Illegal Migration Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Tuesday 11th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call Dame Diana Johnson.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I start by agreeing with the Minister on the vital role that the other place plays as a revising Chamber—

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

Order. Sorry, Dame Diana. You are the next one to speak from your party, and I have made a faux pas. I should call Stuart C. McDonald.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Thursday 18th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order and advance notice of it. It is a very serious issue that he has raised. He has put his point on the record and shown that he is experienced enough to take appropriate steps even without any advice from the Chair.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker, I know that as a Parliament we are keen for members of the public to come to this place and see us at work. However, yesterday the Home Affairs Committee was interrupted by protesters and the session had to be suspended while the protesters were removed from the Committee Room. I just wondered whether, through you, Mr Deputy Speaker, I as the Chair of the Committee and the Members could thank the Clerks, the security staff and the police, who acted very quickly to ensure that the Committee was able to resume its very important work of scrutinising the policing of protests without much delay? I just wanted to put that on the record.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her point of order and for giving notice of it. I join her in thanking all the staff involved for their swift action yesterday, which enabled that important Committee sitting to continue after the disruption.

Contaminated Blood Scandal: Interim Payments for Victims

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Tuesday 19th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson]

Thank you for granting this urgent question today, Mr Speaker. The response from the Paymaster General is yet again wholly inadequate and insulting to those who have suffered so much over so many years. With over 3,000 people dead and over 419 of them dying in the five years since the public inquiry was called, and with one person dying every four days on average, people cannot wait a day longer than necessary.

As the Paymaster General set out at length, to avoid further delays the Government asked Sir Robert Francis QC in May 2021to undertake a parallel in-depth review of financial compensation ahead of the overall public inquiry concluding. Sir Robert found a “compelling case” for interim payments of at least £100,000 to those affected. Ministers have had these recommendations since March but they refused to publish them, saying that they wanted to publish their response at the same time. We waited and waited, then the review was leaked to The Sunday Times newspaper and the Government finally published in early June but not with their promised Government response. Last week, as the Paymaster General said, Sir Robert gave oral evidence at the public inquiry on 11 and 12 July, making the case again for interim payments.

The Government have already, rightly, granted £30 million of interim compensation for the Post Office Horizon IT scandal long before its public inquiry concludes, as well as interim payments for the Windrush scandal, but not for infected blood. Given the undoubted urgency, on 15 July Sir Brian Langstaff QC started a 10-day consultation on using his own powers to recommend interim payments ahead of his final report to which the Government will need to respond. Its 25 July deadline comes after the House enters the summer recess. As Mr Speaker has repeatedly said, this House should hear announcements first.

After decades of cover-up and appalling treatment, what exactly is preventing the Minister from announcing today, before the summer recess, that the interim payments recommended by the Government’s own independent reviewer will be paid? If not now, when? What is the timetable for the announcement on interim payments and on a response to the wider review? Will the Paymaster General tell me when we will see the Government’s submission, which I am sure his officials are preparing, to the independent inquiry on interim payments that Sir Brian has set up?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I gave the right hon. Lady some injury time there because the Minister overran, but I remind everybody that it is normally three minutes and two minutes.

Online Safety Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Report stage
Tuesday 12th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

I will answer the question about Standing Order No. 24 first, because I can deal with it immediately: clearly, if an application is made, Mr Speaker will determine it himself.

The principles concerning motions of no confidence are set out at paragraph 18.44 of “Erskine May”, which also gives examples of motions that have been debated and those that have not. “May” says:

“By established convention, the Government always accedes to the demand from the Leader of the Opposition to allot a day for the discussion of a motion tabled by the official Opposition which, in the Government’s view, would have the effect of testing the confidence of the House.”

I can only conclude, therefore, that the Government have concluded that the motion, as tabled by the official Opposition, does not have that effect. That is a matter for the Government, though, rather than for the Chair.

May I say that there are seven more sitting days before recess? As Deputy Speaker, I would anticipate that there will be further discussions.

We now have to move on with the continuation of business on the Bill.

