Security in Northern Ireland

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Villiers]

We are committed to ensuring that the policing and security operation for the G8 summit is a success. Of course, appropriate resources will be allocated and we will make an announcement in due course, probably in January, about the budget.

As I have said, Prison Service officers also carry out their duties with dedication and courage and I am sure the whole House will join me in paying tribute to the work they do. They play a vital role in keeping people in Northern Ireland safe from harm and the Northern Ireland Prison Service keeps arrangements for the personal security of its officers under constant review. The director general of the service, Sue McAllister, is actively considering what further measures might need to be taken in the wake of the attack on David Black and the PSNI has a programme of security briefings under way for prison officers.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way and I apologise for not being in the Chamber from the start of the debate. She explained to the House how she and her colleague the Minister of State have responsibility for the home protection scheme. She is now discussing measures to be taken by the Prison Service and has mentioned measures to be taken by the police service, and following devolution they are the responsibility of the Justice Minister and the various agencies. Will she reassure the House that, although the responsibilities are separate, every effort is being made to ensure that the effectiveness of all the measures is joined together wherever possible?

[Mrs Villiers]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. I emphasise that working relationships between the Northern Ireland Office and the Justice Minister are very close and I discuss these matters with David Ford regularly, as well as with the Chief Constable. As the right hon. Gentleman said, a united effort that co-ordinates our respective areas of responsibility is crucial in combating terrorism. I have held a number of discussions about the David Black murder with the Chief Constable and the Justice Minister, and the Minister of State has been in discussions with the Prison Service, too.

The SPED scheme has been mentioned. It falls within the devolved space but I am happy to pass on the comments made today to the responsible Ministers in the Northern Ireland Executive. I am sure that they will wish to reflect carefully on the comments that have been made and I am sure that they take their responsibilities in this matter very seriously.

Personal protection weapons were also mentioned. Issuing or withdrawing personal protection is a matter for the Chief Constable, as the matter is devolved, and the only NIO involvement is when someone appeals against a decision made by the Chief Constable. The director general of the Prison Service met the PSNI recently to ensure that any prison officer who feels they need a PPW can apply to the police under the normal procedures. Following concerns raised after the murder of David Black, Sue McAllister said:

“I have checked and to my knowledge no prison officer has been told that his or her personal protection weapon is to be withdrawn”.

She went on to say:

“I will certainly be making sure that any prison officer who wishes to have a personal protection weapon will be able to apply to the police service as per our procedures.”

Oral Answers to Questions

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

The right hon. Gentleman raises a very serious issue. A whole number of legacy inquests—up to 32—are coming down the track. I would like to assure him formally that measures are in place under the existing arrangements that allow an inquest to go ahead fairly, but information that might be dangerous if released to individuals can be held back. There are measures that can be worked out, but the final decision rests with the coroner. Until now, these arrangements have worked well, and they will continue in their current guise.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Given that many of those historic inquests will doubtless require the disclosure of highly sensitive national security intelligence, what discussions has the Secretary of State had with the Justice Secretary about his decision not to provide for a closed material procedure in relation to inquests?

[Mr Paterson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that question. I have regular meetings with the Justice Secretary. I talked to him on the telephone this morning. [Interruption.] If the right hon. Gentleman would wait, I treat each case individually and remain in close touch with the local Justice Minister on such issues.

Oral Answers to Questions

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for mentioning that disgusting and deplorable murder. I spoke to the Chief Constable this morning, and I would remind the hon. Gentleman that we agreed a special package of £200 million at the request of the Chief Constable, who said in April last year:

“We have the resources, we have the resilience and we have the commitment.”

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

When he recently acquitted those charged with the murder of Tommy English, Mr Justice Gillen reminded us that the use of accomplice evidence is long established and, in the words of his judgment, is

“a price worth paying in the interest of protecting the public from major criminals”.

Will the Secretary of State confirm that the relevant provisions of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 will remain available to the PSNI?

