Armed Forces Recruitment: North-east England

Debate between Mike Martin and Jim Shannon

Wednesday 25th June 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Dr Allin-Khan. I thank the hon. Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor (Alan Strickland) for setting the scene. I was here for his first debate in Westminster Hall; I am now here for his second, and I am sure I will be here for many more to come.

It is a real pleasure to speak in this debate. Obviously, the title of the debate is armed forces recruitment in the north-east, but I want to speak about Armed Forces Day, as other hon. Members have, which we had last Saturday in Newtownards. I will also speak about the tradition of service in uniform in my family, including among my uncles, who fought in the second world war, and my cousins. When I was an eight-year-old boy—which, by the way, was not yesterday; I am long past that—I wanted to be a Royal Marine commando.

I never made it to a Royal Marine commando, though not because I did not try—go for the highest!—but the Minister for Veterans, the hon. Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns), did get that job. I always liked the look of him; he achieved that goal and we all have great fondness for him. I think of him climbing Mount Everest—wow, if you are not impressed by that, you should be.

[Mike Martin (Tunbridge Wells) (LD)]

As we all know, the tagline for the Royal Marine commandos was “99.9% need not apply”. When it comes to parliamentary spoken contributions, the hon. Member is in top 0.1%, so he has achieved that goal.

[Jim Shannon]

That comment is on the record.

I always wanted to be in the Army and I joined the Ulster Defence Regiment as an 18-year-old. There were different rules back in the ’70s—everyone will now be able to judge my age—and I served for three years as a part-time soldier in that regiment. It was clear that that was an anti-terrorism role; those were incredibly difficult times for all of us in Northern Ireland.

I later left the Ulster Defence Regiment and joined the Royal Artillery as a Territorial Army soldier, where I served for 11.5 years. Altogether, I served for 14.5 years, and they were some of the most exciting times of my life. I used to make a silly joke: people would ask me what I was in, and I would say, “The SAS”. Of course, their ears would perk up and they would say, “The SAS?” I would reply, “Yes, Saturdays and Sundays.” Those were the days when we did our training and our competitions, and made ourselves try to be soldiers in whatever role we were playing.

Last Saturday, as hon. Members have already said, we hosted Armed Forces Day for Northern Ireland in Newtownards in my constituency of Strangford. What a day that was: the sun was shining and the children were laughing, but most importantly the armed forces were honoured, with an estimated 60,000 people coming to Ards to enjoy the host of food stalls and armed forces stalls, as well as all the different charities and regiments that were able to be there. There was also the chance to see—as we all wanted to when we were small, and not because we are from Northern Ireland—the guns, the helicopters and the other things up close, as well as the dancing and the fun on the fields. Those things were all part of last Saturday.

The Falcons started off the aerial events, and I could hear the gasps and the comments from the watching public. Those guys were coming out of the sky, and people were pointing at them, but my eyesight is not what it was and I am afraid I could not even see them until they were almost there. We saw what they did, and how precise they were in landing exactly where they needed to on the airfield—if it were me, I would probably be in Strangford lough somewhere. We learned about the regiment and wondered at their skill. The drumhead ceremony was respectful, and the sounds of the crowd singing the national anthem will stay with me for a long time.

Of course, the highlight of the day for many were the incomparable Red Arrows, whose skill and showmanship reminded us all of the strength of the armed forces in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland—undoubtedly the best in the world. The beating of the retreat was the perfect end to the day, and I thank the Royal Irish Regiment bands for their world-class performances.

I am sure that the event has given many young people the desire and opportunity to see how they can join the best in the world, as hon. Members have referred to, in particular the hon. Member for Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor. We need to encourage more local authorities to highlight those opportunities in their area, including in the north-east and across the whole United Kingdom.

Northern Ireland has historically given a higher proportion of service than any other country in the UK, and that remains the case. In the latest recruitment year, Northern Ireland has again contributed a large number of individuals to the UK armed forces. That figure represents recruitment to the Royal Navy, the Royal Marines, the Royal Airforce and the British Army. Overall, UK armed forces saw a 19% increase in recruitment in the 12 months to 31 March 2025, with the Royal Navy and the Royal Marines experiencing the largest percentage increase. That is great news, but it is obvious that more needs to be done, which is why we are having this debate.

