Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (First sitting)

Debate between Patrick Spencer and Mark Sewards

Committee stage
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Patrick Spencer (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

Q Thank you, Mr Gerrard, for coming to give evidence. I want to put on the record my support for the premise of supporting community shops and stores and providing somewhere for people to go to do their shopping, but you mentioned that the provisions in the Bill will make distribution more expensive. Should we not be more concerned that home delivery, which we know is very important to vulnerable customers, will be more expensive as a result of the Bill?

Paul Gerrard: I think I am right in saying that the Co-op has the biggest quick-commerce business in the country. People order through aggregators and their orders are delivered from our stores; that is something that we have within our business model. Clearly, there will be costs going on to some of the depots and distribution centres and, to keep this revenue neutral, that will bring extra costs. I think that is the price of revenue neutrality. In the round, the impact on small stores and local shops will outweigh the potential risk around home delivery. As I said, we have a home delivery business; I think our quick-commerce business is the biggest in the country for small, quick deliveries. You are right to flag the risk, but in balance we would say that it is a positive thing that we are supporting brick and mortar shops as much as we can.

[Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)]

Q Thank you, Mr Gerrard, for your answers so far; they have been really insightful. We have Co-op shops in my constituency; the Co-op in New Farnley is virtually the only shop in that community. It was an absolute lifeline throughout the pandemic, and it is still a lifeline today, given that there are not other shops. We have had some questions about consistency. Obviously, the aim of the Bill is to provide consistency for businesses—especially those in retail, hospitality and leisure—by providing lower multipliers. You have said how beneficial it will be for about 92% of your properties. Can you talk more broadly about the potential benefits for other retailers?

Paul Gerrard: Certainly. I will make a couple of points. The last time I looked, about 95% of retail was microbusinesses with fewer than 10 employees. From the data I have seen, 98% of retail stores have a rateable value below £500,000. So this helps 92% of the Co-op but, from what I have seen, it helps 98% of the broader retail sector.

In my experience and the Co-op’s experience, high streets and precincts are not made by one business, but you often get one business beginning to drive vibrancy in that place. If one business can make it work, you attract custom and those customers might want to buy other things, so you will get a ripple effect from that. I think this will help communities, because it will make it much more viable for those small stores—either independent traders, or small stores of national businesses like the Co-op—to be in communities. I think the ripple effect will be significant. As I said before, there is a commercial thing there, but, as you alluded to, there is a hugely important social and community perspective as well.

National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Patrick Spencer and Mark Sewards

2nd reading
Tuesday 3rd December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)]

It is clear to everyone on this side of the House that the measures in the Bill are a vital step towards securing the long-term stability of the public finances. We are not prepared to continue with the fiction that no difficult decisions are required to balance the books. Unlike the Conservatives, this Labour Government are not interested in more decline, more austerity or forcing the poorest in society to pay for the previous Government’s mistakes.

The decisions that we are taking are not easy. Increasing employer national insurance contributions to 15% is not easy. Reducing the secondary threshold to £5,000 is not easy. And, of course, constituents are absolutely right to ask me why this is happening. Well, that question would be best answered by the Conservatives.

The Conservatives crashed our economy, mortgage rates went through the roof, and billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money was wasted on a failed asylum system and on dodgy covid contracts. They promised the victims of the infected blood scandal that they would be compensated, but they did not put a single penny aside for it. They promised the same for the sub-postmasters. They promised 40 new hospitals, but they did not allocate anywhere near enough money to deliver them, and they are still pretending that they would not have given a single penny in pay rises to our public sector workers.

The Conservatives spent the national reserve three times over in the first three months of this financial year, and all before calling an election they expected to lose, so somebody else could clean up the mess. They chose to govern not in the national interest, but in their own interest. Some Conservative Members have been brave enough to come to the House today and remind us of their great legacy, but I have to tell them that 14 years of failure and a £22 billion black hole, leaving our nation on the brink of bankruptcy, is their legacy.

By making changes to national insurance contributions, we will be able to provide the funding to public services that is desperately needed, including, but not limited to, investing £25 billion in our NHS, recruiting 6,500 new teachers and providing local authorities with £600 million for social care.

[Patrick Spencer (Central Suffolk and North Ipswich) (Con)]

On that point, will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Mr Sewards]

I will not, as I want to ensure everybody gets in.

In addition, we are committed to protecting small businesses by increasing the employment allowance to £10,500. We are blessed in Leeds South West and Morley with hundreds of small businesses, right across the constituency, from Queen Street in Morley, to Wortley, and back again to Ardsley. I can say to many of them that the changes will mean that many small businesses will pay the same or less than they do now.

We will not run away from the difficult decisions—we back our country to succeed. Given the obvious opposition of Conservative Members to the measures, I ask them, how will they pay for our public services? Perhaps I need to give way at this point.

[Patrick Spencer]

I serve on the Education Committee with the hon. Gentleman, and I wonder what he will say to people who work in the education sector, many of whom are low paid and running schools that support teaching assistants to work with children with special educational needs and disabilities. They now face a bigger wage bill because of the measures the Government are introducing. Will the hon. Gentleman address those points?

[Mr Sewards]

In the minute remaining to me, I gently say to the hon. Gentleman that he needs to have a word with the Leader of the Opposition. The simple truth is that she has welcomed the positive spending plans that we have put forward in the Budget, but has rejected every revenue-raising measure we have suggested.

We are going to take the tough decisions, including those set out in the Bill, to fix the foundations of our economy and restore our public finances. The choice is pretty clear: a Labour Government who invest in our country’s future or a Conservative party still obsessed with fantasy politics based on saving the party, not our country. The choice is clear, and I know which side I am on.