Energy Price Freeze

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger]

I thank my hon. Friend for that contribution. Back in 2008, 16 areas were identified where Ofgem was not doing a proper job. The other year it was found that it had improved in only four of those 16 areas which, over that time, is frankly not good enough. When millions of our constituents and businesses up and down the country are suffering, we need a proper regulator with teeth, as well as the responsibility and ability to ensure that when there are reductions in wholesale costs, those reductions are passed on to consumers in way that is not done at the moment.

The Secretary of State was keen to talk about the green deal and the energy company obligation, which the Government have presented as a sort of quick-fix. Of course we need to do everything to ensure that we help millions of households across the country that do not have proper insulation in their homes, as that is one of the best ways to reduce bills. What the Government have proposed, however, and what they are doing on the green deal—well, the figures speak for themselves and we wait to see what will happen by the end of the year. The Minister said he would not be sleeping at night if 10,000 homes had not had a green deal package, but we wait to see the figures.

[Gregory Barker]

Well over 10,000 homes have already installed green deal measures.

[Luciana Berger]

I am referring to figures of those that have actually completed. I return to my point that we have the green deal in hand with the ECO, and thousands of people in the insulation industry have lost their jobs.

Let me mention an actual individual. Mr Sturdy in my constituency is 85 years old. He has previously had a stroke, suffered from angina, and undergone a quadruple heart bypass. He has been visited in his home three times by three separate companies purporting to help him with the energy company obligation. Separately, his energy company, SSE, said “Go to Carillion as it will help you with the energy company obligation.” He has paid hundreds of pounds to get his loft cleared and his thin insulation removed, yet all those companies cannot provide him with the insulation he needs. He has spent hundreds of pounds and his home is now less well insulated than it was before. He is facing a very cold winter and I hope the Government will address that in their remarks.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 17th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

16. What steps he is taking to help households improve their energy efficiency.

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)]

For the first time ever, the UK now has a national energy efficiency strategy. This is something no Government have put in place before. Helping to cut energy bills is at the heart of this drive through the green deal, energy company obligation, electricity market reform, smart meter roll-out and support for innovation, research and development. They all demonstrate the Government’s determination to drive unprecedented investment into energy efficiency.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Lady seems to be confusing the record of the coalition with that of the last Government. During the last Parliament, fuel poverty rose in every single year; under the coalition, it has fallen in every year. [Interruption.] The definition has not been changed yet. It will be changed next year, on a cross-party basis.

We still have a great deal to do, but this Government are rolling up their sleeves and making a difference, unlike the last Government. They had the chance to deal with fuel poverty, but it rose in every single year of the last Parliament.

[Luciana Berger]

The Government forecast that the green deal and the energy company obligation would create 60,000 jobs, but earlier this year the Insulation Industry Forum confirmed that more than 4,000 jobs had been lost during the transition to the ECO. Just the other week, Carillion, a leading green deal provider, was forced to announce a restructuring that is expected to lead to further job losses in the green deal sector. That is a disaster for the workers who are affected, for their families, and for our low-carbon industry. Can the Minister confirm the number of people who have lost their jobs since the scheme was launched, and can he explain why this is happening?

[Gregory Barker]

We are certainly seeing a change in the industry, and we expect to see a structural change. New companies are now entering the market. The growth that we are seeing is not in the big energy companies created by the last Labour Government, but in the small and medium-sized enterprises, the independents and entrepreneurs who are being championed by the coalition. The ECO is helping more than 215,000 households, and we expect it—in combination with other measures—to enable nearly a quarter of a million homes to benefit from insulation, and from a range of new products that were not available before, by the end of the year.

Energy Prices and Profits

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Wednesday 4th September 2013 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Lady was not actually here for the debate. We are taking action to give more teeth to the regulator and compensate energy consumers who have been badly treated. We have embarked on radical market reform to unleash investment in modern clean energy, building our energy security that was so perilously ignored by Labour. We are also offering immediate help for our constituents. For example, Labour put the whole cost of the renewable heat incentive on to consumer bills. We have removed it, saving consumers £120 million a year collectively. Labour refused to cut solar feed-in tariffs, despite fixing them far too high. We took the tough decision to cut those tariffs. We were right, they were wrong. Solar deployment is up, costs are coming down, and the consumer is better off.

[Luciana Berger]

Will the Minister tell the House what the additional amount will be on all our bills from the Government’s miscalculation of the energy company obligation?

[Gregory Barker]

We have not miscalculated the ECO. It is coming very close indeed to the impact assessment that we published last year. I am happy to tell the House that costs of the ECO are continuing to come down, and we are seeing a number of technologies deployed far more cost effectively than under the poor Warm Front scheme that the Labour party put together, and which so many Members from around the House wrote to me to complain about. We are doing other things to help consumers. Our warm home discount means £135 this winter for more than 2 million poorer households.

