Horsemeat

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 14th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

I have already explained that phenylbutazone is a well-known issue and that it is one of the things that is looked for at the point of slaughter, particularly through the horse passport system. I have also said that there may be deficiencies in the horse passport system that we need to address—[Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) is shouting at me from a sedentary position. I do not think that is helpful to a serious discussion of the subject. [Interruption.]

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I call Neil Carmichael. The hon. Gentleman should not look so surprised; he was standing up, and we wish to hear him.

[Neil Carmichael]

With all the cheering, Mr Speaker, I could not quite hear you.

Does the Minister agree that this is really all about the exposure of a very significant deception whereby the rule of law has been broken? Does he also agree that it is important that he has discussions with his European colleagues about bringing in mechanisms to stop it happening again, especially through making sure that the supply chain is properly transparent?

[Mr Heath]

The hon. Gentleman summates the whole position very well. The most important thing is to have effective investigation, to find the evidence, and on the basis of that evidence, to take action, and that is what we are doing.

Horsemeat (Food Fraud)

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. As I have said in my replies to Opposition Members, it is for the retailers to get their message across and take the necessary steps to ensure the validity and integrity of their product. It is for the retailers to communicate with their consumers to ensure that they come back.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I applaud the Secretary of State’s robust approach to eating British food; that is something that everyone in the House will agree with. I am also impressed that he has referred to random testing. Does he think that random testing should be applied to all steps of the food chain? That is an important issue that we need to discuss.

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. That is exactly what I am thinking of. I repeat that I am concerned that the system as currently conceived is all based on trust. A product is certified at the beginning of the process with a certificate or a piece of paper to state that such and such a pallet contains such and such a product, and it then goes through the system based completely on trust. I would like to have random testing at every stage, so that everyone could be kept on their toes. That could deliver considerable benefits.

Flooding

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising the situation in Kempsey. It was sickening that, according to my knowledge, the pump failed at 4 am. The scheme was designed to protect 70 properties, but 20 of those were damaged. A detailed investigation into what happened is taking place. I congratulate the Environment Agency on getting the pump going again. I believe that it had tripped out. There will be detailed results from the investigation and we will take the matter further when we see them.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I congratulate and thank the agencies in Gloucestershire for dealing so well with the various transport challenges and the localised flooding. Will the Department consider further attenuation schemes, which have some attraction in my constituency?

[Mr Paterson]

My hon. Friend raises a good point. During my train journey back from Taunton today, I saw graphically the extraordinary volume of water that has landed in such a short time. The areas that have been set aside as soaks have become completely saturated. He is right that having such small-scale schemes down the road can be very helpful and we will certainly look at that.

Ash Dieback Disease

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Monday 12th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[George Freeman]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the former Secretary of State. I am sure that the Minister will pick up on her extremely well-made point.

In the context of biosecurity in the UK, this is a wake-up call for us all. For far too long, we have not taken our biosecurity seriously enough. Over the past 15 years, we have seen a significant—and generally all to the good—globalisation of trade in commodities and products. We have also seen substantial climate change.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that we must have a clear understanding of the threats to our biosecurity, and that we should develop international contacts to enable us to identify those threats?

[George Freeman]

My hon. Friend makes a good point.

This outbreak presents us with an opportunity to establish our leadership in this important area of science. Over the past 15 years, we have seen a huge globalisation of trade in agriculture, plants and other commodities, as well as substantial climate change. That changes the context in which we should view the import and export of those goods. The UK’s biosecurity is of strategic national importance, as my hon. Friend the Member for Richmond Park eloquently pointed out. Colleagues who have visited Australia and the USA recently will know how seriously those and other countries take these matters. A person can hardly leave an aircraft without being sprayed, disinfected and checked, and without having their luggage checked for seeds. The outbreak represents a wake-up call for us in that context as well.

I welcome the Secretary of State’s strong leadership on this matter, and his highlighting of the potential for Britain to grasp the nettle and set out a new framework for biosecurity. If we can draw on our strengths in plant science, we will be able to turn this crisis to at least some advantage for the UK, and to establish ourselves once again as an island of biosecurity in a Europe that is awash with a number of plant and animal diseases, to the benefit of our landscape and of our agriculture and forestry industries.

