Construction Workers: Pension Age

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Ronnie Cowan

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Westminster Hall

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

As my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian (Owen Thompson) mentioned, 2.2 million people work in construction, without whom there would be no offices, factories, roads, schools or homes. Although we place great value on having a roof our heads, we undervalue the people who build them.

[Margaret Ferrier]

Following on from that, a concerning skills gap is growing in the UK construction sector, which means that existing employees have to work longer hours on site to compensate for that gap. Does the hon. Member agree that if the skills shortage is not addressed, many construction workers will experience fatigue and might be burdened with poor health and retirement outcomes?

[Ronnie Cowan]

I could not agree more. When I left school in the late 1970s, it was no longer fashionable to take on trades. Everybody had to go to college, no matter what the course was, and we lost the skillsets in my local shipyards and in construction for plumbers, joiners, platers, fitters and all those skills. If we look at the average age now—they are getting into their 50s—there has been a gap of sometimes 20 or 30 years before we have taken on new apprentices. We are taking on new apprentices now, but the experience that we lose when these older guys leave is immeasurable. So they are staying on later and later and working longer into what should be their retirement life, sometimes in very physical jobs in very difficult circumstances.

As we approach a general election, a lot of MPs will be asking themselves, “Should I stand again?” For many who, like me, are over 60, age will be a factor in making the decision. Nights like last night, when we were here until 8.30 in the evening walking round and round—I think it was 20 times—would make anyone reconsider their working life.

As for the physical aspect of construction work, I spent the weekend gardening. When I say gardening, I do not mean bedding plants and potting sheds; I mean using industrial petrol-driven machinery. Trees, bushes and grass all got the treatment. My green credentials might have taken a battering, but I can assure Members that the replanting of more appropriate species will take place in the near future. My point is that at 63, hard labour for me was a few hours interrupted by cups of tea, chocolate biscuits, a natter with the neighbours and much stroking of my beard as I perused the damage that, obviously, I was doing. My effort was minuscule compared with the contribution made day in, day out, year in, year out by construction workers and the effect that that has on their joints, muscles and tendons. Mine was minor compared with the toll that years of construction work results in.

When I was 17, I worked on building sites and spent the day carrying bricks, mixing cement and moving raw materials around for the skilled workforce to utilise. I cannot imagine what state my body would be in if I had done that job all my working life. And yet we ask those workers to work in freezing conditions during the winter and increasingly hot conditions in the summer. The job we do must have a bearing on the age we retire at.

On the answer given to my hon. Friend the Member for Midlothian by the UK Government, the UK Government believe that

“the principle of having a State Pension age that is the same for everybody is fundamental in the UK”

but I disagree. They say that it

“has the merit of simplicity and clarity including giving a clear signal to those planning for retirement”,

but what is that clear signal? Is it “Frankly, we don’t care”? Is it “Just be grateful you are not dead already”? Or is it “We don’t appreciate your hard work over all these years”? I suggest it is a combination of all three.

Finally, we have acknowledged that people in many professions can and do retire earlier already—that happens. It is time we extended that to the unsung heroes that are our construction workers.

Access to Cash

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Ronnie Cowan

Wednesday 20th October 2021 Westminster Hall

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Pontypridd (Alex Davies-Jones) on bringing forward this debate.

Of course, most of us still want access to cash. For some, it is still their preferred method to manage their incomes and their outgoings; for many, it is still something they use—less frequently, but it is still required. I read with interest this morning on the BBC that:

“People are taking out more money when they visit ATMs, with the average amount climbing more than £10 to just under £80 in the last two years.”

My immediate thought was, “Cash is making a comeback,” but the next line said:

“But they’re using cash machines 40% less than before and withdrawing £44 a month less.”

I thought, “Is this because there are fewer ATMs? When people find one, are they taking out more money, so that they do not run out before they find another one that is working and is free to use?” However, Nick Quin, head of financial inclusion at LINK, has said:

“Covid has turbocharged the switch to digital”.