[Mr Paterson]

I will check the exact details of those provisions and get back to the right hon. Gentleman.

Oral Answers to Questions

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 30th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The difficulty with that question, notwithstanding its notable ingenuity, is that it does not relate to the work of the Historical Enquiries Team, so we had better leave it there.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Historical inquiries into police officers are conducted by the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland. Given that that is a Crown appointment, what recent discussions has the Secretary of State held with the Minister of Justice, David Ford, on the appointment of a successor to the current ombudsman, Al Hutchinson, who has made it clear that he intends to leave his post at the end of January?

[Mr Paterson]

The appointment of the Police Ombudsman for Northern Ireland is a devolved matter. I spoke to the Minister of Justice, David Ford, this morning, and we agreed to meet shortly to discuss Al Hutchinson’s replacement.

Pat Finucane

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 12th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question. We are absolutely clear. We have been quite open about previous reports—Saville, Nelson, Billy Wright. They were uncomfortable, difficult reports but we came straight to the House of Commons as soon as we could and made a statement. We intend to do that, whatever Sir Desmond uncovers.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

As others have said, the path to peace in Northern Ireland has been based on a willingness to negotiate and to honour agreements. I regret, as others do, the fact that the Finucane family would not accept a public inquiry under the Inquiries Act, but does the Secretary of State not accept—I say this not to score points, but as a genuine supporter of the peace process in Northern Ireland—that there is a real risk that public confidence in the Government’s good faith will have been undermined by this decision and that cracking on, as he put it, is not always the best way in Northern Ireland? What I learned there was that it is never too late, and I urge him again to reconsider.

[Mr Paterson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that question and give credit to him for the work he did in his years as Minister with responsibility for security in Northern Ireland. We remain in touch—we even saw each other at the Conservative party conference last week, which he might be embarrassed to have on the record—and I am sorry that he does not agree. We had a problem. It was no good saying that we had inherited the Labour position of offering an inquiry under the Inquiries Act, which the family would not accept. We had to do something. We had to look at a way of resolving the issue, as we want to move on. I made it very clear to Mrs Finucane when I met her that we wanted to find a solution. Our solution was not to carry on with the impasse but to be imaginative. As I have said, I think our solution is bold and brave. I have great confidence that Sir Desmond will get to the truth and that we will come back here in December 2012 with a very robust report that will help move Northern Ireland on. It is not satisfactory that we do not know what happened in this case.

Murder of PC Ronan Kerr

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Monday 4th April 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend gives me an excellent opportunity to confirm that to my knowledge there is overwhelming support for the legitimate institutions and for the legitimate, peaceful parties—I cite as an example the minute’s silence at the Gaelic Athletics Association game yesterday in Tyrone, which is a very strong republican area. There is absolutely no place for political violence in Northern Ireland.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

May I also join the Secretary of State in extending my deepest sympathy to Mrs Kerr and her family? Does he share my concern that, more than two years on, those who were charged with the murder of Constable Stephen Carroll are still to come to trial? Will he take this opportunity to voice his strong support for Minister Ford’s efforts to speed up the justice system in Northern Ireland, so that those who go out to murder police officers will be reminded not only that they will be caught, but that if they are convicted they will spend most if not the whole of the rest of their lives in prison?

[Mr Paterson]

The right hon. Gentleman will have direct experience of these matters and I know that there has been frustration in the past about the slowness of the system, so I congratulate Justice Minister Ford on having introduced measures to speed things up. I also point out that there were 17 charges in 2009, that the number jumped to 80 in 2010 and that there have already been 16 charges this year, so we are definitely bringing in measures to speed things up.

Oral Answers to Questions

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 15th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We want to bring as broad a range of people as possible into the process of negotiation, so that when we arrive at a means of going forward, as many people as possible have bought into it.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State will know that the Attorney-General for Northern Ireland is in the process of reopening a large number of historical inquests, which will place significant additional financial burdens on the Courts Service and the police service. Given the Government’s responsibilities in relation to the past, how does the Secretary of State intend to approach the sharing of those costs?

