Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill

Nigel Evans Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 17th May 2023 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. I will now announce the result of the ballot earlier today for the Chair of the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport. A total of 384 votes were cast, one of which was invalid. There was a single round of counting. With 383 valid votes, the quota to be reached was therefore 192 votes. Dame Caroline Dinenage was elected Chair with 198 votes. She will take up her post immediately, and I congratulate her on her election. The results of the count under the alternative vote system will be made as soon as possible in the Vote Office and published on the internet.

I call the Chair of the Business and Trade Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Wild (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

I am pleased to have the opportunity to talk about the Bill, which will drive innovation, growth and productivity by reforming digital market regulation, the competition regime and consumer protection.

Let me begin with the digital market elements. Technology permeates every aspect of our lives. The businesses that develop and apply new technologies—be they social media platforms, online marketplaces or innovation-driven firms—create huge benefits for consumers and make a major economic contribution. As the Chancellor frequently reminds us, the UK is the only country outside the US and China to have a tech sector with companies valued at more than £1 trillion—companies that have developed their businesses and attracted customers.

We must always be mindful that regulation and intervention in markets come at a cost. My starting point is to trust the invisible hand of the market as much as possible to drive competition, but markets require rules, and where those rules exist, they need to be enforced. We must be careful in how we approach regulation, and not penalise firms for being successful.

As has been said, digital markets have features, including the importance of data and network effects, that tend towards a few large players. It is certainly not the case, however, that having a small number of players with large market power is in itself a bad thing—it can represent the reward for innovation and investment. However, the CMA concluded in its review of online advertising that Facebook and Google’s market position meant that consumers and businesses faced increased costs, there was less innovation, and consumers had unfavourable terms imposed on them owing to competition.

The Bill will give the CMA the tools to designate firms with that strategic market status and apply conduct requirements for fair dealing, open choices and trust, which all sounds reasonable—for example, ensuring that there is a clear appeal process if a user’s marketplace access is terminated, or giving consumers choices and the ability to easily switch between services. However, it could easily become a burdensome requirement, so we must ensure that the regime is proportionate and that the cumulative impact of such requirements is regularly reviewed. Perhaps the Bill could be further improved by including something on its face to require the CMA to do so.

As a member of the Regulatory Reform Group, ably chaired by my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami), I share his concern about the accountability of regulators and the systematic underperformance that we see. Given the significant power that regulators wield and the impact of their decisions on the lives of our constituents, they must be accountable for those decisions. My hon. Friend set out very clearly and powerfully the case for our first report’s recommendations to promote greater accountability, as well as introducing standardised metrics so that we can judge regulators’ performance. I hope those recommendations will be taken forward.

I will briefly focus on the consumer regulation part of the Bill. Where companies breach consumer protection rules, there should be swift and proportionate action, but currently that does not happen, as the CMA lacks the powers to rapidly act: it has to go to court when it considers there has been a breach of consumer law. Which? has pointed out that a lack of powers meant that it took nearly six years to get the online secondary ticketing market to change its practices, although as we have heard from the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), there are still problems in that sector. That is why the new powers in the Bill are to be welcomed: there will be a direct enforcement regime, so that the CMA can investigate suspected breaches and issue enforcement notices and fines. That brings us into line with other major jurisdictions.

Others have referred to subscription services. About £30 billion is spent annually on those services, and consumer groups have identified that as another area of potential abuse. We will all have had different experiences: in some cases, it has been simple to unsubscribe from a service, and in others, it has been far more difficult—perhaps deliberately so, to make customers stick. Sky has raised concerns about the level of prescriptiveness on the face of the Bill regarding this issue, and has pointed out that in some cases, the requirements are more onerous than those that apply in regulated sectors. I hope the Minister will carefully consider those concerns, while ensuring that it is simple for customers to unsubscribe from services they no longer wish to pay for.

The final element I will focus on is that of fake reviews, and the detriment they cause to consumers and businesses. According to research by Which?, fake reviews make consumers more than twice as likely to choose poor-quality products, and people can be put off from making choices, whether about restaurants or about somewhere to stay. That is a particular issue for my constituency of North West Norfolk, which has a vibrant tourism and hospitality sector. UKHospitality welcomed the Bill’s helping to deliver fairness for hospitality venues and customers in that area, so I would be grateful if the Minister confirmed when the consultation he has referred to, which will get into the detail of how we tackle fake reviews, will be published so that we can act rapidly to close down those unfair practices.

To conclude, I support the intention of the Bill: to give the CMA powers to act rapidly against breaches of consumer law, to strengthen competition, and to crack down on abuses.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call John McDonnell.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker; I will be relatively brief. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey), I am a member of the National Union of Journalists’ parliamentary group—in fact, I am its secretary. It is really pleasing that there have been so many references to the issues around journalism and publishing from the hon. Members for Warrington South (Andy Carter), for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins) and for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney), as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles.

