Government Car and Despatch Agency Business Plan

Mike Penning Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

I am today announcing the next stage of the reform of the Government Car and Despatch Agency. By the end of this calendar year we intend to have ended GCDA’s agency status and to have integrated it into the Department for Transport.

We expect potential savings in administration costs of around £1.3 million to be achieved from the ending of agency status once all of the functions have been successfully merged with the Department. We will continue to publish information on expenditure and income to maintain financial transparency.

I am also announcing the publication of the 2012-13 business plan for GCDA.

The business plan sets out:

the services the agency will continue to deliver until agency status ends and details of the continuing significant change and reform programme being implemented there;

the resources they require, and

a framework of measures by which their performance will be assessed

The measures allow service users and members of the public to assess how the agency is performing in delivering its key services and reforms and in managing agency finances.

The business plan will be available electronically on agency websites and copies will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

Historic Vehicles MOT

Mike Penning Excerpts

Monday 21st May 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

Today I am announcing the Government’s plan to exempt all vehicles of historic interest (vehicles manufactured prior to 1 January 1960) in Great Britain (GB) from statutory MOT test, as allowed under article 4(2) of the EU Directive 2009/40/EC. I am also publishing the outcome of the consultation (with Government response) on our proposal to exempt historic vehicles from the MOT test which closed on 26 January 2012.

The EU directive of the European Parliament and of the Council, chapter II, exceptions, article 4 states;

“Member states may, after consulting the Commission, exclude from the scope of this directive, or subject to special provisions, certain vehicles operated or used in exceptional conditions and vehicles which are never, or hardly ever, used on public highways, including vehicles of historic interest which were manufactured before 1 January I960 or which are temporarily withdrawn from circulation. Member states may, after consulting the Commission, set their own testing standards for vehicles considered to be of historic interest”.

While the pre-1960 manufactured vehicles made up 0.6% of the 35.2 million licensed vehicles in GB they were involved in just 0.03% of road casualties and accidents. Two-thirds of them are driven under 500 miles a year and their initial MOT test failure rate (10%) is only a third of that of post-1960 manufactured vehicles.

Following consultation, the Government have concluded that we should proceed with exempting all pre-1960 manufactured vehicles from the MOT test. The Government believe that the exemption will reduce regulatory burden on owners of historic vehicles, meet its reducing regulation agenda and the desire to remove unnecessary burdens. It will also bring the age of vehicles requiring the statutory MOT test in line with the Goods Vehicles (Plating and Testing) Regulations 1988, which already exempts unladen pre-1960 manufactured heavy goods vehicles from the roadworthiness test. Owners of pre-1960 manufactured vehicles will still retain the option to do voluntary MOT test on their vehicles.

The outcome of consultation with Government response can be found on the Department’s website.

An amendment will be made to regulation 6 of the Motor Vehicles (Tests) Regulations 1981 to enable the MOT exemption. It is my intention that the changes come into force by 18 November 2012.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mike Penning Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

4. What steps her Department is taking to reduce congestion caused by roadworks.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

We are consulting on plans to make it easier for local authorities to introduce roadworks permit schemes allowing them to control and co-ordinate works better. We have made regulations to allow “pioneer” lane rental schemes, and we are increasing the charges that local authorities can impose where works overrun time limits.

[Gareth Johnson]

I am grateful to the Minister for his answer, as roadworks can be extremely frustrating for all motorists. Will he therefore do all he can to ensure that utility companies take a co-ordinated approach and that, wherever possible, they avoid undertaking roadworks during rush-hour periods?

[Mike Penning]

Utility companies have the powers to carry out roadworks, but it is very important that they work with local authorities and finish on time. We intend to increase the fine for not finishing on time to £5,000 a day for the first three days, and to £10,000 a day for every day thereafter. I fully understand my hon. Friend’s frustration about works being briefly started and then stopped before being resumed again a few days later. We need to address that.