Badger Cull

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 25th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride), who spoke with great authority about the impact of this dreadful disease on cattle, badgers and our farming community, and about the economic cost to the Government and the taxpayer.

I welcome the Government’s decision not to go ahead with the pilot cull at this time. The pause is welcome and allows this time to be used not only for debate in the House but for a proper examination of how to make sensible progress on dealing with this terrible disease in future.

Bovine TB is a truly dreadful disease, endemic in cattle in the UK. As we know, there are hot spots in the south-west and the west midlands. About 26,000 cattle were slaughtered in 2011 as part of the control of the disease, costing the taxpayer about £87 million in compensation for farmers. It is a dreadful disease in every respect. As I have listened to the debate, I have heard huge consensus about that. The question is what to do about it. We all fully understand the frustration in communities where bovine TB is endemic, and the desire to do something. As several of my hon. Friends have pointed out, however, it is not right to do something that will be unhelpful and make matters worse.

Bovine TB has consistently been a problem for decades in some parts of the UK. When the disease was found in badgers, it was easy to jump to the conclusion that a solution had been found—kill the badgers, eradicate the disease. Simple. Unfortunately, it has not worked like that. Right from the beginning, there were problems with that theory. There were cases of cattle herds testing positive for TB while local badgers were disease-free, and other cases of cattle being free of TB when local badgers were carrying it. There were also cases in which both badgers and cattle were carrying it. Nobody disputes that badgers can carry the disease, but it is not fully understood whether they infect cattle and how the pathway of the disease’s spread works.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

Professor Donnelly has already been mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride), and it is worth noting that she also observed that up to 50% of cases of TB in cattle could be attributed to infectious badgers.

[Nic Dakin]

As we have heard, the weight of scientific evidence goes in a certain direction, but some scientific voices fall outside that. The assumption about proximity and the fact that badger populations in some parts of the country are infected, is based on the balance of fact, rather than on scientific evidence. The history of badger culling to control TB in the UK has, in reality, been one of abject failure. Culling has gone on since 1971 although gassing was abandoned in 1980 as it was considered inhumane. The culling policy was not considered effective and was replaced by the so-called interim strategy in 1986. That followed the Zuckerman and Dunnet reviews which, while supporting badger culling at the time, acknowledged that there were insufficient data on the whole approach to badgers.

The interim strategy, which was based on identifying diseased badgers where there had been a cattle outbreak and then killing the whole sett, was seen largely as a placebo for farmers, rather than to tackle the real issue. It was a complete failure and disease outbreaks continued to rise and spread to other areas of the country throughout the period. I fear that the current Government strategy appears to be repeating that error, albeit confined to smaller areas.

As we have heard, in 1997 the incoming Labour Government stopped randomised culling and oversaw the establishment of a detailed scientific trial introduced by Professor John Krebs and overseen by the independent scientific group, chaired by Professor John Bourne. The trial demonstrated the complexities of the link between badgers and disease in cattle, and, importantly, showed that culling could actually make the disease worse by increasing spread and incidence of TB on the perimeter of trial areas. We have heard from hon. Members on both sides of the debate a recognition that those scientific facts are true.

My hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) spelled out clearly that the Labour Government would have gone ahead with culls had the scientific evidence supported it. Since it did not, however, the process did not go ahead. These matters involve closely balanced determinations.

In the summary of his report, Professor John Bourne states that

“although badgers contribute significantly to the cattle disease in some parts of the country, no practicable method of badger culling can reduce the incidence of cattle TB to any meaningful extent, and several culling approaches may make matters worse… rigidly applied control measures targeted at cattle can reverse the rising incidence of disease, and halt its geographical spread.”

Two weeks ago, that was echoed in a letter published in The Observer from 30 leading scientists, including Lord Krebs and Professor John Bourne:

“As scientists with expertise in managing wildlife and wildlife diseases, we believe the complexities of TB transmission mean that licensed culling risks increasing cattle TB rather than reducing it.”

As we have heard, that is the last thing we all want. They continued:

“We are concerned that badger culling risks becoming a costly distraction from nationwide TB control.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I have been a livestock farmer for two decades, so I am familiar with the difficulties that cattle farmers in particular face: the eradication of brucellosis, the threat of BSE, the arrival of foot and mouth and now, of course, TB. I am familiar with the challenges both financial and emotional.

