Natascha Engel
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I am delighted to have secured this debate and to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. The debate follows an all-party parliamentary inquiry into electoral conduct, which reported only a couple of months ago, and the inquiry itself came about following another inquiry by the all-party parliamentary group against anti-Semitism, which found that anti-Semitism and all other forms of discrimination were still quite alive and well during UK elections. We set up the all-party parliamentary inquiry, which includes not only all parties across this House, but also some Members from the other place, to investigate whether there actually was a problem. When we found that there was, we tried to consider some constructive ways of addressing the issues to ensure that elections in this country are as free and fair as possible and that there is a level playing field for all people who want to put their names forward as candidates.
On the whole, elections in the UK have always been free, just and fair. We live in a mature democracy that values fairness and understands the importance of democracy and elections. Tensions do exist in some areas, however, and they vary between areas and over time. We know exactly where they are and they may be few, but they are a serious problem. The tensions can be ethnic, religious, sectarian or based on gender or sexuality and exist in small pockets around the country, where things can flare up during local council or general elections or by-elections.
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. On that point, does she recognise the debate’s importance given an incident just last week in which a candidate in a local election made seriously offensive remarks about Islam and subsequently stood down?
Absolutely. As we move towards a general election in precisely a year’s time, we increasingly have to deal with offensive comments. From the outset, the inquiry made it clear that we prize above all else freedom of speech and people’s ability to say even offensive things, but also that we wanted to identify the line between speaking freely and being not just offensive but discriminatory.
I congratulate the hon. Lady on her fine chairmanship of the inquiry, on which I was proud to serve. On local elections, there is so much more to do. A candidate in Enfield made appalling racist comments, for example. He resigned, but things nevertheless got to that stage and appropriate action was taken. The strongest words in the report focused on the Equality and Human Rights Commission for dereliction of duty in preventing discrimination during election campaigns. What does the hon. Lady have to say about more needing to be done, particularly by the EHRC?
Order. I ask that interventions be brief. If hon. Members want to speak, there are opportunities, so they can rise if they want.
If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I will come on to discuss the role of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which, as he said, featured greatly in the inquiry’s deliberations when writing the report. We are, however, keeping an eye on local elections.
Before my hon. Friend moves on to the Equality and Human Rights Commission, does she agree that political parties have a fundamental role to play and that, following the inquiry’s brilliant work, they should all sign up to what this cross-party group of MPs has wisely recommended?
Absolutely. At top and bottom of our recommendations was the role of political parties. In fact, my hon. Friend and I have been busy speaking to people within political parties to ensure that they sign up not only in principle but in practice to some kind of code of conduct that allows individuals, be they candidates, members of the public or political party workers, to know where to go when there is not just a complaint, but a serious concern. Even though we have some recommendations for different agencies, it is the political parties that really need to work together. Having said that, we had good representations from all political parties, especially the smaller parties that compete against the large, mainstream political machines. They really co-operated with the inquiry and were looking forward to being given help to do better, so we were impressed by them.
I am delighted to see the hon. Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott) present. One thing that came out strongly from the inquiry was that some of the examples that we heard, some of which we could not publish in our report, were very extreme. Even though they are few and far between, I was shocked by some of the things that happen. I wish that they did not, and hope that we can work towards making them less likely to happen. Although we would like to wipe the problem out, it will always occur, so we need to ensure that people are less likely to behave in a discriminatory way in order to gain an electoral advantage. Our inquiry found that people in some areas were not putting their names forward as candidates out of fear for their lives, which happened across the board. Whether the tensions were religious, ethnic or based on their sexuality or gender, we found that people who would have been good candidates for elected office at any level were not putting their names forward. Everyone on the inquiry felt that that was unacceptable. We were impressed by the hon. Member for Ilford North and the former Member for Gloucester, Parmjit Dhanda, and understood how brave it was for them to give oral evidence in public, for which we were grateful.