[Mr Paterson]

The right hon. Gentleman played a key role in seeing those powers devolved. He will know that the administration of inquests is a devolved matter that is entirely in the hands of the Attorney-General for Northern Ireland. It would not be for us to interfere in the mechanics and financing of his Department, which are entirely down to the local Executive.

Northern Ireland

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 17th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), but I hope that I do not disappoint him with the length of my speech, which will be very short. As the Minister who, in January last year, took through the order to postpone the elections in 2009, I thought I owed the House at least one or two brief comments.

First, I thank the Minister for keeping the promise that I made in Committee last January that the Northern Ireland council elections would be held in 2011. Members of the Committee questioned what guarantees there would be that council elections would be held that year, and I asked them to back my judgment, which they did. I am not in a position to deliver on that judgment now, but the Minister is, and I thank him for following through my commitment.

The Minister explained that the reason for the delay was connected with the review of public administration, an initiative that began with the Executive in 2002. Direct rule Ministers took it over, but it then quite rightly returned to the Executive as their responsibility in 2007. Indeed, I remember that in 2007 Ministers in the Executive took up the issue with some relish because they could see the merits of greater efficiency by reorganising public bodies, whether health, police or local government.

In April 2008, the then Minister for the Environment, Arlene Foster, wrote to the then Secretary of State, my right hon. Friend the Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Mr Woodward), with a request that the council elections be delayed for two years to 2011. She made the compelling case on behalf of the Executive that the complexity of reorganising the local council structure and boundaries was quite a challenge: the single transferable vote system would require new council wards, new districts and new grouping of district electoral areas. Although we were reluctant to take the dramatic step of cancelling elections, we felt that, in view of the exceptional circumstances, it was justifiable and we introduced the necessary legislation.

I had further extensive discussions with Arlene Foster’s successor, the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson), and his successor in the role, Edwin Poots. It is of course a matter of regret that Edwin Poots wrote to the Minister in June this year to say that, for various reasons, it would be impossible to proceed with the changes to the local council boundaries. Great frustration was expressed about that, not least, I am sure, by the Minister himself because he will be able to see the advantages involved. None the less, these challenges must now be tackled by the Executive Members and by the Minister for the Environment in Northern Ireland, rather than by this House. Indeed, if I were to stray and to offer any more opinions to the right hon. Member for Belfast North and his colleagues, they would soon intervene on me.

Some concerns remain, however, and I should be interested to hear the Minister’s comments. Having now set the date for the council elections in 2011, the pressure for local government reform is off, in a sense, which is a pity because I am sure that the Minister in the Executive will want to see the reforms put in place, as will other Members of the Executive. There would be great dividends if that were possible. Will the Minister tell us tonight whether there are any signs of progress? If reform were to pick up apace, would he be prepared to come back to this House with a proposition to bring forward the date of the next local council elections in Northern Ireland, which would otherwise happen in 2015?

[Mr Dodds]

The right hon. Gentleman was much respected for the work he did as a Minister for Northern Ireland, but any notion of bringing forward the date of the next council elections from 2015 would not find favour with the parties in Northern Ireland, not least because it would be deeply unfair on those who had been elected on the basis of a four-year term suddenly to say to them, “Your term is going to be truncated.” So although I understand where he is coming from, and the sentiments that he has expressed, I urge him to rethink that proposition.

[Paul Goggins]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a fair point, but I am sure that he will share my concern, given his deep knowledge of the electoral system in Northern Ireland, that the council boundaries are way out of date. There is therefore some urgency in trying to move to new council boundaries that reflect a more modern approach. I do not expect a positive answer from the Minister about bringing forward the date of the next local council elections after 2011, but I urge all right hon. and hon. Members to see this as an urgent matter and not one that can simply be left on the shelf. I am concerned that, with the introduction of the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill, attention will now be focused more on constituencies and away from local government structure in Northern Ireland, and anything that will maintain the sense of urgency about the need for the local government reform will be a good thing. I repeat, however, that these are no longer matters for this House; they have now quite rightly been devolved to the Executive in Northern Ireland.

