Elections in Bangladesh

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Westminster Hall

[Gavin Shuker]

Indeed. In the excellent debate we had in this House a few weeks ago on the political situation in Bangladesh, a recurring theme was concern about human rights abuses and the failure to follow the rule of law adequately in political discussions. It is important to keep that in the forefront of our minds.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman for the work he has done on this issue and for calling for this debate. He has raised a point that has been raised before in the Chamber: there was a real lack of democratic credibility for the elections that took place. That is the past. The question I have for him—and for the Minister—is about how we move forward. Does he agree that the international community needs to work with the current Government in Bangladesh and urge them to work with the Opposition to work out a time frame and a framework for a future election that will have that democratic credibility?

[Gavin Shuker]

It is an excellent point. What is required in a situation such as this, where there appears to be deadlock, is for the international community to play an appropriate role. I will go on to speak about Britain’s unique role and ability to help in that regard.

We have that role not least because we are a major investor in Bangladesh: in this calendar year, the Department for International Development will spend around £275 million in Bangladesh. Around a third of that will go directly to the Bangladeshi Government, and a significant proportion of the money that will be spent is aimed at boosting political participation and promoting safety and justice. One programme that falls into that category, called Strengthening Political Participation in Bangladesh, holds three clear goals: first, to make political parties more responsive to citizens and their interests; secondly, to strengthen core democratic institutions, namely the Bangladesh Electoral Commission and Parliament; and thirdly, to ensure that civil society advocates effectively for a more accountable and responsible political system. Despite the commencement of that programme four years ago in 2009, the 2014 election was notable for its success in weakening all three objectives.

The ongoing political conflict has a damaging effect not only on empowerment and accountability but on other things. The Centre for Policy Dialogue has estimated a total economic loss of over £3.8 billion as a result of the conflict around the election caused by blockades and ongoing political turmoil. That loss has hit the transport industry, the agricultural sector and the clothing and textiles industry hardest. Those are three sectors in which Bangladesh must succeed if it is to reach its goal of becoming a middle-income country.

It is only right that in this scenario DFID should reflect on the relative success of the programmes that are funded in conjunction with the United States Agency for International Development and amount to aid of over £56 million over a five-year period. Arguably, their success is questionable. The issue is complex—I am not suggesting that the programmes simply do not work, or that they should be junked or the money withdrawn—and DFID Ministers should look urgently at how that money is spent, so that it can be fully effective in engaging and empowering voters across the country.

An internal review of the programmes would be helpful, as through them we have the potential to shape a relatively young country, and shape a structure that is fair and sustainable. That must be done quickly, as tensions remain high and local elections will take place over the coming months. Will the Minister reflect on that in his discussions with the Department for International Development and, in his reply, will he commit the Government to publishing the findings of the DFID review that is already being spoken about? There is scope for reviewing all in-country programmes in Bangladesh, to assess whether they have made an adequate contribution to building political governance and civic society.

There are no easy answers for the international community as to whether it was right to press ahead with elections or to work to maintain an interim or caretaker Government. I reiterate what I said earlier this month during the excellent debate in the Chamber: whatever someone’s view on that question, it was right, as a nation, to issue statements to make it clear that the elections were neither free nor fair. We are not alone in feeling a responsibility to make public our concerns about the Bangladeshi people caught up in this conflict. The elections have not only encouraged a reaction from the UK Government, from Members who participated in a Back-Bench business debate earlier this month and from those who are here today, but they have led to an international response. Julie Bishop, the Australian Minister for Foreign Affairs, has called for new elections, stating:

“The government and the opposition must take up their shared responsibility to hold a new, fully contested and transparent election as soon as possible.”

She has also said:

“It is vital that the people of Bangladesh are able to express their democratic will and exercise real choice.”

[Rehman Chishti]

The hon. Gentleman has referred to the Australian Foreign Minister’s comment that there should be elections “soon”. In Pakistan, for example, General Zia said when he took over as dictator that elections would be held soon, and that went on for many years. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we need to secure a time frame for new, fresh elections, rather than simply saying “Elections will take place soon”, which may mean by the end of the five-year term.

[Gavin Shuker]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The timetable will come about not by our imposing it from on high but through negotiation with the interested parties. We are talking about the general election, but we are about to roll into a period of local elections in Bangladesh. In whatever we do, we must look first and foremost to the immediate window ahead of us to try to build capacity in the democratic process. If we can build faith in the democratic process through the local elections, that may move through to the other elections.

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[Rehman Chishti]

The hon. Gentleman says that we should move forward and that people should take part in the local elections. Does he really think that the Opposition, who say they have been prevented from taking part in those full and fair elections, will put up candidates in local elections? I believe that that is very unlikely.

