BBC (Proposed Cuts)

Martin Vickers Excerpts

Thursday 1st December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell). Clearly Radio Humberside is going to get a few plugs this afternoon.

It is tempting on such an occasion to attack and compliment the BBC in equal measure. I am very happy to say that I would pay my licence fee for Radio 4, and if I happened to get the Radio 5 Live football commentaries, “Newsnight” and “Match of the Day” thrown in I would be a satisfied customer. In reality, however, we are here this afternoon to convey to the BBC, through the Secretary of State, the concerns of our constituents.

It is clear that our constituents greatly value local radio. In the case of mine, that means Radio Humberside. Unless someone is local to the area, it is difficult for them to appreciate the antipathy to the word “Humberside”. Indeed, one of my illustrious predecessors, Michael Brown, pledged to expunge it from the English language. Alas, it lives on, although it is now sometimes referred to as “the Humber”. However, Radio Humberside has gone a considerable way towards overcoming the in-built suspicion of anything containing the word “Humberside”. Nowadays, we are at least referred to as “northern Lincolnshire”.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that despite the issue of the word “Humberside”, there is a lot of affection for Radio Humberside among people in Scunthorpe, Grimsby and on the south bank of the Humber, particularly for its support for and reporting on local people’s activities, whether they be football, arts or other things?

[Martin Vickers]

I certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman, and the word “affection” appears somewhere in my notes in relation to Radio Humberside. I suspect, though, that most of my constituents on the south bank of the Humber are more interested in what goes on in Louth and Lincoln than in Cottingham and Kirk Ella. I therefore remain convinced that some savings could be made through joint working with Radio Lincolnshire. Residents in places such as Keelby and Caistor, which are really suburbs of Grimsby and Cleethorpes, feel much more part of what we might call the Humberside community than of the more rural Lincolnshire community. I acknowledge that the success of Radio Humberside is partly because people grow fond of—even affectionate towards—some of the presenters, such as Peter Levy with his lunchtime phone-in.

[Daniel Kawczynski]

Does my hon. Friend agree that local presenters are very much admired and revered by the local community and hold local politicians to account in debates? May I put in a plug for Eric Smith, my favourite presenter on Radio Shropshire, who is also appearing in “Aladdin” at Shrewsbury’s Theatre Severn, playing the emperor of China? I very much hope that people will go and see him over the Christmas holidays.

[Martin Vickers]

I hope that plug serves my hon. Friend well in his future dealings with his local radio station, just as I hope that Peter Levy will view my next appearance on his programme favourably after my mention of him.

With the decline of many local newspapers, although thankfully not the Grimsby Telegraph, local news on BBC stations will become more important, although it is easy for them to overdo the contribution that they make to local politics. I can speak only for the Humberside and Lincolnshire area, but many years ago there was a Radio Humberside reporter at local council meetings as a matter of course. Indeed, when I was first elected to Great Grimsby borough council in 1980, there was a reporter who not only attended meetings of the full council but had the unpleasant task of even being at every committee meeting. I often used to sympathise with him as he sat through far more meetings than even the councillors were forced to.

[Hugh Bayley]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to stress the local links that local radio has with the community and the identification of listeners with their local radio station. During the catastrophic floods in York 11 years ago, I was tasked by the police silver command one Friday night, when we ran out of sandbags, with trying to find some people to come in overnight and sew additional ones. I put out public appeals on BBC Radio York, Radio Humberside and Radio Lincolnshire. Two hours later, a factory manager in Lincolnshire said that he had been called up by workers who had gone to the factory having heard the programme, so that they could open it up and sew. Within 24 hours there were 1 million sandbags. Is there not a risk that such local community service by radio—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. We have now had an advert and an intervention that is really a speech. Interventions are supposed to be brief and relevant to the point that the speaker who has the floor is making. I would be grateful if we could stick to that.

[Martin Vickers]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I entirely agree with the point the hon. Gentleman makes on floods and the like. We have had our share of floods in the Cleethorpes area—most recently four years ago. Local radio comes into its own on such occasions.

To go back to the coverage of local politics, it is completely unrealistic to expect local council meetings to be covered individually by reporters. Indeed, in some areas, there are far too many local councils to be covered by local stations, which is another argument in favour of single-tier local government—that is an argument for another day.

I support the Government’s approach to the licence fee. Any organisation as large as the BBC can and should make savings. The licence fee is a significant burden—

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

rose—

[Martin Vickers]

I think I am running out of time, so if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I will carry on.

The licence fee is a significant burden to those on low and fixed incomes. I acknowledge that although various schemes help some categories of my constituents, the licence fee falls disproportionately on the elderly and the housebound, who quite naturally rely to a much greater extent on their radios for company and entertainment.

