6 Mike Crockart debates involving HM Treasury

Oral Answers to Questions

Mike Crockart Excerpts
Tuesday 10th March 2015

(9 years, 6 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Danny Alexander Portrait Danny Alexander
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Yes, we have. The hon. Gentleman is right. The Smith commission—rightly, I believe—devolves power over rates and bands in the income tax system. It does not devolve control of the tax base or the personal allowance. One of the bits of work that remains to be done is to ensure that we have a fiscal framework in place around that which means that the fact of devolution does not offer a financial advantage in and of itself either to Scotland or to the rest of the United Kingdom. I have had constructive discussions with John Swinney on that point and on many others. It is, of course, a matter for the Scottish Government to make sure that they have competent administrative machinery in place, which they will need next month when the process of the first wave of income tax devolution starts.

Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)
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Is my right hon. Friend, like me, waiting with bated breath for the latest Government Expenditure and Revenue Scotland figures to be published? Does he expect that they will bolster or demolish the Scottish National party’s case for full fiscal autonomy?

Danny Alexander Portrait Danny Alexander
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Bated breath might be overstating it, but I expect the new GERS figures very soon. In recent days we have seen evidence of the damage that the Scottish National party’s ideas would do to the UK economy—higher debt for the whole of the UK at the end of this Parliament than at the beginning of it, and an extra £5 billion a year being spent on interest payments. Having been defeated on its proposals for independence, which would have undermined and damaged the Scottish economy, the SNP seems inclined to offer the same damage to the UK economy as a whole.

Payday Loan Companies

Mike Crockart Excerpts
Monday 20th January 2014

(10 years, 8 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Nadhim Zahawi Portrait Nadhim Zahawi
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The hon. Lady makes a very powerful point. I have seen evidence of conversations between a young lady and a loan shark in a coffee shop where she was having to agree to lie to her husband to try to get some more money, otherwise her limbs would be damaged.

The question is how we regulate the sector. As with any financial market, we need a system of clear rules backed up by tough enforcement. A good regulator needs to have blood on its sword, and I hope that the FCA will use its enforcement powers to drive the most egregious players out of the market. I am on record as calling the behaviour of some of these companies rapacious.

Unlike the Office of Fair Trading, the FCA will have the power to cap the total cost of credit, which is welcome news, but I want to see the FCA go further than the terms of its consultation in two areas. First, it should mandate the use of real-time data sharing as a condition of being able to trade in this market. The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin) made that point eloquently. It is vital that we make it harder for consumers to take out multiple loans from different companies. Such borrowing can quickly spiral out of control, trapping people in huge debt. As we know from macro-economic policy, we cannot borrow our way out of a debt crisis.

Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)
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Does my hon. Friend agree that, although real-time information is essential, it would be good if the companies checked any information at all? When I conducted some research, I made an application for a loan under the name Boris Peep, using my constituency address as the address for the individual. The loan was approved by WageDayAdvance. I then received—

Baroness Primarolo Portrait Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)
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Order. This is not a 40-minute speech.

Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart
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I then received numerous texts saying, “Hi Boris, your loan application has been approved.” That surely shows that no real-time information was used at all.

Nadhim Zahawi Portrait Nadhim Zahawi
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My hon. Friend raises an important point. It just shows how farcical the system is when Bo Beep can lose her sheep, but get a loan from a payday lender.

Secondly, I want to see the FCA introduce a roll-over limit of one. Failure to meet a loan repayment should be a clear signal that the borrower is in financial trouble. The answer is not then for the lender to refinance the debt. The purpose of payday loans is to tide the borrower over until payday; they should not be allowed to become long-term financing instruments. Two roll-overs equate to three months, which is far too long. Getting the regulation right is important, but if we do more to support the incomes of the lowest paid, this market will lose much of its raison d'être.

I warmly welcome my right hon. Friend the Chancellor’s support for an inflation-busting rise in the minimum wage. Such a rise would put more money in the pockets of millions of hard-working people, reducing reliance on high cost credit. Of course, the most direct impact Government can have on our income is to take less of it in tax. That is why the increase in the personal allowance, which has a disproportionate impact on the low paid, is so important. Someone working a 40-hour week on the minimum wage is now paying half the income tax they paid under the previous Government.