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

Is not the best way to tackle congestion both at roadworks and everywhere else simply to get more people on their bikes? As a result of The Times campaign, we now have a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to boost cycling in Britain. There is now media support, cross-party support in this House and huge public support. Instead of just being given a list of all the measures on cycling that the Government are taking, we need fresh thinking and new ideas, and investment shifted to cycling from other areas of transport spending. We must take this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to boost cycling in Britain.

[Mike Penning]

Cycling is very popular in this country, and becoming even more so. The Government support The Times campaign. I have met many of those involved, and we support most of the things The Times has called for. The sort of roadworks my hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) was talking about would not be affected by such cycling measures, however. We are trying to make sure that utility companies do not dig up the roads and then leave them open without having finished the works.

[Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con)]

5. What estimate she has made of the effect of the High Speed 2 rail project on job creation.

Highways Agency and Network Rail (Fire Risk Audit Reports)

Mike Penning Excerpts

Thursday 19th April 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

Progress is being made with considering these reports, and I will make a statement shortly.

Driving Tests (Taking Testing to the Customer)

Mike Penning Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

Last year I asked the Driving Standards Agency (DSA) to consider arrangements for delivering practical car driving tests from premises other than traditional driving test centres such as local authority buildings or leisure centres to provide a more local service for candidates.

Early indications from a limited pilot are encouraging and I am pleased feedback so far has been positive.

I have now asked the agency to further develop the model. Five additional areas have been identified in and/or surrounding: Kettering, Glasgow, Manchester, Worcester and Watford. These will be centred on an existing driving test centre “hub”. They represent a mix of urban and rural locations. Examiners based at the hub will conduct tests from additional satellite locations within the zone. Subject to finding suitable premises and the availability of driving test standard routes I have asked DSA to explore the possibility of providing tests from the following satellite locations:

Kettering—Corby, Market Harborough and Wellingborough

Glasgow—Johnstone, Renfrew, East Kilbride, Cathcart and Bearsden

Manchester—Cheadle, Altrincham, Salford, Middleton, Ashton-under-Lyne and Oldham

Worcestershire—Kidderminster, Droitwich and Bromsgrove

Watford—Hemel Hempstead, Harpenden, Hatfield and Welwyn Garden City.

I am also pleased to announce the publication of a prior information notice in the Official Journal of the European Union for public and private organisations to work in partnership with the DSA to identify and provide locations from which the practical car test could be delivered. DSA will encourage engagement by a wide section of the business community, including retail and hotel groups to provide premises from which the agency could operate.

Tests will continue to be conducted by DSA examiners.

Motoring Agencies Business Plans and Performance Frameworks

Mike Penning Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

I am pleased to announce the publication of the business plans for the Highways Agency and the Department for Transport’s Motoring Agencies—the Driving Standards Agency (DSA), the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), the Vehicle Certification Agency (VGA), and the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA).

The business plans set out:

i. the services each agency will deliver and any significant changes they plan to make;

ii. the resources they require; and

iii. a framework of measures by which their performance will be assessed.

The measures allow service users and members of the public to assess how the agencies are performing in delivering their key services and reforms and in managing agency finances.

The business plans will be available electronically on agency websites and copies will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses in due course.

Light Dues

Mike Penning Excerpts

Monday 12th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

The appropriate provision of marine aids to navigation preserves life at sea and protects our coasts from pollution, a task the Government entrust to the three general lighthouse authorities for the United Kingdom and Ireland. However, we must balance this responsibility against the efficiencies demanded of all public sector organisations and our continued drive to minimise cost.

In my written ministerial statement of 26 July 2010, Official Report, columns 75-76WS, I stated my desire to provide the shipping industry with long-term stability in the level of light dues paid for marine aids to navigation. In December 2010, I made a commitment not to increase light dues for at least three years; the industry welcomed it, and I remain committed to it, Official Report, column 24WS.

Over the last year, I have continued to work with the general lighthouse authorities to identify where it is prudent and appropriate to rationalise services, enlisting the expertise of the authorities’ joint strategic board to examine the question of pension liabilities and ever-closer working between the general lighthouse authorities themselves. We have identified and exploited considerable opportunities for greater efficiency, the most notable relating to aids to navigation monitoring centralisation, buoy yard reorganisation and staffing reductions. These have succeeded in lowering running costs substantially, against a targeted five year reduction of 17% the general lighthouse authorities now expect to achieve 19%.

