Children's Wellbeing and Schools Bill (Eighth sitting)

Munira Wilson Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 30th January 2025 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

When we get to that amendment, I will ask you to formally move it.

[Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)]

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Bournemouth East for the powerful way in which he shared his personal story. I thank him for that genuinely. I was quite saddened before lunch, because there was quite a lot of discord in the room on an issue where there is actually quite a lot of unanimity. We all genuinely want to bring down the cost of school uniforms.

I am still slightly perplexed by the Minister’s response to amendment 87; her point that it would reduce choice is a red herring. There is nothing to stop parents going to high street shops for shirts, trousers, skirts and all that. We are just saying that there should be a cost cap. In the arguments I heard from the Back Benches, the hon. Member for Derby North even made the point that we should consider a cost cap and, in an intervention on the right hon. Member for East Hampshire, the hon. Member for Portsmouth North said that at the moment, schools can charge £100 for a blazer—well, under this legislation, they still could. That is precisely why a cost cap makes much more sense than an item cap.

I take on board the Minister’s point about regional variation; that is something that could be addressed, but regional variation exists now. A blazer that costs £100 in London might cost £75 in the north-east, and that will still be the case. A cap would guarantee cost savings to parents and give flexibility to schools, whereas the legislation as it stands will not guarantee cost savings on branded items. It is a no-brainer, and I therefore want to press the amendment to a vote.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Stephen Morgan)]

I, too, pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East for his thoughtful contribution, speaking from the heart on why the measures in this landmark Bill are so important.

Amendments 33 and 46 seek to amend the clause to remove the requirement for parents to obtain local authority consent to home educate should the child attend a special school arranged by the local authority. It is necessary to have that requirement. It provides a check to ensure that home education is in the best interests of the child, and that there are no education suitability issues resulting from no longer attending a special school.

A similar requirement has existed in secondary legislation for many years. I consider it appropriate for such a requirement to be in primary legislation to ensure consistency as part of the new package of consent requirements. I do not consider that children in those circumstances are necessarily at greater risk, but they will have a higher level of need when it comes to ensuring a suitable education. Therefore, no longer attending a special school may impact educational provision and is vital to ensure that it is in the best interests of the child to be home educated, and that suitable arrangements have been made for their education before the child comes off roll. Therefore, for the reasons I have out- lined, I ask the hon. Members kindly to withdraw their amendments.

[Munira Wilson]

Does the Minister recognise—as Dr Homden said in her oral evidence, when I questioned her on this matter—that given such a fundamental lack of provision in the state sector, which I think is recognised in all parts of the House, in particular for special school provision, for some children, whatever provision is prescribed in the EHCP is just not available? Therefore, it sometimes is in the best interest of the child to withdraw them to home educate. The fact that parents may be penalised or stopped from doing that could be much more detrimental to a child.

[Stephen Morgan]

I thank the hon. Member for raising those issues. She is a real champion, certainly on SEND issues and the challenges that parents face. I will say a bit more about the points that she made shortly. My hon. Friend the Minister for School Standards is also a real champion of these issues and will set out our reform plans later this year.

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Amendment 68 would require that the Government shall annually publish the GCSE results of children listed on the register. Regarding the proposed new section 436C and the very high level of detail that is being asked for, what assessment has been made of the usefulness of such detailed information? Has it been tested anywhere and worked through as an exercise? Finally, a question that many real, fantastic and loving home-educating parents will ask: what do the Government deem to be an appropriate number of hours from each parent? We are asking about how many hours are spent educating the child, which almost implies there is a wrong answer to that question. What does the Minister think the wrong answer to that question will look like?

[Munira Wilson]

I rise to speak in support of clause 25 and to amendment 86 in my name. As I said on Second Reading, the Liberal Democrats strongly support the introduction of a register of children not in school; it is an overdue measure which is supported by all parties, and I am very glad to see this Government introducing it.

I know from my own inbox, as well as from the many pieces of written evidence the Committee has received, that many parents of home-educated children feel that the register is an attack on them, so I want to reiterate—it is certainly my own party’s position—that we fundamentally support parents’ right to choose to home educate. This is about keeping children safe. We have had so many reports, not least from the Children’s Commissioner about children just disappearing from the system, and about how important this register is. The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children and other children’s organisations also support it.

I share the concerns of the hon. Member for Harborough, Oadby and Wigston around how much information is being asked of families to provide for this register, as stated on the face of the Bill. As I sat during Christmas recess reading it, I was quite shocked; I questioned why this information was needed and what it was going to be used for. I thought it was very instructive that I thought, “Look, Munira, you’re not the expert here,” and asked the experts, but when I asked Andy Smith from the Association of Directors of Children’s Services at the oral evidence session last week if he thought this level of detail was needed, his words were

“there may be some reflection on whether there needs to be such a level of detail captured.”—[Official Report, 21 January 2025; Vol. 760, c. 15.]

[Neil O'Brien]

I worry that local authorities are going to drown in a sea of information; rather than having simple information they can use to make a decision; they will have so much that they will be wading through it and everything will be slowed down.

[Munira Wilson]

Absolutely—I agree completely. I was talking to the director of children’s services in my own borough earlier this week about it, and read the provisions to him. I think he was shocked as well, and wondered how they would be implemented. I say this very much in the spirit of making the measure workable, but I urge Ministers to think again about the amount of information being collected. We think that a number of the amendments tabled by His Majesty’s Opposition are sensible and proportionate, and would mean that the measure is less intrusive.

Amendment 86, which stands in my name and that of my hon. Friend the Member for St Neots and Mid Cambridgeshire, is a simple safeguarding provision. Where both parents are required to give their details, if there is a safeguarding reason that it would be bad for one parent’s address to be revealed to the other, for example because it would make the child or the other parent unsafe in a case of domestic abuse, the amendment would mean that that requirement did not apply. It would make sure that everybody is kept safe.

I have a couple of other comments on the level of detail required. Have Ministers thought about whether the measure will have a disproportionate impact on the families of SEND children? We have received written evidence, and I have received emails, from those who have made the difficult decision to home educate because of SEND needs that are not being met in the state sector. They are often home educating because their children cannot cope with regular school schedules. At home, they can educate and work with the ebb and flow; how they educate will be much more fluid. Parents are asking, “How on earth am I to meet these requirements? Will I be breaking the law if I cannot exactly quantify how many hours I have spent each week doing a certain task, given the way I need to educate my child in order that they can thrive?” For instance, if a child is being taught about nutrition and food technology while cooking dinner with their parents, will that count as part of the education time? I am not sure. I hope that the Minister will address those concerns.

I am slightly alarmed by proposed new section 436C(2)(a), which provides that information about a child’s protected characteristics will be collected. Some faith groups are worried about how that data might be used in judging the success of their education. Can the Minister allay those fears?

Proposed new section 436C(5) refers to information about data being published. I would hope that very little data is being published at all. I know that the measures contain safeguards, but other than a headline-level understanding of how many children are being educated not in school, we do not need to publish too much. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

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[The Chair]

I think the hon. Member for Twickenham gave notice that she wished to move amendment 86.

[Munira Wilson]

No, I do not wish to move it. I just wanted to make one comment on the last sentence from the Minister.

[The Chair]

Sorry, but we have debated it now. It would be time to move amendment 86. Sorry, I misunderstood the hon. Lady.

[Munira Wilson]

I would like to speak on the impact assessment.

[Catherine McKinnell]

Imminently.

[Munira Wilson]

Imminently? Okay.

Clause 25 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 26

School attendance orders