National Insurance Contributions (Secondary Class 1 Contributions) Bill

Debate between Nusrat Ghani and Sammy Wilson

Committee of the whole House & 3rd reading
Tuesday 17th December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson]

This is a mentality—

[The Chairman of Ways and Means (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

Order. I, too, enjoy listening to the right hon. Gentleman, but it would really help if he could continue to speak to the Bill at hand, and not make broader comments.

[Sammy Wilson]

The mentality is that with these national insurance increases we are imposing more taxes on small businesses and on all the sectors I have spoken about. I would ask the hon. Gentleman what spending decreases could have been looked at—have any productivity impositions been put on the public sector, for example? That should be the answer, rather than asking, “Who should we tax to pay for the black hole?” Instead, we should be asking how we can reduce and reprioritise the things that we do; looking at some of the things the Government do at present that they do not need to do, or that they could do better, or that they could save money on.

I listened with bemusement to the hon. Member for Dartford (Jim Dickson), who was relieved by a survey in The Guardian in which more than 50% of those surveyed were quite happy with this tax. If there are so many Guardian readers happy to pay more taxes, I am sure the Scottish National party would love them all to move to Scotland, because it might solve some of the problems they have. These are the kinds of strained arguments that we have had from Government Members.

They know the impacts the Bill will have. I am sure they are having the same conversations with their constituents as I have had with the people who have spoken to me in my constituency office—the small businesses, those in the hospitality industry, the GPs and those in the care sector and the charitable sector, who have come to me and told me the impact it will have on their organisation. I do not believe we can run away from this, despite what will happen when we vote later today.

I do not share the optimism of the right hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart) that somehow little cabals will form on the Government Benches—that they will all start whispering, and maybe 10 of them will go to see the Chief Whip, and then next week it will be 20, and then, by the time there are 50 of them going to see the Chief Whip, this will all change. I do not share that optimism. What I do hope, however, is that the predictions that have been made about the Bill will finally resonate with the Chancellor, and we will see a change in policy.

Points of Order

Debate between Nusrat Ghani and Sammy Wilson

Monday 2nd December 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I wish to apologise to the House for my failure to declare an interest when tabling a parliamentary question to the Secretary of State for Business and Trade on 26 January 2024. When I tabled the question, I inadvertently neglected to declare my interest of a fact-finding trip to the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, which was paid for by the Turkish chamber of commerce. That was a breach of the rules. I apologise to the House for that error. I am grateful to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards for his time and care in rectifying this matter.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I thank the right hon. Member for his point of order. There will be no further points of order on that issue.

Great British Energy Bill

Debate between Nusrat Ghani and Sammy Wilson

2nd reading
Thursday 5th September 2024 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

The first two months of this Labour Government have not been good news for electricity consumers. First, the promise to save £300 per year on bills was demoted in the King’s Speech to, “We will do it in due course.” Then, during the recess, there was the announcement that the £300 for pensioners to help with winter fuel costs would be removed because the Government placed the importance of rewarding their trade union paymasters above the needs of vulnerable pensioners.

Just this week, the Government announced they would help the big energy companies and fill their pockets with extra money, guaranteeing those energy companies prices that are currently above the market rates for electricity. The companies will be guaranteed those prices for x number of years, but if the rates change to their benefit in the future, they can change the contracts and they will be guaranteed a market for their dear electricity. Who will pay for that generosity? The consumer.

Today we are debating a Bill that sets up a quango. Despite the fact there is a £20 billion black hole in the budget, the Government can find enough money to finance a new quango. All of this will be paid for by the electricity consumer. In his impassioned speech, the Secretary of State told us that it would be impossible to envisage anybody voting against the Bill and that, in fact, the country is clamouring for it. I have to say I have not had any constituents hammering on my door telling me, “Be there on Thursday, Sammy, and vote for this Bill.” In fact, I suspect if many members of the public were asked about GB Energy, they would probably think it is a new drink rather than some important Government Bill.