In the longer term, we need to get more people into work and improve workplace productivity, so that higher wages can be paid for out of higher profits. The Government’s reforms to schools and welfare will help us get there. I believe in markets, but all markets need strong frameworks to ensure that the consumer can make free and informed choices—free from coercion and informed about the risks. Nowhere is that need more clear than in the market for high-cost consumer debt.

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Paul Blomfield Portrait Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)
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On this occasion, it is a pleasure to be called at the end of the debate, Mr Speaker, because it provides me with an opportunity to reflect on the contributions, where two things have stood out. The first is the deep concern on the issue and the positive points that have been made about the Financial Conduct Authority and its proposals. The second is the unanimity across the House that the FCA is moving in the right direction, but not going far enough. After it launched its proposals in October, Members from every party represented in this House came together to launch the “Charter to Stop the Payday Loan Rip-off”, not only outlining a holistic intervention on how we could regulate the sector, but critiquing the FCA proposals. That has subsequently been backed by civil organisations ranging from Unite to the Women’s Institute, and by councils of all political persuasions, as the hon. Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) pointed out. It is also supported by every major debt advice and consumer organisation.

Many Members have cited shocking statistics and research to back the case for further action, but I thought I would share the case of one Sheffield woman and ask how she would be helped by the FCA proposals. She has asked to be kept anonymous so let us call her Susan, and her case is all too typical. She was struggling to keep up with bills and to make ends meet, she took out a payday loan to help tide her over but still found that she was short at the end of the month. By rolling over the initial loan and taking out new ones to pay off that debt, she found herself in a spiral of increasing debt, with three payday loans, costly default fees and mounting interest.

My first question is: would the FCA proposals on advertising have protected Susan? She took out that payday loan because of the advertising she had seen. Too often, such advertising makes borrowing look easy and stress free. The hon. Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) made the point that the FCA is focusing on tackling misleading advertising, but we should be focusing on tackling irresponsible advertising. We have all seen “Wonga: the movie”, which illustrates the problem of advertising that makes loans seem aspirational and life-improving, whereas payday loans are in fact the worst form of credit anybody could take out. So Susan would have been failed by the proposals on advertising.

My second question is: what about roll-overs? Once Susan had taken out her first payday loan, why was she encouraged to keep rolling it over? How could she have taken out two further payday loans when she was clearly having difficulty repaying the first one? The FCA’s proposal to limit the number of roll-overs to two is a step in the right direction, but the Select Committee is right to say that there should be a limit of one. Is the need to roll over more than once not a sign that the borrower is in trouble?

Similarly, we must look at repackaging loans and the problem of multiple loans. On the issue of multiple loans that pushed Susan into the spiral of debt, I recall that in a debate on 11 December on the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Act 2013, there was great agreement across the House on the need for real-time data to prevent irresponsible lending. As my hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield (Yvonne Fovargue) pointed out, Callcredit, with great support from Wonga and the Consumer Finance Association, announced the establishment of some data sharing. However, that scheme will not stop irresponsible multiple lending.

Let us consider these questions. Are all lenders signed up to this data sharing? If not, and Susan went to one that was not, they would not know that she was struggling to pay back her initial loan. Will the scheme identify lenders who are breaching FCA rules by, for example, rolling over loans too many times, and report them to the FCA? If not, Susan’s loans could be rolled over, just as now, with the FCA left to play catch-up once it has received its six-monthly data report from lenders. Will it establish a benchmark of affordability and assess whether that is being met by lenders? If it is not, will it report those lenders to the FCA? If it does not do that, Susan will still be trapped by unaffordable loans. The answer to each of those questions is no, so we still need the FCA to establish a database, require all lenders to use it, and use the data to enforce its rules. The case for that database is as strong now as it ever was, and I hope that the Minister and the FCA will pay heed to it.