New Clause 7

Duties regarding user-generated pornographic content: regulated services

“(1) This section sets out the duties which apply to regulated services in relation to user-generated pornographic content.

(2) A duty to verify that each individual featuring in the pornographic content has given their permission for the content in which they feature to be published or made available by the service.

(3) A duty to remove pornographic content featuring a particular individual if that individual withdraws their consent, at any time, to the pornographic content in which they feature remaining on the service.

(4) For the meaning of ‘pornographic content’, see section 66(2).

(5) In this section, ‘user-generated pornographic content’ means any content falling within the meaning given by subsection (4) and which is also generated directly on the service by a user of the service, or uploaded to or shared on the service by a user of the service, may be encountered by another user, or other users, of the service.

(6) For the meaning of ‘regulated service’, see section 2(4).”—(Dame Diana Johnson.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Tuesday 8th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank both hon. Members for their points of order. Clearly, this puts the Chair in an invidious position. Regarding any plaques being erected or what will follow on from the report, I have not had an opportunity to read the report myself at this time, so I cannot comment on it. However, there will be a business statement on Thursday at the normal time, and I suggest both Members turn up for that and ask the Leader of the House directly what will now transpire following the publication of that report.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is in the light of the many questions today during the urgent question about the humanitarian sponsorship pathway that the Government have announced. Yesterday, the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, in response to a question from the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy), said of that humanitarian sponsorship policy that,

“more details will be announced later today and later this week.”—[Official Report, 7 March 2022; Vol. 710, c. 17.]

I have checked on the departmental website and with the Vote Office, but there is no sign of any announcement being made yesterday as promised. Given the urgency and the questions raised today, what more can be done to hold the Secretary of State to account for the promise he made yesterday to this House?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her point of order. As I said earlier, Ministers are responsible for the answers they give. However, after today’s proceedings, some of which I have chaired, I think Ministers will be in no doubt whatsoever of the urgent desire for more details of the sponsorship scheme and that it should be clarified as quickly as possible. I hope the Treasury Bench will have heard that.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Thursday 24th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am pleased that the Prime Minister is due to make a statement to the House as 5 pm, but I was surprised that he made a television statement to the nation at 12 noon today. On the basis that we are a parliamentary democracy and that statements should, of course, be made first to this House, as Mr Speaker has made clear on a number of occasions, I wonder whether you have been given any indication of why it was not possible for the Prime Minister to do that today and whether, in fact, it is possible for a Minister to make two statements to the House, if necessary, as I understand there are meetings later today with NATO and the G7.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I have not received any information as to whether any statements will be made before the statement at 5 o’clock. These are exceptional circumstances. We all woke up this morning and saw what is happening. I think we are all devastated, as we have heard, and feel for the people of Ukraine.

If there are to be any additional statements, I am certain the House will be informed in the usual way. The right hon. Lady is right that Mr Speaker has made it absolutely clear that he prefers and wants statements to be made to Parliament first, rather than elsewhere. The next debate is on our relationship with Russia and China, and it will give Members and, of course, the Minister an opportunity to make their views known.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker, you will be aware of the importance across the country, not least in the north of England, of the long-awaited integrated rail plan. In Hull, we await news on the Government’s levelling-up promises on rail electrification and the eastern leg of HS2, but recent reports suggest that the plan may be published this week, on 11 November. In Transport questions on 4 November, the Minister of State, Department for Transport, the hon. Member for Pendle (Andrew Stephenson), said:

“I am delighted to say that the integrated rail plan is not just coming soon—it is now coming very soon.”—[Official Report, 4 November 2021; Vol. 702, c. 1035.]

This evening, the House goes into recess until next Monday. Mr Speaker has repeatedly reminded Ministers of the need to make important policy announcements to this House first. I therefore ask whether Mr Speaker has received notice of any intention by Ministers to make a statement in the House regarding the integrated rail plan and whether Mr Speaker has sought any assurances that such an important statement will not be published while the House is not sitting.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her point of order and notice of it. I certainly have not been given any indication that any statements will be made, other than the one we have just had, but she has made her point very well, and Mr Speaker has made his views clearly known. Whenever that report is published, I hope there will be ample time for Parliament first to question Ministers on its contents.

