Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Thursday 31st March 2011 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

I beg to move amendment 22,  page 87, line 26, leave out ‘authorisations’ and insert

‘premises licences and club premises certificates’.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments 23 to 30.

[James Brokenshire]

These are minor amendments to the late-night levy clauses in part 2 that clarify the effect of the provisions. To avoid possible misinterpretation, the Bill should use consistent terminology. Amendments 22 and 30 intend to achieve that end. Amendments 26 and 27 amend clause 133 merely by making it clear that if licensing authorities amend the categories of premises in their area that benefit from an exemption or reduction in their levy liability for a subsequent year there may already be none as well as one or more premises in those categories for the existing year.

Amendments 28 and 29 remove a drafting error in clause 133 and clarify the basis on which licensing authorities must ensure that any exemption or reduction categories that apply in their areas in a subsequent year accord with the categories prescribed in regulations. Amendments 23, 24 and 25 ensure that local authorities do not suffer a burden in introducing the late-night levy. They do not change the intention underlying the levy, nor do they change the burden on business.

The Bill as it stands allows licensing authorities to deduct the costs that they incur in the “collection, administration or enforcement” of the levy from the levy revenue. However, it has become clear that that phraseology, including the reference to administration, does not include the specific costs of introducing the levy. A licensing authority will need to carry out a number of administrative procedures before collecting the levy. First, it will hold a consultation on the way in which it wishes to operate the levy. That is an important process, and it ensures that the community’s opinions are heard. Following a decision to adopt the levy, the licensing authority will announce its intentions. Some businesses will decide that they do not open long enough in the levy period to make it worth while to pay it. To avoid the levy, those businesses will be able to make a free change to their licence. However, that means that licensing authorities must process the licence variations without recovering costs. Amendments 22, 23, 24 and 25 will ensure that licensing authorities can deduct the costs of those introductory processes from the levy revenue.

I do not want the levy to become a burden on licensing authorities. It has always been my intention that it should be self-funding while raising a significant amount of money for the police and other organs of local government. The amendments ensure that that is the case. Let me reiterate that the amendments will have no further impact on business. We have published indicative levy charges, which will remain the same. To make some simple clarifications and to ensure licensing authorities bear no burden as a result of the late-night levy, I urge the House to accept the amendments.

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[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 162, page 94, line 27, leave out subsection (2).

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 163, page 94, line 32, leave out clause 141.

Amendment 164, page 95, line 7, leave out clause 142.

Amendment 171, page 95, line 7, leave out clause 142 and insert—

‘142 Injunctions to prevent a prohibited activity in controlled area of Parliament Square

(1) The High Court may grant an injunction against a person under this section if—

(a) it is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the respondent has engaged in, or is about to engage in, a prohibited activity; and

(b) the injunction is necessary to stop the person doing a prohibited activity or from starting a prohibited activity.

(2) For the purposes of this part, a “prohibited activity”; is an activity—

(a) which may result in serious public disorder or serious damage to property; or

(b) where the purpose of the activity is the intimidation of others with a view to compelling them not to do an act they have a right to do, or to do an act they have a right not to do.

(3) A person who fails without reasonable excuse to comply with a prohibition in an injunction order under section 143(1) is in breach of the injunction.’.

Amendment 176, in clause 142, page 95, line 8, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Amendment 185, page 95, line 8, leave out ‘or authorised officer’.

Amendment 177, page 95, line 12, at end insert—

‘(1A) In subsection (1) a “senior police officer” means the most senior in the rank of police officers present at the scene.’.

Amendment 195, page 96, line 12, leave out ‘5’ and insert ‘3’.

Amendment 165, page 96, line 13, leave out clause 143.

Amendment 172, page 96, line 13, leave out clause 143 and insert—

‘143 Injunctions under section 142: content and duration

(1) A condition included in an injunction ordered by the High Court under section 142(1) may prohibit the person from—

(a) being in the controlled area of Parliament Square for the purpose of undertaking a prohibited activity; or

(b) entering the controlled area of Parliament Square for the purpose of undertaking a prohibited activity.