Energy Bill

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger]

We wanted properly to scrutinise the Government’s plans in Committee. We have only recently had the opportunity to do so, and we have just heard what the Minister said. I remind the hon. Gentleman that pay-as-you-save efficiency scheme pilots were started under the last Government. We are waiting to see exactly how the green deal is doing. We await the Government’s figures, and we expect to see them at the end of June.

During pre-legislative scrutiny, the Energy and Climate Change Committee concluded that Ministers were failing to give enough priority to demand-side measures. As I have said, we still had no firm proposals on Second Reading. In Committee, the Minister would not confirm whether the Government would definitely seek to include demand reduction amendments in the Bill once his consultation had concluded. Now, at long last, we have the results. We received them two weeks before Third Reading and a year to the day since the Bill was first published.

The Minister has now said that he is minded to pilot measures to reduce electricity demand through the capacity market, and we welcome that step. However, the Government’s own response to their consultation accepted that that course of action still presented a number of uncertainties. A number of questions remain unanswered. I am sorry that the Minister will not have an opportunity to answer them, but I would be happy to give way if he would like to intervene on me. It would be helpful to know, for example, exactly how the pilots will work and by how much the proposals will reduce electricity demand. Those are currently complete unknowns.

The Government’s forecasts from before the new clauses were published showed that current policies would reduce electricity demand by 59 TWh in 2018 and by 68 TWh in 2030. That energy saving would be dwarfed, however, by an additional 92 TWh of untapped potential saving that could be achieved by 2030, according to analysis by McKinsey. That could be the equivalent of a 25% reduction in total electricity demand, representing a colossal saving. It is unfortunate that the Minister could not share with us the Government’s estimate of by how much the capacity market could reduce electricity demand over the same period.

Many people have also raised serious concerns about how effective the capacity markets can be in rewarding energy saving. In the United States, for example, a similar policy in Massachusetts resulted in energy efficiency projects receiving just 3% of total capacity payments. Despite complex design, 70% of capacity payments went to existing fossil fuel generation instead. Were the Government aware of that scheme? If so, what lessons have they learned from it?

The way in which new clauses 11 and 12 are drafted provides the mechanism for pilots to happen, but they do not offer any further detail. I listened carefully to the Minister’s remarks, but there were a lot of gaps. The proposals do not specify what measures will be piloted, or whether more than one measure will be trialled. We are no clearer, following his remarks, as to when the Government are planning to launch the pilot or when they expect the first capacity auction to take place.

[Gregory Barker]

We are expecting to run a capacity market trial in 2014. We expect the pilot for energy demand reduction to be run then as well. We will be providing further details.

[Luciana Berger]

I thank the Minister for his intervention, and hope he will lay before the House the rules governing those auctions so that we can properly scrutinise them. We hope they will be forthcoming.

I was disappointed by the Minister’s response to the amendment proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test (Dr Whitehead). I echo the Minister’s words that my hon. Friend, as the whole House will know, has long-standing expertise and considerable experience in this area. His amendment 35 would require the Secretary of State to establish

“a scheme…to make payments for the purpose of rewarding…energy saving measures”

and to do so “within one year” of this Bill becoming law. That would introduce clear, simple payments for households and businesses, and it could start immediately, with no wait for a capacity crunch to trigger an auction. I understand that the majority of respondents to the Government’s consultation favoured a premium payment option along those very lines, but we did not hear from the Minister the rationale behind the Government’s decision to reject that option and favour instead incentivising demand reduction through the capacity market.

Let me touch briefly on amendment 47, also proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test, which would establish a green power auction market, or GPAM. This would combat a significant issue. The UK needs to invest £75 billion in new renewable generation by 2020. Analysis of DECC’s own figures has shown that the Government are currently relying on 35% to 50% of this investment being delivered by independent renewable energy generators, or the “disruptive new entrants”, as the Minister referred to them on a number of occasions. Their current route to market is dependent on long-term purchase power agreements with the big six. A green power auction market of the kind my hon. Friend proposes could open up the market to new suppliers, increase competition and potentially deliver a cash saving to consumers of £2 billion. Although I welcome the Minister’s saying that he wants to address this sector and that a real issue is at stake, I sincerely hope that a viable solution, which he said would be forthcoming, is in place in time for the allocation of the first CFDs in 2014.

I conclude by dealing with our amendment 1 on community energy, which stands in my name and those of my right hon. Friend the Member for Don Valley (Caroline Flint) and my hon. Friend the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex). Speaking as a Labour and Co-operative Member, I am very proud to speak to this amendment. It would appear that the Minister and I agree that community energy schemes deliver enormous benefits to our country. They bring diversity, resilience and security to the energy market. They boost our economy by attracting new sources of investment, and they help to tackle fuel poverty through a strategy for generating and saving energy that is owned by local people.