Local Government Finance (England)

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Wednesday 10th February 2021 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab) [V]]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. I am very pleased that both the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State opened the debate by paying tribute to the vital role that local government has played in our national response on covid. I would like to personally thank all the local government officers in Hull for their amazing work over the past 12 months in supporting our community. In my view, local government must be central to any serious plan for levelling up that the Government bring forward, but sadly, in Hull over the past decade it has felt more like levelling down.

The Chancellor, who was previously so adept at locating the forest of magic money trees, has made the deliberate and calculated political decision to underfund local government by around £2 billion and to invite local councillors to make up that funding shortfall by levying a large council tax increase of up to 5%. That would be around 4% above the current rate of inflation even before the fire and police precepts were added. I find it disgraceful that the Chancellor is playing political games at a time of a national public health and economic crisis, devolving blame and not power, and yet again providing only a sticking plaster solution to the issue of social care, despite the Prime Minister’s promises. As the Chair of the Select Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), said, there was a joint report from the Health Committee and the Local Government Committee a few years ago—I was a Member of the Health Committee at the time—that set out a way forward. It is unfortunate that we still have not had a response from the Government on those very sensible proposals.

It is not just that local authorities in the poorest areas have had the deepest funding cuts since 2010. The areas that those councils represent also have the poorest families who have been hardest hit by the decade of austerity and then by the covid crisis over the past year, as unemployment, which is always higher in those areas, has risen sharply. Many of those families are currently having to choose between heating and eating, and they simply cannot afford the large increase in council tax made in Downing Street. The council tax is a regressive tax that hits hardest the low-income working families who are just outside the scope of benefit entitlement, so a 5% council tax hike would be a major act of austerity targeted at those families at the worst of times.

In Hull, a 5%-plus council tax increase would raise little for local services such as adult social care and children’s services, which are already under huge pressure; it would instead cause disproportionate misery for families who simply cannot afford any extra tax burdens at this time. Council tax increases also raise less for services in disadvantaged and deprived areas than in wealthier areas. A 1% council tax hike in Hull who would bring in around £883,000. In the East Riding, our wealthier neighbour, that same 1% would bring in £1.7 million. So a 5% council tax increase in Hull would generate £4.4 million, but that would not close the budget gap of £13 million that Hull City Council will face in 2022-23. Given the 80-seat Tory majority, this council tax bombshell will no doubt be forced through the House tonight. It will then fall to local councillors to make the unenviable choice of whether to pass on this austerity measure made in Downing Street to low-income working families to maintain services, or to reject this austerity made in Downing Street and make further cuts to services. This puts councils between a rock and a hard place.

In conclusion, it is worth reflecting once again, in this centenary year, on the events in Poplar in 1921, when Labour borough councillors rejected the idea that the poor should keep the poor and refused to impose austerity on the poorest families. They went to prison for it. Their victory secured equalisation of the rates—a fairer system of local government finance that lasted decades, apart from a few episodes such as the poll tax, until the Tories and the Lib Dems in the 2010 coalition Government started year by year to dismantle the idea of fairer funding for poorer areas. We now face the renewed need to battle for a fairer deal for areas such as Hull and other disadvantaged areas in our country, and for funding that works for working families in those communities.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I am sorry, Dame Diana, that you were not earlier informed of the time limits. I understand that you have been, Nickie.

Domestic Abuse Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Report stage & 3rd reading & Report stage: House of Commons
Monday 6th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. We move to a five-minute limit.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

May I start by thanking the Minister for the helpful and courteous way that she has navigated this Bill through the House over the years? I was a member of the draft Bill Committee and then of the Bill Committee that met just before the general election in 2019. I have watched with interest as the Bill has developed and, I am in no doubt, improved. I also thank my own party’s Front-Bench team for their work and the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips), for her tireless campaigning.

