system, and I hope we hear a little bit more about that later. A national-level publicity campaign is valuable and we will support its introduction. There is so much to agree with and I have consistently said so to the Minister. Indeed, the only addition I will contribute here is that we need to get on with it and that we do not have time to waste. There are elements, however, that I want to probe and seek reassurance on from the Minister.

On the total online advertising ban, I do not think it is a secret that the Government do not do online policy very well. I think the ever-running saga of the online harms Bill shows that. Online advertising is complex and sophisticated and is changing all the time. I am conscious of concerted efforts by those in the advertising industry to seek to offer the Government a way of delivering on this goal that reflects their expertise in this area. I hope to get an assurance from the Minister that officials are at least talking to them about that and taking it seriously.

On the restrictions on retailers, I hope that we will get a proper chance to understand and debate the qualifiers on square footage and staffing levels. I do not think we would want to be in a situation where this ends up affecting relatively few organisations, creating an unlevel playing field or promoting perverse outcomes, such as having fewer staff. I would be interested to hear from the Minister in that regard.

Crucially, we heard from the hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse) about calories on menus. I know that that has public support, and support from many campaigners, but if we effect that, it really must be done correctly and properly. I strongly do not believe that before they sought to publicise that and press on the Government have given enough consideration to those with eating disorders who will be negatively impacted.

[Richard Fuller]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for cantering through his support for the Government. I just want to take him up on his first principles and the rationale, from his philosophical point of view, for why he believes the Government have a right and a responsibility to manage what people eat and how they look. Does he put obesity on the same level as the tobacco industry of the past? Obviously, health measures were taken because of the harmful effect that tobacco could have on people. If he does not put it on that level, what level does he put it on? Does he put it on the same level as alcohol, which causes a lot of poor health? If not, does he believe that we ought to be doing more on alcohol?