I recently saw that first hand when I visited Brixton Energy, an award-winning solar project run by Repowering South London. It is the UK’s first inner-city co-operatively-owned energy project, and I urge hon. Members to pay it a visit if they have not already had the pleasure. As well as offsetting 28 tonnes of carbon every year, the project is providing invaluable work experience opportunities for young people. There are many other fantastic community energy projects throughout the country: Westmill wind farm co-operative in Oxfordshire, Neilston community wind farm near Glasgow and the Lochcarnan community wind farm—the list goes on. There is a risk, however, that as drafted the Bill could stop these types of larger community schemes ever happening again. That is why we need to amend it today.

The Secretary of State has said that he

“wants nothing less than a community energy revolution”,

but those words ring rather hollow when we examine how this Bill fails to address how community energy schemes can compete with large-scale commercial generation. The issues have been well summarised by Cornwall Energy, when it said that the high degree of technical knowledge needed to participate in the system is a barrier for many smaller generators, and that the proposed CFD system does not compensate smaller generators for the lower market prices they receive for their power. With the end of the renewables obligation, the Bill provides no incentive for suppliers to purchase renewable electricity from independent generators.

Energy Bill

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Monday 3rd June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger]

My hon. Friend raises a point we on the Opposition Benches have raised many times before about the challenges we face with our very opaque energy market, where we do not know the true cost of our energy and many of our generators are also our suppliers. We will wait for the secondary legislation to hear exactly what the Government mean by that term, but it is fair to say that we are dealing a lot in this Bill with a broken market, and it is a shame that the Government are not proposing legislation to fix it.

We accept that there is a relatively small chance of a compensation package exceeding 10%, but that is not an impossibility. If a case ever did exceed that amount, it is likely that an enormous number of consumers would have been affected. It would be irresponsible for the Government not to be prepared for that scenario. In Committee, the Minister said that if consumers suffer losses greater than the compensation they receive, they will still be able to seek further redress through the courts, but surely he acknowledges it would be better not to risk that happening in the first place by amending this Bill.

Surely that would be better than abandoning consumers and leaving them to endure a long and protracted court battle to get due recompense. We believe it makes more sense to guarantee that families will always receive pound-for-pound compensation when they have been mistreated, which is why our amendments specify that compensation would be allowed to exceed 10% of turnover if

“one or more consumers have suffered loss or damage greater than this value.”

The Department’s own impact assessment said that such a change would send a powerful signal to energy firms on consumer protection. That is our priority.

This Government claim that they are on the side of consumers and today they have the chance to prove it. Our amendments put consumers first, ensuring that mistreated families will not be short-changed, no matter when they were wronged or how much they are owed. Will the Government stand up for the many? The question for the Minister and his colleagues is simple today: whose side are they on?

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)]

The Opposition amendments seek to amend schedule 14 by removing restrictions on retrospective and unlimited liability. I understand the concerns and motivations of the Opposition, but I can assure them that this coalition is also committed not only to helping hard-working families and, indeed, all consumers with the rising cost of living, but to empowering consumers and protecting hard-working families from rip-offs and scams. So although I have some sympathy with the aim of amendments 2 and 5, which are intended to allow Ofgem to compel energy companies to pay redress for events that happened prior to the enactment of this Bill, I am troubled by the effect of setting a precedent by retrospectively applying powers in the energy market and by the impact that that would have on all consumers. There is a general principle that powers should not be applied by this House retrospectively. Beyond that principle, there is potential for very real, negative impacts on consumers.

The Government are committed to encouraging competitive pressure on the big energy market players, but the regulatory uncertainty these amendments would introduce would be likely to lead to an increase in the cost of capital for energy companies, and that, in turn, could push up bills for everyone. Furthermore, it could create investor uncertainty at the very time we are trying to encourage the necessary private sector investment required to move to a low-carbon economy and renew our energy infrastructure. More expensive finance would most heavily hit the smaller companies that are also covered by this legislation—the very small companies and entrepreneurs we want to attract into the sector. Under the previous Labour Government, competition in the electricity sector shrank to leave just six big supply companies dominating it. The last thing we want to do is accept amendments that could hinder new entrants to the market.

The amendments may also lead to increases in the cost of insurance premiums for companies, in order to cover the extension of liability for events that took place prior to the enactment of this legislation—again, that is likely to be proportionately higher for smaller energy companies. All these factors could push up the cost of living for hard-working families, at a time when, as we know, many can ill afford it. I understand the intention behind the amendments, but the unintended consequences could end up hitting the very people we are trying to protect, and so we cannot accept them.