[Gavin Shuker]

We can only go on the statements of the Bangladesh Nationalist Party, and I am encouraged that the party has confirmed that it will take part in the elections. I sincerely hope that parties can be equally engaged in a fair and democratic process that empowers voters. The hon. Gentleman’s scepticism is completely understandable in the circumstances. We must not be cynical, but it is incumbent on all of us to be sceptical about the statements that have been released. As we know, a series of statements have been put out and rescinded in the past.

The deputy spokesperson of the US State Department has said that

“the results of the just-concluded elections do not appear to credibly express the will of the Bangladeshi people”,

and called for new elections to be held “as soon as possible.” The French Ministry of Foreign Affairs called on parties to resume dialogue and to demonstrate “calm and restraint”. In Germany, the Federal Foreign Office stated that the election was an extremely poor reflection of the electorate’s will. Even the Japanese ambassador to Dhaka, Shiro Sadoshima, said that

“the political leadership in Bangladesh, regardless of their positions, should immediately initiate serious efforts to provide Bangladeshi people with a voting opportunity for making political choice in a manner that responds to their aspiration.”

Not all countries have been as helpful however; Russia, India, China, Vietnam and Nepal have come out in support of the new Government.

It is right to condemn human rights abuses—a subject that we do not have time to go into today—committed by all sides, but we must not lose sight of the imminent needs of the Bangladeshi people. We must encourage the President to act on the assurances given to work with the 18-party alliance. We must discourage the personal exchanges that have occurred between party leaders, because such actions have enormous implications for their ability to work together in the interests of Bangladesh. We should call for the release of the many political prisoners who have been detained in the run-up to the presidential election and who await bail. That is happening, but clearly not fast enough. I ask the Minister to reflect on that in his response.

We must also celebrate some signs of progress. As I have said, Bangladesh has plans in place for this year’s local elections, and it is incumbent on us to ask what practical support is necessary to ensure that those, and the subsequent phases in March and May this year, happen cleanly. It goes without saying that Britain, where half a million members of the Bangladeshi diaspora live, should continue to play a significant role. Those individuals remind us of Britain’s historical relationship with Bangladesh, our privileged role as a member of the UN Security Council, our position as a key member of the Commonwealth, our relationship with the USA and other English-speaking nations and our seat at the heart of Europe. Working from this place with our partners, I hope that Britain will make the contribution that only it can to help the people of Bangladesh take the step up to the fully democratic system that they deserve.

Oral Answers to Questions

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Tuesday 21st January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Hugh Robertson]

The UK has made it absolutely clear to the Afghan Government that the historic gains since 2001, including on women’s rights, must not be lost. These commitments are enshrined in the Tokyo mutual accountability framework, and we will be doing everything possible to ensure that the Afghan Government meet them.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that the security situation in Afghanistan post-2014 is linked to working with Pakistan to stop the terrorism that is going from one country to the other across the large border between the two countries?

[Hugh Robertson]

Absolutely. Anybody who has come back from Afghanistan recently, particularly from the military side, will point to the real improvements made by the Afghan security forces. It would be a great shame if that were lost in the political discussions that take place above that.

Bangladesh

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Thursday 16th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Main]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I am sure that others will touch on that matter. On 12 December, before the election, Baroness Warsi, the Senior Minister of State in the other place, went to try to encourage the leaders—Begum Khaleda Zia and the Prime Minister, Sheikh Hasina—to put aside their differences, to park the acrimony and bitter disputes that they have as a historical political narrative, and to continue the process of dialogue.

Our Government, I am proud to say, continue to urge all parties to work together and to strengthen democratic accountability, but unfortunately it is not bearing a lot of fruit. The parliamentary model over there does not reflect ours. There are no shadow teams, so any new Government coming in will not have been actively involved in shadow responsibilities in a Parliament that is regularly empty—I have sat in there.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. On having confidence in the caretaker system and an Opposition to shadow the Government, a key element for many years was that Bangladesh had caretaker Governments before elections—as in other countries, such as Pakistan—to ensure that the election process was fair and transparent and that all political parties could have confidence in it. It was completely and utterly wrong that that did not happen this time.

[Mrs Main]

My hon. Friend makes a very interesting point that has been raised many times with the all-party group on Bangladesh and other Members with an active interest in the issue. The reason the caretaker Government were introduced was that neither party trusted each other. During the 2006 election, the then Opposition—the Awami League—hotly disputed the fairness of the caretaker system and accused the BNP-led Government of stuffing it with their own supporters and people with influence over, or who owed their jobs to, them.

It was not a perfect system. The Awami League Government had a right under the constitution to alter it and they did so. I completely accept that many of the public disagreed with that decision, but it was recognised internationally that, given that they were elected in an 87% landslide victory, it was within their electoral mandate to make it.