The best farmers look after their livestock and have a healthy respect for wildlife. It is important that the House understands that point in this excellent debate. I represent a Gloucestershire constituency, so I know that farmers are suffering from the effects of TB and am fully aware of the devastation that it has caused to many businesses. It has been disastrous for many families. That is something that we have to bear in mind.

It is with huge reluctance that I support the pilot culling scheme. I emphasise that it is a pilot aimed at finding out whether the scheme works. It will be a properly controlled and managed scheme, as ironically the postponement largely demonstrates. The consideration behind the pilot scheme has been intense. I accept that information on the numbers of badgers has not always been completely accurate. It must be a properly managed scheme, however, and enable us to make judgments on the matter in the future.

It is important to emphasise the value of controlling movement and how animals are looked after. I welcome the fact that the Government have further strengthened movement controls. All farmers will welcome that step, because it is part of a package that must be introduced to deal with this threat. My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) was right when she reminded us that there is little point vaccinating something that already has the disease. It just does not help. Instead, we must find a vaccination that works but that is used as part of the process to deal with the problem.

I have mentioned movement, which is one part, and I have mentioned vaccination, which is another. I salute the Government’s decision to increase expenditure on developing the vaccination. I hope that it yields results. However, we cannot simply wait and wait, so the two strands of the strategy to deal with TB must also include culling. Some 26,000 cattle have been culled this last year alone. That is a significant figure, and it represents the scale of the problem. It is reasonable for Members to recognise that that amounts to huge difficulties for farmers, as well as huge difficulties for the cows. We talk a lot about badgers, but let us give the cows a boost, because they are animals and deserve fair treatment, too. I love badgers, but I also love cows. That must be how we look at this issue.

There are three things to do: control movements, look at vaccination and run a pilot scheme for culling. That amounts to a reasonable way to proceed, and I certainly hope that people give the cull that opportunity. I have one last question, however. It would be quite interesting to analyse the movements of TB after the slaughtering during the foot and mouth crisis. If there is evidence that there was latent TB, we must explore that issue; it ought to be analysed and discussed. I conclude with this quotation by Professor David King:

“In our view a programme for the removal of badgers could make a significant contribution to the control of cattle TB in those areas of England where there is a high and persistent incidence of TB in cattle, provided removal takes places alongside an effective programme of cattle controls.”

Dairy Industry

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 13th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Neil Parish]

Yes. My hon. Friend raises an interesting issue. It is not only a question of RDAs and which side of the A5 they are on; it is also a question of which side of the border people are on, because there are probably different policies in Wales and Scotland too. At the end of the day, all these things distort the market and we should not distort the market with public money. We need a level playing field, so that farmers can compete very well together.

I want to ask the Minister for an update on the milk package proposals, particularly on the establishment of producer organisations that will be able jointly to negotiate contracts, collaborate over price and adapt the production of their members to market demands. I hope that the farmer-owned co-operatives will be able to work more together to drive the price up, rather than compete with each other, which sometimes drives the price down in the liquid market.

It is also vital that farmers are given more bargaining power. Today, 87% of milk comes from just five companies, resulting in an effective monopoly in some regions.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

The producer group question is really important, because it leads us on to the contracts. It is very important that contracts are fair for farmers; they are already rather too prone to defend the position of the purchaser. Let us ensure that the farmer gets a fair chance in the contract.

[Neil Parish]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s contribution. More producer organisations being able to negotiate decent contracts, and being able to cut the contracts within three months, which is what the voluntary code is all about, will help to drive the price up. In the past, some contracts have done the reverse, and have driven the price down.

Currently, there are no formally recognised producer organisations operating in the dairy sector, nor is there a definite interpretation of what the dairy package regulation means for the establishment and recognition of producer organisations known to the industry. Members will hiss when I say that my experience is that producer organisations are much stronger in many other countries across Europe and, dare I say it, probably get a better price because of that. Let us not always shun what may be done across the channel, but endorse some of it if it improves the price to farmers.

Oral Answers to Questions

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mrs Spelman]

Mr Speaker, you can understand that the Ministers who inherited from the previous Government the ticking time bomb of having no way forward on the statement of principles are frustrated by the suggestion that we get a grip on this. We have, and we are close to an agreement that will provide both universality and affordability of insurance. That underlines the significance of the dereliction of duty by the hon. Gentleman’s party when in office.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

In thanking the Secretary of State for her Department’s help with flood management issues in my constituency, does she agree that flood risk assessments should include natural and man-made defences in any planning?

