European Union (Withdrawal Arrangements) Bill

Debate between Peter Dowd and Robin Swann

2nd reading
Friday 6th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Peter Dowd]

The framework attempts to do that, and there is nothing, I suspect, that prevents those issues being teased out in more detail as time goes by, but at the end of the day, I do not live in a perfect world—I do not know about anybody else. I have constituents, for example, who have been unable to get access to drugs, and that is nothing to do with this issue; it is to do with a whole range of matters that have developed over the past 14 years in relation to Government policy, but I do not want to go there. I and other hon. Members are trying to do the best we possibly can, given the circumstances we have inherited. I know that might be cold comfort for some Members across the Chamber, but it is said with the best intent and with sincerity. It is not to brush this matter aside; it is a recognition that there are challenges, but those challenges were bound to crop up given some of the points I raised earlier.

[Robin Swann]

rose—

[Jim Shannon]

rose—

[Peter Dowd]

I will give way first to the hon. Member for South Antrim (Robin Swann) and then to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon).

[Robin Swann]

I thank the hon. Member for making that point. It looks like I will not get to make a speech, but I want to put on the record that the Ulster Unionist party actually campaigned to remain in the European Union. We thought it best at that point, because we foresaw exactly what is happening now. We respect the referendum of this United Kingdom, but we are now seeing the enabling of what we were concerned about because of the lack of interest in this House with regard to some of the regulations that are coming through and how they are applied to Northern Ireland. The hon. Member mentioned medicines. Yes, we have supply issues, which are global issues, but we also have additional supply issues because of regulation from the European Union.

[Peter Dowd]

As far as I am aware, the framework attempts to tackle some of those issues. I completely accept that the hon. Member maybe does not accept that or does not want to accept it; I do not know. I am not casting aspersions at all on the integrity or beliefs of Members. At no time do I say anything that denies the right of people to hold the views that they hold, which are clearly, deeply and obviously felt. In a way, I actually celebrate those differences.

--- Later in debate ---

[Peter Dowd]

I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s position, but again, I disagree with his assertion.

[Robin Swann]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Peter Dowd]

Just a moment. If the right hon. Gentleman wishes to call a Westminster Hall debate in relation to a whole series of breaches of treaties—[Interruption.] I know that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) will be in his place for a Westminster Hall debate whoever secures it. If anyone wants to secure a Westminster Hall debate to tease out those matters in a little bit more detail and in an atmosphere that is a little less fraught, I would be more than happy to be there either as the Chair or as a participating Member.

[Robin Swann]

Will the hon. Member give way?

[Peter Dowd]

I am coming to a close, but I will give way. I have found this subject to be crucial to the wider constitutional and democratic process of which we are all supportive. There are times when people are unhappy with decisions, and I suspect that the hon. Gentleman will continue to be unhappy, so I will let him speak.

[Robin Swann]

It is not that I am unhappy, and I applaud the hon. Member for the tone he has brought to the debate in opposition to the Bill; it is that we want to see a resolution to these things. He talks about breaking agreements and when trust is removed, which brings me back to my intervention about the Belfast agreement and how Lord Trimble said that the protocol

“demolishes the agreement’s central premise by removing the assurance that democratic consent is required to change Northern Ireland’s status.”

I gently remind the hon. Member of that persuasion.

I am also reminded of the contribution that Lady Sylvia Hermon made when she was in this place in challenging the former Deputy Prime Minister about the Belfast agreement. When he started to talk about it, she simply asked whether he had read it. I simply encourage any hon. Members in opposition to the Bill to ensure that they have actually read the Belfast agreement before quoting it.

[Peter Dowd]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. I was going to quote from the Belfast agreement in detail, but I decided not to do so. I did read it, and I remember it at the time as well. I implore him not to push me on that matter.

There are times when I have been unhappy with the decisions made. I have been perplexed when, during the Parliaments I have been part of, conventions and understandings that had been in operation for decades were pushed aside for short-term political expediency. It is one thing to go down that path in the operation of the workings of this House, but it is another to invoke that type of approach when dealing with agreements and treaties, especially when those are with trading partners and neighbours.

I was tempted to explore the Bill clause by clause—all 25 of them—in this contribution, but I resisted—[Interruption.] I did, and it was born out of discipline and willpower. I decided not to test the patience of the Chair and hon. Members on both sides of the House. I will draw my contribution to a close, and hope that hon. Members across the House take what I have said in good faith and without any rancour.

Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner

Debate between Peter Dowd and Robin Swann

Tuesday 15th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Peter Dowd (in the Chair)]

I will call Robin Swann to move the motion and I will then call the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.

[Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the role of the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dowd, in this Westminster Hall debate—the first that I am sponsoring. I want to take this time to cover a number of points, the first being how these things came about and the need for them, the second being the current situation and why I have secured this debate, and the third being recommendations to the Minister as to how the office should be delivered to benefit our veteran community in Northern Ireland.

The New Decade, New Approach document, co- authored by the British and Irish Governments in January 2020, saw the restoration of the Northern Ireland Assembly after a three-year period in which it had failed to meet or establish an Executive. Under annexe A, which covered the UK Government’s commitments to Northern Ireland, there was a section entitled “Our commitments to veterans”, which contained four points. The first was:

“Introduce UK-wide legislation to further incorporate the Armed Forces Covenant into law and support full implementation of the Armed Forces Covenant.”

The second was:

“Appoint a Northern Ireland Veterans' Commissioner to act as an independent point of contact to support and enhance outcomes for veterans in Northern Ireland.”