A problem that we highlight in the report and would like a wider discussion about is that the offence, which can be intimidating and secretive in nature, is difficult to combat. A racist sitting in their garage printing vile leaflets will not put their name and address in an imprint on the bottom to enable the police to knock on their door and say, “This is unacceptable.” By its nature, the offence can be difficult to trace. The often tight-knit communities where smearing propaganda is being put out are closed by their nature and it can be difficult to get hold of the evidence in order to prove anything. That does not mean, however, that we should not try, or should not try to ensure that people are educated properly to make it less likely that this vile rubbish goes out in the first place.
In our report, we quoted at great length the 11—we thought that there were 10—self-evident and basic principles outlined by Lord Lester in his pamphlet from the 1990s, “Political Speech and Race Relations in a Liberal Democracy”. They are basic principles, but excellent ones. I will not read all of them, but an important one is:
“The right to free and unfettered political speech and debate is fundamental to democracy.”
We tried to achieve balance in our report, because where does robust political campaigning end and discrimination begin? On the one hand, we were all clear that we knew where the line was. On the other hand, we did not want an environment in which no one can come out and say things, even if they are sometimes offensive. Let people be judged at the ballot box; if they make rude, hurtful or nasty remarks, they tend to stand down because of public pressure or pressure from within their political party—that is the best pressure—or they are voted down in elections.
I, for one, was therefore delighted to see the end of the British National party, pretty much, at the last election. That demonstrates my point: once BNP members got elected to office, people saw how they behaved, did not like it and voted them out. That is how things should be. What we are trying to tackle is behaviour on the extremes that is not only unacceptable but intimidating and threatening, putting people in fear and stopping them putting their names forward as candidates.
I will go through some of our recommendations. In our call for evidence, we received some 50 responses from different organisations, including not only political parties but the election agencies—there was also a lot of interest from international election agencies—the police, who were very engaged with the inquiry; a lot of academics; trade unions; local councils, which gave some excellent evidence; and non-governmental organisations and Government agencies. We held two oral evidence sessions, which were well attended and very interesting, and some surprising things came out of them. I thank all those who put in written evidence and who took the time to come along to our sessions. Our inquiry was very rich in evidence and, as a result, we could produce a strong report at the end of it.
The report focused on a number of policy concerns, primarily policing and the law. The police who attended were engaged with electoral conduct—they have special units to deal with it—but the people who really impressed us were former members of the Commission for Racial Equality. They gave some excellent evidence on past best practice that had worked well and was being developed. It involved going out into communities that had already been identified, working with them and their leaders and the local councils, keeping information and developing databases, and focusing on the positive educational side. One of our recommendations to the Equality and Human Rights Commission is to look at the toolkit that the CRE had produced, dust it down, update it and see whether we can use it in the run-up to the next general election.
Reflecting on where the EHRC finds itself, does my hon. Friend share the view of many members of the committee? We could not quite understand why there has been that stepping back from good activity by the leadership of the EHRC. Should that not be what an Equality and Human Rights Commission is for in a democracy?
Absolutely. All of us on the committee were surprised at the attitude of the EHRC, especially as their evidence was initially positive and constructive.
I hope that the Minister will make at least one point clear to us. The EHRC says that it wants an instruction from the Government, and the Government say that it is properly a matter for the EHRC. We need clarity to ensure that we do not drop the ball and that previous good work is carried forward. We must be able at least to sort that out today.
Yes. I am going to skip around a bit and get hopelessly lost, so I might end up not doing all the bits that I wanted to, but I want to clarify that point. After the publication of the report, we had meetings with each of the different agencies that had given evidence and that we felt could do something to help. We have already mentioned the political parties, which must be the driving force, but all the other agencies were keen to help and open to recognising that there was a problem—that things were not working as well as they might once have done and certainly could work in the future.
Our issue with the EHRC was that it is the only organisation out of all those that came to give evidence to have one of those overarching umbrella roles. Obviously, the Commission for Racial Equality morphed into the EHRC, and we were sad to see that a lot of the excellent work that had been done in the CRE had got lost, shelved or was not carried forward. Our meetings with the EHRC were all focused on its budget cuts, on how it could no longer be as proactive as it might like and on how it was far more focused on providing policy research or legal help for those bringing cases of discrimination; it did not see its role as being anything to do with ensuring that conduct during election time was free, fair and not discriminatory. That kind of umbrella organisation is needed to lead the way, and we felt that leadership was lacking. All the other organisations can do what they like, but they do it in silos; we need the EHRC to knit everything together, so that we can all work together harmoniously to ensure that elections are more fairly conducted. Both of the points made by my right hon. Friend and the hon. Gentleman are enormously important.