Furthermore, the Department for Transport tendered and replaced part of the general lighthouse fund investment portfolio to facilitate its use for a general lighthouse authorities staff pension reserve; the new portfolio reduces investment risk and facilitates stability.

These initiatives and efficiencies have enabled me to freeze light dues this year. Since I became shipping Minister, there has been a real terms light dues reduction of around 10%.

DVLA Closures (Scotland)

Mike Penning Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

It is a pleasure to be working under your chairmanship this morning, Mr Williams, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran) on securing the debate. If I were in his position, I would be in his seat, and he would probably be in mine.

The changes that we are proposing and that were subject to consultation are not only about money. The service offered by the DVLA to the British public is quite different from any offered by most other agencies: apart from the collection of vehicle excise duty revenue that we do on behalf of Her Majesty’s Treasury, the service is paid for by the people who use it. The DVLA has to be self-sufficient in how it operates. At the moment, the types of service that we offer to the public in offices around the country could clearly be done more professionally, efficiently and helpfully, and at a cost that could help the taxpayer as well. The hon. Gentleman rightly referred to the 2.4 million people who use the offices each year, but that equates to less than 6% of DVLA transactions, although they take up almost 25% of DVLA staffing levels. I shall leave others to do the mathematics, but if we can operate more cost-effectively, that is what Governments should do.

Many services are offered at different offices around the country, and the hon. Gentleman rightly alluded to the profitable business of cherished or personalised number plates—whatever we want to call them—but the system is quite archaic. Someone has to prove the MOT for the vehicle from which the plate is being transferred, even though the transfer has been approved by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency: the vehicle has to be brought to the test centre and the process gone through. We want to speed that process up—we want more cherished number plates in Aberdeen. If there is money in Aberdeen to buy cherished number plates, the DVLA wants that money, because it helps to balance the books in the country. At the moment, there is a disincentive because the measures are complicated, which anyone who goes through the process will realise. We want to simplify it as much as possible.

Throughout Government, we want to use digital portals much more efficiently. Some 50% of all DVLA transactions now go through the digital portal, with people sitting at home or at their local library. That service continues to be rolled out across the country. On non-payment of VED, I am pleased that the latest figures are much better, and less than 1% is lost—in other words, people not paying are less than 1%. A lot of hard work has been done in the regional offices and the Swansea central office, but much of the success is to do with automatic number plate recognition. Modern ANPR cameras are ridiculously accurate—I hope people are listening to the debate—and, as we have rolled out ANPR through the police and through our camera technology, we have picked up more and more people. More individuals are being made aware that they are likely to be caught and prosecuted, which is why we have that level of less than 1% at the moment. There is no way in the world that I would be standing in the Chamber to condone any process likely to let that figure get worse. Most prosecutions are done through Swansea—I shall come on to the Scottish issues in a second, which are different, I accept, but we have taken them into consideration.

[Mr Doran]

A lot of the improvement in the capture of defaulters is because of the number of patrolling recognition vehicles, but my understanding, certainly in Scotland, is that they are being removed. Are they being removed throughout the country? What impact assessment has been made of the effect of that on defaults?

[Mike Penning]

There is a roll-out, not a roll-in, to use probably perverse language—more and more vehicles are going out. I will not tell the country where they are and where they will be, because I want to catch and prosecute people.

If any hon. colleagues have not been out on patrol with their local police with ANPR in the vehicle, I urge them to do so. They should contact their local constabulary and go out with them, because it will be an eye-opening experience for them. They can then explain to their constituents just how advanced the technology is. I sat in a police car on the side of an A road in Milton Keynes recently, but as the vehicles went past an alarm went off in the car if they did not have any insurance or MOT, and we knew who the vehicle was registered to. ANPR is very accurate. As we have rolled out continuous insurance—

[Mr Doran]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mike Penning]

I urge the hon. Gentleman to bear with me, because I want to make a little progress. I am conscious that, otherwise, Mr Williams will shut me up before I have had an opportunity to address the issues that he raised.