The Government have promised that they will create 17,000 new jobs in Northern Ireland, even though, as the hon. Member for Angus and Perthshire Glens (Dave Doogan) pointed out, the constitutional jurisdiction of the Bill does not even cover Northern Ireland. If one considers the Windsor framework and the fact that Northern Ireland is still under single market rules, many of the provisions in the Bill and the subsidies the Government are claiming could not be applied in Northern Ireland. Will the Minister confirm what role the Bill will have in Northern Ireland?

The Government’s main point is that the creation of Great British Energy will bring down prices for electricity consumers. The fact is that this Bill is all about having to spend money on new infrastructure to generate power well away from the centres of population, as well as putting in infrastructure to take that power to the consumer. That will require billions of pounds of investment. The Government say it will be done by the private sector, as if that solves it all. Of course, if the private sector puts in that investment, it will require a return. Where will that return come from? It will come from the consumer.

We already know, as it has been pointed out, that, according to Ofgem, two thirds of people’s electricity costs in the first quarter of this year were as a result of non-fuel costs. They included the cost of the infrastructure, the environmental policies, and the administration and the operating costs of the grid. Extending the grid, which we will have to do, will incur further costs and put up the price of electricity. That is why the Minister could not guarantee that the £300 saving will be delivered. He knows that the massive costs of changing our system will be borne by the electricity consumer. Whether we regard net zero as good or bad, let us not hide from the fact that it will cost people right across society. It will lead to industry facing higher costs, and consumers facing higher costs and greater fuel poverty.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)]

I call Michelle Scrogham to make her maiden speech.

Tata Steel: Port Talbot

Debate between Nusrat Ghani and Sammy Wilson

Monday 18th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

The answer is no. Under this deal we have protected jobs and ensured that we will continue to have a steelmaking facility in Port Talbot that supports the diversity in the supply chain. We also realise how uniquely important the blast furnaces in Scunthorpe are. We have talked about looking at hydrogen, but as I mentioned, it is untested at this scale to work within the timeframe that is needed. This deal is really good news for the UK steel sector, enabling it and us to reach our decarbonisation targets and ensuring that we are dealing not with virgin steel but with scrap steel in a way that can be recycled within UK industry. It ensures the longevity of the steel sector in Port Talbot.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

No matter what gloss is put on this today, 3,000 jobs have been sacrificed on the Government’s altar of net zero and decarbonisation. There can be no hiding from the fact that there are huge costs associated with this policy, and that they are becoming apparent week after week. Despite what the Opposition spokesperson said, the fact is that job losses are associated with this policy. We have seen it with steel, aluminium, oil and gas—we could go on and on. Will the Minister not accept that, as a result of this policy, we now have strategic industries under threat, we are losing jobs, we are putting greater pressure on taxpayers, we are pushing production overseas and we are making ourselves dependent on foreign producers?

[Ms Ghani]

The reality is that one of the furnaces in particular was coming to its end of life and the other was mature, so a decision had to be taken on whether the company would want to continue, considering the loss it was making every day in producing steel, or to transition to making cleaner steel. That was a commercial decision. It was important for us to ensure that steelmaking in Port Talbot would not disappear but continue, and this is the option that the company went for. It is the option that it has a supply chain for, and it was best that we supported it through this process and ensured that there were fewer job losses.

The reality is that any transition is going to impact jobs, which is why it is so important to ensure that support is available to enable people to skill up and transition. That is why the transition board has been set up with £100 million to help people on that journey. It is not fundamentally about achieving net zero; it is fundamentally about the age of the furnaces on the site, about the loss-making in the steel sector in the UK, particularly at this site, and about what decisions the company would take next. It was important for us to support the UK steel sector and provide it with £500 million—it has an overall envelope of £1.25 billion—to ensure that steelmaking continues in Port Talbot.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Debate between Nusrat Ghani and Sammy Wilson

Report stage
Wednesday 18th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

Absolutely. When decisions are taken either to amend or to revoke, the usual channels will be followed in Parliament. Committees will be put in place and decisions will be reviewed the Leaders of both Houses. Decisions can be taken openly and transparently. We also have the dashboard, which will be updated and already has thousands of EU laws on it.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

The Minister is right that the whole point of Brexit was to take control of our own laws. She is also right that there needs to be a single set of laws across the United Kingdom. But the Bill makes it clear that we will not have a single set of laws across the United Kingdom, because a wide range of laws in Northern Ireland are exempt from the provisions of the Bill. Furthermore, in future when EU law changes and applies in Northern Ireland, the gap between the laws in the rest of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland will get ever wider. Does she accept that unless the protocol is dealt with, there is a real danger that Northern Ireland will be treated differently and be constitutionally separated from the United Kingdom?