We have a meeting with the Minister planned for June, and it would be enormously helpful if a senior member of the EHRC were present. We recognise what the EHRC was keen to point out—that it is independent of Government and it has a board that sets strategy and decides on what its budget is spent on; and, moreover, that the strategy has been set and the money allocated, and not for the work that we are doing—but if someone from the EHRC was present at our meeting in June and the problem is a lack of resourcing, we as parliamentarians might be able to help with that.
I was going to ask the Minister about this, but my understanding is that the EHRC has programme funding that is held back and can be bid for. Perhaps it could put in a bid for the very work that my hon. Friend is calling for.
That is a helpful intervention and we are discussing that. The issue, however, is one of attitude. What we were so surprised by was the “No” response, when everyone else was saying, “Yes, we really want to help, what can we do? How can we most constructively go about doing it?” The EHRC response was, instantly, “No.” It is a question of changing attitudes and seeing what each of us can do in our own capacity to make sure that the work can go ahead.
I have already mentioned the police; I should mention the Association of Chief Police Officers and specifically two people who have been enormously helpful and positive. Gary Cann and John Askew recognised that we can do a lot more and made constructive proposals about how we can go about doing so, as well as giving us the benefit of their experience, which was invaluable to our work.
The Electoral Commission was also extremely co-operative—we met with Jenny Watson after our report was published. The commission was willing to do anything within its remit and said that as long as political parties could agree on this step, it would be more than happy to be the signposting organisation. Lots of people already go to the Electoral Commission for advice and information, and it would be more than happy to signpost people—be they candidates or individuals with issues or complaints—to the available information. The Electoral Commission was keen to work not just with us but with the Equality and Human Rights Commission, the police and ACPO.
The political parties are key. The next election will be even tighter than before, and tensions are often higher in the run-up to tight elections than they would otherwise be. It is therefore important that all the political parties are signed up. Those of us here today represent different political parties; we should all act from within to make sure that our own party does everything it can. One helpful suggestion was the idea of having a named and prominent person within each political party to whom a complaint can be referred.
It is important that complaints are referred quickly, but one issue came up again and again. Often when some appalling behaviour occurs, whoever is responsible can be identified, and although people are sometimes reluctant to name names, they want the situation resolved quickly, before it gets out of hand. Sometimes candidates in general election campaigns behave in ways that their own political parties are not necessarily aware of, and would be shocked by if they were. It is a question of speed and of making sure that people—candidates and the electorate—are confident that political parties are dealing with problems quickly and that there will be an outcome. We will need safety nets to make sure there are not a million malicious and mischievous complaints, but if we are all committed, we can find a way to identify a threshold for such a process. Political parties are absolutely key.
The big problem we identified was third parties or non-parties—we are back to our racist in the garage printing nasty leaflets, who will not necessarily belong to any organised grouping and could simply be acting as an individual. Dealing with those people is going to be a big problem. Although we identified education as key to everything, we need to find ways to clamp down on that sort of non-party, third party organisation.
In summary—I want to allow others to speak—we would like the Minister not to interfere with the independence of the Equality and Human Rights Commission but to encourage it to work far more proactively with us and to show leadership. That will be key. We made a lot of progress with all the other agencies, so we want to encourage the EHRC to work more proactively with us. I have already mentioned our meeting with the Minister in June to make sure that she can encourage somebody from the EHRC to attend.
We also identified the press as a key area, but feel that there are some legislative weaknesses. Although we know that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport is not the Department dealing with the press code, we hope that in its work with the Press Complaints Commission, it can highlight that there is a problem. People complaining to the Press Complaints Commission have to do so on the grounds of inaccuracy—that is what they have to prove. We want the Press Complaints Commission specifically to look at discrimination and some of the appalling behaviour during elections. Inaccuracy to us means something completely different from discrimination.