Again, I have some sympathy with the intention of Opposition amendments 3, 4, 6 and 7, which seek to ensure that the amount of compensation that can be required through a consumer redress order is not limited. As I said at the outset, the coalition Government are absolutely committed to providing a fair deal to consumers. So when considering these amendments, we should look to balance the need for a redress mechanism that allows consumers timely and proportionate compensation, with an appeal mechanism that is proportionate to the potential liability faced by energy companies.

Under existing arrangements, consumers can obtain redress through the courts, but we recognise that the legal process is lengthier and does not offer a typically quick remedy for consumers who have been badly served or ripped off. That is largely because the courts offer recourse for consumers in cases where compensation may exceed the 10% limit set in this legislation. The legal process is necessarily equal to the potential sums at stake. The powers set out in schedule 14, however, contain appeal mechanisms, proportionate to the potential penalty, limited to 10% of an energy company’s annual turnover.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 31st January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

The golden rule in the green deal should mean that the vast majority of people, on a like-for-like basis, will be better off, even after financing is taken into account. It is about time that Labour stopped running down the green deal; stopped running down all the small and medium-sized enterprises and small businesses investing in this new opportunity; stopped running down all the people training up and getting skills for this new opportunity; and started talking up the British economy, rather than scoring cheap political points.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is because my Labour colleagues want the green deal to work that we are trying to hold the Government to account over the practicalities of a scheme that we have been talking about for the past two years.

The Government predicted that the green deal would create 100,000 jobs by 2016, but the Insulation Industry Forum estimates that since its soft launch in October more than 83,000 insulation projects have been cancelled or put on hold and that 4,200 people have lost their jobs in the sector. What has gone wrong?

[Gregory Barker]

We are at the dawn of a far more exciting and expansive long-term project. We are talking not only about lagging lofts, but about the whole-house retrofit of millions of homes, and our impact assessment shows that we will create tens of thousands of jobs by 2015. Perhaps the hon. Lady would stop scaremongering about interest rates and start getting behind all the consumers and small businesses that will benefit from the green deal.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 12th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

I cannot give the hon. Lady a breakdown of that, but I can tell her—[Interruption.] I will happily write with more detail about Nottingham South, but I can say that we helped a large number of people through Warm Front last year. However, we need to do much more than we could possibly achieve under the relatively limited Warm Front programme, which experienced so many troubles when the Labour party was in government. The green deal is going to be transformational and offer not just the very poor but everyone the opportunity to retrofit their homes.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

We have been telling the Minister for months that, to be a success, the green deal must be a good deal. According to calculations confirmed by a spokesman in his Department, if we take the Government’s intended rate of interest—7.5%, which is lower than the highest rate under the impact assessment—a household taking out a green deal of £10,000 would have to pay back around £22,000 over a 25-year period, which is more than double the cost of paying for the measures up front. Does the Minister think that represents a good deal?

[Gregory Barker]

I do not think there is any division between the hon. Lady and myself in wanting a good deal. We can certainly agree on that, and that is why we have put so much time and effort into this transformational plan. However, the obsession with interest rates alone, to the exclusion of everything else, does not serve her well. I think that the Labour party is actually announcing that it would subsidise interest. That will cost consumers billions and force up everybody’s energy bills. Why do the Opposition not just come clean, say that they are going to subsidise interest and put everybody’s bills up, rather than doing what we are doing, which is coming forward with a progressive market solution?

[Luciana Berger]

I thank the Minister for that response, but he need refer only to the contributions I made in debates on secondary legislation to know that there are many things in the green deal that we are concerned about, beyond the interest rate. With interest rates so high, there is a great risk that the public will not be interested in the green deal. We know from polling conducted by the Great British Refurb campaign that anything over 6% means that 90% of the British people will just not be interested. Indeed, the Department estimates that the number of homes being insulated next year will fall dramatically. Given that the green deal is meant to launch in October, why is the Minister not doing something about this now, to ensure that consumers really will get a good deal?

[Gregory Barker]

We are absolutely committed to giving consumers a good deal, which involves a high range of competition, new entrants and more choice. This is not some Stalinist five-year plan; this is a brand new market. It is perfectly valid to suggest that there should be subsidised interest rates, but let us hear how the Labour party is going to pay for that and how much Labour is going to put on consumer bills. We have a proposal for targeted support from the green investment bank, but the hon. Lady’s blanket approach, which does not understand economics, would be very costly for everybody and force up bills for families.

Feed-in Tariffs Scheme

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 24th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

I thank the Minister for his statement. Unfortunately his office sent the statement and the 39-page consultation response document just over half an hour ago, so I have not been able to study it in detail. I was, however, able to get details of what was in the statement from someone at Friends at the Earth, who had been briefed by his Department before I received a copy. Perhaps the Minister can share with us why that was possible.