Since the decision was made, I am sorry to say that the country has been in turmoil. Members of the all-party group—some of whom are present—visited the country in September to investigate the collapse of the Rana Plaza and other infrastructure deficits associated with the Tazreen fire and other garment factory fires and collapses. We raised the issue with both leaders and with businesses, asking them what their concerns were about the current unhappiness, debate and instability surrounding the change from the caretaker system—which, despite the fact that it was regularly disputed, was understood—to the leap into a future without such a system. People can have confidence in one system over another only if they truly believe that a caretaker is neutral. I believe that towards the end of the process, as the election loomed, Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League suggested a move towards a version of a caretaker system with Ministers from both sides, but it was not accepted

This is always a matter of dispute. The Bangladeshi Prime Minister told the all-party group—I found this poignant but, oh, so true—that an election has never taken place in Bangladesh without blood and dispute. That has been the case since the birth of the country. The people who suffer are the poor and those whose livelihoods rest on whether the international garment industry, which is dragging Bangladesh—if only it could get its act together—to the fore of a tiger economy, will get fed up.

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[Mrs Main]

I will not speak for too long, because other people want to take part in this important debate. I am sure that we will all have second bites of the cherry during other Members’ contributions.

A parliamentary answer that I received this week stated:

“Violence and instability are damaging to Bangladesh’s reputation, economy, and to people’s livelihoods. As the largest cumulative investor in Bangladesh, and the largest bilateral grant donor, the UK supports the people of Bangladesh in their aspirations for a more stable, democratic and prosperous future.”—[Official Report, 14 January 2014; Vol. 573, c. 525W.]

My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mark Field) is therefore right that we are a hugely important partner for Bangladesh. That is why we are hearing the views of so many hon. Members, even on a day when many Members, and particularly Opposition Members, have an important event to attend after the death of their colleague. Bangladesh really must take this matter seriously. These are not idle concerns.

There was a report in The Daily Telegraph last Saturday about aid budgets being under threat of being curtailed, cancelled or put on hold. From talking to the Minister of State, Department for International Development, I understand that that is a total misrepresentation. I am glad to have that assurance. Some 70% of our aid to Bangladesh goes to non-governmental organisations, many of which do a fabulous job. The APPG saw some of the projects when we went to Bangladesh. However, the British public, who are also facing tough times, will find it questionable that 30% of our aid goes, in various forms, to the Government. If the Government do not show that they will speak up for and do what is right for all the people of Bangladesh, I do not believe that we should be giving them 30% of the aid. We should give it to the charities and NGOs that are doing a great job and that are accountable. I do not think that we, as one of the largest aid donors, should continue to send money directly to a Government who were elected on 22% of voter participation—some voters felt too intimidated to participate and others that they had no choice—until there is a return of democratic accountability.

[Rehman Chishti]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Mrs Main]

I will give way for the last time, because I am about to finish my remarks.

[Rehman Chishti]

Does my hon. Friend agree that Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia should put aside their venomous personal differences, which go back decades, and put the interests of Bangladesh first so that the country can move forward?

[Mrs Main]

I absolutely agree.—[Interruption.] I can hear the chuckles that are going around the House because we have had these conversations many times.

The APPG has received many representations about how the other side—I will put it in that way, because there is the churn of a wheel and next time it will be a different political group—feels deeply that it is kept out of Parliament, that it does not have an opportunity to speak, that the microphones are switched off and so on. We have been to the Parliament as part of a fact-finding group. The participation in debates is virtually zero because people see no point in participating. Whichever party or coalition is in power has to acknowledge that. We do not have a perfect system here, but we have a system in which strong opposition makes for better governance. By going there in September, the APPG hoped to show that, despite the fact that we may lob political differences across this Chamber, we can work together in an apolitical fashion to discuss what is in the best interests of Bangladesh. We hoped that the unity that we showed would provide a good example.

I am sorry to say that the election and the level of non-participation are plunging the country into disarray. We are expecting a big rally by the BNP on 20 January. More people will be injured and suffer violence on that day. It is depressing to think that we cannot get the parties in a room and around a table to hammer out a way forward before the country dissolves into anarchy.

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[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

It is a pleasure and, in this context, an honour to follow the hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali), whose remarks struck exactly the right tone. I also compliment the hon. Members for St Albans (Mrs Main) and for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) on securing this debate and note the wide interest in it, including from the Minister of State, Ministry of Justice, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), who is unusually silent. He has to remain quiet, being on the Treasury Benches, but I know he has been a great friend to the Bangladeshi and Bengali communities in his constituency.

