Academies Bill [Lords]

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Thursday 22nd July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Ward]

I must say this is a fantastic debate. I was not sure of the right time to introduce this point, but it is not always the case that, if a school has its own budget, it will do the best thing by the children. The best example is probably the provision of education social work. It might seem that the school is the client of the education social worker, but of course it is not—the child is the client. Very often, if a school is offered the money, it will buy in its own education social worker, who will be a door knocker for getting those kids into the school. Once a child is on the roll and the school is getting the funding, some schools will say, “Actually, we’re not too bothered if that person doesn’t turn up today.” Believe me, it is true! It happens—because, in many cases, schools are forced into doing it. But the child is the client, and if the best place for the child is in school, the education social worker will try to facilitate that to the best of their ability. However, if that education social worker is employed by the school, sometimes the school will let the child in, but sometimes it will not be too bothered. I have known young children who have been out of school for two years—

[The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. Interventions, by their very nature, should be short.

[Pat Glass]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. The experiences of those of us who have worked in the education system might be very different from the experiences of those who have used it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Pat Glass]

How do I follow that? On the issue of parents, I said earlier that I am someone who has been humbled and that I have made mistakes. That is why I am saying to the Minister that there is an important role for parents. It is always harrowing to listen to the stories of parents when they know that there is an issue and that their child has needs but those needs are not being addressed. There is always a dilemma. We hear a lot about how hard up we are, about how there is very little money and so on, but there is not enough money in the world for SEN. We must face that. It becomes about priorities.

I have never met a parent who did not want the best for their child. Sometimes they have not always been able to display that in the best way—sometimes they have been very aggressive—but they still want the best for their child. In all my years of experience, however, I have never once been approached by a parent who said, “I want to open my own school”—never once. That is not to say that it does not happen because, as I said earlier, there are good local authorities and poor local authorities. I sympathise with parents who live in those areas where there is a lack of provision, particularly for autism.

[The First Deputy Chairman]

The hon. Lady must intervene briefly.

[Pat Glass]

Oh, right—can I make one quick point? Where special schools have been set up, whether by parents or by other organisations, the difficulty is that we all want to put money and resources in at the hard end, but what inevitably tends to happen is that that drifts away. When we look at schools that have been established, with the best of intentions, for the children with the greatest need, the children tend, in some cases, to have less severe needs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Iain Wright (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 61, page 5, line 22, leave out from ‘proprietor’ to end of line 23 and insert ‘to appeal to a Local Commissioner’.

[The First Deputy Chairman]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: amendment 62, page 5, line 25, leave out ‘review’ and insert ‘appeal’.

Amendment 63, page 5, line 26, leave out ‘review’ and insert ‘appeal’.

Amendment 64, page 5, line 43, at end insert—

‘“Local Commissioner” has the meaning given by section 23 of the Local Government Act 1974.’.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Iain Wright]

I beg to move amendment 76, page 5, line 34, leave out from ‘time’ to end of line 36 and insert

‘after deducting from any amount made available by a local authority to the school’s governing body (under section 50 of SSFA 1998 or otherwise) that has not been spent by the governing body or the headteacher, all existing and contingent liabilities not transferring to the Academy under a property transfer scheme (including any liabilities of the local authority incurred on behalf of the school), there is a net amount available.’.

[The First Deputy Chairman]

With this it will be convenient to discuss amendment 66, in clause 8, in page 6, line 22, leave out ‘property, rights and liabilities’ and insert ‘property and rights’.