The chaotic manner in which the statement came about tells its own story about the Government’s approach to feed-in tariffs. No one disputes the need to bring down the FIT level in an orderly fashion, but the Government’s chaotic mismanagement of that process threatens a growing industry and undermines investment across the entire low-carbon sector. This debacle, a mess created by this Minister, began more than eight months ago and has so far cost the Department more than £80,000 in legal fees.

Once again, the Government are sneaking out changes to feed-in tariffs on the day before a recess. They did it in February and they have done it again today. The Minister threw a lot of smoke and mirrors about why he is moving the July deadline, but the truth is that he is changing the deadline not because he wants to but because he has to. Will he confirm that the Government have missed the deadline by which they were legally required to provide notice to Parliament for the next round of cuts to have come into force by 1 July? Is not his incompetence the real reason he has been forced to come to the House today?

On the detail of his statement, will the Minister tell us whether, despite the changes announced today, the number of installations will still drop by a third this year? I welcome the announcement that tariffs will continue to be linked to the retail prices index, but what estimate has he made of the effect on take-up of the reduction from 25 to 20-year payments? If take-up remains low, what measures will he introduce to boost demand to meet his ambition of 22 GW by 2020?

The Minister says he wishes to set up a PV cost reduction taskforce. What mechanisms will he put in place to ensure that a cut in the cost of installation does not lead to an increase in rogue solar installers? If demand does exceed the deployment level set by his Department, what will be the additional cut to the tariff above the 3.5% he has announced today? He says that he listens to the industry, but if he really listened he would not have dragged it through the courts, trying to impose devastating cuts that went too far and too fast. He lost that battle. This entire process has been a long list of blunders by the Minister and his Department. Will he now agree to independent oversight of the feed-in tariff to prevent future mishandling of the scheme?

In February, the Minister said that his cuts would

“deliver for far more people”—[Official Report, 9 February 2012; Vol. 540, c. 473.]—

and more than under Labour, but the number of installations has collapsed since his last cuts came into force in April. He said that his Government would deliver 22 GW of solar power by 2020, but at the current rate of installation that target will be missed by more than 100 years. He also said that he would put the industry on a sustainable footing, but a devastated 6,000 people have lost their job as a direct result of his actions last summer.

The Government’s rushed changes to feed-in tariffs go too far and too fast, hitting squeezed families who are trying to protect themselves from soaring energy bills and paralysing an entire industry. Instead of supporting businesses, he put thousands of jobs at risk and left the sector living on its nerves. Today was a chance to end the uncertainty and lay out a clear path to 2020, but the Minister has failed to set out his plan to deliver his 22 GW by 2020. He said that he wants to deliver TLC—I have noted the phrase transparency, longevity and certainty on a number of occasions—but all we got today was more of the same: more chaos, more confusion and more cuts.

[Gregory Barker]

I am very sorry that the Labour party is stuck in this rut of doom-mongering, carping and sapping the confidence of the industry. Everyone I have spoken to, right across the board, wants to re-inject a sense of confidence and energy into this vital sector, but rather than rally around the sector Labour Members are determined to sap confidence even more and send chaotic messages to people who are trying to make a living—all for short-term, petty political gain. Rather than look at the long term, they are just playing politics.

As for sneaking out an announcement on the last day before recess, it may be that this is a half-day, slacker’s shift for Opposition Members, but for coalition Members it is a full working day. Obviously, the hon. Lady sees today as part of the holidays, but I assure her that we are at work.

Let me be absolutely clear: we have not moved the date by one or two days, or one or two weeks. If that was what we wanted to do, we could have done it, but we wanted to send a very clear message to the industry that we are listening. We have moved the date from 1 July to 1 August in a very planned, deliberate and thoughtful way, and I think the industry will be glad of that change. The bottom line is that had we wanted to meet the 1 July deadline, we would have had to lay the measures sooner, but we did not want to meet the deadline of 1 July. The deadline is now to have the measures in place to allow the cuts to take place on 1 August. I thought that even the Opposition would have been capable of working that out.

The hon. Lady asked about ambitions for installation. Continuing to build deployment is key for a sustainable UK industry. I can tell her what our impact assessment will say and what the coalition’s clear ambition and expectation is. Under the totally unfit-for-purpose scheme produced by the current Leader of the Opposition as one of his last acts in government, about 250,000 solar panels would have been put on to roofs. I can say to the hon. Lady that, thanks to our reforms, there will be more than 1 million solar panels on British homes by the next general election. I am really proud of that. Delivery will be far more cost-effective than it would have been under Labour’s scheme, and unlike that scheme ours will be delivered on a long-term basis, free from political interference, and it will be much more transparent, sustainable and predictable.