Today’s debate reflects the traditionally strong cultural, political, business and diplomatic ties between Bangladesh and the UK. We are fellow sovereign states within the Commonwealth, we are allies in the battle against climate change, in the UN framework convention talks and elsewhere, and there remains the strong relationship fostered by the work of the British Government as part of their historic achievement of spending 0.7% of national wealth on overseas development assistance. The £238 million that DFID spent in Bangladesh in 2013-14 has had an enormous impact: 205,000 more births attended by skilled carers who would not have been there otherwise; 295,000 women giving birth more safely and with better care for their infants; 24 million people benefiting from better protection against floods, cyclones and the impact of climate change, thanks to early-warning systems; and millions benefiting from better water and sanitation. This is a proud record and a demonstration of this country’s commitment to the success of Bangladesh. I should also mention our assistance with transparency and anti-corruption measures, supported by the Bangladeshi Government, and championed by the previous Secretary of State for International Development, the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell). It is right to pay particular tribute to his commitment to getting value for money for the British taxpayer from that spending in Bangladesh.

It is also right to point out the contribution of the Bangladeshi community to this country. About 500,000 people of Bangladeshi origin live in the UK, employing millions and contributing massively to the British economy and, in particular of course, contributing to British digestion and cuisine. My constituency does not have a huge Bangladeshi community, but its presence in the restaurant trade is still significant. We have the Krori family’s Curry Corner, which rose to national fame through Gordon Ramsay’s television programme; we have Mohammed Rahman’s Spice Lodge, which was a national finalist in the British curry awards and the Tiffin cup, organised in this place; and we have Abdul Mannan’s Brasserie Group, which owns 20 businesses in the Gloucestershire area, employing many people and contributing massively to the local economy. Those people are active members of the local area, supporting communities not only in Cheltenham and Gloucestershire, but back home in Bangladesh—remittances are an important part of the relationship between the two countries. Mr Rahman contributes to primary education, helping students to remain in education, while another constituent, Mr Arosh Ali, has founded a charity to help the Nowder district, and only recently, the wonderful new Koloshi restaurant hosted a fundraising event for victims of the Rana Plaza disaster and for advocacy of their rights—another important aspect.

I recently attended the first Bangladesh victory day celebration in Gloucestershire, which saw 300 people gather at Cheltenham race course to remember the history of Bangladesh and to remind people, especially the young generation, of the country’s difficult birth. Millions were displaced and hundreds of thousands—perhaps as many as 3 million—lost their lives in that terrible conflict, which was the birth pang of the state of Bangladesh. Despite its difficult beginnings and years of political violence, however, there are enormous achievements to Bangladesh’s credit: it still has the institutions of democracy and the rule of law, it has, as hon. Members have said, enormous economic potential, and it has achieved a lot in development.

The UN development programme has highlighted the achievements of Bangladesh in reaching many of the millennium development goals—targets set in the 1990s that many people at the time thought were unrealistic for many countries. Bangladesh has reduced the poverty gap ratio from 17% to 6.5% since 1990; attained gender parity at primary and secondary education; reduced under-fives’ mortality; contained HIV infections through access to antiretroviral drugs; reduced the prevalence of under-weight children, which has nearly halved from a staggering 66% to 36.5%, virtually meeting the 2015 target of 33%; seen increasing enrolment in primary schools; reduced the infant mortality rate, and so on. Many challenges remain—the incidence of poverty is still enormous; hunger and poverty reduction, primary school completion and adult literacy rates are still a challenge; and the creation of a decent wage economy, particularly for women, is also an enormous challenge—but much has been achieved.

As hon. Members have rightly said, this progress will be threatened if a fundamentally peaceful and democratic environment is put at risk. There is no simple solution to this problem and no simple blame to be attributed—I have been lobbied by constituents with views on all sides of the debate between the political parties—but I am afraid that the current election situation fits into a pattern of distrust bred by worrying developments in Bangladeshi democracy. The Foreign Office’s latest human rights report emphasises that politics is still done in a violent and confrontational atmosphere, as has been true for many years, as the hon. Member for St Albans said. The situation has echoes of 2006. Human Rights Watch makes it clear that the Awami League Government have many questions to answer, not just about the controversial decision to abandon the system of caretaker Governments during elections, but about press freedom and the imprisonment of political opponents. The decision to suspend the system of caretaker Governments at election time might have been technically justified—after all, there is an independent electoral commission in Bangladesh supported by the British Government—but it clearly further undermined the confidence of civil society and political parties that the elections could be conducted freely and fairly.

[Rehman Chishti]

A country that I know well, Pakistan, which shares much history with Bangladesh and many of the sad stories of military takeovers and political parties with bitter differences, agreed on a caretaker Government last year and saw its first transition from one civilian Government to another. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that if the caretaker system, with the support of the electoral commission, has worked well in Pakistan, it can work well elsewhere, including in Bangladesh?

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[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Bedford (Richard Fuller), who is an active member of the all-party group and demonstrates his deep knowledge of the issues we are discussing. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) on his initiative in securing this debate from the Backbench Business Committee and welcome the support from the chair of the all-party group, the hon. Member for St Albans (Mrs Main). I also commend her on the way in which she framed this debate in her excellent opening contribution which was balanced, constructive and informed, and demonstrates why she is our leader as chair of the group. We are very grateful for the work she puts into making it as active and involved as it is.