I fully accept that there is some concern in the motor industry, but it is split. I regularly meet the industry’s representative bodies, and I have met representatives of the motor trade in my constituency. What we are proposing will be more efficient. It will not be a case of putting documents in the post and losing blank tax discs. We will use a secure system, and speed will be subject to a contract. Delivery will be the following day, and it may sometimes be possible to offer same-day delivery.

Most of the complaints that I have heard from colleagues have come from people at local offices, who believe that they may lose their job. I fully understand their concerns, but the necessary efficiencies will mean that the risk to the motor trade of holding whole books of blank tax discs in their showrooms will be removed. At the moment, showrooms receive them in blocks, and are responsible for those blocks, which they may return if they do not use them. That is not efficient for them or for us, and we intend to roll out a more efficient way.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right in saying that the system in England and Wales is different from the system in Scotland. The system in Northern Ireland, as the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) knows, is completely archaic, and no electronic portals can be used because the database is not compatible with the database in Swansea, so we must do something about that. There may be an Adjournment debate on the subject, but I thought I should raise the matter. We must deliver a much better service for the Province of Northern Ireland. In Scotland, as the hon. Member for Aberdeen North rightly said, the procurator fiscal is the prosecutor, but we do not intend to have everyone sitting in Swansea and then taking lovely journeys to Shetland and the Western Isles.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

Hear, hear.

[Mike Penning]

The hon. Gentleman agrees that it is a lovely journey. I have been to Shetland and the Western Isles, and I agree, but it takes a while and requires an overnight stay.

We will work with the procurator fiscal. I am not a lawyer, but this place is full of lawyers, and we will ensure that case notes are available with the evidential base for prosecution. I want the number of prosecutions to rise, not fall. If anyone in Shetland and the Western Isles believes that they will not be prosecuted because of the cost analysis, they are wrong. We will be able to roll out prosecutions on a level playing field throughout the country. I fully accept that at the moment that is not the case. I apologise to those who live at the extremities of this great nation of ours, but we will ensure that whether people live in London or Shetland, they will be prosecuted if they break the law.

The consultation is genuine, as is any consultation I introduce. I remember standing here and speaking about a completely different consultation and saying that it was not a closed deal. Matters that were not in the consultation will arise. Some 400 colleagues and others have contributed to the consultation, which closes on 20 March. We will consider all submissions, whether or not they were detailed in the consultation.

The issue is categorically not just about saving money, although there will be savings. It is my responsibility, and the responsibility of the chief executive of the DVLA, to ensure that we provide a service to the public that is as cost-efficient and as accessible as possible. There is demand for a more digital service, and for it to be provided through the excellent post office network, which we have all defended in this Chamber over the years.

It is imperative that at the end of the consultation we ensure that all the issues are considered. If the plans go ahead, we will ensure that, wherever possible, staff will be transferred to other departments if that is what they want. If there are redundancies, we will ensure that we handle them correctly, and if retraining is required, it will be provided. Only the other day, I met a group of DVLA workers who were worried because they had never filled in a CV or applied for a job. Assistance will be given to everyone who applies for a new job in a Government agency or Department, or who are leaving DVLA. That is a moral responsibility, as well as a legal one.

We must ensure that the cost base is delivered correctly and that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart) said, we do not lose the benefit of the current level of non-payment, which is 1%. I cannot claim full responsibility for that, because I have been in the job for only 21 months, and the figures cover three years, so the previous Government must have been doing something right to achieve that figure. Some of that excellent work is done in local offices but—I hate to say this—most of it is being done through technology and at Swansea.

There will be more than 300 new jobs at Swansea. That does not equate with the 1,200 jobs at risk around the country, but some of those new jobs may be taken up by existing DVLA staff if they wish to relocate, although I fully understand that relocating from Aberdeen to Swansea would be extremely difficult. That is why we will offer redundancy packages if necessary.