(2) An injunction prohibiting a person from being in or entering the controlled area of Parliament Square continues in force until—

(a) the end of such period on which the injunction is made as may be specified by the court making the injunction; or

(b) if no period is specified, the end of the period of seven days beginning with the day on which the injunction is made.

(3) A period specified under subsection (2)(a) may not be longer than seven days.’.

Amendment 178,  in clause 143, page 96, line 20, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Amendment 193, page 96, line 22, leave out ‘90 days’ and insert ‘seven days’.

Amendment 194, page 96, line 24, leave out ‘90 days’ and insert ‘seven days’.

Amendment 186, page 96, line 20, leave out ‘or authorised officer’.

Amendment 179, page 96, line 26, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Amendment 187, page 96, line 26, leave out ‘or authorised officer’.

Amendment 166, page 96, line 40, leave out clause 144.

Amendment 173, page 96, line 40, leave out clause 144 and insert—

‘144 Applications for injunctions under section 142

(1) An application for an injunction under section 142 may be made by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis to the High Court.

(2) Notice of any application under subsection (1) must be served on the respondent in accordance with the rules of the court.

(3) The court must give the respondent an opportunity to make representations in proceedings before it about the making of an injunction.’.

Amendment 180,  in clause 144, page 96, line 41, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Amendment 188, page 96, line 41, leave out ‘or authorised officer’.

Amendment 181, page 96, line 43, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Amendment 189, page 96, line 43, leave out ‘or officer’.

Amendment 182, page 97, line 1, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Government amendment 57.

Amendment 183, page 97, line 6, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Amendment 190, page 97, line 6, leave out ‘or authorised officer’.

Government amendment 58.

Amendment 184, page 97, line 7, leave out ‘constable’ and insert ‘senior police officer’.

Amendment 167, page 97, line 28, leave out clause 145.

Amendment 174, page 97, line 28, leave out clause 145 and insert—

‘145 Breach of injunction

(1) The court may impose a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale where—

(a) an injunction under section 142 is granted against a person, and

(b) on an application made by the Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis, the court is satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the person is in breach of the injunction without reasonable excuse.

(2) For the avoidance of doubt, subsection (1) grants the only powers available to the court where it finds that an injunction under section 142 has been breached.’.

Amendment 196, page 97, line 28, leave out clause 145 and insert—

‘145 Power of court on conviction

(1) The court may, following the conviction of a person under section 141, make an order requiring the person not to enter the controlled area of Parliament Square for such period as may be specified in the order which may not exceed seven days.

(2) Power of the court to make an order under this section is in addition to the court’s power to impose a fine under section 142(8).’.

Amendment 168, page 98, line 1, leave out clause 146.

Amendment 175, page 98, line 1, leave out clause 146 and insert—

‘146 Discharge of injunction

(1) The court may discharge an injunction if an application to discharge the injunction is made.

(2) An application to discharge the injunction may be made by

(a) Commissioner of Police of the Metropolis who applied for the injunction; or

(b) the respondent.

(3) Before applying for the discharge of an injunction, the applicant mentioned in subsection (2) must notify the other.’.

Amendment 191, in clause 147, page 98, line 34, leave out ‘authorised officer and’.

Amendment 169, page 98, line 34, leave out clause 147.

Amendment 170, page 99, line 4, leave out clause 148.

[John McDonnell]

I almost feel like apologising to the House for burdening it with so many amendments, but let me just explain the grouping of the amendments, which come in three blocks.

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[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

The practice of the Prime Minister reading out the names of those who have fallen in Iraq or Afghanistan started in June 2003 with Tony Blair. It never happened before. Does my hon. Friend think that we should have read out those names in the Kosovo conflict, the first Iraq war or the Falklands conflict?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. We are going wide of the amendment.

[Paul Flynn]

In the first world war there were pages in newspapers listing the fallen and those missing in action, so it would not have been practical then, but it is practical in this conflict. Sadly, we are still losing soldiers—about one soldier a week dies in Afghanistan—so it is absolutely right to continue reading out their names and making such announcements. The Government should not stop doing that. I do not know whether my right hon. Friend agrees that MPs should be forbidden from reading out the names of the fallen, but I do not think that was a reasonable decision. I have challenged it and been stopped and I am sure that you would stop me now, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I attempted to read out the names of the fallen.