I apologise for not welcoming the Minister to his place. He is a good friend of the armed forces—I do not say that to give him a big head; I mean it. Whenever he faces issues that refer to Northern Ireland, he asks all the Northern Ireland MPs for their input. That shows his interest, and that he wants to hear what our constituents are telling us and feed that into the process. I very much look forward to his response; I do not think anybody in the Chamber will be disappointed by it.

There are things we should do. First, we could do more with the cadets. I understand there are issues for the cadets, and I am anxious about those; the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East and Wallsend (Mary Glindon) referred to the cadets in her constituency. I visited Ballykinler three months ago and met the cadets from County Down who had their weekend camp there, and I was greatly impressed.

I understand that the role of the cadets is not to make people want to join the forces—and I understand the reason for that; they are at a young age—but I am keen to get the Minister’s thoughts on how we can do better. When I talk to the officers and those who train the cadets, I say, “You’ve got a potential recruitment pool here. Can we do more?” I know that some of those cadets will go on to join the Army, particularly the Royal Irish Regiment or the RAF, but we could do more. I leave that question for the Minister.

Secondly, on Saturday, I also spoke to some people who hold ranks in my old regiment, the Royal Artillery, including the commanding officer. I asked him how recruitment was going with the TA, and he told me, “Jim, it’s not as good as it used to be.” I said, “Is it not? I thought we were recruiting well in Northern Ireland.” He said, “Yes, we’re recruiting above the quota in Northern Ireland compared with the rest of the United Kingdom, but here are some ideas.” I said, “Tell me what your ideas are.” He said, “We need to promote more of the skills that can be learned in the forces.” I understand that the Government, and the Royal Air Force, the Royal Navy and the Army, enable people to do skills courses that give them better opportunities for recruitment.

Thirdly, the commanding officer also said, “Employers need to be more flexible.” I said, “What do you mean by that?” He said, “Maybe with getting time off, for instance, at the weekend.” Is there a job to be done with employers to ensure that we do something better? Those are three positive ideas for the Minister—that is always how I do things—and if we can do them, I think we will encourage people.

There is no doubt that the 60,000 people who were at the Armed Forces Day in Newtownards last Saturday felt pride in the country, pride in the flag and pride in the uniform. Pride in the flag and uniform transcends both sides of the community, some of whom fought tooth and nail over 30 years of a terrorist campaign. Both sides of the community serve in uniform. For instance, the cadets in Northern Ireland come from both sides of the community, and percentage-wise it is equal. That tells me that the forces of today have appeal right across both the spectrum of political opinion, if that is what it is, and across the communities of Northern Ireland. There are good things happening, but there is much to do.

VAT Registration Threshold: SMEs

Debate between Mike Martin and Jim Shannon

Tuesday 24th June 2025 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a real pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Vickers. I thank the hon. Member for Mid Leicestershire (Mr Bedford) for setting the scene and giving us all an opportunity to engage with the Minister on this issue, as the hon. Member for Keighley and Ilkley (Robbie Moore) just did. The Minister is always a very pleasant gentleman—we all know that—and he always seems to be incredibly calm. I am not sure how he does it; maybe all the worries are somebody else’s worries—I do not know what they are. But I do wish him well with his answers to the questions that we pose today.

I read a very interesting article that outlined the pros and cons of raising the VAT threshold above the £90,000 that we are sitting at. What was most notable was the fact that these arguments were all made around an unalterable fact: we in Northern Ireland are hampered from truly having a full discussion by the Windsor framework, which does not allow Northern Ireland VAT to rise above the £90,000 threshold. Even if this debate today could make a change, and even if the Minister agreed with the change, it could not happen. Why? Because of the Windsor framework. I look to my right-hand side: maybe one of the Conservative Members there might have been in the previous Government who left us in Northern Ireland in that limbo land. They can answer for themselves—it is not for me to answer for them—but I do make the point that we were let down badly by the Conservatives in relation to this.