The licence fee must be contained. I do not subscribe to the more radical proposals for the BBC that are supported by some of my hon. Friends—I would regard myself as a critical friend of the BBC. As the hon. Member for Great Grimsby pointed out, in many ways, the BBC sets a benchmark for quality and is an institution of which we should be justly proud, but it must recognise that it is funded by what is in effect a compulsory tax, and the anger the general public feel about some of the salaries and fees paid to executives and presenters. Why do more than 100 members of staff earn more than the Prime Minister? I remain unconvinced of the merits of that situation, although I am sure they are capable individuals.

The director-general carries a heavy responsibility, but he and his colleagues must recognise that my constituents, many of whom do not earn as much in their working lives as his annual salary, contribute to that. My constituents remain amazed that £15,000 per episode of “Question Time” represents a reduction in the presenter’s salary—£15,000 is not far short of the average wage for my constituents. I am a passionate supporter of the free market and recognise that the BBC operates in a competitive environment, but it must, like all publicly funded organisations, recognise the circumstances in which the country finds itself.

The motion asks for local radio and regional TV programmes to be safeguarded, but not completely insulated from savings, which to a limited extent can always be found. I put “local” ahead of “regional”. I find the suggestion of a “Radio England” completely unacceptable. Regional radio used to exist. I recall that when I bought my first Marconiphone transistor radio, I could tune into Midlands, North, London and the like as well as exotic stations such as Hilversum, Athlone and Luxembourg. However, regional radio never really had any buy-in from its audience—people did not tune into 434 medium wave for the northern news; they tuned in because that was the best reception in the area.

I enjoy some programmes on BBC 4 television, but I remain unconvinced that its new programming could not or should not be aired on BBC 2—indeed, it would have been before the latter station was dumbed down. That is not a throwaway remark. I clambered into my loft last weekend and dug out some editions of the Radio Times from the 1960s and ’70s—do not ask me why I had them. When I flicked through those pages, I appreciated how much rubbish is broadcast these days in comparison with years gone by. I am told that BBC 4 is cheap television. I can understand that—it does not cost a great deal to re-broadcast a 1976 episode of “Top of the Pops”. I would prefer one from 1966, but that yet again shows my age.

Radio Humberside and local radio generally is greatly supported by our constituents up and down the country. It is that above all else that the BBC should concentrate on safeguarding as it looks for savings in other areas. I hope all hon. Members support the motion.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Blomfield]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman’s point about regional identity; in fact, I was coming to that. My point about the spiral of decline is that, if evening programmes became national—“Radio England”—they would, by any definition, cease to be local, and the reason for listening to them would disappear. If afternoon programming becomes regional, the same will happen. In Sheffield, we are rightly proud of being part of Yorkshire, which is an important part of our identity. However, although Yorkshire is our region, it is not our community. Yet that point—precisely the point that the hon. Gentleman makes—is not understood by the BBC management in London.

Let me illustrate that by reference to the plans for shared sports coverage. Sport is very popular with the Radio Sheffield audience, and I have no doubt that the same is true around the country. Nobody else provides that service, and on a Saturday afternoon the station is the most popular station on the dial in south Yorkshire. One in four radio listeners are tuned in to Radio Sheffield. However, under the BBC plans, when Sheffield United play at Elland Road—as we will next year when we are promoted: I have to declare another interest at this point—the commentary will be provided by Radio Leeds. I recently pointed out to the director-general of the BBC—at the meeting to which the right hon. Member for Bath referred—that Sheffield United fans would rather switch off than listen to a Leeds-based commentary. He recognised that that was a problem and said that the BBC needed to provide more neutral football commentary—completely missing the point. As a Sheffield United fan, I listen to Radio Sheffield’s away commentary precisely because it is not neutral—because it is partisan and because Keith Edwards knows the club inside out and cares about it, just as I do.

[Martin Vickers]

As a blades supporter, I can understand what the hon. Gentleman is saying. Does he agree, however, that it is even more important for teams in the lower leagues—such as Grimsby Town, which is temporarily residing in the Blue Square premier league—and other local sports clubs to be covered by local radio? Without it, our 7-nil victory on Tuesday evening would not have been widely reported.

[Paul Blomfield]

That is an incredibly important point. I worry that, when the away coverage comes from London, as under the BBC’s proposal, a whole range of clubs will fail to get any commentary.

This issue goes beyond football. Local radio works because it is partisan, because it is rooted in communities and because it identifies with people, speaking to them and for them. Take that localness away and we will take the listeners away. As I mentioned earlier, BBC local radio in England has an estimated 7.5 million listeners, an increase of around 500,000 on last year and 700,000 more than the previous year. Cutting local radio in this way, when listener numbers are going up, makes absolutely no sense. If the current consultation launched by the BBC is to have any validity, I trust that it will listen to the huge number of voices raised in support of local radio and think again.