The issue that I want the House to consider today is one that has not been discussed before in all the hours of debate around domestic abuse, and it has arisen out of the covid-19 pandemic and the steps that the Government have taken to ensure that women could access reproductive healthcare services during lockdown. The Government made it very clear that that was going to be a temporary measure and that it would be revoked as soon as possible. Although the Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee chided me in her contribution for tabling new clause 28, I am sure that she will understand that the opportunities to raise these matters are very few and far between and it seems to me that if you don’t go fishing, you don’t catch any fish.

New clause 28 is supported by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, the Royal College of Midwives, the Faculty of Sexual and Reproductive Healthcare, the British Society of Abortion Care Providers, the British Pregnancy Advisory Service, Marie Stopes, the End Violence Against Women Coalition and Women’s Aid. Hon. Members will be aware that current abortion law restricts the ability of healthcare professionals to provide care to women. The Abortion Act 1967 requires that abortion takes place on licensed premises.

That means that, outside covid regulations, women have to attend a clinic or hospital to administer the first pill as part of an early medical abortion, even if a woman is unable to safely attend a clinic because she is in an abusive relationship.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Thursday 16th January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I have been contacted by a number of constituents who have raised the issue of the places that the Government have announced will benefit from additional funding as part of their towns fund announcement. Oddly, the list seems to include places that are not towns but cities, such as Lincoln and Wolverhampton. I think it is in the Government’s interests to allay any fears there might be about pork-barrel politics that a statement is made to the House about the criteria used for allocating funds through the towns fund because cities such as my own city of Hull have not been allowed to apply for the funding, yet other cities seem to have got in there anyway.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Lady for her point of order, but she knows that it is not a matter for the Chair. I have been given no notification that a statement will be made, but I am absolutely certain that the Whips will feed back the point that she has made.

Business without Debate

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Has a Home Office Minister notified you that they intend to make a statement to the House this afternoon? It is being reported in the media that the Home Office has announced plans to change the rules on disclosure of criminal convictions, including removing the need to disclose adult cautions after six years and convictions after 11 years if the person has not been imprisoned. Given that this is an important matter, the House should be consulted on it, so could a Minister clarify the situation?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the hon. Lady for that point of order. I have not been notified that a Home Office Minister or, indeed, any other Minister intends to make a statement to the House today. Should that alter, the House will be informed in the usual way.

Budget Resolutions and Economic Situation

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Wednesday 20th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I was hoping that the Budget would produce a plan for jobs, growth and investment. I was hoping that it would help areas such as mine, and help to rebalance the economy between the south and the north. I was hoping that it would address the problems of my constituents in Hull North and the problems that are becoming far too apparent in other areas of the country. We are becoming “food bank” Britain. That sits badly with other policies the Government are pursuing, such as giving tax cuts to millionaires and fighting hard in Europe to protect bankers’ bonuses.

Jobs are the key issue in my constituency. The latest statistics available show that more than 40 jobseekers go after every vacancy. Today’s figures show that there is 12% unemployment in my constituency against a national average of just over 5%. Young people are particularly hit by unemployment problems. Despite the good work that the local council does with the private sector to try to get young people into work, it is proving difficult to do that. The Work programme has a success rate of 0.83% in my constituency. Jobs are the key to ensuring that my city has a future.

The Chancellor said that 1.25 million private sector jobs have been created, but in my area in the past few months, more than 1,000 private sector jobs have gone from big names such as Kimberly-Clark and Seven Seas. There were job losses in Hull following the underspend on the Warm Front scheme—Hull was one of the bases for the scheme. We need policies that will work throughout the country and not just in specific areas.

The Chancellor said that, for every public sector job that had gone, six private sector jobs were created, but those jobs are often temporary, part-time or zero-hour contracts. A part-time job in Poundland is not the type of job we want in our economy. We want high-skilled, good-quality jobs. I am told that more people will be employed in “McJobs” at McDonalds than in the British Army. That says we are not getting our priorities right.

The Government’s response is the idea that employers have a national insurance contribution reduction of £2,000. That is welcome—the idea is similar to ideas in the five-point plan, which the Labour party has been talking about for many years. However, the managing director of PAT Testing Expert Ltd in Hull has said that the measure is a reduction, not a cut, which is what he was hoping for. The business community is saying that the measure is not quite what they were hoping for.