The reality is that, unless we can have regional VAT rates, the UK is prevented from acting in our best interests economically by the EU. It is a fact of life for us, unfortunately, nine years after the vote. I voted—and my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) beside me voted—to leave under the same terms as the rest of the United Kingdom; but the EU is still dictating our economic policy in Northern Ireland. That is the reason that the DUP has consistently stood against this European interference. Perhaps, now that some businesses in other Members’ constituencies are being affected, in different regions—

[Mike Martin (Tunbridge Wells) (LD)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, but does he not now regret his vote to leave, seeing as it created all of these problems for his constituents?

[Jim Shannon]

No. I thank the hon. Member—he is a friend—but look, honestly, I am a Brexiteer; it is no secret. I want the same Brexit as the rest of the United Kingdom got. I did not get that. We were let down by a Government who did us over, so we did not get what we wanted, but if I had got the same as everybody else in England, Scotland and Wales—and my hon. Friend had—then I would not be having this conversation, and I would not be doing this spiel. I am still a Brexiteer and always will be a Brexiteer, and incidentally, the majority of people in my constituency voted to have the same Brexit as the rest of the United Kingdom, and my constituents did not get it either. When the Minister thinks about today’s debate, if he does not mind me saying, I would ask that he would petition the Cabinet, if it is not too much to ask for, to withdraw from this inherently flawed agreement for us in Northern Ireland.

The article that I read discussed the benefit of raising the threshold, highlighting that Government should want to encourage small businesses to grow. It would be much more effective to raise the threshold to £250,000, I would have thought. It is probably a better figure to work with. That is, of course, supported by the Government’s own statistics, which showed that, in 2022-23, £117 billion —75% of the total net VAT collected in the UK—was paid by traders with an annual turnover of more than £10 million. So, what does that mean exactly? Raising the threshold to £250,000 may not, therefore, have a significant impact on VAT’s total receipts, but it would allow His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to save costs and to focus its time on ensuring that the largest VAT payers paid the right amount of tax.

The Government have a big, difficult task before them; they have got to balance the books—whatever the figure might be for the black hole, or whatever it may have been. They have set themselves that target to balance those books, and I understand that. Maybe there is another way of saving money, perhaps within HMRC, that could be better. The Minister is a very wise man; he will understand the point I am making, and the civil servants, who are the brains of the Department—I hope the Minister does not mind me saying that—will be able to respond, and maybe pass the message on about whether that can be done.

Raising the threshold would allow a large number of traders in my area, and others, to focus on growth and not question whether they could grow a business enough to cover the additional accountancy costs when VAT is involved. When most businesses register for VAT, they are faced with a choice: either increase their prices by up to 20% or lose 20% of their existing prices as VAT. That is a difficult scenario for a business. The former makes the business less competitive and likely to see a drop in sales, and the latter eats into the profits and ultimately reduces the amount of money the business can use to expand. Neither option advocates for small business growth. As I have said, this is a moot point, as the EU will not allow us in Northern Ireland even to consider raising the threshold. I cannot tell businesses in Strangford or across Northern Ireland that it could be an option.

Some argue that there are benefits to retaining the VAT thresholds. Research undertaken for HMRC in 2016 found that 20% of unregistered businesses that were trading close to the VAT threshold had taken action to remain below it. Of those businesses, almost half said they had closed their businesses for part of the year to avoid having to register for VAT. One in five said they had turned down work, which was an indication that they could not grow as they wanted to because of the restriction. That strongly suggests that a significant number of businesses actively manage their turnover in order to stay below the VAT registration threshold. Lowering the threshold would prevent businesses from suppressing their trade in that way, which would in turn encourage economic growth.

Frozen Russian Assets: Ukraine

Debate between Mike Martin and Jim Shannon

Monday 6th January 2025 Commons Chamber

[Mike Martin]

I agree. This is a war crime of stupendous scale, breadth and width. There is a question of not only justice, but getting those children back to their families in Ukraine. That is part of the work that we all must do once the war is over, with Russia defeated and Ukraine victorious.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing the debate forward; I was happy to be a signatory to the request for it to the Backbench Business Committee. Does he agree that the ongoing humanitarian crisis in Ukraine since the start of the war has escalated, with thousands injured and killed, millions fleeing for better lives elsewhere—some 300 such families are working and living in my constituency of Strangford—shortages of medical supplies, hospitals overwhelmed, and an energy and food crisis? The thrust of the debate is that freezing Russian assets does not work; they have to be seized.