My job is to ensure that we deliver the best possible service for the public, who are telling us that they want a more digital system. I accept that some businesses are saying one thing, and others are saying another, but as long as we can ensure that we deliver the service to the motor trade professionally and without much of the risk, I think they will be happy, and they have mostly indicated that they will be.

We want to sell many more cherished numbers, particularly in parts of Scotland where there are affluent people who want to use their disposable income in such a way. We must make it simpler for them to do so, and end the present bureaucratic and archaic system.

Government Car and Despatch Agency

Mike Penning Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

On 16 January 2012, I announced the significant operating cost reductions we have made in running the Government Car and Despatch Agency (GCDA) since May 2010. The previous Government had ministerial cars for most Ministers, costing £6.8 million in 09-10. We are now spending just £3.8 million or 55% percent of that, and the number of Ministers requiring cars has reduced by around half

Today, I am announcing our plans for the coming year in which we expect to deliver further operating cost savings of around one third. This is part of our ongoing commitment to driving efficiency and improving value for money and transparency for taxpayers. It will also allow us to start to reduce the overhead costs associated with the service.

To reflect the Government’s approach to providing vehicles for Ministers’ official travel while maintaining adequate levels of security, I am taking this opportunity to identify a better taxpayer value service, reduce the vehicle fleet and maximise driver and vehicle utilisation. This approach will enable us to reshape the agency and its estate to deliver a leaner and substantially smaller organisation.

We are working closely with Departments to deliver the main elements of this efficiency and reform programme which are:

the phased closure of the Government mail despatch service by the end of the year. I expect current users to make alternative, cost-effective arrangements with their existing service providers or to utilise existing Government frameworks to secure new services from the private sector;

a 50% reduction in the GCDA fleet with a new approach that gives greater control over management of the resource to Departments;

a review of estate options;

a review of the GCDA’s agency status and whether, in the light of the much smaller scale of the operation, that continues to offer the best value for money.

The GCDA is working with Departments to help manage the transition to new arrangements. Subject to those discussions, I expect the changes to the car service to be fully operational by April this year and the transition to new mail arrangements to be completed by the end of the year.

Printed Photo ID Market

Mike Penning Excerpts

Monday 27th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mike Penning)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Mole Valley (Sir Paul Beresford) on securing the debate. This has been an ongoing campaign for him and other colleagues, to the extent that there have been something like 56 letters from MPs, which have been responded to by Cabinet Ministers, particularly my right hon. Friends the Transport Secretary and the Business Secretary.

I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend and a delegation from the industry to discuss this matter, but that might be the only part of this debate in which he will smile at me, because I think we are going to disagree on some points. I apologise for that, but I have to do what I think is right. I am not going to get into a debate about the number of jobs that might be lost on the high street, which he discussed, but the figure seems to change with each letter on this issue. I am not deriding his mathematics, but the industry moves around on this point. As the Minister responsible to the public in relation to the DVLA, I have to look at several things, one of which is the cost to the public of something that they are required to have. The photo ID driving licence has been in place for many years—since 1998. We also need to look at the new technology that has come forward. One thing that my hon. Friend has not picked up on this evening is the issue of fraud with driving licences and passports, which I shall spend some time discussing.

Since 1998, image quality has become more and more important, particularly with digital technology. The police, the courts and the Driving Standards Agency, the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency and the DVLA in my Department have made it a priority to increase the quality of the photographs that are produced as evidence of someone’s ID when they want to procure, among other things, a driving licence with their photograph on it. As you may be aware, Mr Speaker, in recent years we have moved from black-and-white photographs to colour technology with driving licences, but technology continues to move forward. Digital photos are cheaper and much better in quality than they used to be and the secure management of such electronic technology becomes more and more important.

As my hon. Friend said, we have in recent years looked closely at how we can improve the quality of the photograph as part of the system of proving the identity of the person applying for the driving licence. Some 15% of this system is dealt with on the web, and it goes straight through to the DVLA on a regular basis, and that figure continues to increase. I shall come back to the significance of that figure in a moment.