[Mrs Spelman]

Putting sustainable development at the heart of the planning reform means that flood-affected and flood-prone areas now give greater consideration to their sustainability. Natural and man-made flood defences can both help to make an area prone to flooding more sustainable.

Flood Defences

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Wednesday 18th April 2012 Westminster Hall

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to be holding this debate under your chairmanship, Mr Havard. We are running slightly late because of the Divisions in the main Chamber, but such is the way of parliamentary life. I thank the Minister for making such progress on the issue of flooding in my constituency. He has brokered a useful dialogue between the Environment Agency and the various communities in the area, particularly those along the Severn estuary, and we are immensely grateful to him for that achievement.

Before I put one or two questions to the Minister, I want to talk about three aspects of flooding: consultation on the policy drivers behind the actions being proposed along the Severn estuary; the implementation of flood attenuation in the valley in my constituency; and, finally, insurance.

Stroud is a beautiful place, but it is vulnerable to flooding, especially in the vale, which is flat, and along some of the valleys, which are quite steep. Indeed, we have a variety of characteristics that can cause flooding. We must bear in mind the issues relating not just to Severn estuary flooding but to surface water flooding, which is a problem in my constituency.

Let me turn first to the Severn estuary. With localism in mind, it is important that villagers, farmers, property owners, dwellers and anybody who will be affected by the changes proposed by the Environment Agency should feel that they have had their say, that they are being fully consulted, that they are part of a dialogue and that their concerns are being properly covered. As I have already said, the Minister’s actions have led to such a consultation.

None the less, there are policy drivers behind this complex issue which interest many of my constituents. Not least of course there is the issue of the habitat and the scale of the need for it, which is effectively conditioned by various policy drivers. Concerns have been expressed in my constituency about the new information, new changes and new facts that are now on the table. People would like more clarity and consistency in how the Environment Agency operates. That is not to say that the Environment Agency has not been extraordinarily helpful in many ways, and I personally have a good relationship with its team. I also know that it has honoured its commitment to have people effectively working as communications officers, keeping the local community informed. The Environment Agency has also answered a number of questions posed by the action group, Severn Voice, about the concerns.

Let me stress though that there is a need for the Environment Agency to be absolutely clear about its understanding and interpretation of the policy drivers behind some of the actions being proposed. It is well understood that sea levels might well rise and that measures have to be considered and planned. However, it is equally important to recognise that owners of farmland, houses and so forth need to be treated properly and fairly in the overall scheme of things.

We have an obvious and persistent problem with Slad valley. Water comes streaming down the valley and ends up in Stroud, causing difficulties and hardships for owners of a small number of properties. A group called Vision 21, which is led by Julian Jones, is working hard on the issue of attenuation. It has proposed using various old mill ponds further up the Slad valley as storage areas for when there is a lot of water. The water can thus be dealt with in a managed way without allowing it all to collect at the bottom and cause mayhem. Coupled with that is the proposal for better irrigation and better land use management. Various landowners have expressed interest in such schemes not just because they would prevent flooding in Stroud and Stonehouse but because they would improve drainage and irrigation further up the valley.

It is worth noting here that there would be the opportunity for small-scale hydro power developments, which we have already managed to achieve in one or two parts of my constituency, and that is excellent. There would be further opportunities for such developments if we had a flexible way of dealing with water storage and so forth.

I ask the Minister to encourage the Environment Agency to be less controlling and less directive and a little bit more open-minded about the possibilities that exist in the Slad valley so that flood attenuation can be properly implemented. Such a scheme would be a useful and valuable experiment in this important area. Moreover, it would provide a good example of working with the environment and with the history of Slad valley, with all its mills. The area has all the characteristics of a fantastic place.

We must combine the empowerment of local people with careful planning, which should be conducted through the auspices of the Environment Agency, as interesting, new and innovative measures to deal with water management and flood control are introduced.

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

I have a similar situation in my constituency. Landowners would like to have the flexibility to do more to protect local sea walls. I completely agree with my hon. Friend that we need flexibility and that much of this matter needs to be resolved by the Environment Agency. I urge the Minister to see what he can do to remove some of the barriers that prevent landowners and local residents from taking the actions that my hon. Friend has highlighted.