There is also the issue of the continuous payment authorities. I welcome the fact that the FCA is suggesting that CPA administration be limited to two unsuccessful attempts, but it does not go far enough. It still provides lenders with the opportunity for a strategic intervention into somebody’s account to drain them of all their resources at a critical point in the month when they need that money for rent and other vital payments.

The code of practice that the sector has established, to which my hon. Friend the Member for Makerfield referred, suggests that lenders should provide three days’ notice of using a CPA, and yet, assessment of the sector by Citizens Advice suggested that 60% were not complying with their own good practice. The three days’ notice should be accompanied by a reminder of the right to cancel, which has been deliberately obscured in the case of many people who have got into difficulties with CPAs. I agree with the hon. Member for Worcester (Mr Walker)—I will be supporting him tomorrow morning—that we should use the opportunity of the new levy on payday lenders to increase the overall resource that is available to support free and independent debt advice, which has grown in response to the growth of the payday lending sector.

Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart
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The hon. Gentleman has talked about being able to cancel the CPAs. He said that only 23% of lenders were explaining the situation, but the figure for those lenders explaining the ability to cancel is even worse, standing at only 5%. Does he agree that that is absolutely abysmal?

Paul Blomfield Portrait Paul Blomfield
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I agree with the hon. Gentleman. The level at which the good practice surrounding the administration of CPAs has been obscured by lenders has caused enormous difficulties for many people. It underlines why we need a clear regulatory framework for the use of CPAs, in which any lender participating in the sector must comply.

My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin) was right when she said that, although the FCA is moving in the right direction, it is currently behind the curve. I hope that it listens to the debate tonight, gets itself ahead of the curve and listens to the voice of Parliament.

Air Passenger Duty

Mike Crockart Excerpts
Thursday 1st November 2012

(11 years, 10 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)
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I add my congratulations to the Members who secured this debate, not least because the motion is supported by a large number of Members across the whole House. I should declare a particular interest, as Edinburgh airport—voted best European airport 2011 in the 5 million to 10 million- passenger category—lies within my constituency. As a result, I recently took part in the all-party aviation group’s inquiry, which was mentioned by the hon. Member for Central Ayrshire (Mr Donohoe). Its report made 15 recommendations, four of which related directly to air passenger duty and mirror the tone of the motion.

When APD was introduced in 1994, I do not think that anyone foresaw the likely levels that it would reach 18 years later. The problem is that in those intervening years insufficient notice has been taken of whether those levels were reaching what Gordon Dewar, the chief executive of Edinburgh airport, has described as a tipping point at which they have a detrimental impact on the economy as a whole.

As the hon. Members for Crawley (Henry Smith) and for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer) said, it is sometimes argued that APD is an environmental tax. Perhaps before the inclusion of the aviation sector in the EU emissions trading scheme, that was a valid argument, but it is far more difficult to make it now. If the tax were levied on a per-plane basis to encourage higher occupancy, or if its levels reflected the fuel efficiency of the planes involved to encourage airlines to upgrade their stock, then perhaps that argument could be made again, but as it stands APD is simply a revenue raiser—and an attractive one to the Treasury, at that, because it is easy to administer, has low collection costs, and to a large extent it is hidden from the end consumer. Nevertheless, the Treasury must examine it to ensure that its overall impact on the UK’s tax take is positive, not negative, as seems to be the case.

Angus Brendan MacNeil Portrait Mr MacNeil
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Would the hon. Gentleman support the devolution of air passenger duty to Scotland, as some Labour Members seem to do?

Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart
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I almost thank the hon. Gentleman for his question, but it is a bit of a broken record and tangential to this debate. Devolution of this tax would merely recreate the problem that existed between Belfast and Dublin; my constituents would get in their cars and drive for two hours to use Newcastle instead. We have already heard the argument about regionalisation of APD, which is a far better and more efficient way of dealing with the problem.

Levels of increase in APD over the past five years stand at between 160%, for the bottom rate, and up to 360% for band D long-haul flights. Many submissions to the APPG’s inquiry, and others made since, including one that I received yesterday from the Federation of Small Businesses, make the case that levels of APD are now putting the UK at a competitive disadvantage in relation to other European and global destinations. The evidence is that that shows itself in a number of ways.