Overall, the Budget has failed. There is nothing on the skills agenda, which is so important in ensuring that our people have the skills they need to get the jobs for the future. Last night, the caravan industry told the BBC in my region that it needs help in getting investment. The Minister will know jolly well that, come April, there will be 5% VAT on caravans, which was part of the deal that had to be cobbled together after the omnishambles of the previous Budget. The industry is getting no help.

There is nothing in the Budget about business rates. There is nothing on roads or the work that needs doing in my area on the A63—I note that, in the autumn statement, work was planned for the port in Thurrock, which is in the south. The money available for infrastructure is all post-2015. There will be £3 billion, but it will be too little, too late.

The Budget contains no support for the renewables industry, which is where the real potential for growth lies. In my city, we have been trying desperately to get Siemens to build and manufacture wind turbines, so that lack of support is very disappointing.

While there is much in the Heseltine report that it is important to commend, it is disappointing that the Government have not accepted some of the recommendations on the need to protect British innovation and enterprise. As I understand it, there is nothing about the commitment to strengthening local chambers of commerce, which are important organisations for local economies. I am concerned that the single pot might not become available until 2015. Again, that is too late: we need the help now.

On overseas students, our universities’ export of quality education has been vital, with potential for further growth. However, the Government need to get their act together. A lot of overseas students are put off coming to this country by the messages the Government send out on immigration. That is a great shame. The university of Hull has a large number of overseas students and wants to see more of them. It is disappointing that the Government seem to be facing both ways on this issue.

On housing, although I welcome some of the initiatives the Government have brought forward, there are a lot of questions to ask about how they will work and not be abused. More importantly for my constituents, there was absolutely nothing in the Budget about flood insurance. If flood insurance is not available after the summer when the statement of principles comes to an end, that could blight the housing market in large parts of the country. There has been no agreement. As I understand it, the Treasury is standing in the way of an agreement between the Association of British Insurers and the Government. It will not ensure that money is available in the first few years of any new scheme and underwrite it if there are bad floods, such as those in Hull in 2007. That is shameful. My constituents are finding it very difficult to get house insurance now. If they cannot get house insurance after the summer, the housing market in Hull and in other parts of the country that have suffered from flooding in recent years will be in dire straits. The Government need to address this situation urgently. It will become a powerful issue if it is not addressed properly.

The Government talk a lot about how they want the economy to start to improve, but it is clear that growth has been downgraded, there is more borrowing, unemployment is starting to go up—3,000 of the 7,000 rise in the number of job losses announced today were in Yorkshire and the Humber—and millionaires are getting a tax cut in just a few days’ time. The Government have got their priorities wrong.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. The last speech is by Emma Reynolds. Emma, I will not put the clock on you, but if you are still speaking at 7 pm, I will you interrupt you as gently as I can.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Thank you for that point of order. I have received no information that any Minister intends to make a statement on that issue or any other issue today. Should that alter, the House will be informed in the usual way. As far as tomorrow is concerned, we will have to wait until tomorrow.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. During oral questions in July 2010, I was told by the then Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the right hon. Member for Meriden (Mrs Spelman), that she was proud that she had found a way forward with the insurance industry on flood insurance. Today, we see that the Government have done no such thing. My constituents were relying on the word of the Secretary of State in the House of Commons and they now feel very let down. What can be done to correct the record?

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

That sounds to me more like a matter of debate than a point of order. The hon. Lady is a senior Member of the House and will know the tools that are available to her to pursue the matter.

Points of Order

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Monday 12th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Members on the Treasury Bench will have heard the right hon. Lady’s plea, and I am sure that Ministers will do what they can to ensure that answers are forthcoming speedily. Of course, there will be other opportunities between now and the recess for her to pursue those matters.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I seek your advice on the answer that the Home Secretary gave me this afternoon at Home Office questions? It related to statistics to which the Immigration Minister and the Prime Minister have referred, but about which the chair of the UK Statistics Authority, Sir Michael Scholar, has raised concerns—in terms of breaching the statutory code of practice, the ministerial code and the published guidance on the handling of official statistics, issued by the Cabinet Secretary.

