Animal Welfare (Kept Animals) Bill (Second sitting)

Luke Evans Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2021 Public Bill Committees

[Dr Hudson]

Q Your evidence, and the evidence we heard from Dogs Trust this morning, has really reinforced that this is good legislation but it needs an effective effector arm, if you like, to monitor and enforce it. With border checks and adequate resources for that, we will be able to try to stop people moving animals in those situations.

Rob Quest: I would agree.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

Q We have talked a lot today about cats and dogs, but the legislation also covers ferrets. I wonder if there are any animals that have been missed, or what you see with regard to ferrets in particular. I understand the reasoning behind it, but is there any comment there? The Committee has not heard anything about that today.

Rob Quest: We do not see many ferrets being imported, to be quite honest. We see literally thousands of dogs and cats, but a handful of ferrets.

[Dr Evans]

Q That is really helpful for the Committee to know. Are there any other animals that you feel should be covered by the Bill?

Rob Quest: No, I do not think so at the moment. We can get things right for dogs and cats first, and then perhaps look at other animals.

[The Chair]

As there are no further questions, I thank Rob Quest, chairman of the Canine and Feline Sector Group.

Examination of Witness

Mike Webb gave evidence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Hudson]

Thank you. Hopefully the Minister and the Government can help us through this process. It is really helpful for us to hear that your view is that this important stuff needs to be done in either primary or secondary legislation, but on some of these issues, such as the health status of animals, it needs to be done quickly, so we can stop diseases coming in and stop cruel practices. Hopefully the Government can work with everyone on that.

[Dr Evans]

Q I point out what I said earlier about my interest in zoos. On zoos, Justine, your report mentions the “Secretary of State’s Standards of Modern Zoo Practice”. What is your understanding of that, and your concerns about it?

Justine Shotton: Our main concern is that these are under review, and we and other stakeholders have not had sight of the new standards. We also do not know whether there will be a transition period. That is really important, particularly for some of the smaller, less resourced zoos and particularly after the pandemic. Zoos have really struggled during the pandemic, even the very big ones. We absolutely support higher welfare standards in zoos, but we need to be mindful that if there are changes that will take time, zoos need time to make those changes, otherwise there could be welfare harms to those animals, particularly with the challenges we are seeing around exporting zoo animals at the moment, which is very difficult. They could go into other areas of trade where their welfare may be compromised. Our key ask is around having sight of the new standards and a legitimate transition period for those smaller zoos in particular.

[Dr Evans]

Q That is really helpful to look at the welfare side. I do not know if your organisation has a position on conservation because that has been brought in together with the zoo aspect. Do you have any comments on that?

Justine Shotton: Again, I think we would want to see what it entails. Personally, I work for a conservation-focused zoo and I think conservation is really important and absolutely a key part of why zoos should exist in society. However, in terms of our comments on conservation more broadly, we would want to see what that would look like before we could comment, how achievable it is and exactly what it would cover.

[Dr Evans]

Q How do you think things are set up to provide the communication, both to you as practising veterinarians and to the public about the standards of welfare?

Justine Shotton: Yes, probably more can be done in both of those areas in terms of communicating to vets and other members of the zoo community about welfare and what zoos can do. We do a lot of animal welfare assessment, for example, in zoo animals. We have published a lot on that in our zoo in particular. I think sometimes the public do not realise the breadth of what goes on in good zoos to maximise animal welfare, so I think public education is vital as well.

[Olivia Blake]

Q I want to pick up on some of the breeding issues in primates. What is your view on whether the licensing scheme would leave scope for inappropriate breeding if there was not enough oversight? Do you think the annual health check from a veterinary surgeon would help combat that? I was interested to see your addition of that in your written evidence.

Justine Shotton: In terms of breeding in general, if there was licensing, that would have to be very tightly worded around breeding itself. It calls for neutering in another part of that wording, and we want to be really clear that that also includes contraception. Primates live in these social groups, and if you neuter rather than contracept them, sometimes that can really disrupt the group dynamic. There are a lot of methods of safe contraception available that experts in primate medicine would be able to advise on, which is why, again, it fits in with the annual health check that we are recommending. The vet would be able to have that conversation with the primate keeper and discuss the appropriate method of contraception or, in possible circumstances, breeding if it was part of a legitimate reason for breeding.