Non-Domestic Rating (Multipliers and Private Schools) Bill (Second sitting)

Mark Sewards Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 11th December 2024 Public Bill Committees

[Mrs Sureena Brackenridge (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab)]

Q My constituency of Wolverhampton North East does not have a city centre, but we have lots of cafés, brilliant restaurants, microbreweries and pub chains. What benefits will the Bill provide to those small businesses?

Kate Nicholls: If the deduction is applied to the maximum, it will result in a significant reduction in bills for all small hospitality businesses in suburban, neighbourhood and community locations such as your constituency, not just those subject to a cap and getting up to £100,000. Every single hospitality business in your constituency below £500,000—forgive me; I did not double-check, but I do not think you have any over that—will benefit from a permanent reduction in their business rates bills, which will help to redress the balance of their overall tax burden.

Sacha Lord: I would say that this really is a substantial lifeline for all those businesses. My concern is the period between April and when this legislation comes into force.

[Mr Mark Sewards (Leeds South West and Morley) (Lab)]

Q I have a brief question for Kate Nicholls. You mentioned earlier that business rates always come up as a barrier to extra investment. Please can you talk more about that?

Kate Nicholls: I chair the Mayor of London’s tourism recovery taskforce, to get London tourism going, and as part of that we look at foreign direct investment and real estate coming in. More broadly, the top 20 restaurant, pub and hotel chains are all private-equity backed, and most of that is FDI. The subject of business rates always comes up. Every single time you talk about inward investment into the UK, into property-based businesses, and about whether they should come here or go to mainland Europe or America, business rates are an inhibiting factor.

[The Chair]

Order. I am told that I have to cut you off. Sorry about that. That brings us to the end of the allotted time for this set of witnesses, so we will do a changeover. I thank the witnesses from this panel, and we will move on to the next one.

Examination of Witnesses

David Woodgate, Don Beattie, Barnaby Lenon CBE and Simon Nathan gave evidence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Deirdre Costigan]

Q I was specifically asking for a comparison with the state sector. Do you think that redundancies will have a similar impact, a worse impact, or less of an impact in the private sector than in the state sector?

David Woodgate: Inevitably, if pupil-teacher numbers change, that will have a negative impact.

[Mr Sewards]

Q I understand that the Minister wanted to move on from this, but on your comments about aspirational parents, the simple fact is that all state school parents are aspirational, and in many cases they will never be in a financial position to send their kids to private school. I wanted to give you an opportunity to clarify that. Secondly, given that over 1,000 private schools closed between 2010 and 2024 without much media attention, how many private schools do you estimate will close as a result of the Bill?

David Woodgate: On your second point, we estimate that somewhere between 200 and 250 of our 1,300 schools are vulnerable to closure. They may look at mergers or other options—some might academise, for instance—but that is the kind of figure that we are looking at. I take your point about aspirational parents. We have to ensure that this does not impact on the bursary funding that is available for people from more disadvantaged backgrounds to get a place at one of our schools if they wish to go there. We have to ensure that, as far as possible, given these threats to our income, the funds available for bursaries are maintained.

[Mrs Brackenridge]

Q Thank you for coming and sharing your views and experiences. Business rate relief is in the scope of the Bill. I am a former deputy headteacher who worked across state secondary schools. Private schools, I say, are businesses. I had to juggle reductions and constraints across the budget, with departments such as the science department struggling to ensure that children have the full, hands-on experience—

--- Later in debate ---

[Michelle Welsh]

Q Can the Minister set out the scheme that the Government are proposing to ensure that schools that principally deliver education for pupils with special educational needs will not face any additional burdens?

Jim McMahon: That is entirely the point, although perhaps it did not come out in the evidence sessions. A lot of the debate can be quite polarised—whether you are for or against private schools and the rest of it. When I was on the other side of the table, I was clear that I wanted to pull away from that and say, “Well, let’s just have a conversation based on the evidence.” What the evidence says is that there has been provision to ensure that those schools that are mainly or wholly for pupils with special educational needs will not be affected by these measures at all. Why? It is because we recognise that, within the wider school ecosystem, that provision is important in many communities and that many local authorities will support it. That is being provided in the Bill.

In the end, though, I would say that we need to rebuild mainstream provision. We all have constituents at their wits’ end because, after 14 years, mainstream provision has been allowed to erode to such a point that, in some places, it barely exists. We need to rebuild it, and the investment through the autumn statement begins that rebuilding work. It will take time. There is no button to press that resets 14 years in six months, but in terms of a statement of intent, £1 billion through the local government finance settlement for SEND provision is the start of that rebuilding process.

[Mr Sewards]

Q Queen Street in Morley is a fantastic high street, but it has a number of empty shops. I tried to acquire one of them when I was setting up my constituency office, but I was told, “No, no, no—they are about to be occupied.” Six months later, they are still not occupied. I promise it is not just that they did not want me; other people have approached them and had no luck. Please can the Minister shed some light on how we might use multipliers to get these properties occupied?

Jim McMahon: I definitely cannot guarantee that the landlord did not have a view about the tenants in that situation, but I think we all know of examples in which businesses have been frustrated when they have tried to get hold of the landlord of prime retail properties on the high street, sometimes in fantastic historical buildings. When they eventually get a response—if they get one at all—it is like the one my hon. Friend got: it does not bear truth, as the building is still empty six months down the line.

There is a wider issue here about the powers that the community has to take over assets and turn them into something for the public interest, not just distant investor interest. Measures in the Bill will go a long way to ensure that, when those premises are occupied, the occupant gets the support they need to be sustainable in the long term.

[The Chair]

Order. I am afraid that brings us to the end of the sitting. I thank all the witnesses for their evidence and all the members of the Committee for their patience.

Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Gen Kitchen.)