There is also the question of the practical implications of holding the various elections on the same day. I know that the Minister said he had consulted on this, and that he was confident they could all be held on the same day. I pay tribute to all those who administer the elections in Northern Ireland professionally and effectively, and I do not call into question their ability to conduct those elections one bit, but there is a debate about the various issues that are at stake: elections to the Assembly, elections to local councils and, probably, the question of whether to have an alternative vote system or not. That has been debated endlessly elsewhere. We are talking about elections using the single transferable vote system for councils and for the Assembly, which is very complicated and takes time. I urge the Minister to keep up the pressure on those who will administer the system to make sure that all the right questions are asked and answered.

There is the further point—I am sure that Minister will have considered it—that if the Fixed-term Parliaments Bill is passed as drafted, in 2015 we will have council elections, a general election and Assembly elections on the same day, using different—possibly very different—electoral systems and under new boundaries. This will be the height of complication. Again, I urge the Minister to pay close attention. He said in the course of his remarks that his neck is on the line. I well know that feeling, but I am sure he will do a fine job.

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

Surely the height of complication would be the situation in American states such as Montana, where people voted for the American President, for the Congress, for the state governor, in state elections and sometimes even in local elections—sometimes with additional propositions as well. They seem to manage it in Montana, so surely they could manage it in Northern Ireland.

[Paul Goggins]

I am not saying that those who administer elections in Northern Ireland would be incapable of doing so. I am simply making the point that this will place a burden on the system in Northern Ireland that it has never faced before. There are also implications for the electoral cycle. In perpetuity—unless the Minister offers alternatives—council elections and Assembly elections will always be held on the same day in Northern Ireland on a four-year cycle. Again, I think that should be a cause for reflection. However, I have nothing but good wishes for the Minister in ensuring that all these issues are dealt with. I am sure he will do very well. In so far as he ensures that these elections are held properly in 2011 and subsequently, he will have my full support.

Bloody Sunday Inquiry (Report)

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

The hon. Lady touches on one of the many terrible “what ifs”. The report shows so many turns, where, if decisions had gone the other way, the event might not have happened. She refers to Chief Superintendent Frank Lagan, who was the local senior RUC commander. She knows from her close family experience the huge debt that we owe all those in the RUC. Interestingly, Chief Superintendent Lagan said that, despite the ban on all parades and marches at that time, he thought that the march should go ahead all the way through to Guildhall square. He was overruled by Sir Graham Shillington in discussion, as the report states, with senior Army officers, who decided that it would be better if the march was turned down Rossville street. The hon. Lady touches on a poignant moment, when perhaps, if the advice had been taken, events could have been different. Of course, the advice could have been wrong. All we can do is accept the facts as they are presented by Lord Saville, and see what we can learn for the future.

We should reflect not just on the report, but on the reaction to Lord Saville’s conclusions and the Prime Minister’s statement. The whole House will have seen the memorable pictures broadcast around the world showing the response of the families and crowds in the Guildhall square in Derry. The families of those killed and those injured had fought a long and determined campaign over 38 years to prove the innocence of their loved ones.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

I am sure that the whole House wants to join the Secretary of State in paying tribute to the families for the dignity and resilience that they have shown over so many years. I first met them officially to discuss the publication of the Saville report in April 2008—some two-and-a-half years ago. I promised them then that, although the report had to come to Parliament first, they would not be disadvantaged in gaining access to it or being able to comment on it on the day. I thank the Secretary of State and the Minister of State for honouring the many complex arrangements that my right hon. Friend the Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Mr Woodward) and I drew up at the time to ensure that the families could have the benefit of as much access as possible to the report on the day. I thank him for honouring those commitments when he took up his position.