On the 2020 ambition, the hon. Lady is absolutely right that solar is a transformational technology. Developments around the world now lead us to be confident that we can deliver on a very high ambition, and mine is 22 GW by the end of the decade—but that depends absolutely on our driving down costs. How and where we do that and the point at which we do it will be critical. That is why I am determined to work more closely with the industry.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 17th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

I have listened carefully to what the Minister has said. The launch of the green deal is just five months away, yet we are still waiting for the secondary legislation to be published. Energy companies do not know whether they are going to be ready for the launch, no green deal assessors have been trained, no detail is available on the interest rate, and the Government’s wildly optimistic predictions on jobs and take-up are constantly being downgraded. The Minister said a moment ago that he did not believe in targets, yet only about 12 months ago he was saying that 14 million homes would be covered by the green deal by 2020. We now know that No. 10 is also worried about it, and is calling on the Cabinet Office to try to prevent this impending car crash. How will the Minister ensure that the interest rate is low enough to make sure that the green deal is a good deal for consumers?

[Gregory Barker]

I thank the hon. Lady for that speech. The fact is that the green deal is on track, and we will be publishing the secondary legislation very shortly; it will be done and dusted before the summer recess. We had an excellent meeting yesterday with the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister in which we reviewed the whole green deal programme, and I am glad to report that we are all on track.

Energy and Climate Change

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 10th May 2012 Ministerial Corrections

[Luciana Berger]

To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change how many officials in his Department were working on the (a) Green Deal and (b) Energy Company Obligation on (i) 1 May 2010, (ii) 1 November 2010, (iii) 1 May 2011, (iv) 1 November 2011 and (v) 1 April 2012.

[Official Report, 30 April 2012, Vol. 543, c. 1221-1222W.]

Letter of correction from Gregory Barker:

An error has been identified in the written answer given to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) on 30 April 2012. Paragraph one makes reference to 49 officials having worked on policy when it should have read that 48 officials had worked on the policy.

The full answer given was as follows:

[Gregory Barker]

In May 2010 the focus was on Household Energy Efficiency when approximately 49 officials worked on the policy. After the election that policy was re-focused on a new longer term programme, the Green Deal.

From November 2010 to present day the figures are in the following table, broken down in the two areas:

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 8th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

We are not expecting any impact as a result of that. Obviously, there is a constant need for a new generation of technologies to emerge. What we want, both for the fuel poor and for this country’s energy security, is a broad mix of fossil fuels, renewables and nuclear. We think that that is the best route forward.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

When the previous Labour Government left office, 1 million fewer households were living in fuel poverty than in 1997. The Tory Government have scrapped Warm Front, the carbon emissions reduction target, the community energy saving programme and social tariffs, and they have cut the winter fuel allowance. As a result, the level of fuel poverty has risen from one in five households to one in four. The Minister, who is responsible for tackling climate change, has said that the energy company obligation would deliver far more for the fuel poor than any measure introduced by Labour, yet the Government’s own figures show that, in a best-case scenario, the ECO will lift just half a million homes out of fuel poverty. With energy bills at record levels, why are the Government turning their back on the fuel poor?

[Gregory Barker]

It is ridiculous for the hon. Lady to pretend that the number of fuel poor did not rise from 2004 to 2009 from 2 million to 5.5 million. It would be good, on this really important subject, if, rather than trying to score cheap partisan points, we could build a new consensus. We are bringing forward some very important measures on fuel poverty and we are determined to really make a difference.

Energy Bill [Lords]

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Wednesday 14th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that we will keep all elements of the green deal under close review. We are embarking on a really new, large-scale proposition; there is nothing quite like it anywhere in the world. We are pioneering a new model for energy saving, at scale, and as a result we will need continually to monitor all aspects of it, especially those relating to selling and mis-selling. We will need to ensure that the legislation that we have put on the statute book, the codes of practice that underpin it and the secondary legislation that we will introduce in due course before the launch of the green deal remain pertinent. If we identify any areas in which we think improvements can be made, we will not hesitate to make them.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Given the Minister’s response to the question from the hon. Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea Leadsom), it would be useful to know whether there have been any developments over the summer following our discussions on the golden rule. The distinction between the green deal and other financial products is that the cumulative cost of the rate of interest and the cost of the installation should not exceed the amount that people are currently paying on their energy bills. We discussed that in Committee, and it would be useful to know whether there have been any developments on that front.