While cash usage is down in every constituency in the country, some have seen a 20% drop, while others have seen a drop of as much of 60% over the same time. Different parts of the UK are moving at different rates. It comes as no surprise that the most deprived areas of the country are likely to be using more cash than the wealthiest. Some 5 million people still rely on cash, and as we have heard, and 1 million people do not have a bank account. The average adult withdrew £1,500 in 2020. Cash will remain an important part of life for many people for a long time to come. That is reflected in the UK Government statement that they are

“preserving the long established, traditional services like cash that are integral to people’s lives.”

However, the reality is somewhat different. Access to cash is getting harder.

In my constituency of Inverclyde, the number of free-to-use ATMs has dropped from 87 to 68 in three years. Across Scotland, there has been a 16% reduction, which is compounded by the loss of 400 bank and building society branches, a 34% reduction—which in truth leaves me none the wiser, because I do not know what we are doing as a society. Are we working towards a cashless society? Is it the UK Government’s belief that we are moving towards a cashless society? If so, what is their timescale?

I have a number of issues with a cashless society that have to be addressed. For it to work, we require technology that is robust, secure and available 24/7. Currently, it is not. Only last Saturday, mid-way through preparing a meal for friends, I realised that I was missing a key ingredient. I went to my local convenience store, and there on the front door it said, “Cash only”, with a sign on the ATM saying, “Out of order”. By good luck rather design, I had a fiver in my wallet, and my Nigella Lawson fish curry was a huge success. Cash saved my curry, but what if we had relied on entirely on cashless transactions? What if there was a serious situation, where somebody had to pay a bill to stop the electricity being cut off or needed to pay for a taxi, bus or train to get to a loved one in distress, and cash was a thing of the past and the technology had been compromised?

What I am looking for from the UK Government is a destination and a plan. I remember when we transitioned from old money to decimal. It was a perfectly natural thing for me—as a very young child—but I had to try to explain to my gran, who was used to 12 pence to shilling and 20 shillings to the pound, that, from 240 pennies in a pound, there was now going to be 100. “Where’s my other 140 pennies?” She was baffled by this. To handle these concerns, there was a UK-wide advertising campaign to explain where we were going, what it would mean and how we would get there. If people’s fears are to be allayed and those that require cash are not left behind in a two-tier system, we need to look at a hybrid system that accommodates cash and electronic transfers. To make it work we need a strategy that encompasses a network of ATMs on the high street and in convenience stores with post office services and bank counter services. We need cash without purchase and banking hubs that serve our communities.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ronnie Cowan]

I am sorry, but I do not have time. Most importantly, the roles of each part of the system need to be clearly defined so that they complement each other, and when technology fails there must be a safety net to ensure that people can still top up their meters, purchase food and access public transport.

DWP Estate

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Ronnie Cowan

Wednesday 18th January 2017 Westminster Hall

[Margaret Ferrier]

Thank you, Ms Dorries. I thank all hon. Members for their contributions to my debate. However, I did not get any answers to any of the questions I asked, and I am not sure whether any other hon. Member did either.

[Ronnie Cowan]

Talking about not getting answers to questions, I did not get the opportunity to put my question. I was going to ask the Minister whether she would guarantee that the closures in Glasgow are not the opening salvo in a widespread closure of jobcentres across the United Kingdom, including in my constituency. It would have been nice to have had the opportunity to put that question.

[Margaret Ferrier]

I think my hon. Friend has just put that question very succinctly. He has two jobcentres in his area, and there is a rumour that one of them may close. They are not close to one another—they are in Port Glasgow and Greenock—so there will be a lot of travel for claimants.

The Minister made much of co-location, which was not considered before the announcement of the closure of these jobcentres. On the point about digital, Glasgow is one of the highest areas of digital exclusion. I urge everyone to sign the change.org petition to save the eight Glasgow jobcentres. As the shadow Minister said, this debate has focused primarily on the Glasgow jobcentre closures, but next week or next month it could be North Swindon, Cardiff, Sheffield or Belfast—in fact, any town or city up and down the country. This fight is not over. As the hon. Member for Glasgow East (Natalie McGarry) said, we will be back to speak up for all our constituents.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the future of the DWP estate.