Our final point is outside the Minister’s remit, but it would be useful if she passed it on to colleagues in the Department for Communities and Local Government. Local government has a massive role to play in how candidates behave during election campaigns. Much of the relevant training is conducted through local authorities, and democratic services and electoral services at local authority level have to deal with a lot of the complaints in the first place. A lot more training is needed; that training ended with the Commission for Racial Equality and we would like it to be picked up again, so there can be training in areas where there are local tensions. There is legal provision for local authorities to correct false or misleading information, but that is falling by the wayside a little at the moment, so will the Minister encourage her colleagues to highlight that with the Department to make sure that that provision is used properly?
Finally, I thank all the members of the committee, who gave long service to our inquiry—one of the oral evidence sessions lasted an entire day. Our members were the hon. Member for Pudsey (Stuart Andrew); Lord Alderdice; Lord Beecham; the hon. Member for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray), who also acted as vice-chair and took on a lot of the chairman’s role; the hon. Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes); my right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy); my hon. Friends the Members for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood) and for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra); the right hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Sir Andrew Stunell); and the hon. Members for Belfast East (Naomi Long) and for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford). I thank each and every one of them for all their service.
Our debate today is timely. There is exactly a year to go until the next general election, so the clock is ticking. If all of us—the agencies, the political parties and ourselves as parliamentarians— work together, we can make a difference and make sure that the next general election is cleaner, fairer, better and more just than previous elections. I hope we can foster an atmosphere of fairness so that we fight elections on policy, not on personality or people’s sexual orientation or religious or ethnic background.
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) for securing this important debate and opening it so well. She and her colleagues should be congratulated for their stewardship of the inquiry on electoral conduct and the quality of the excellent report they produced, which we are discussing today. I also commend my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann), who is not in his place at the moment, and who chairs the all-party group on anti-Semitism, for its tireless work in tackling discrimination at all levels.
The report has plugged a big gap in the study of the democratic process in the UK and I hope that it will become compulsory reading for everyone, from political parties and candidates to local authority officials, and particularly for the Electoral Commission and the Equality and Human Rights Commission. It contains examples of the worst of human behaviour, some of which we heard about from the hon. Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott). He was brave to talk about it, and even braver to live with it day in, day out. I commend him for his determination to carry on doing so. It is all the more horrendous, reading the report, to realise that such things have been perpetrated against people we know and consider friends. For instance, there is discussion of the pig’s head left outside the family home of Parmjit Dhanda, a former Minister who was an excellent colleague. The report also highlights things written in his local newspaper. Colleagues yesterday reminded me of the anti-Semitic campaign waged against my right hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) by his Lib Dem opponent at the last election.
One of the issues I am looking at, at the moment, is how we can increase the representation of people from black and minority ethnic communities at all levels of the political system, not in a spirit of box-ticking or tokenism, but because our political system and the decisions that it makes are better if they more accurately reflect the country and the communities they affect. I am sure that for many candidates the threat of their skin colour, background or faith—not to mention their children’s or relatives’—being turned into smears or innuendo or leading to harassment or abuse such as we have heard about today is a real consideration. Of course, that applies to gender as well.
I am sure that the Minister and other hon. Members will be aware that the all-party group on women in Parliament is doing significant work on the issue, and I am pleased to be on the panel for that. I worry that the fear I have described will mean that many excellent candidates never seek their local party’s nomination or get the chance to be elected. None of us goes into politics without the fear of attack, and none of us is immune from attack on some level; but we should always expect any attacks on us to be based on choices or decisions that we have made, the things we have said, the way we have voted, or what we have done. We should never accept attacks based on the things we cannot change about ourselves, such as race, gender, sexual orientation or disabilities. Neither should we attack others, or allow them to be attacked by our supporters or others, in that vein.
Every talented and enthusiastic potential candidate who shrinks away from seeking office because of the fear, perceived or real, that they will be the victim of discrimination, is a loss to their community and the country. Those people are also a loss to the political party that they might have represented. Political parties owe their survival to the continual need to bring through new talent and come up with new ideas. They cannot afford to exclude people from that, and neither can they afford people excluding themselves because of a fear of discrimination.