First, APD acts as a disincentive to foreign carriers using UK airports as destinations. A number of hon. Members have mentioned the report by the Scottish airports on their perceptions of the effects of APD. It shows that Scotland’s connectivity grew from servicing fewer than 40 destinations in 2001 to almost 150 in 2009, but the figure has slipped back in recent years to about 130. That hampers not only establishing new business markets, but bringing in new tourists to Scotland. The figure also compares poorly with other small European states. Of course, some of those states have major hubs, but Belgium has links to 220 international cities and Denmark has more than 150 such links.

If APD levels hold back local airports and their connectivity, they will also hold back the surrounding local economies. The Edinburgh airport campus employs 5,000 people and its activities support a further 2,000 across Scotland. It estimates that its contribution to the Scottish economy is £146 million, of which £118 million entered the Edinburgh city regional economy. The question must be: could it do more, if allowed?

One of the key debates on the impact of APD is about price elasticity, a phrase that takes me back to 1984, when I was studying economics at Edinburgh university. Different products have different elasticities—the rate at which demand is lessened by an increase in price. On the impact of APD rises, the report prepared by the three Scottish airports estimates that, accumulatively, by 2016 Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen will carry 2.1 million fewer passengers each year than if APD had not risen since 2007. Price elasticity is lower in Aberdeen, so the impact would be less, but it might still lose 200,000 passengers. Edinburgh’s higher number of low-cost carriers will result in a far higher potential impact—it might lose 1 million passengers per year.

Those are not just numbers; they are business men making connections and sales, and tourists spending money. The 2009 Civil Aviation Authority’s passenger survey suggests that about 36% of international passengers are visitors to Scotland and that 40% of domestic passengers are similarly inbound to Scotland. If we combine the drop in actual and projected numbers with the CAA figures and apply VisitScotland’s average tourist spend, we will see that the results are very worrying.

The 2007 drop in passenger numbers appears to have amounted to a £90 million per annum loss with regard to Scottish tourism. Following the 2009 APD rise, that figure has risen to £160 million and, if projections are correct, it will rise to £210 million per annum by 2016. This simply cannot continue.

Much of what I have said has come from the industry and some might say, “Well, they would say that, wouldn’t they?”, so I did a small internet survey last night via booking sites. I imagined myself as a business man trying to establish trade with some of the BRIC countries and looked at flying direct to Sao Paulo. A flight on 14 November from Heathrow would cost me a best direct price of £768, the APD for which is about £184. However, a direct flight from Paris, where the APD equivalent is €4, would cost £642—a saving of £126, which is more than enough to cover a Eurostar ticket. If I chose to start a business with Chennai, I could fly there with Gulf Air for £475, but the cost of a flight from Paris would be £240, which is almost half the price.

If I was a tourist heading to Las Vegas—this is the worst example—I could get the 11.20 Virgin Atlantic flight for £644, but if I travelled to Dublin for £17 I could get the exact same flight from there for £453. That is a saving of £191, for which, once I arrived in Las Vegas, would buy me the “hound dog” package, whereby Elvis would sing three songs to me and I could get a rose bouquet and be walked down the aisle. That would be an interesting use of £191. I think we can do better. When the taxation system causes such anomalies, it is not only Elvis who has left the building; common sense has left as well.

Royal Bank of Scotland (FSA Report)

Mike Crockart Excerpts
Monday 12th December 2011

(12 years, 9 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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The right hon. Gentleman makes some important points, and clearly a number of institutions involved with RBS and the regulatory system more widely should bear responsibility for what happened, but let us be absolutely clear that the principal responsibility for the failure of RBS lies with its management.

Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)
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I should, first, declare that the global headquarters of RBS is in Gogarburn in my constituency. Today’s report apportions blame for the RBS demise on previous RBS management, insufficient challenge by the FSA and Labour’s light-touch, lip-service regulations; this Government are now dealing with those. Will the Minister join me in recognising that one group not blamed was the tens of thousands of ordinary employees of the bank, who have continued to work in an exemplary way, despite more than 27,000 redundancies and a slump in the bank’s fortunes and share price, which was previously a major element of their benefits package? Does he agree that today’s report is no reflection on them?