The Home Secretary used those figures again this afternoon, and in the light of that can you, Mr Deputy Speaker, request that the statistics to which she referred are now placed in the Library and fully published, so that all parliamentarians can scrutinise them? Currently, the Commons is at a disadvantage, as only the Government have sight of them and keep referring to them.

[Mr Deputy Speaker]

That is not a matter for the Chair. Ministerial answers are the responsibility of Ministers, but, again, Members on the Treasury Bench will have heard the hon. Lady’s plea.

Protection of Freedoms Bill

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Tuesday 11th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Diana Johnson]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 111, in clause 66, page 49, leave out from line 32 to line 5 on page 53 and insert—

‘(1) In sub-paragraph (3) of paragraph 2 of Schedule 3 to the Safeguarding Vulnerable Groups Act (inclusion subject to consideration of representations), after paragraph (b) insert—

“(c) give the person the opportunity to present evidence and call witnesses at an oral hearing in front of a panel of at least two persons.”.

(2) After sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 3 of that Schedule (behaviour) insert—

“(2A) The right to representation must include the right to present evidence and call witnesses at an oral hearing in front of at least two persons.”.

(3) After sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 5 of that Schedule (risk of harm) insert—

“(2A) The right to representation must include the right to present evidence and call witnesses at an oral hearing in front of at least two persons.”.

(4) After sub-paragraph (3) of paragraph 8 of that Schedule (inclusion subject to consideration of representations) after (b) insert—

“(c) give the person the opportunity to present evidence and call witnesses at an oral hearing in front of a panel of at least two persons.”.

(5) After sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 9 of that Schedule (behaviour) insert—

“(2A) The right to representation must include the right to present evidence and call witnesses at an oral hearing in front of at least two persons.”.

(6) After sub-paragraph (2) of paragraph 11 of that Schedule (risk of harm) insert—

“(2A) The right to representation must include the right to present evidence and call witnesses at an oral hearing in front of at least two persons.”.’.

Amendment 117, in clause 78, page 64, line 33, at end insert—

‘(3) After section 113A(3) of the Police Act 1997 (criminal record certificates) insert—

(3A) The Secretary of State must make provision to ensure that the registered person is informed when the criminal records certificate is issued.

(3B) The Secretary of State must make provision to send a copy of the criminal record certificate directly to the registered person when the individual consents.”.

(4) After section 113B(4) of that Act (enhanced criminal record certificates) insert—

“(4A) The Secretary of State must make provision to ensure that the registered person is informed when the enhanced criminal records certificate is issued.

(4B) The Secretary of State must make provision to send a copy of the enhanced criminal record certificate directly to the registered person when the individual consents.”’.

[Diana Johnson]

Under new clause 18, the barred status of an individual would be revealed in a CRB check. The House will know that at present, an enhanced CRB check may reveal all convictions and cautions, regardless of whether they are relevant, and allegations made to the police that were not turned into convictions. One gets barred status information only if the person will be working in a regulated activity, and the Bill has produced a narrower definition of “regulated activity” than previously existed. For example, all employed positions in a school are involved in regulated activity and barred status information would be provided for those jobs.

A standard or enhanced CRB check does not reveal barred status. An enhanced CRB check would not reveal that a person had been investigated by experts at the Independent Safeguarding Authority. It would not show that allegations had been verified and references sought, and that the person had been able to make representations. It would not reveal that the Independent Safeguarding Authority had come to an informed decision that the person posed a significant danger to children or vulnerable adults.

What is more, many people on the barred list are not even known to the police. That came out in Committee. The reason could be that the parents do not want to put their child through the ordeal of making a formal complaint to the police, but the school notifies the Independent Safeguarding Authority of concerns about an individual teacher or member of staff. Another scenario is that a supply teacher moves from school to school and, although it is quite clear that there is a problem, the schools just decide not to have the supply teacher back and do not notify the police of their concerns. Eventually, the local education authority may take the view that the ISA should find out why there are so many schools where that supply teacher is not welcome. The ISA might then receive complaints and look at the employment history of the individual and see a pattern of allegations, and the teacher moving on quickly. Again, that might all happen without any formal complaint being made to the police.