What we are hearing is shared despair at the situation in Bangladesh. I am a vice-chair of the all-party group and I have visited the country on five occasions. I have some 15,000-plus constituents in Poplar and Limehouse whose family are from Bangladesh. Some of them support the Awami League and others support the Bangladesh Nationalist party, and I suspect there are even some who support Jamaat.

My wife is a trustee of the Sreepur village orphanage in Bangladesh and I am a patron. It has being going for 25 years this year and looks after 1,000 destitute mums and kids in Bangladesh. We in Britain are proud of it because it was founded by a British Airways stewardess, Pat Kerr, and promoted by the BBC and British Airways. I also did a two-week stint in Dhaka in Bangladesh in 2008 with my wife on Voluntary Service Overseas. As an aside, I add that my most memorable headline was secured during that visit when, as part of our activities with the non-governmental organisation to which we were attached, we visited Bangladesh’s largest legal brothel, with 1,800 prostitutes, to look at the sexual health advice and the anti-HIV/AIDS activity it was promoting. The headline in the Dhaka Daily Star the next morning was “British Aviation Minister visits brothel.” That was not the most encouraging information No. 10 received that September, but I still managed to front the Labour Government’s initiative on additional aviation capacity in the south-east, which fortunately the Davies commission now seems to be agreeing with. I have strong connections with Bangladesh, therefore.

The international reaction from Washington, Beijing, Brussels and the UN has been consistent, as it has been in the Chamber today. All are calling for calm, for dialogue and for a fresh approach.

Many Members have pointed out that Bangladesh is a young democracy, that it is one of the poorest countries in the world, and that it suffers greatly from climate change, but it also has strong international support, and it has made dynamic economic progress in its young history and demonstrated great generosity and spirit. That is what makes recent events doubly disappointing, especially after the 2008 election, which had a turnout of nearly 90% and was declared to have been free and fair.

Subsequent problems have arisen over the war crimes tribunal, the international caretaker electoral arrangements, the use of the death penalty—the hon. Member for Bedford mentioned the adjustments to that—the use of punishments, the unprovoked violence from political extremists and the concerns about overreaction. These have all conspired to exacerbate the problems facing Bangladesh.

Given the progress made since the 1971 war of independence, the country’s political leaders have serious questions to answer. Both the main political parties have demonstrated immaturity and petulance. The Awami League and the BNP have both boycotted Parliament after election defeats, but both came to their senses. The representation by the hon. Member for St Albans of the history of the problems of the Governments and the different systems involved was a fair one. She demonstrated the open support in this House and across Britain for the Bangladeshi political parties to get together to resolve their difficulties. The challenge for Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina and the Awami League is how to reach out to Begum Khaleda Zia and the BNP and rebuild confidence. Without stabilisation, Bangladesh’s world standing could be reduced, which would harm its economy. No one wants to see that outcome.

Yesterday, I and other colleagues met minority groups based in the UK. They were citizens demonstrating in Parliament square to raise their concerns about the violent attacks on Sikhs, Hindus, Christians and others in Bangladesh, which occur regularly at election time. Those attacks must be condemned. Jamaat supporters have been accused of orchestrating a lot of them, but whatever their source, they must be stopped. Both the main parties need to do more to protect the minority communities and to condemn all political, ethnic, religious or cultural violence.

[Rehman Chishti]

The hon. Gentleman mentions Jamaat. He must have seen the recent statement that Jamaat will not be able to contest any elections in future. If that is the case, might it not result in further violence in Bangladesh? We have only to look at what has happened elsewhere with the Muslim Brotherhood; if Jamaat goes underground, there is more likelihood of violence, and that needs to be addressed.

[Jim Fitzpatrick]

That is a genuine concern. The right balance must be struck in regard to political freedom and the free expression of ideas through democracy, argument and reasoning, and the possible defeat of those ideas at the ballot box. Jamaat has not been prohibited in Bangladesh, although it has been accused of being a terrorist organisation. One would oppose the ambition of some in Bangladesh to create an Islamist republic, but I understand that it is something that some people want. However, they form a tiny minority. In the last election, I think Jamaat got less than 4% of the popular vote. That demonstrates Bangladesh’s great support for its democracy and its secularism.

I do not think that the political parties in Bangladesh need to be frightened or provoked by Jamaat, or stampeded by it. Arguments can be made that will beat it through the electoral process. The BNP has been in alliance with it, and many commentators are calling on that party to dissociate itself from Jamaat in order to create more political space. I understand that, historically, the Awami League had an alliance with Jamaat. These days, however, Jamaat is putting forward a much clearer political point of view, and the main parties should all dissociate themselves from it and let it stand on its own two feet.