Mark Hoban Portrait Mr Hoban
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My hon. Friend makes an important point. Responsibility clearly rests with the leadership of RBS, not with those working in the bank’s branches, those working at its insurance company and others, who did their job properly and to the highest standards. It is important to recognise that, having identified regulatory issues to address, his party and my party came together in a coalition Government committed to regulatory reform. The Labour party was wedded to the status quo and to the regulatory regime that allowed this to happen unchecked. That party should take its full responsibility, just as we should recognise the excellent work that people at RBS did.

Scotland Bill

Mike Crockart Excerpts
Tuesday 21st June 2011

(13 years, 3 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Alan Reid Portrait Mr Reid
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The Scottish Parliament already has more than a putter, and the Bill will give it a lot more clubs in its bag.

I support the Government’s new clauses. I listened to the hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie), who appears to have left us, and I conclude that he has not made a case for his amendments. I want to compare the SNP’s approach to that of the other parties in Scotland. The other parties all worked together within the Calman commission and, through deliberation and working towards consensus, came up with a package of measures to give more powers to the Scottish Parliament. The Government are implementing those measures through the Bill. The SNP, however, refused to take part in that process. It has come along tonight with amendments that have no back-up papers, and it cannot make a case to back them up.

When I questioned the hon. Member for Dundee East, I understood his case to be that if corporation tax is cut, more revenue will come in. As I pointed out in my intervention, however, assuming his case to be correct, if one part of the UK were to cut corporation tax, the other parts would be forced to follow suit and there would simply be a race to the bottom, in which businesses would not be paying their fair share of taxes. That would mean either personal taxes going up or services being cut.

Equally, the hon. Member for Dundee East did not convince me on alcohol duties. All the practical problems were put to him and he was not able to answer them. I understand that he thinks the Scottish Government should increase alcohol duties, but if such duties were lower in England, people who lived near the border would simply travel across it to buy alcohol. No doubt when they were in the supermarkets there, they would buy other things as well, which would be a loss to the Scottish economy.

Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)
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My hon. Friend makes a fine case, but it is not just the people living close to the border who would do that. A large black market would undoubtedly be created in exactly this type of goods and it would grow across Scotland and contribute to the difficulties that we have already mentioned about the country’s dependence on alcohol.

Alan Reid Portrait Mr Reid
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My hon. Friend is correct. There would be an incentive for a white van man to drive south, fill up his white van, come up to Scotland and sell the alcohol at a profit. When I intervened on the hon. Member for Dundee East, we heard a sedentary intervention from the hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) to the effect that Argyll was not close to the border. However, I would point out to him that for a whole variety of reasons people from Argyll regularly visit England and, if they could buy alcohol cheaper there, there would be an incentive for them to fill up their car with it. That would mean a further loss of income to the Scottish economy.

Economic Affairs and Work and Pensions

Mike Crockart Excerpts
Tuesday 8th June 2010

(14 years, 3 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Mike Crockart Portrait Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD)
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Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for giving me the opportunity to make my maiden speech. I want to pay tribute to the hon. Member for Wycombe (Steve Baker) for his considerable knowledge of the banking industry. I cannot wait to hear more about that in future debates. It is slightly difficult for me to follow the hon. Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray)—we are starting to become slightly Edinburgh-centric, with the hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) hopefully still to make a contribution this evening—because I can no longer mention the Edinburgh Evening News. The journalist mentioned by the hon. Member for Edinburgh South wrote the same paragraph for me.

My predecessor, John Barrett, is taking a well-deserved rest after more than quarter of a century of public service, having represented the many people of Edinburgh West on community councils, city councils and, latterly, as its MP for nine years. He was a local business man and entrepreneur. In that spirit, he sold this job to me as being the best in the world. It has certainly been the most exciting in the first four weeks—even more exciting than my first few weeks as a green probationer in Lothian and Borders police.