[Mr Paterson]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman very much for his kind comments. I pay tribute to his work over the years as Minister of State for Northern Ireland. He is still fondly remembered by the people there for all his good work.

I would like to take the opportunity to record my gratitude for the hard work of my officials and the Department in successfully managing the report’s publication. As the right hon. Member for Wythenshawe and Sale East (Paul Goggins) said, we built on some of the plans left by my predecessor. I met the families and discussed the matter in detail. The publication was a major international event, with 419 press passes issued for the Guildhall square alone. It is also right to draw hon. Members’ attention to other responses to the report that received less coverage, but which are none the less important in illustrating the broad acceptance that Lord Saville’s report received.

The leaders of the three main Protestant churches in Ireland made a symbolically important visit to the Bogside shortly after publication. The First Minister, Peter Robinson, publicly indicated his acceptance of Lord Saville’s findings. Senior military figures, including the Chief of the Defence Staff, General Sir David Richards, and the former Chief of the General Staff, General Sir Mike Jackson, joined the Prime Minister in his apology for the events of Bloody Sunday.

I want to make it absolutely clear, as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister did, that Bloody Sunday was not the defining story of the Army’s service in Northern Ireland. Between 1969 and 2007, more than 250,000 people served in Operation Banner—the longest continuous operation in British military history.

Our armed forces displayed immense courage, dedication and restraint in upholding democracy and the rule of law in Northern Ireland. We should not forget that more than 1,000 members of the security forces lost their lives, and many thousands more were injured, for that cause. Nor should we forget that the security situation in Northern Ireland had been deteriorating steadily since 1969. As Lord Saville outlines in volume I of the report, those who lost their lives included two RUC officers—Sergeant Peter Gilgunn and Constable David Montgomery were killed by the IRA three days before Bloody Sunday. They were the first police officers killed in the city during the troubles.

Terrorism (Northern Ireland)

Paul Goggins Excerpts

Tuesday 6th July 2010 Westminster Hall

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

It is good to see you in the Chair this morning, Mr Chope.

I want to begin by congratulating the hon. Member for South Antrim (Dr McCrea) on securing this debate and indeed I thank him for doing so. At the outset, he described it as the most difficult debate in which he had ever spoken at Westminster, but he spoke eloquently and very movingly, not least about the difficult emotions that he faced on 15 June when the Saville report was published. We all remember that day, and the measured, sympathetic and unequivocal terms in which the Prime Minister spoke; I welcomed that approach very warmly indeed. We also remember that my hon. Friend the Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), who is with us this morning, read out with great emotion the names of his constituents who were exonerated by the Saville report.

Furthermore, I remember, as others will, the very moving statement from the hon. Member for South Antrim on 15 June, when he spoke about the civilian construction workers who were murdered in Teebane in 1992. He also spoke about his cousin Derek, who was murdered in 1991, and about his cousins Robert and Rachel, who were murdered in 1976. He asked on 15 June:

“How do we get justice, and how do we get the truth?”—[Official Report, 15 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 755.]

He has asked those same questions again this morning, and he has reminded us that often the victims are not high-profile; they are often lonely and isolated, and they often go unheeded. I think that it was important that he read out and put on the record some of the names of those forgotten victims of the troubles of Northern Ireland.

I feel that we must tread very carefully in this territory, particularly those of us who are not from Northern Ireland. We must approach a debate such as this one with great humility and with real respect for the unresolved emotions and feelings of anger, injustice, grief and sadness, which in many cases will simply never go away, certainly not in this life.

We have much to celebrate today about Northern Ireland and the progress that has been made. The tragic pictures graphically painted by the hon. Member for South Antrim are, in a very real sense, a thing of the past—we have moved on. Right hon. Members and hon. Members in Westminster Hall today have played a great part in that, along with others, by taking us through the peace process and the political progress that has happened as a result of the Good Friday agreement, the St Andrews agreement and, most recently, the Hillsborough Castle agreement.