We really must pay tribute to Brian Haw. On nights when we have finished here and gone out, even in the middle of winter and sometimes in the early hours of the morning, he has been there, night after night, with his simple, anti-war message. Whether we agree with him or not he deserves our admiration and we do not need any attempt to sweep him and his companions out of sight to have a cosmetic effect on the square for an event that will be forgotten in a few years’ time.

I agree entirely with those who have said that the right to protest is honourable. It is a matter of pride when visitors come to London from countries in which any sign of protest would be swept away from their well-manicured streets and tourist attractions. The majority of the world’s countries would not allow such protest to take place in such a situation, but we are better and more advanced than them, and we should be proud that we have the right to protest. It is not available in the House, as it might be, but it is in Parliament square.

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[Mr MacShane]

My point is that we have now instituted such draconian security systems as a result of the invasion of this House—I do not think the hon. Gentleman was here at the time—and the attack from the Gallery that things have become all but impossible, and the police famously do not have the flexibility to allow certain people to come through ahead of ordinary—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I know that the right hon. Gentleman is in full flow, but he will see that we have before us amendment 162 and a lot of other amendments. There is a lot of meat here, and he is on another meal. I ask him to restrict himself to the amendments.

[Mr MacShane]

Having enjoyed many happy meals with you in Strasbourg, Mr Deputy Speaker, I always thought we were sharing the same plate.

I will not enter into the question of reading out the names of those who have fallen in war, on which my hon. Friend the Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) animadverted at great length, and the curious proposition that if one person falls his name should be mentioned, but if 20 or 100 fall there are too many names to read out.

We return, then, to a very important point—the centrality of Parliament and all democratic institutions to which all people should have easy and free access. In several democracies, there is, for good reason, the notion of the parliamentary mile, which means that for approximately 1 mile—a given space—around a Parliament, there should be no protests or demonstrations, and lawmakers should be able to go into their Parliament without being shouted at, as we were here for a number of years by the Iraq war protester with the very loud loudspeaker. We should certainly be able to confront citizens who are protesting or on their way to attend their protests in Trafalgar square, Speakers’ Corner in Hyde park, or wherever. One only has to walk up Whitehall to see a demonstration outside the Prime Minister’s house every day, but a Parliament is not a pressure cooker; it is a place for deliberation.

I recall being outside the White House a few years ago when there was a protest about President Clinton’s policy on Haitian refugees, and Arthur Ashe, the tennis player, was arrested and taken away. Those protestors were very brave. They went there, they knew they were going to be arrested, and they were making a profound point. However, American law says that when the President is in the White House—or when Congress is sitting—people cannot organise demonstrations directly under his nose.

That is a very important principle that dates back to the 19th century—

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[Mr Field]

Does the right hon. Gentleman not accept the fear that many of us in this Chamber feel, that once we go down the path of saying that Parliament—

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Being an apprentice Deputy Speaker, I should have reminded the right hon. Gentleman the first time he failed to do so that he must respond to the intervention that he has taken.

[Mr MacShane]

I am so sorry. I was just trying to put the interventions together to save time—your time, Mr Deputy Speaker.

I shall try to explain my point to the hon. Member for Cambridge. It is a concept common in many countries, and Britain can exclude itself from it, that the legislators of the democracy should be able to come to the area around the legislature—not around the Executive, not outside Downing street, not in the great centres where people gather such as Trafalgar square or Hyde park, and not anywhere else, such as outside embassies or town halls, but outside Parliament—without being told directly how or on what to vote at that moment. Anybody can come to my surgery on a Saturday or write to me to tell me how to vote. We have colluded in saying that Parliament needs to be protected from the people, which is why we have the absurd security systems that are now in place. If we do not re-establish the principle of parliamentarianism being something that requires reflection, debate and deliberation, with all of us voting in the Aye or the No Lobby to pass a law, and if we say that Parliament is simply an adjunct to a process of protest, it will weaken Parliament.

I will take the next intervention, but I will then sit down because other colleagues may want to speak.