Bank Branch Closures

Debate between Margaret Ferrier and Ronnie Cowan

Thursday 30th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak on a subject of particular importance to my constituents in Inverclyde. As Members are aware, there has been a steady decline in the number of bank branches over the past 20 years. Between 1997 and 2014, almost 4,000 bank branches closed across the UK. Worryingly, this rate of decline shows no sign of decreasing, with figures obtained by the BBC indicating that a further 600 branches closed between April 2015 and April 2016. Proportionately, Scotland, Wales and the south-west of England are the hardest hit by closures.

Unfortunately, Inverclyde has not been immune from the effects of this decline and in recent years there have been a number of prominent branch closures in my constituency. My constituents have clearly expressed their opinion about these closures. They feel frustrated and dissatisfied. They feel that their views about an important community service have not been respected.

[Margaret Ferrier]

I have been contacted by several of my constituents who are concerned about the branch closure of the Royal Bank of Scotland, which is just across the road from my constituency office in Cambuslang, and about the Clydesdale bank in Blantyre. They rely on over-the-counter services and no reasonable alternatives are being put forward. Does my hon. Friend agree that banks have a responsibility to these people, many of whom have been customers for many decades?

[Ronnie Cowan]

I certainly agree. When the Gourock branch shut in my constituency, the Royal Bank of Scotland gave me four alternatives within travelling distance, one of which is in Dunoon. Those with local knowledge will be aware that 5.72 miles from Gourock might seem fine, but it is not possible to drive there because it is across a body of water! A ferry journey there and back would be required. That is a good instance of where the geography of the area has not been taken into consideration.

When the Port Glasgow branch of RBS closed in 2012, my constituents were told that it was not a problem as they would still have access to the branches in the neighbouring towns of Kilmacolm and Greenock. When RBS took the decision last year to close the Kilmacolm branch, my constituents were told that that was not a problem as they would still have access to the Greenock branch. How long will it be until RBS tells my constituents that it is closing the Greenock branch, but that that is not a problem because there is a branch in Glasgow?

RBS made a promise that they would never close the “last bank in town”, but since 2014 that is precisely what they have done—165 times. Kilmacolm is now one such place without a bank. Instead, it is serviced by a mobile banking van of the kind we might see travelling around rural communities such as Mull or Iona. In January, RBS invited me to Kilmacolm to see how the new system and the mobile banking van worked in practice. I watched constituents lining up on the pavement in the pouring rain waiting to be served. They stood outside in the open, often with large sums of cash in their bags. When customers eventually reached the front of the queue, they had little or no privacy in which to carry out their personal banking. The procedure was even worse for elderly people and those with a disability, since the van’s narrow, steep and slippery stairs restricted accessibility. For example, a person in a wheelchair can expect to be served outside in the open, as it is physically impossible for them to enter the vehicle.

There was anger and frustration among customers using the service. Their most pressing concern was about the security of undertaking their personal banking in this way. The van was set up just metres from the empty shop unit that had once contained the permanent branch, which only compounded the agitation of customers as they stood in the rain waiting to be served. I have since revisited the van several times, and it is obvious that it is not an acceptable substitute for a bank branch permanently based in a community.

Gourock has also been hit by recent bank closures. Earlier this month, the Bank of Scotland closed the only remaining bank in the town. I appreciate that the way people bank is evolving and moving into the digital world—I wrote IT banking systems in a previous life—but it is important that all people within society be catered for, and that is not happening. The Bank of Scotland report into the Gourock branch closure showed that 44% of its customers were aged 55 or over, and undoubtedly some will not have been comfortable with online banking. That figure alone should have been sufficient to keep a branch open as a service to the community.

I know that banks undertake consultations and implement transitional arrangements, but are increased profits an acceptable excuse for providing a reduced service to the community? Perhaps a balance can be found, but I fear that branch closures are already undermining the service required by my constituents. Banks have an obligation to communities and play a key role in local economies. My constituency is fighting a war of attrition against economic stagnation and a declining population. High street bank closures are only making it harder for us to overcome those difficulties.

I shall end with a direct appeal to the major banks. I understand their need to evolve and adapt, but the closures have come too fast and lasted too long. It is time for that to end. I hope that the banks will give serious consideration to the concerns raised in the Chamber today.