In the past 18 months, the Post Office service—the contract is to be launched in March, as my hon. Friend said—has taken 35% of the market in photographs for driving licences. That leaves 50% still being done in the old-fashioned way, by capturing the photograph and the photograph then being used in, normally paper, documents.

Why are the Government doing this? As my hon. Friend rightly said, it comes down to cost. There are enormous savings for DVLA if the photograph can be captured and transported electronically on to the system immediately and in the most cost-efficient way. The DVLA is funded by people paying fees, and the fees charged for a driving licence or other DVLA service reflect our costs. Naturally, in these difficult economic times, we have been trying to drive down costs as far as possible. That is therefore a significant factor.

Another significant factor of which I was unaware until I took this job is fraud. Recently in the press I have stated my concern about fraud when foreign driving licences are exchanged for British driving licences, but when I went to the DVLA fraud unit in Swansea, on one of my first ministerial visits, I was amazed to discover the extent to which members of the public fraudulently try to obtain a British driving licence. I accept that a British driving licence is a valuable item, because it can be used as ID and for many different purposes. Even though it was not designed as a means of identification, it is often used as one—for example, a person needs a driving licence to hire a vehicle, because it is regarded as an entitlement to drive as well as proof of age and address.

There are frequent attempts—hundreds every day—by people to obtain a British driving licence using a fraudulent photograph. They employ a vast range of methods, of which cut and paste is only one. We pick up as many such attempts as possible—we cannot guarantee to get all of them—and one option for us is digital scanning. One of the great benefits we have seen in the past couple of months from having a direct link to web or being able to scan at a post office directly into the DVLA database is that very soon after the application has been made, particularly at night when we can use computer downtime, we can compare the scanned photograph with the millions of photographs kept on the database. We do that not because we suspect that everyone is attempting to obtain a driving licence fraudulently, but because we know that a large number of people apply using multiple names and addresses. We can do that with the new technology, whereas the older technology makes it very difficult.

Let me take this opportunity to say that we will pursue people who apply fraudulently for a driving licence through the courts, because making such an application is a criminal offence.

Even with the new technology, the market stands at 50:50. We have no intention of stopping people from choosing to use the traditional—I prefer to say old-fashioned—method. They can carry on doing that. Are we promoting the digital side of it? Yes, we are—of course we are—and that is why the contract is being issued. It is imperative that we are honest about that and that we ensure the public continue to have a choice wherever possible. There will be a market for both older technology and web facilities. All the evidence we have seen at DVLA, especially as we roll out the VED car tax arrangements, is that more is being done online and less in person.

My hon. Friend asked whether there will be a continuation of the older method. Yes. He asked whether I would consider delaying the bidding process in March. We have done a lot of work on that, and I do not intend to delay the March contract launch.

I was also asked whether it is open to others to bid. Yes, but only on a like-for-like basis, because this is an example of technology benefiting the public. My hon. Friend asked whether we could meet in the near future. He knows that my door is always open to him. If any Member wants to see me, it is always my honour and privilege to meet them.

The two-stage approach that has been highlighted—I nearly said “pushed”—by the high street photo industry would take away the two classic advantages that I have just described: those of cost and convenience. However, the most significant factor, which I have dealt with at some length tonight, is fraud. I desperately need to clamp down on fraud. It is one of the burdens that this nation suffers from in that people desperately want to get hold of a British driving licence or a British passport.

The technology is being rolled out across government, and it is important that that should happen. At the same time, however, we must endeavour to keep costs down so as not to impose a burden on the public purse. Similarly, we must be conscious of imposing a time burden. The post office process will now take about 3.5 minutes from the person standing in front of the camera to receiving their entitlement to proceed. I continue to say that we are keeping an open mind, and that there is a place for the traditional high street photo market. At the same time, however, the Government have to move on. We need to do our level best for the public in relation to costs, time and fraud. That is why we are going to push on with this project.

Question put and agreed to.