If for no other reason than that, all the major political parties should pay close heed to the recommendations in the report—particularly on how they support candidates in withstanding such attacks. I am happy to discuss that with my hon. Friend the Member for North East Derbyshire in my role as Labour’s spokesperson on equalities. She and our colleagues will know that there are some support networks out there. For example, I am a mentor for the Fabian women’s network candidates programme, and have been paired with our prospective parliamentary candidate for Brighton, Kemptown. The party has its own future candidates programme, and I am sure that other parties do similar things. I am certainly keen to discuss with my hon. Friend what more we can do.
The debate is timely, in the sense that we are well into an electoral period in which there has rightly been a particular focus on the views of certain candidates—and particularly those of a certain party. However, as the report makes clear, the problems are not exclusive to an individual party or to far-right groups. Nor are they confined to a certain election or historical period. They are persistent, cyclical problems that will continue unless we do something meaningful about them.
One of the big problems we found was that the mainstream political parties feel that they already have processes in place; they do not want people to see them as not working as well as they should on the issue. Will my hon. Friend work within the Labour party to ensure that we are committed to signing up to something with all the other political parties, rather than working with them in a conflictual manner, so that we can achieve the greater aim? I just want to get her commitment to work within the Labour party so that we can do that from our side.
I can definitely give that commitment today to work with my hon. Friend to see what we can do within our party.
The central thing that I took from the report was the need for a statutory body to take a lead. There is much that political parties can do and agree on, especially at this time in the electoral cycle, but we should not be under any illusion: come 2015, all political parties will be primarily and almost myopically focused on the campaign and on winning every vote they can. It will simply not be possible for national or even regional officers to vet or review every single leaflet, YouTube clip or tweet from their candidates or their opponents, or anyone else who seeks to influence votes, as in the kind of non-party campaigning outlined in the report. Nor is it possible for political parties to issue guidance to public bodies on their duties to promote equality and good relations between communities.
We have an Electoral Commission and an Equality and Human Rights Commission; and we also have the police for when things really cross over into illegality, such as in the incident described by the hon. Member for Ilford North. The EHRC has had serious budget and staff cuts during this Parliament, but I cannot believe that it no longer has the capacity to play a role. After all, what could be more damaging to equality and good relations between communities than influential people such as local or national politicians using discriminatory language, producing discriminatory campaign literature, or being seen to condone such discrimination?
I hear what the right hon. Gentleman has to say, and I know that he participated in the inquiry. However, the issues are electoral ones. The Electoral Commission publishes guidance and deals with misconduct. If the sin or the abuse is worse than misconduct, it is, of course, discrimination and it is dealt with by the courts. If it is worse than that—if it amounts to hate crime or racism—the police will take such matters seriously. If political parties feel that codes of practice are needed, it is for them to reach agreement and produce such codes.
I think the point that the right hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Sir Andrew Stunell) raised, which I would like to raise as well, is that there is a need for the EHRC to look at preventing discrimination. The Minister is talking about a process for dealing with discrimination when it is found, but we are saying that it would be much better if the EHRC were more proactive in going out and training, advising and using toolkits to prevent discrimination from happening in the first place.
I hear and understand the point that the hon. Lady is making. The EHRC is a highly respected, A-status established body. I know that she has concerns, but the EHRC does a huge amount of work to tackle unlawful discrimination and promote equality. Should it do more? That is something that we might discuss in our meeting in June, but I must emphasise that the EHRC is independent, and it must decide what it will do. It is important that lobbyists lobby appropriately, particularly when it comes to racism and discrimination. I will say a little more about the role and function of the EHRC as I progress.
If the EHRC’s remit was extended to cover electoral law, it might go beyond its powers as specified in the Equality Act 2010. Some of the ideas raised today might well result in such an outcome, so we must be careful. It would be inappropriate for the EHRC to draw up annual guidance on electoral conduct, as set out in recommendation 3 of the inquiry report—the Electoral Commission leads on that area—or on hate crime, which the police enforce through the courts. Instead, the Government believe that relevant groups, including all-party parliamentary groups, and hon. Members who have concerns must work with the Electoral Commission and the police to deliver recommendations aimed at electoral reform, criminal harassment and hate crime.