[Ms Ghani]

My right hon. Friend raises a very important issue. As it is sensitive, he must allow me a moment to ensure that my response is accurate. The UK Government are committed to ensuring that the necessary legislation is in place to uphold the UK’s international obligations, including the Northern Ireland protocol and the trade and co-operation agreement after the sunset date. The Bill will not alter the rights of EU nations that are protected, or eligible to be protected, by the relevant provisions in the Northern Ireland protocol. The Bill contains provisions that, when exercised appropriately, will ensure the continued implementation of our international obligations, including the Northern Ireland protocol.

It is our preference to resolve the Northern Ireland protocol issue through talks. The Government are engaging in constructive dialogue with the EU to find solutions to these problems. I must put on record that officials have been working with officials in Northern Ireland for the last 18 months. We know how important and sensitive this issue is.

COP27

Debate between Nusrat Ghani and Sammy Wilson

Monday 21st November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

The hon. Gentleman has a valid question. The negotiations are so fresh—the agreement was concluded yesterday and the negotiations are still ongoing to flesh out the detail—that I do not have a direct answer. It is still being negotiated. However, the UK contribution will continue to ensure high value for money for the UK taxpayer from that international support, and of course we are dedicated to making sure that we reach our target and our commitment to the loss and damage fund.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

While thousands of the great and the good, the chattering classes and the global warming zealots are flying out of Egypt today in their private planes and fleets of airlines, patting themselves on the back that for the 27th time they have saved the world, does the Minister accept that we still need reliable fossil fuel energy to drive our economy and to lift billions out of poverty in the developing world? Does she accept that many people across the United Kingdom who were hit with big tax rises last week will be concerned at the demand for even more billions to pay compensation because we industrialised first? Will she assure us that she will not be taken on some kind of ecological guilt trip and end up committing to pay billions in compensation when we are responsible for less than 1% of CO₂ emissions in the world?

[Ms Ghani]

There was so much in that question. Rest assured, I am never driven by any guilt trip whatsoever. I am not sure how far I can push the envelope, but there is a certain something about people flying in and out while we are trying to drive down greenhouse gas emissions. There is some hypocrisy there.

We know there is a huge issue at home. We are dealing with fuel bills, and one of the answers to that is making sure that we have a mix of energy. Going forward, we are absolutely committed to offshore and nuclear, which will provide us with a certain level of security and will help to manage our bills. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that we have to accept our contribution to global emissions, and even more so our leadership position. We will make sure we honour that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Nusrat Ghani and Sammy Wilson

Tuesday 25th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

Once again, my hon. Friend is a staunch advocate for North West Durham and its businesses, particularly Weardale Lithium. We are absolutely committed to ensuring that we have resilience and security of supply. The Government are committed to building domestic critical mineral supply chains and generating jobs and wealth across the UK—for example, by supporting lithium projects in County Durham via the automotive transformation fund. He has often spoken about China; resilience is key.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

The Government’s plan for net zero by 2050 is unplanned and uncosted. On top of that, we now have the difficulty of finding the metals that are needed for batteries, magnets and the required systems, because China controls 60% of earth metals. Only this week, a Finnish Government report indicated that there is not enough lithium in the world for the batteries that are required for motor cars and battery storage. How will the Government deliver on that unrealistic target?

[Ms Ghani]

There is indeed a race to secure critical minerals, especially when countries such as China own so much of them. By 2040, the world is expected to need four times as many critical minerals as we can access today for clean energy technologies, but there is work under way in collaboration with international partners and in the UK with the Critical Minerals Intelligence Centre.