As the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) reminded us, today we must of course recognise the tremendous work that has been done in providing practical support to victims in Northern Ireland over the years. That work has been funded by Government in some respects but it has also been helped by voluntary organisations too. However, we come back to the fact that there is still much to do in relation to the past; there is still much that faces us in the search for closure, to which the hon. Member for South Antrim referred.

Of course, one way of trying to achieve that closure is holding public inquiries, and we have heard much about the Saville inquiry. I was pleased that on 15 June, the Prime Minister insisted on focusing on the substance of the Saville report, rather than on controversial issues about the length of time taken to conduct the inquiry and its cost. I hope that the report will enable the families involved and the wider community to move on, as we all wish to see.

There are other public inquiries, of course. Will the Minister, in his summing up, tell us what progress he can report in relation into the Robert Hammill inquiry, the Rosemary Nelson inquiry and the Billy Wright inquiry? All of the reports from those inquiries need to be published. Can he tell us what arrangements he is putting in place for doing so? For example, will they be the subject of statements to the House?

Another issue arising from the negotiations at Weston Park in 2001 is the question of a public inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane. I know of and fully respect the desire of the Secretary of State not to rush to judgment on that issue; he wants to meet the family first and have a discussion with them. Nevertheless, can the Minister give us some sense of the time scale involved in relation to that issue and about the discussions that the Secretary of State wishes to have?

There are other cases where there are campaigns for public inquiries, but no such inquiry is promised. One of those campaign is being pursued by the families of 11 people who lost their lives in the Ballymurphy area in August 1971, and the Minister was pressed on that issue last week. Can he tell us what consideration he has given to that particular campaign, and whether or not he or the Secretary of State will meet representatives of the families in the near future?

Another way of trying to examine the events of the past is by holding inquests, which we sometimes fail to remember are a very important form of public inquiry. Before the devolution of policing and justice powers in Northern Ireland, there were about 20 outstanding historic inquests. Many of them have been delayed because of legal challenges and because they were subject to judgments by the European Court of Human Rights. Although the coronial system in Northern Ireland is devolved, the Minister will retain a significant interest in many of these inquests, because of the national security issues involved. I wonder if he can give us an update on the progress of those outstanding historic inquests and if he can tell us whether the newly appointed Attorney-General has yet exercised his powers to reopen inquests in certain cases. If the Attorney-General has exercised those decision-making powers, how many inquests have been reopened? If any have been reopened, what is the cost and who will bear it?

A further way of dealing with tragedies in the past has been through the Historical Enquiries Team, which we heard about from a number of right hon. and hon. Members. It was established in 2005 to review all the deaths attributed to the conflict between 1969 and 1998—3,268 deaths in all. I want to place on record my appreciation to the former Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Sir Hugh Orde, who established and pursued this very innovative approach to trying to deal with the unresolved deaths of the past. I believe that he should be given great credit for that and I hope that the whole House will join me in expressing that view.

The Committee of Ministers of the Council of Europe described the HET as playing an important role in bringing “a measure of resolution” to those affected. The HET enables the state to meet its obligations under article 2 of the European convention on human rights, but more importantly it offers information and explanations to families who are still grief-stricken and bewildered years after the murder of their loved ones.

In his statement to the House on the Saville inquiry, the Prime Minister made much of the work of the HET. However, the £34 million of additional funding that the previous Government made available for the HET runs out next March. Will the Minister tell us whether he has had any discussions with the Northern Ireland Justice Minister, David Ford, about the future funding of the HET? This is a very pressing issue, because with pressure on policing budgets and—who knows?—even greater pressure after the comprehensive spending review the problem will become even more acute in Northern Ireland: every pound that is spent on policing the past is a pound that is not spent on policing the present. Indeed, we were reminded in this morning’s debate of the importance of some issues facing Northern Ireland and the importance of putting resources into dealing with the challenges that remain. I therefore wonder if the Minister can enlighten us on any discussions that he has had with the Northern Ireland Justice Minister about the future funding of the HET.