The NUJ welcomes the Bill wholeheartedly; Members who may not have been interested in the journalistic or publishing side of this issue will want to understand why. My hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles has described the way in which there has been erosion of local media and local press, as well as national cutbacks. While journalists have been losing their jobs, what has infuriated them is that where they are producing work—quality, reliable, regular news—that news is then being effectively ripped off on to other platforms and used to attract customers to advertising, and they get no recompense whatever. Members can understand why there is a depth of anger that has built up, and why the NUJ welcomes the Bill. We have been working with the News Media Association as well, which also welcomes it, because we see it as restoring some elements of the balance of power between the big tech giants and the journalists and publishers themselves.

To a certain extent, I agree with the hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden (Bim Afolami) about the importance of the accountability of regulators and ensuring that they can play their role effectively. Part of the problem on regulation at the moment is the forest of regulators that we have and their accountability. About five years ago, my hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles and I commissioned a report from Lord Prem Sikka. I will send the hon. Member for Hitchin and Harpenden a copy, because it identified something like 50 different regulators in the finance sector stumbling over each other, not being held particularly to account by this place. I see the solution as being more about shifting the balance of power not to regulators, although they should be held accountable, but to the journalists and publishers themselves. That is why part 3 of the Bill is key for us. It demonstrates a firmness of purpose by the Government in ensuring proper regulation and the restoration of the balance of power, but the devil will be in the detail of the implementation of these regulations and clauses in particular.

I am anxious, like others, about clause 29. It just looks like a gaping loophole that could emerge in the coming period. The NUJ stands ready to engage in any discussions and consultations on the implementation of all the clauses in part 3, particularly in regard to guidelines, the final offer mechanism, the issues around timescales of the implementation and, if necessary, the sanctions that could be brought forward for any individual organisation that is dragging its feet and delaying an agreement on the final offer so that people are properly rewarded.

The hon. Member for Richmond Park raised the issue of intellectual property. That is an issue not only for journalists and others, but for performers. It has been raised with Equity, and Equity stands willing to engage in the discussions with the Government on these matters.

Overall, the significance of this legislation, for us and for the NUJ in particular, is that it could be another brick in the wall of restoring some of the infrastructure and architecture that we had for quality journalism in this country. In that sense, that is why we welcome it. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Salford and Eccles that it is one part and much more needs to be done, including investment in the BBC and elsewhere, such as local radio services. Instead, we have this dispute.

We also need to ensure proper investment in local journalism. There have been some developments under this Government to support local journalism. Money has been hived into particular support for community journalism, but there is a lot more to do, and that is why the union wishes to engage in a full consultation with the Government about the long-time future of quality journalism in this country. With those few remarks, I welcome the legislation. We will work on the detail. As I say, we and the unions stand ready to involve ourselves in the consultation on the guidelines for implementation.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I call the shadow Minister.

Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 20th November 2023 Commons Chamber

[Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg]

I am talking about the banking system generally, and I am saying that it is important that people should have banking facilities regardless of their political views. It is important that Russian oligarchs may be sanctioned—that is a legitimate thing for Governments to do—but that requires the rule of law.

I want to touch briefly on some of the other amendments to which I have attached my name. I once again agree with my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon (Sir Robert Buckland) on new clauses 24 and—particularly—25. Putting the consumer first must be the essence of what we are trying to do. To my absolute horror, I have discovered that I agree with him on turning some of these measures into secondary legislation.

Skeleton Bills are a dreadful thing. We get awful legislation coming into the House on which there is no detail at all because it will all be decided by Ministers later. Such Bills should be deprecated. The House of Lords is good at pushing back on them; this House less so. Skeleton Bills are bad idea—except, there is a place for secondary legislation, and that is it. For some utterly random reason, a Government who have brought forward extraordinary skeleton Bills, some of which I could mention and have mentioned in the Chamber on occasions, have brought forward every last detail on something that, in its essence, will need revision and updating and to meet different standards as time goes by. It is a modest eccentricity to have put that in the Bill. I suggest that, in the other place, the Government look at whether that detail could be easily turned into secondary instruments, with such instruments ready to come into force at the same time as the Bill, so there would be no delay. That structurally would make for a better Bill. I am embarrassed to be speaking in favour of secondary legislation, because normally I want to see things in the Bill. If we could have a promise of fewer skeleton Bills in future, I would be delighted.