I agree with the all-party parliamentary inquiry that it is important that people know exactly where to go if a candidate’s campaign material contains false or misleading statements or breaches of electoral rules. However, the Electoral Commission already produces guidance for the police and the Association of Chief Police Officers, so it seems sensible for the police and the Electoral Commission to ensure that that guidance covers discrimination and hate crime rather than for the EHRC to create separate guidance. We are in agreement about what needs to be done; it is simply a question of the vehicle, the tool or the method by which we achieve it. I want to work with the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire on this.
Recommendation 19 suggests that the EHRC should produce a standardised framework for reporting discrimination during election campaigns. In practice, the Electoral Commission and the police have their own published guidance on how to report electoral misconduct and how to report a crime. Guidance on reporting unlawful discrimination is available from the Equality Advisory and Support Service, which is funded by the Department for Culture, Media and Sport.
Let me pick up some of the other questions that I have been asked. I have touched on the question of encouraging the EHRC to work more proactively and to show leadership, and we can certainly discuss that when we meet in June. I will be happy to see the hon. Lady and members of the commission there. Of course, the EHRC will be invited, and I am hopeful that a very senior person will be able to attend. As I have said, it is for relevant groups, APPGs and concerned Members of the House to lobby and make the case to the EHRC’s board, which sets its work programme. My right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Sir Andrew Stunell) will be pleased, because I am moving right off the type of script that he described. The EHRC may be able to provide assistance, and when we meet, we can discuss that further.
The hon. Member for North East Derbyshire mentioned the press code and asked whether the Department for Culture, Media and Sport could raise with the Press Complaints Commission the issue of discrimination. The standards code is a matter for press self-regulation, not for Government, but I hope that there will be an opportunity for organisations to put forward their views on any revisions to the standards in the code.
What the hon. Lady had to say about the possibilities for local authorities was very interesting. I am happy to raise such issues with Ministers from the Department for Communities and Local Government, but I can tell her now that it is already an offence to make or publish false statements about the personal character or conduct of other candidates; it is also an offence to publish or distribute threatening, abusive or insulting material that is intended to stir up racial hatred. Of course, it is for the returning officer to investigate any claims of electoral malpractice, and they would refer the matter to the police for further investigation if necessary.
The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson), asked a couple of times whether the EHRC could use the programme funding to help to fund the type of work we are discussing, if it felt that that was appropriate; my right hon. Friend the Member for Hazel Grove (Sir Andrew Stunell) also raised that issue. I can tell them both that programme funding bids can be made, provided they do not overlap with the work of other Government Departments or agencies. It is a matter for the EHRC to make that application, not for the Government to tell it to do so, and it must decide what work it considers appropriate and wants to do. The shadow Minister asked whether any such bid had been made thus far; to my knowledge, no bid has been made in relation to this particular type of work.
The shadow Minister asked about the current role and functioning of the EHRC. It certainly does want to promote understanding and good practice, and it has indicated that it will use its powers under section 8 of the Equality Act 2006 to enable it to do so with any interested parties. However, as the hon. Lady knows, the EHRC no longer has a specific good relations mandate, and the Equality Acts do not apply specifically to electoral conduct.
Budget cuts were raised, but I am not going to dwell on that because I do not want us to be distracted from such an important debate, which focuses on the very important problems of discrimination and racism. Nevertheless, I can confirm that the EHRC was not established to deal with electoral issues; it was set up to deal with equality and human rights issues.
The parliamentary inquiry on electoral conduct was thorough and detailed and made recommendations to a number of bodies, including the Electoral Commission, the police and political parties. Building its findings into current work and guidance and working with the right organisations is the best way to ensure that political life becomes a battle of ideas, not of race hate and discrimination. The inquiry raised very important issues relating to racism and discrimination in elections that must be dealt with. The means to tackle those problems are in place, but it is important that all concerned work towards combating racism and discrimination. I will of course play my part where I can.