Individual investigation alone, through public inquiries, inquests and the HET, cannot provide deeper answers in the search for truth and reconciliation, which require a wider process that engages the whole of Northern Ireland society. In my view, Robin Eames, Denis Bradley and their colleagues in the Consultative Group on the Past deserve great credit for beginning the process at least of searching for that truth. They said that dealing with the past is a process, not an event, and I agree. Although their conclusions may be imperfect and subject to criticism across Northern Ireland for many different reasons, they are at least a start. The report reflects considerable work and many public meetings and submissions.

I welcome the confirmation last Wednesday that the Government intend to publish a summary of the responses to the previous Government’s consultation on their proposals. It is easy to understand why proposals for a £12,000 recognition payment were rejected out of hand universally, but it is more difficult to begin to tease out what is required for genuine reconciliation.

Eames and Bradley say that two ingredients are essential to the search for reconciliation: forgiveness and truth. Those words are easy to say, but much harder to pursue in practice. It is hard, if not impossible, for some people to forgive. Some, of course, are not yet seeking forgiveness because they still do not regard what they did as wrong. The search for truth is problematic because people have different versions of the truth, and some—although I am not one of them—would argue that we will never get at the truth fully while the possibility of prosecution remains, and that the search for truth requires the removal of that possibility. The experience of the Northern Ireland (Offences) Bill demonstrates that although the people and politicians of Northern Ireland may be prepared to speed up the process of justice using early release from prison and so on, they are not prepared to circumvent it altogether.

Eames and Bradley point to many interesting and important initiatives such as healing through remembering, storytelling and days of recollection. In my personal view, there is much to be gained by working with Churches, voluntary organisations and trained volunteers in quieter and less high-profile ways to take people through the healing process, hopefully releasing them from the grip of some of their terrible memories as everybody tries to face the future. It will not be a perfect reconciliation. The hon. Member for South Antrim made the point that in the end, there are some people whom perhaps only God can heal. However, we must try. We must use Eames-Bradley and other initiatives as a stepping stone to move forward and face the issues.

On dealing with the past, I would like to ask the Minister about the independent commission for the location of victims’ remains. Great credit is due to Kenneth Bloomfield and Frank Murray for the way in which they have led that initiative. It is traumatic not only to lose a loved one but never to be able to find their body because it is buried who knows where. The commission has taken on the heroic task of helping families by uncovering such information. It has had some success, but what assessment has the Minister made of the commission’s work, and what future does he believe it has?

I shall conclude by pressing the Minister on two issues that I believe are important now. First, what is the new coalition Government’s attitude on the holding of public inquiries? In his statement on the Saville inquiry, the Prime Minister said that

“there will be no more open-ended and costly inquiries into the past.”—[Official Report, 15 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 741.]

However, in answer to questions on the statement, he said that

“we should look at each case on its merits”.—[Official Report, 15 June 2010; Vol. 511, c. 744.]

Those statements are clearly contradictory. Those considering future inquiries as a way of resolving the problems of the past—whether a Finucane inquiry or the inquiry demanded by the families of the Ballymurphy victims—will need to know where they stand. It is important that we understand clearly and as soon as possible what the Government’s approach is.

Secondly, what does the Minister understand to be the role and responsibility of central Government alongside the roles and responsibilities of the devolved Executive in Northern Ireland? Only last week, the Commission for Victims and Survivors laid at the door of central Government in London and Dublin the responsibility for taking matters forward, yet on the very same day, the Secretary of State said that

“we cannot impose. It is up to people in Northern Ireland to work together to decide a strategy going forward.”—[Official Report, 30 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 848.]

I contend that there are responsibilities on all sides. We cannot simply abrogate our responsibilities to somebody else. Central Government have responsibilities, just like the Executive.

I end, as I began, by paying tribute to the hon. Member for South Antrim for reminding the House of the forgotten victims of the conflict in Northern Ireland. Their memory should reinvigorate and spur on our search for the truth and for reconciliation.