[Neil Carmichael]

My hon. Friend is right. Removing barriers to deal with other barriers is an interesting concept, but it is absolutely right and quite in line with my approach to the conduct, behaviour and plans of the Environment Agency. It is also in line with the general feeling that the Environment Agency does not always get down to the local level and respond to local needs and local requirements in a flexible enough way.

I will move on to the third issue that I want to talk about, which is home insurance. We have a real problem, because the flood maps available on the Environment Agency website sometimes suggest that people’s homes will be flooded when actually they will not. Also, the maps do not reflect the consequences of natural barriers and, even more importantly, man-made barriers. There are one or two areas in my constituency that prove that point quite well. People could look at a flood map and think to themselves, “Well, the whole place is doomed”, but actually it is not doomed because there are canals and other barriers that will prevent flooding. In fact, the areas that I have in mind, such as Frampton on Severn, have not been flooded in that way, so the flood maps need to be up to date and homeowners need to be assured that they are devised in such a way as to reflect what will actually happen and to show a proper understanding of the type of flood defences that I have just described.

Flood maps are a key issue. I have discussed them with the Association of British Insurers, which has also noted that it is important to keep them up to date. I have suggested that the Environment Agency might like to be more thorough in updating its maps and that it should do so more often—that is effectively the message that I have received—and if it did so, it would be of great assistance. It is also very important for individual insurers to have access to the correct information, so that people who need to gain access to home insurance can do so on the basis of information that is indeed accurate.

That brings me to the new approach that is needed following the statement of principles on flood insurance, which I know is coming to an end. Clearly, that issue is exercising both the insurance industry and, obviously, homeowners. They need some information, guidance and encouragement on how that process is going and where we can expect to be in terms of home insurance in flood areas. That information and guidance would be extremely useful.

In essence, what we are looking for is more transparency and more accuracy in flood mapping, so that home owners, insurers and anybody else who is interested can have more confidence in the maps that they are looking at.

Those are the three key issues. First, it is basically a question of communication and ensuring that people are involved and included. Secondly, it is a question of being innovative and confident about the options that are available, including encouraging the Environment Agency to set those things in motion or at least to allow them to happen. Thirdly, it is a question of having more information for everybody concerned, to give them confidence and comfort as appropriate.

Having made those three points, I will end my remarks by reiterating my thanks to the Minister, both for being here today in Westminster Hall and for the work that he has already done in the interests of people in my constituency who are vulnerable to flooding. I also reiterate that I fully intend to pursue this matter and ensure that we get some solutions that are lasting and worth while.

Oral Answers to Questions

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 1st March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paice]

I assure my hon. Friend that we have no plans to introduce any export restrictions, and that, although one or two third-party states are beginning to raise question marks over not just UK but European livestock because of Schmallenberg, any further regulations will be based on the best scientific advice.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

[The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman)]

My Department takes responsibility for safeguarding the environment, supporting farmers, and strengthening the green economy. At the heart of that is the ambition to create a dynamic and growing rural economy that will play a significant role in helping us to tackle the economic deficit, and yesterday, to that end, we announced a new £60 million grant scheme for rural entrepreneurs. I urge Members to make their constituents aware of this exciting new opportunity, which could, among other things, help towards the building of more farm reservoirs.

[Neil Carmichael]

I certainly welcome that announcement —very impressive indeed.

Many of my constituents along the Severn estuary are grateful for the work of my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon) —who is responsible for water and fisheries—in ensuring that the Environment Agency consults properly during operations that involve dealing with flood defences. Can my right hon. Friend reassure me that that will become the hallmark of the agency’s activities? Consultation is essential to community life.

[Mrs Spelman]

My hon. Friend did well to bring a delegation of farmers and residents of his constituency to meet my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary to discuss the specific question of the Severn estuary. As a result, my hon. Friend asked the Environment Agency to review its plans, and it is now doing so with the aim of reducing the area required for inter-tidal habitat.

Environmental Protection and Green Growth

Neil Carmichael Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

Apart from the fact that we have £2.1 billion prepared for flood defences, does the hon. Lady agree that it is quite right that in my constituency, which was affected by the floods to which she referred, proper consultation is going on with the Environment Agency to deal with the Severn estuary and that a timely imposition of action is much better than something that is rushed? Furthermore, does that not show the importance of localism in such considerations?

