Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill (Second sitting)

Debate between Nic Dakin and Jack Brereton

Committee Debate: 2nd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 12th February 2019 Public Bill Committees

[Jack Brereton]

Q In terms of productivity, do you think that immigration has any bearing on the levels of productivity in this country?

Matthew Fell: In the UK, there are quite clearly issues around needing to raise productivity. I do not think there is any evidence—I think the Migration Advisory Committee confirmed this too—that that is explained in any way by current approaches to immigration and levels of immigration in the country.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

Q We heard the argument this morning from the Migration Advisory Committee, which was supported to some extent by Migration Watch UK, that the threshold approach would encourage employers to push up wages and that would solve the problem. What is your response to that argument, which was consistently played back to us this morning?

Matthew Fell: I am not sure I agree with that. I will paint you a picture of the current situation in a number of sectors. If you take the construction industry, with two thirds of migrant workers, the median salary is currently under £30,000. If you look at the logistics sector, with about 10% or 20% of HGV drivers, or at the warehousing sector, with about a quarter of all fork-lift truck drivers, the wages for EU workers are quite significantly lower than that. I do not think that just changing a threshold level as a way of driving up wages is a helpful thing to happen in the economy.

Leaving the EU: Future Trade Remedies

Debate between Nic Dakin and Jack Brereton

Tuesday 17th April 2018 Westminster Hall

[Jack Brereton]

I do not think it needs to be. We should pursue opportunities globally. As I said, there are real opportunities out there in the Commonwealth—and, yes, with the United States, too—to improve our trade links and the opportunities of trade for British businesses, such as those in my Stoke-on-Trent constituency.

We need more businesses to be confident exporters. For that, they need the right skills, the right support from DIT, the right trading opportunities and trade agreements negotiated by Britain in the British national interest. We need of course to ensure that, as a nation, we make full use of digital technology and use the internet as a worldwide exports showroom and sales platform. But we also need to guard against material retardation of the establishment of new industries in the UK, either from barriers to entry due to costs or regulation here at home, or from imports that are unfairly and illegally dumped or subsidised by those who wish to nip competition in the bud.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate, and I apologise that I have to leave shortly to be on the Front Bench in the main Chamber. Does he agree that it would help to ensure free and fair trade if the calculation of dumping were stated transparently in the Trade Bill, which is due to come back on Report? That would give a lot more confidence to industries that need confidence, such as ceramics and steel.

[Jack Brereton]

As the hon. Gentleman says, there are a number of issues, and I will come on to more of them.

Looking forward to our global future, although there is necessarily some uncertainty about the final Brexit deal because negotiations are still under way, I welcome the Government’s acknowledgement that free and fair trade must operate within a rules-based system and that options must be available for countering those who break those rules. That is to say that fairness means everyone playing by the rules—or, as Nigel Lawson once said, “Rules rule: OK?” However, those rules need to be clear, fair and consistent. If they are not, we risk pent-up grudges feeding economic nationalism, full-scale protectionism and eventual trade decline. I therefore hope that the Minister will give us additional assurances that will soothe industries that look for as much clarity and transparency as possible from the Government when making their investment decisions.

The British Ceramic Confederation, which is a founding member of the Manufacturing Trade Remedies Alliance, is keen to maximise confidence in the sector that the UK’s framework for post-Brexit trade will be effective and open to the full range of remedies allowed under WTO agreements. Those agreements allow for three types of trade remedy: anti-dumping measures, countervailing duties and safeguards. I will focus on anti-dumping measures, because there are genuine concerns among BCC members and others that measures that the UK has previously actively supported may fall short of the proposed new economic interest test. Part of the concern is that it is not clear how that test would apply in practice, because, of course, it seems to be billed as something different from a public interest test; an innovation that goes beyond the public interest test in its calculations. Clarity from the Minister on that would be welcome.

[Nic Dakin]

The hon. Gentleman is being generous. On the point he is making, if we look at the systems of New Zealand, Canada and the US, we do not see additional tests. It would therefore seem perverse for the UK to introduce additional tests, which are not necessary in the best cases we see around the world.

[Jack Brereton]

The hon. Gentleman is right. Some of what has been proposed has not been experienced around the world; we will be testing something out that has not been tried. I will move on now, and I will not take many more interventions as time is short, but it would be particularly helpful to know whether the intention is that trade remedies would be applied before any test or only after the test. As the Manufacturing Trade Remedies Alliance has argued, duties could always be refunded retroactively if any test found that trade remedy measures were not in the public interest.