Syria

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Monday 13th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

We will see. The subject is very different and, of course, Russia has played an important role in the work on chemical weapons—it has been and remains indispensable in that regard. I hope that, following the discussions today between the US, Russia and the UN, Russia will demonstrate its readiness to deal with the Syrian regime. The Syrian Foreign Minister is going to Moscow this week and I hope that the Russians will say to him, “There are now certain things you have to do to relieve the suffering and to give humanitarian access, as well as to go to the Geneva talks, fully in the spirit of the Geneva communiqué, to bring about a transitional governing body.” We look to Russia to make those things plain to Damascus.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

It has been said that that Mr Jarba attended the Friends of Syria meeting in Paris and asked for certain guarantees and commitments before the Geneva II conference. What requests were made by Mr Jarba and what was the response of the Friends of Syria group? On Iran and the E3 plus 3 agreement, does the Secretary of State understand the concern raised by many countries in the middle east about the agreement? What steps have been taken to get those countries to have confidence in it?

[Mr Hague]

Of course we understand the concerns about the agreement with Iran. People will inevitably be sceptical about that and we have given extensive briefings about the detail, which has greatly reassured many countries. Those countries will want to know that we are monitoring it very carefully and that the International Atomic Energy Agency is playing the full role it needs to. We want to know that, too. They will want to see the evidence over the coming months that the agreement is working, which is completely understandable. In the meeting yesterday, President Jarba of the National Coalition asked for more support for the National Coalition, in whatever way any country around the table could provide it. I made it plain, as I did just now, that we can resume and increase the support we give through non-lethal supplies provided we can be confident about where it will be delivered to and who will be using it.

European Council

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

I agree completely with my hon. Friend.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I very much welcome the statement that has been made by the Minister. On the issue of security, was there any discussion at the Council of Iran’s nuclear programme and the deal that has been reached, because there is concern among neighbouring Arab states, such as Saudi Arabia and other members of the Gulf Co-operation Council, not only about the deal but about the fact that it was reached without any representations from Arab countries at the table where the discussions took place? Does the Minister agree that a country from the GCC should be at the table when there are further discussions about Iran’s nuclear deal?

[Mr Lidington]

Iran was discussed at the Foreign Affairs Council. Of course, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary talks regularly to his counterparts in Germany and to the other permanent members of the Security Council about this matter. We also talk to our friends in the Gulf Co-operation Council about our relationship with Iran and the progress towards an acceptable solution to the Iranian nuclear issue. It is in the interests of countries in the region, as well as countries in Europe and north America, that such a solution is found as quickly as possible.

Persecution of Christians

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

It is a real pleasure and a privilege to follow the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson). I pay tribute to the Democratic Unionist party for choosing this important topic for debate. I come from a Muslim background, and my father was an imam. When I saw that the topic was “Persecution of Christians in the 21st century”, I knew that it was absolutely right and proper to have a debate on that subject. It is important for the world to realise that persecution goes on. I was speaking to a good friend of mine, the former Bishop of Rochester, Michael Nazir-Ali, about this, and he told me that the persecution of Christians was taking place in more than 130 of the 190 countries in the world at the moment. That is completely and utterly unacceptable; it is a very sad state of affairs.

When I was thinking about which area to focus on in the debate, it was difficult for me to decide because the persecution is so widespread. When it is taking place in more than 130 countries, which country should I pick? I narrowed it down and chose a country that I know well. I was born in Pakistan and had the great privilege, pleasure and honour of serving as an adviser to the former Prime Minister, Benazir Bhutto. She wanted reform, but she lost her life. She wanted a progressive Pakistan, but the radicalisation elements and certain others did not agree.

That is why, when I saw the topic for the debate, I had to choose Pakistan as the subject of my speech. The persecution of Christians is a major problem there, and I want to focus on the blasphemy laws. I recently read an article published by the Centre for Legal Aid, Assistance and Settlement, an organisation that covers the persecution of Christians in Pakistan and abroad, which stated:

“The Blasphemy law is at the root of much suffering and persecution of Christians in Pakistan. The use and abuse of this law is the fundamental issue underpinning discrimination and open violence against Christians and local churches”.

[Sammy Wilson]

The hon. Gentleman can obviously speak from experience in his own country. Does he accept that when Muslims stand up for Christians in Pakistan, they too put themselves at risk? When the governor of Punjab stood up for and visited a Christian girl in jail, he ended up being murdered by his own bodyguard.

[Rehman Chishti]

I know more than many others about that issue. I lost my good friend Benazir Bhutto to radicalisation. She was two weeks away from winning an election, after which things could have changed. We had discussed reforming the blasphemy laws, but she was never able to do that. That is the problem in Pakistan, and the hon. Gentleman has highlighted it very well. The governor of Punjab, Salman Taseer, had raised the case of Asia Bibi, a Christian. She is a 46-year-old mother of six children, and she is still in prison in Pakistan. She was supposed to be pardoned by the President in 2010, but owing to pressure from the radical right, she was never freed. That was totally unacceptable. Pope Benedict said that what was happening to her was unacceptable and called for her release. However, she is still in prison in Pakistan and facing the death penalty. People in Pakistan stand up for her, but they know what the dangers are.