[Gregory Barker]

There has not been any substantive development on that because we have not yet undertaken the consultation on the secondary legislation that will bring in the regulations. We have begun to hold discussions with stakeholders, and we will consult on the detail of the golden rule because it forms an important part of the measures, but there was no substantive movement over the recess.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gregory Barker]

One or two, or small numbers, may fall through the net, but by and large we have to think about how the green deal will be implemented. Many of the families and individuals the hon. Gentleman is worried about will be captured by community roll-out and street-by-street roll-out of energy efficiency improvement schemes. We have the ECO so that we can offer whole communities the same service on an equal footing, regardless of their ability to pay. We will have to think about how to ensure fairness, because we want to include people living in isolated communities or those living in a relatively prosperous areas in a detached home, perhaps on their own, but I think the vast majority of the types of vulnerable consumer the hon. Gentleman is worried about will be captured by the whole-community approach that we anticipate will be taken up by many local authorities in street-by-street approaches. We need the ECO to be able to offer insulation and home improvements to whole streets, regardless of income, to ensure that we do these things at scale. I do not pretend that we have the perfect solution, but I believe that what we have is by far the best approach in comparison with anything tried before.

With that, I will finish. I will respond to the other amendments raised by hon. Members when I wind up the debate on this group.

[Luciana Berger]

We are delighted that the Government are keeping the amendments proposed in Committee. We accept the proposals to make the provisions more workable, as the Minister set out.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gregory Barker]

All those issues are the subject of a constructive and thoughtful conversation between my Department and the Treasury.

[Luciana Berger]

The Minister has said that interest rates are just one element, and we have argued that it is integral and crucial to whether the green deal will deliver, not only because of the affordability of products—if the interest rate is 8% or more, very few products will fall within the golden rule, and if it is 6% or more, a few more will be added but some of the more ambitious measures would not be included—but most importantly because of public uptake. According to the Great British Refurb campaign study and polling of the public, just 7% of the public said that they would take up the green deal if the interest rate was 6% or more. The Government will not meet their ambition of reaching 14 million homes by 2020 if the interest rate is too high.

--- Later in debate ---

[Luciana Berger]

We are obviously aware of the stakeholder groups and the consultations going on in DECC, but as far as I am aware only one or two consumer groups are involved, and the majority of organisations taking part in those discussions are businesses. None of the businesses I have spoken with has indicated that it will seek to present a 0% interest rate on its green deal package. Returning to the polling I just asked the Minister about, does he accept the polling from the Great British Refurb campaign, which indicates that only 7% of the British public would take up the green deal if the interest rate was 6% or more? All the organisations we have spoken with have indicated that the interest rate would be at that level or above.

[Gregory Barker]

I am afraid that the hon. Lady is wrong. We have a huge degree of engagement with consumer groups. All the obvious consumer groups have been involved heavily in formulating different parts of the green deal, and that work is ongoing. I have not seen the particular research she mentions, but we have certainly had involvement from Which?, Citizens Advice and Consumer Focus, as well as from sophisticated investors and institutions in the City of London. I do not expect offers to appear until October next year, and it is most unlikely that ambitious new entrants in the market will declare their hand so far in advance: they will wait to see how the market shapes up and look at their competitors before revealing their offers. That is my expectation, which is based on observing what else happens in the market, rather than on what stakeholders have said to me at DECC.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gregory Barker]

I shall give way to the hon. Lady, but then I really do need to make some progress so that we can get on to other parts of the Bill.

[Luciana Berger]

I am grateful to the Minister for stating the developments for those customers who have the same energy provider for their electricity and gas supply. He says there are 14.8 million of them, but my question, which came up in Committee, is about those customers who have different providers for electricity and for gas. What will happen to them? How will they be able to measure the savings across their two bills? My conversations with many energy providers tell me that their systems do not currently speak to each other, and that to make them to do so would cost a great deal.

[Gregory Barker]

There will be access to the energy annual statement, which will make that crystal clear.

Energy suppliers are already prohibited from disconnecting households in the winter months when they know or have reason to believe that the customer is a pensioner or lives with pensioners or with those under 18 years old. We plan to extend those protections to the non-payment of green deal charges.

We have had a very good debate. I have commented on the green investment bank to make clear the Government’s views on what appropriate interventions for the green investment bank would be. Although we understand the intention behind new clause 8, we will not support it. I hope that the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion is reassured by my explanation and will not press her amendments 26, 27, 49 and 50 or new clause 8; and that the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington and my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole are similarly reassured on amendment 28. I hope also that the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington found my explanation regarding amendment 45 equally compelling and will not press that, either. I urge the House to support Government amendments 29 to 34 and 36 and new clause 10.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 10 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 11

Agreement about modifying decommissioning programme

‘(1) Section 46 of the Energy Act 2008 (approval of a decommissioning programme) is amended as follows.

(2) After subsection (3) insert—

“(3A) When approving a programme the Secretary of State may agree to exercise, or not to exercise, the section 48 power—

(a) in a particular manner;

(b) within a particular period.

(3B) An agreement under subsection (3A) may subsequently be amended by the Secretary of State and the other party to the agreement.