Against that, I could not disagree more with new clauses 29 and 30. Those make a real mistake—dare I say it, they are typical socialist amendments—because they do not trust people. It seems to me that people are sensible: they know what they are doing, they volunteer to do it, and they are free to undo it. Yes, of course, it is important that they should be free to undo it, but there is a cost to over-regulation. If we make companies write all the time to say, “Are you sure you want to do this?” that puts up the price. The profit margin for the business will not change, but the price that they charge consumers will. If they are constantly saying, “Do you want to leave us?” that will put the price up, because there will be an administrative and bureaucratic cost to that, and a loss of business that will put up the overall cost for everybody. It is legislating for inefficiency based on the idea that consumers are stupid. Well, in North East Somerset, consumers are very clever, highly intelligent, and know what they have agreed to and what they have not agreed to.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Weston-super-Mare. His new clause 31 is genius because it gets to the heart of an incredibly complicated and difficult matter that no other piece of legislation that we have tried has really worked with. Even the one in, one out that we had from 2010 to 2015 did not really work. I seem to remember reading that the Crown’s ownership of sturgeon was cancelled during this period because it counted as a “one out”, allowing some regulation to come in, no doubt costing millions, as we got rid of something trivial. One in, one out was not really there, but this new clause does it on a proper cost audit and looks ultimately to cover everything. That is absolutely the right way to go. My hon. Friend made the superb point that whenever any type of Government expenditure is involved, it is looked at, reviewed and referred to a Committee, yet when regulations worth billions are involved, they pass through without so much as by your leave. This is a really important new clause and I encourage the Government to do whatever they can to implement it.

A final thought before I conclude is on petrol stations. This is very good news. Why is it that the Tesco’s in Paulton is more expensive than the local service station in Ubley? I use the local service station in Ubley because it is better value for money, but Tesco’s in Paulton is more expensive than the Tesco’s on the outskirts of Bristol. That is very unfair on my constituents and I want it to bring its price down.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Every little helps.

[Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland West) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. We all have that image in our head now, of which particular supermarket you are talking about.

As other hon. Members have said, this Bill is much needed and will help in so many ways. Hon. Members have sought to address a number of vexed issues in this legislation. This includes an attempt, through our Opposition amendment 225, to address drip pricing, which I know as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on ticket abuse is especially prevalent in the primary and secondary ticketing markets. In these markets, customers often have to wait until the payment screen to see a complete price breakdown. In the secondary market, customers are often drawn in by Google-paid ads to professional looking sites such as Viagogo, which are selling tickets for many times their face value and engaging in illicit business practices. Initial prices, while eye-watering, are present, but there is no breakdown of the exact amounts for service charges or VAT.

The consumer is left in the dark about what they are actually paying for until it is time to pay, usually after having navigated many more time-wasting pages on the website and almost losing the will to live and the power of rational thought. Even then, the prices are often still estimates when the customer eventually hits “Buy now”, after feeling that they will lose the tickets if they do not make the decision quickly. Lots of customers still get a nasty surprise when the payment confirmation email comes in and they see the actual amount that has been taken from their bank account or credit card.

Moving on more broadly to the Competition and Markets Authority, I am aware that the CMA made its recommendations on tackling abuses in the ticketing market to the Government in August 2021, which the Department for Culture, Media and Sport then sat on for over 18 months before making an outright rejection of them. Principally, these recommendations called for stronger laws to tackle illegal ticket resale, and this Bill could and should have been—and could still be—the perfect place to introduce those powers. I am therefore very disappointed that the Government are still resisting these modest calls from the body set up to regulate our markets.

I support efforts in the Bill to ensure healthy competition online, but why not extend it to tackle online ticket touts? Sites such as Viagogo have been allowed to grow and gain a monopoly over ticket resales while being accused of benefiting from the illegal bulk buying of tickets and the wholesale speculative selling of tickets that they simply do not have. This includes Viagogo sellers attempting to sell thousands of festival tickets that they had not purchased and did not have the title to, as well as something known as the golden circle, an online rent-a-bot group illegally buying masses of tickets for the upcoming tours of Beyoncé and Taylor Swift, even when artists such as Swift actively speak out against touting and take measures to protect their tickets from ending up in the hands of touts instead of fans.

Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Bill

Nigel Evans Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Tuesday 30th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Hollinrake]

I thank the hon. Lady for her intervention. She makes a very good point. I am happy to look at the concerns that she raises. We will look at the concerns raised by all stakeholders, Members of this House and people further afield to ensure that, when we carry out this review, we get to the right place.

The hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) seems to think EU legislation is stronger than ours. Let me point out that appeal standards consider the merits across the piece in the European Union; they do not in the UK, as they are confined to a very small element of it.

Finally, I am pleased that the hon. Member for West Ham (Ms Brown) supports the Bill and very pleased that she supports freedom of speech. Digital inclusion is very important. The Under-Secretary of State for Science, Innovation and Technology, my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden (Saqib Bhatti) is working very hard on social inclusion and social tariffs of broadband through the cross-ministerial group. We are very keen to ensure that reminder notices for subscriptions are very clear for all our consumers.

To conclude, I urge all Members on both sides of the House to carefully consider the amendment that I have proposed in lieu of those made in the other place. I hope that all Members will feel able to support our position.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Taylor Swift seems to be everywhere, even in the House of Commons, doesn’t she?

Question put, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 9.