In his time, John met many interesting people, including the Queen and Dolly Parton. I will let the House into a secret—it was the photograph of Dolly Parton that hung on the wall in the office. The seat has a well-established Liberal history, and I join a select but growing group, including my hon. Friends the Members for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) and for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso) by being a third—or perhaps even more—generation Liberal MP. We are joined, too, by my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Stephen Gilbert). That Lib Dem legacy is established through the quality of service given to our constituents, in my case in Edinburgh West, and an absolute commitment to them.

I have deliberately chosen this debate on economic affairs in which to make my first contribution. My constituency is immensely diverse, taking in areas of great affluence as well as areas of great poverty. Historic villages such as Corstorphine, Davidsons Mains and Cramond are now subsumed in the Edinburgh sprawl, as well as modern housing estates such as Muirhouse. Residential Barnton as well as rural Ratho and Kirkliston. The constituency is a key player in the powerhouse that is the Edinburgh economy, boasting within its boundaries some of Scotland’s most iconic and important brands and businesses, which have brought prosperity to Edinburgh and, indeed, to Scotland. Some of them, however, have been at the centre of the catastrophic events of the past two years and that has resulted in many thousands of people losing their jobs in Scotland.

There are many, many community groups in Edinburgh West, from those conducting community litter picks in South Queensferry or on Cramond beach to those fighting to protect the integrity and boundaries of Corstorphine hill. The Carrickvale community centre provides services to older and young constituents, and the Gylemuir Community Association does a similar job. Thousands of people are actively improving their communities all over Edinburgh West.

I am in the middle of the summer gala season—for the benefit of the English in the Chamber, I should explain that is a fête. On Saturday, along with thousands of others, accompanied, surprisingly for Scotland, by the sun, I attend the Corstophine fair—the largest community-run event in Edinburgh, and perhaps in Scotland. In it was a programme bursting with entertainment, kids’ activities and community displays, as well as the usual stalls to give people a chance to meet those behind the many community groups across the constituency. At the end of that, I officiated at the tug-of-war event, where two teams battled it out for victory. There was much name calling, shouting and huge efforts in blood, sweat and ultimately tears before both teams claimed a moral victory, at the very least. It reminded me a great deal of the past four weeks on this side of the House.

Edinburgh West is also a centre for many varied Scottish, British and internationally renowned companies. I have already found that across the business sector too, there is unity and solidarity in the adversity that we face, and I am immensely lucky that in these difficult times, Edinburgh West has a shared aim and a sense of team spirit. So as we rightly place more emphasis on industries such as biotechnology and the engineering of exciting new marine energy solutions, we should not forget two other priority industry sectors in Scotland, which have contributed significantly to the success of the Scottish and UK economies in the past decade. I refer to tourism and the financial services, two sectors in which my constituency has flourished.

Edinburgh airport, the gateway from mainland Europe not only for Edinburgh but for Scotland more generally, has 320 flights a day and 20,000 passengers, and those numbers are climbing. It is opening up new routes all the time—for example, to Marrakesh and many others announced in February. This is to be commended, as the more direct routes we have, the less wasteful travel we have through the London hubs of Heathrow and Gatwick. Add to this the potential for a much-needed high speed rail link with London, and we will see a continuing healthy picture for Scottish tourism and business, boosted by the year-round reputation of Edinburgh as a festival city.

I must not forget Edinburgh zoo when talking about tourism. In his maiden speech my predecessor joked about representing more penguins than any other Member in the House, and I am proud to say that that is still the case, but I can now add to that list of animals and say that I am the only MP in the UK to represent koalas. Should present plans come to fruition, I hope to be standing here in five years’ time as the only person representing pandas.

The financial services sector is a major sector in Edinburgh West, employing many people, but I shall move on as time is defeating me. Understandably, many of those working in the financial services sector and banking in particular fear the banking reform that must surely come. They should be reassured that the aim of that reform is to make their jobs more secure, not less. I will work closely with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills to ensure that that happens.

I conclude by quoting my Conservative opponent during the recent contest, who said—