Current trade rules have served the ceramics sector well against outrageous dumping by countries that have far less regard for the spirit of free trade and the necessary rules underpinning free market economies. For example, just 10 years ago, we saw huge volumes of ceramic tiles, giftware and tableware all made in China being dumped at a price that could not have covered the real cost of production. The investigations into those price anomalies found that they were such clear cut cases of dumping that the EU still imposes remedial duties today.

There are good reasons for maintaining those duties after Brexit. Not least is the fact that since the measures against tile dumping were introduced in 2011, employee numbers in the UK have increased by about 40%. Not every new job will have been created as a result of the anti-dumping duties—the economy recovered substantially and employment grew significantly across many sectors in that time—but it is clear from the evidence that anti-dumping measures underpin the ceramics sector’s ability to take advantage of the Government’s wider pro-enterprise policy agenda, giving breathing space for the industry to invest in becoming more resilient.

Indeed, as recently as 2016, an expiry review of anti-dumping measures in the ceramic tiles market found overcapacity in the Chinese industry equal to six times total EU annual consumption. The anti-dumping duties on Chinese tiles were therefore extended for a further five years. I hope that the Minister will confirm that those measures will apply at least for the rest of those five years once we have left the European Union. Similarly, in the giftware and tableware sector, UK employee numbers have increased by 20% since anti-dumping measures were introduced. Our ceramics manufacturers are currently preparing a complaint for an expiry review. If the complaint is successful, the investigation will take place while we are still in the process of leaving the EU, so for clarity the industry would surely welcome any indication the Minister can give that the continuation of any EU anti-dumping measures that might result from any expiry review will also apply in the UK market.

In addition, the ceramics industry is keen for Ministers to reflect on how difficult it can be to counter dumping if the definition of dumping is too narrow. Unscrupulous actors who seek to dump their goods will be unscrupulous in exploiting any loopholes they see. For example, it may not be appropriate to rely on the price in the home market from which imports come when those imports originate from heavily distorted economies—that is to say from countries where market situations are distorted by the interventions of the state, which is usually an undemocratic state working outside the norms of transparency and governance that we take for granted.

On dumping calculations, I am therefore eager to learn what view the Government take on ensuring that the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Bill makes it clear that there are circumstances in which the difficulty in determining normal value in the presence of state distortions means that provisions should be made for when it is not appropriate to use the domestic price. By clarifying how the Trade Remedies Authority would, in anti-dumping investigations, calculate the level of dumping for cases in which the domestic price of the alleged dumped imports cannot be used, there will be legal certainty and greater confidence in the ceramics industry.

I also wish to raise the Government’s proposed use of a minimum market share in relation to the acceptance of dumping—or indeed subsidy—complaints. I would be grateful for clarity on their intentions. Will a de minimis level be set and, if so, at what level? What rules for flexibility might there be in that level? For example, will there be flexibility if an industry has evidence that it is being materially retarded from achieving the minimum market share by dumping or subsidies, if previous injury from dumping has reduced an industry to the de minimis level, or if an industry plays a peculiarly important role in a particular area of the UK, though not across the UK economy as a whole?

As we leave the EU, almost everyone now agrees that the Brexit process should not be some sort of sharp shock; it should be a growing opportunity, with a smooth transition period in which to adjust to the new reality of global Britain. Will that transition include the retention of existing trade remedies for the ceramics sector, followed to their full course and renewed if necessary? Such an assurance from the Minister would be extremely welcome.

While the Department for International Trade will rightly be proffering carrots in seeking free trade deals for global Britain, in terms of opening access to the UK market, it should also let it be known that we will keep some big sticks in our trade policy array should tit-for-tat measures prove necessary. Brexit is a great opportunity for us to be a leading independent force in the WTO, and the champion of free and fair trade across the world. It will take time to convince all other members of our case, and in that time we will have to be ready to combat egregious distortions. However, the direction of travel should be clear: freer markets, freer trade, and an empowered and liberated entrepreneurial British spirit, with more of our world-class manufactured goods reaching global markets, all of it underpinned by a sense of enforceable fair play. That is the Brexit that my constituents voted for, and that is the direction in which I hope the Minister will be pleased to travel.