However, this does not mean that the Government of Pakistan cannot stand up and do the right thing by repealing a bad law. That bad law is the blasphemy law, and the abuse of that law must be dealt with. It is used to settle disputes between one neighbour and another, under sections that were brought in between 1980 and 1986 by General Zia, who was himself a radical. He was an extremist, and he introduced a section that stated that anyone who defamed the Prophet had to be killed. That is totally unacceptable. Those sections of the blasphemy law that were brought in during the Zia era are bad law and they have to go. The Pakistan Government could and should do that, but, as has been mentioned, Governments themselves face certain pressures. They can stand up, as the Minister with responsibility for minorities, Shahbaz Bhatti, a Christian, did. He said that this law was wrong, but what happened to him? He was killed. What happened to Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab? He said it was wrong and he was killed. So we have to understand the difficulties for Governments in changing these laws, but they have to change them.

[Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

I have listened with great care to the debate because the policy that I supported in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is the subject of a certain amount of criticism. What my hon. Friend is touching on is important, in that it is about the pressure of culture on governance. That is present in not only Pakistan, but in a number of Arab countries. It makes it difficult for Governments who would like to respond in the manner that we would all wish, but they cannot because they are frightened, sometimes to death, by their populations. What we are talking about today is as much an issue of culture that needs to change, as governance. We all wish that the problem was easier to solve than it appears to be.

[Rehman Chishti]

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for that important comment. Before I address it, may I thank him for all the hard work he did when he was an FCO Minister, especially in the Asia Bibi case? He made representations to the Government of Pakistan, as has the high commissioner in Pakistan, Adam Thomson, to whom I have spoken about this. My right hon. Friend makes a point about how one deals with the culture. A significant part of that is about changing hearts and minds, which is linked to the aid we give certain countries. If it is used properly, we can deal with the issue of changing hearts and minds.

Amnesty International has said that the blasphemy laws in Pakistan are a form of religious persecution and that they should be repealed. I entirely agree with every word that has been said on that point.

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman is making a fantastic speech, on which I congratulate him. Is the message that is coming strongly from his speech that when persecution takes root, no matter where it is aimed, it ultimately ends in the persecution of a number of people in society to whom one would never have imagined it happening at the beginning? As he well knows, the persecution extended so far in Pakistan that it led to the death of his friend Benazir Bhutto. In some ways, that was an end point to that very sad persecution—it went everywhere.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rehman Chishti]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point; he is right and I have nothing further to add.

Apart from repealing the blasphemy laws in Pakistan, because that may take time, what can we do now to push the Government of Pakistan to deal with those laws? Pakistan’s ambassador to the United States has made comments that are similar to my view, as has Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali. He says, and I say, that, first, these laws should not be dealt with by the lower courts in Pakistan, because they are more susceptible to corruption and intimidation by religious groups in the communities; secondly, that specialised prosecutors should deal with blasphemy laws in that country; and, thirdly, that specific judges have to deal with blasphemy laws. When I was on a flight from Karachi to Islamabad last year, I met 12 high court judges and a supreme court judge there. I asked them whether I could raise certain points with them and they said that I could. I then asked whether I could raise the point about the blasphemy laws in Pakistan and they said of course I could. However, when I asked why the blasphemy laws were abused in Pakistan, the high court judges said to me, “No blasphemy law is abused in Pakistan.” If that is the mentality of judges at the high court in Pakistan, what hope does anyone have of justice in that country? That is why I say that specific judges trained to deal with blasphemy issues should deal with these cases.

The other thing that should happen is that there should be a body in the Ministry of Interior and Narcotics Control that authorises prosecutions, because in that way the process would not be subject to intimidation at any local level. If allegations are made, cases would have to go to a specific cell in that Ministry that deals with blasphemy laws and if it gives authorisation, a charge should follow. In that way, we could deal with some abuses that are going on at the moment. That would go some way to dealing with such cases, but other people may have other suggestions for dealing with them.

There is another way of addressing this issue. President Zardari could have done it in 2010. I know that well because I raised it with him, but he was not able to pardon Asia Bibi. We are all entitled to have our own separate faiths and beliefs but let us think about Asia Bibi. She is 46 and has five children and has been languishing in prison for four years. She was condemned to death by a lower court, not knowing whether her appeal would come through. Is that a civilised world? Is that right and proper if it happened to one of us or someone we loved? Absolutely not. The Government of Pakistan under a new President and Prime Minister have a moral obligation to do the right thing and ensure that Asia Bibi is released and pardoned.