With vulnerable adults it is often difficult to substantiate allegations—for example, of theft from dementia patients. A care home might decide not to notify the police, but just to dismiss the employee and notify the ISA. Even though the police do not always get involved in or know about complaints and allegations, such people are clearly a danger to vulnerable people and children, and that information should be made available to their future employers.

It would be a great help to employers, particularly charities and small voluntary sector organisations, if they were informed of concerns that the Independent Safeguarding Authority had looked into, on the basis of which an individual had been barred. The Committee received a number of submissions from sports clubs and organisations that wanted to know that any information about barring would be made available to them when working with, teaching or training young people.

I would like to give the Minister an example and ask her whether such a person will be covered by the proposals in the Bill. X is a former teacher who is barred from working with children following substantiated reports of inappropriate behaviour from three schools. None of the allegations was passed on to the police, as I have explained is common. X presents himself as a retired teacher and volunteers at a primary school. At the primary school, he hears children reading and works one-on-one with the same 10 children every week. Under the current law, the school must check his barred status and would find out about his history. The school would know that information quickly. I understand that schools can obtain barred status within 24 hours.

My understanding is that under the new law, it would be an offence for the school to check his barred status and it would not be given that information. Even if the school followed best practice and conducted an enhanced CRB check, that would reveal nothing, as no allegations had ever been made to the police. There would be no soft information and no criminal convictions on the CRB check. However, this person would clearly be a threat to children in the view of the Independent Safeguarding Authority, and would be on the barred list. As I understand it, under the proposals he would not be prevented from working with children. It would be helpful if the Minister explained why she feels it appropriate that information from the many trained experts at the Independent Safeguarding Authority—specialists in this area who are able to analyse information and allegations—should not be made available to schools and other organisations that wish to rely on that expertise.

I am sure that the Minister will also want to respond to my point about the Bichard inquiry, which as hon. Members know came out after the dreadful Soham murders. The major thrust of the report and recommendations on how to avoid another case like the Soham murders was that information should be properly shared between all interested parties. The Independent Safeguarding Authority is the body that has the most information. All employers, charities, voluntary groups and sports organisations should be able to benefit from its expertise and insight.

Moreover, when a CRB form is processed electronically, barred status comes up immediately. If an employer needs to recruit someone urgently and needs the information speedily, as often happens in the adult care sector because people become ill or move on quickly, they may be tempted to put people into sensitive positions even though they are waiting for a CRB check. I wonder whether the Minister could refer to that issue. This matter is so important that I would like to test the opinion of the House on new clause 18.

Amendment 111, which would amend clause 66, relates to people who commit serious offences. Such people are currently put on the barred list automatically. Since 1933, people who have been convicted of serious offences against children have been banned from working with children. In the Bill, the Government propose that a person convicted of a serious offence should not automatically be barred from working with children. For example, under the new proposals a man working as a lorry driver who had been convicted of raping a child would not automatically be put on the barred list. The test that the Bill sets out is that he would be put on the list only if he was, had been or might in future be engaged in regulated activity relating to children.

Amendment of the Law

Debate between Nigel Evans and Diana Johnson

Wednesday 23rd March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Diana Johnson]

Like all hon. Members, I think apprenticeships are an excellent idea. Employers in Hull, however, will tell anyone that the new criteria that have to be fulfilled to take on an apprentice mean that many of the young people cannot get into the workplace. They may be with a training provider, but actually finding an apprenticeship with a business is proving very difficult. I do not know where these 250,000 apprenticeships are going to come from. If the Government can do this, I say “Excellent, we are all supportive,” but to be honest, you are in la-la land—[Interruption.]—or, indeed, in the land of green ginger, which is another very good example.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

When the hon. Lady said “you are in la-la land”, she was, of course, referring to me!

[Diana Johnson]

I meant no disrespect to you, Mr Deputy Speaker. Of course, I did not mean that.

Let me bring my remarks to a conclusion.