[Mary Creagh]

It is clear that localism is absolutely vital and local communities should be able to have a say on developments in their area, but I am not clear how that links in with the Government’s national planning policy framework, which has undefined “sustainable development” at its heart. No one can say what “sustainable development” is.

--- Later in debate ---

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to address the House in this fascinating debate, which has drawn two interesting distinctions between the Government and the Opposition: between statism and localism and between non-joined-up and joined-up government. Several policy areas prove those points.

First, I want to talk about the green economy and what is really happening out there. The shadow Secretary of State painted a picture that did not describe the situation in my constituency or, I believe, beyond it. First, we have, or will have soon, the green investment bank, which is a signal change and a very good idea. It will have £3 billion to invest and will be able to capitalise in 2014, which is a fantastic step forward. Ironically, the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) referred to the Dreamliner aeroplane, a fantastic achievement, which is just about to start flying right now and which has created huge numbers of jobs in this country, because we supply 30% of the products.

Those products are, by definition, along the lines of green investment, because they are all about composite materials, lighter materials and so on, which is great news. Many businesses in my constituency are working hard and successfully at developing new innovation and technologies to tackle issues relevant to the green economy, and I am really proud of that. I encourage them, instead of distracting them with assertions that things are not going well and so forth. Of course, we could improve banks’ performance in investment, but we should still salute what is actually happening. There are countless firms in my constituency that I would happily take the shadow Secretary of State to see, if she so wished.

Another important but neglected issue is the green deal, which will make a huge difference to 22 million homes and which is provided for in upcoming legislation. It is extraordinarily important and will help many people to reduce their energy bills and improve their quality of life because their homes will be better places to live in. That, in itself, will stimulate growth and promote more investment across the piece, which is something that we should all welcome. Certainly, businesses in my constituency are pleased that the green deal is about to be launched.

I talked about localism versus statism. Let us explore that with reference to broadband. I do not know what world the shadow Secretary of State was describing, but the one that I found when I was first elected in Stroud was not one where broadband was particularly accessible to anybody in rural areas in my constituency. Things are improving now, first because of the bold decision of the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport, who came to my constituency and helped to launch a fantastic campaign to promote further investment in broadband. His wisdom was evident in a pilot scheme in Gloucestershire aimed at getting a grip of the technology and investment—£8 million—needed to start promoting broadband. The key point, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) referred, is that we have to be local and flexible. That is the essence of how we will get more and better broadband in Gloucestershire.

I talked about joined-up government versus non-joined-up government. The Minister, who has responsibility for the natural environment and fisheries, came along to the Environmental Audit Committee and proved that we were joined up by sitting next to the Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), who has responsibility for development and cities. They were both talking about the national planning policy framework.

[Fiona O'Donnell (East Lothian) (Lab)]

The hon. Gentleman talks about joined-up government, but the Government’s obsession with the red tape challenge means that the Department for Transport has failed to regulate ship-to-ship transfers of oil, which is leaving wildlife and delicate marine environments such as those in my constituency at risk. How is that joined-up government?

[Neil Carmichael]

Doubtless the Department for Transport will deal with that. We have a new Secretary of State, and I look forward to seeing what she does. However, the fact is that joined-up government is important.

The story that I was telling hon. Members about is still relevant, because the Minister was talking about the national environment White Paper—which has been endorsed by the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the wildlife trusts and so on—in parallel with the national planning policy framework. That is absolutely excellent and is a true demonstration of effective joined-up government helping to deliver polices that make a difference across rural areas. I welcome that. In the past, we saw a Labour Government who were “siloed”; in the future, we see a coalition Government thinking in terms of Departments working together to produce policies that make a difference.

In an intervention, I talked briefly about flooding, but I want to emphasise the importance of localism with reference—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Unfortunately the clock was not going down as the hon. Gentleman was speaking, so he has had more than his time. I would therefore like him to conclude his remarks.

[Neil Carmichael]

I want to draw the House’s attention to the fantastic work that Water21 is doing to promote flood attenuation in the Slad valley. That is a classic example of good localism, good foresight and how flooding can be dealt with in a different, more imaginative way. It is a tribute to the people of Stroud and every—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. I call Caroline Lucas.