Finally, when those who are persecuted for their faith seek asylum in another country, they should be given priority. Someone being persecuted in that way could be taken outside and shot under the blasphemy laws, so giving priority to those who are seeking asylum and who have been persecuted on grounds of their faith is the right way forward.

Iran and Syria

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Monday 11th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

We are looking at that and at related issues. We are making a huge contribution to humanitarian aid, but our biggest difficulty is getting the aid through, even if it can be financed. On the matter raised by the right hon. Gentleman, there can be considerable legal difficulties, as well as the additional difficulty of ensuring that, if aid is passed to various groups, it really goes for humanitarian purposes. We are looking at such issues, however, and I will undertake to update him about them.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

The Foreign Secretary will be aware of national coalition statements that President Assad can have no role to play in the transition. The Foreign Secretary will also have seen a recent statement from the regime, which says that it will attend the conference “in principle” but will not negotiate with “terrorists”, referring to the opposition. The regime also says that any political solution will not involve Mr Assad’s departure. In the light of those comments, how optimistic is the Foreign Secretary about the success of Geneva II? Finally, he says that the six countries in Geneva had different opinions on Iran. Out of those six countries, which one had the greatest reservations about Iran’s concessions?

[Mr Hague]

To be clear on the six countries, I have said that they presented the same united position to Iran. I pointed out that they are entitled to put forward their views and amendments and so on, but the end product was that all six countries put the same united position to Iran. It is important that the House bears that in mind.

My hon. Friend’s points on a Geneva II conference on Syria illustrate the formidable difficulty of bringing such a conference together. That difficulty is widely acknowledged. It would be unrealistic to expect that the parties to the conflict will arrive at Geneva II stating similar positions. The regime will of course say that approaching negotiations does not imply that President Assad will go, and the opposition, when their people are suffering so much at the hands of Assad, will of course say that, in a transition by mutual consent, he will have to go. It would be absolutely astonishing if either said anything different from that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Tuesday 29th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

What the Government have already shown in their three and a half years in office is that they have been able to bring powers back to this country: through the reform of the fisheries policy, which has abolished the practice of discarding that the hon. Gentleman’s Government tried and failed to reform in their 13 years in office; in getting a cut on the budget for the European Union; and in getting us out of the bail-out mechanism to which his Government committed us. That is a fine track record on which to look forward with high hopes for the future.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

T5. The UN envoy, Mr Brahimi, is in Syria today and he has said that President Assad can play a constructive role in the transition in Syria. The Friends of Syria group has said that President Assad can play no role in the transition, so what is the UK’s position on whether he can play any such role?

[Mr Hague]

It was agreed in Geneva last year that a transitional Government in Syria would have full executive authority, and that it would be formed from regime and opposition “by mutual consent”. That phrase is very important; I do not think anyone can envisage circumstances in which opposition groups in Syria would give their consent to President Assad being part of that transitional Government.

Middle East Peace Process/Syria and Iran

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

That is a good question, to which we cannot be certain of the answer. The hon. Gentleman illustrates the extent of the problem very well. It is important that the Security Council has agreed such a statement, because that means that it has been agreed by Russia, among others, and it is Russia that has produced the decisive change in the regime’s attitude on chemical weapons. Therefore, we hope that our colleagues in the Russian Government will join us in demanding from the regime the necessary access on the back of the presidential statement. I will keep the House informed of progress on that.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) for doing an outstanding job and, on a personal level, for always being courteous, helpful and understanding. I thank him for that.

It has been said that Iran is prepared to support a transition in Syria without President Assad—a transition between the regime and the opposition. Does the Foreign Secretary have an analysis of that and has he discussed that with the Foreign Minister of Iran?

[Mr Hague]

Yes, I have discussed these issues with the Foreign Minister of Iran. As I said in answer to some earlier questions, I have put the case to the Iranians that they should be supporting the Geneva communiqué of last year that there should be a transitional Government in Syria drawn from regime and opposition by mutual consent. As I understand it, and as I have heard the Iranians talk about it, that is not currently their position, but they have not ruled out adopting that position. I will continue to encourage them to do so so that the international consensus around last year’s Geneva communiqué will be greatly strengthened.

Syria

Rehman Chishti Excerpts

Thursday 12th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

If the hon. Gentleman thinks that he was opposing an immediate military strike when he voted against the Government’s motion, he is deluding himself to the most extraordinary extent. That motion called for a second vote, for the House to await the findings of the United Nations inspectors, and for an attempt to be made to raise the matter strongly at the United Nations Security Council. I think that the self-delusion lies with him.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

It has often been said that the international community will hold the Assad regime accountable for the massacre on 21 August in which than 1,400 people were killed. Is that still the case, and, if so, how will the international community hold the regime accountable?

I join the Foreign Secretary in paying tribute to Sir Mark Lyall Grant, our fantastic ambassador to the United Nations, whom I know well, and who does a great job.