BAE Systems

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I inform the House that the debate will conclude at 2.30 pm.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I am going to call the Front Benchers next, but I ask them to be mindful that a number of MPs who wish to contribute to this debate have constituency interests in the matter.

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[Alison Seabeck]

Forgive me, but I will not, because a lot of Back-Bench Members want to speak. The Minister gave way a lot, and we need to move on.

A key part of the very significant contribution that the defence industries, and indeed BAE, make to our economy is the need for a strong defence industrial strategy —one that meets our overall defence needs and protects our sovereign capability. We need a coherent plan of investment—for example, in unmanned aerial vehicle technologies—that will help to sustain the whole-aircraft skills on which this industry has traditionally been based. Labour Members have already commissioned our own review of defence procurement, and it will be interesting to see whether, in the long promised White Paper, the Government pick up on any of the themes we have suggested, which deserve further consideration. Crucial too, and touched on in our document, is the economic case for a strong defence sector able to export goods and grow its markets rather than, as we are seeing now, having to scale back its work, shrink its work force and leave the taxpayer covering the cost of unemployment.

The relationship that BAE Systems has with the UK Government, and therefore within the defence industrial base, is significant because of its substantial reach. It is a company of global significance with some 38,000 employees in the UK, one of the largest cohorts of apprentices, 10%-plus of all defence industrial jobs, and over a third of its sales market in this country. In fairness to the company, it does understand the need to protect the skills base. BAE also has some 9,000 UK suppliers, with tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of supply chain jobs therefore partly dependent on it.

We are working in a market environment in difficult financial times, and it is therefore important to understand from the Government what discussions they had with BAE prior to this announcement. The Minister touched on that. Was the prospect of offsetting potential job losses from the slowing of programmes at BAE against the mooted development by Siemens in Hull ever discussed? Siemens, of course, was in line to pick up the work that Bombardier failed to get. There is some uncertainty all around this. We should be a little clearer about which branches of Government are looking to ensure that there is sustained, ongoing skilled employment in the Humber area.

We have to have concerns when organisations such as ADS, the trade organisation advancing the UK aerospace, defence, security and space sectors, express the view that the current cuts to BAE are the tip of the iceberg. We need to be convinced that the Government are using all their tools—I realise that that is not solely the responsibility of the Minister who is present—to help those successful industries to be more productive. When the Government are the client, they must still ensure that the taxpayer gets value for money. The Government must decide whether they want to act to support sovereign capability with skilled jobs based in this country. If they do, they need to act now.

We have to look at the potential problems facing the Typhoon programme. Italy and Spain are having difficulty paying their way. I heard the Minister’s positive comments about the Typhoon programme, but we need reassurance that the Government are doing everything they can to keep it on track. We need to be sure that, along with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the Department is looking at the impact of the loss of intellectual property rights, such as those associated with the Harrier and the Hawk, which were mentioned by the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden. Those are transferable, and in theory that allows build programmes to happen outside the UK. Will Hawk production be shifted entirely to India? Is that an entirely desirable endgame for the British Government? I suggest that it is not.

I hope that the Minister will listen, as I shall, to right hon. and hon. Members in this important Back-Bench debate as they flag up what is wrong with the way BAE is responding to the current downturn, and highlight the ways in which the Government are not supporting British industry in this sector as Members feel they should. The Minister should not only take a direct interest in the current situation, as he has made clear that he does, but pay heed to the critical reports of the Public Accounts Committee and the National Audit Office, including any future investigations that they might undertake as a direct result of today’s debate, particularly into the yellow book. In the forthcoming White Paper, the Government should indicate clearly a positive way forward, because BAE, irrespective of the issues raised in the House today, is a significant player in the Government’s defence strategy and wider industrial strategy, particularly for fixed-wing aircraft and unmanned aerial vehicles, so it needs to be able to plan with some certainty within its own domestic market, as do all its competitors. In turn, it will be able to secure high-skilled jobs such as those at Brough into the future. We must avoid further job losses, any further loss of expertise and, of course, the poor use of taxpayers’ money.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

The time limit has been reduced to five minutes in order to get everybody in.

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[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow my near neighbour and fellow east Yorkshire MP, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner). I also pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Mr Davis) and the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) for securing this important debate.

I cannot add much to the arguments about Brough so I shall talk about the impact on the local economy. First, though, I shall respond to one or two of the points made by other Members, starting with my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre and Preston North (Mr Wallace). It is a little unfair to suggest that we think that everything should be bought here in the United Kingdom or that there is some sort of magic bullet. We recognise the requirement for partnership, to which my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden referred. We are asking, “Are we getting what we can out of these contracts, or is the country too subservient in this sector?”

I am delighted that the debate has not turned party political or into a Lancashire versus Yorkshire argument, which is important to me as a Percy: the Percys fought on the Lancastrian side despite being a Yorkshire family. [Interruption.] Actually, we changed sides halfway through because we like to be on the winning side.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. May we return to BAE?

[Andrew Percy]

The point is that this has not been a political debate.

I want to discuss the impact on east Yorkshire and my constituents in north Lincolnshire, a number of whom work at BAE Systems. It was brought home to me on the day of the announcement when my secretary, whose husband works at BAE, contacted me distraught about what was happening. Practically everyone who lives in east Yorkshire knows somebody who works at, or is connected to, the factory. As my colleague and near neighbour, the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East will attest—we were two boys at Hull comprehensives—when we went to school in the ’80s and ’90s if someone wanted an apprenticeship, they got one either at BAE Systems or at Saltend with BP. The vast majority of my compatriots and friends at school did not go to university but, like their parents, worked—and continue to work—at BAE Systems.

As Members have said on both sides, the company is rooted in east Yorkshire, and the impact of its leaving will be indescribable not just on the work force but because of the work it does in local schools and through pairing with universities and colleges. As the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) said, the Humber economy is in a pretty poor state, and has been for a long time. Over the past 10 years, we have lost private sector jobs along the Humber at a time when the rest of the country was growing private sector jobs. We are in a bad state, and the consequences of losing these 800 jobs will be indescribable.

The Minister used the word “disingenuous”. That is what we all feel about BAE Systems’ actions. As the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East said, when we met BAE Systems in July—the unions and everyone who has spoken have attested to this—we were told that although things were tough, the company was expecting Hawk contracts and that the most recent round of redundancies had secured the site and the business for the future. We expected those contracts to be landed and those jobs to be secured.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. We have three more speakers. I shall allow them their five minutes each, but I strongly discourage any interventions during their speeches.