(3C) The Secretary of State may not make such an agreement or amend such an agreement unless satisfied that the agreement (or the agreement as amended) includes adequate provision for the modification of the programme in the event that the provision made by it for the technical matters (including the financing of the designated technical matters) ceases to be prudent.

(3D) Provision in such an agreement (including the provision mentioned in subsection (3C)) may include provision—

(a) for a determination by a third party in relation to a relevant matter specified in the agreement, and

(b) for the Secretary of State to be bound by such a determination.

(3E) A “relevant matter” is a matter relating to the provision made by the programme for the technical matters.

(3F) Subsections (3A) to (3D) apply notwithstanding that the agreement or amendment fetters the Secretary of State’s discretion.

(3G) In subsection (3A) “section 48 power” means the power of the Secretary of State under section 48 to propose a modification of the programme or a modification of the conditions to which the approval of the programme is subject.”

(3) In subsection (4) for “(3)” substitute “(3B)”.’.—(Charles Hendry.)

Brought up, and read the First time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gregory Barker]

I am very happy to do so. Indeed, I am sure that Members will have further ideas on how to build up the advice that we give local authorities. Given that it will go to councils of every political party, it is important that it is seen to be thoroughly objective, so a sense of co-ownership would indeed be very helpful.

New clauses 7 and 18 and amendment 24 deal with the ECO and fuel poverty. The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas), who tabled new clause 7, may recall what I said in Committee in response to a similar amendment: that the Treasury is responsible for the allocation of public funds. Putting a duty on the Secretary of State to report on potential uses of central Government revenues would, I am afraid, conflict with the Treasury’s responsibility. I assure her, however, that the Government are taking great care to ensure that their policies in the round will be up to the task of delivering our climate change and fuel poverty objectives. The ECO is a key part of this, and we will make sure that it has the right level of ambition to achieve our goals without putting an unduly heavy or inequitable burden on energy bills. On that basis, I hope that the hon. Lady will not press the amendment.

Amendment 24, tabled by the hon. Members for Liverpool, Wavertree and for Ogmore, and new clause 18, tabled by the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion, focus on data sharing. Although I understand the intent of the proposal, we do not need it now because the existing warm home discount scheme will provide the six major energy suppliers with the details of more than 600,000 older poorer pensioners this winter and information on thousands of further customers over each of the three subsequent years. That information will be used to provide a £120 rebate this winter to those customers, but it can also be used to provide the customers with additional advice, including information about the ECO. Additional powers for further data sharing are therefore not necessary at this time.

The forthcoming ECO consultation will report on the likely impacts of the policy, as will the accompanying impact assessment. The type of statutory duty that amendment 24 would introduce is not necessary for the purpose of showing the intended impact that the ECO will have on fuel poverty and the energy efficiency of properties. I can therefore assure the hon. Members for Liverpool, Wavertree and for Ogmore that the intentions of the amendment are already met in full.

Amendments 2 to 8, 19, 47 and 48 deal with the private rented sector provisions. These were tabled by the right hon. Member for Berwick-upon-Tweed (Sir Alan Beith), the hon. Members for Manchester, Withington (Mr Leech), for Brighton, Pavilion, for Leeds North West (Greg Mulholland), for Foyle (Mark Durkan), for Liverpool, Wavertree and for Ogmore, and my hon. Friend the Member for Hove (Mike Weatherley). Amendments 6, 7, 19, 47 and 48 relate to timing issues, and I will consider those first, albeit briefly.

As we debated in Committee, we are providing landlords with a firm legislative position. The tenants’ energy efficiency regulations must come into force no later than 1 April 2016. Under those regulations, tenants will be able to ask for consent from their landlord to make relevant energy efficiency improvements such as those funded under the green deal or ECO, and their requests cannot be unreasonably refused. Amendments 7 and 48 propose that the regulations on tenants’ right to request should be introduced sooner, but as well as regulatory certainty, we need to provide landlords with a reasonable period in which to prepare and get up to speed with the regulations. The dates we have chosen strike a balance between pursuing greater energy efficiency benefits and giving landlords time to prepare.

I draw the House’s attention to the latest survey, published this week, which clearly shows that two thirds of landlords are keen to act and take up the green deal, and that only a relatively small minority—fewer than 20%—are dragging their feet. There are grounds to be optimistic that landlords are not resisting this agenda. We have set the dates of 2016 and, as a backstop, 2018, but I cannot reiterate strongly enough—

[Luciana Berger]

rose—

[Gregory Barker]

I will not give way, because I have to get through these points.

The backstop is 2018—the point at which we must cross the finishing line. Clearly, in the five years to 2018, from the point at which the green deal goes live, it will be up to the Government to monitor progress in the private rented sector. If we see that there is not a significant glide path towards being able to complete by 2018, it remains to us to take further measures and actions, and we will. [Interruption.] If the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner) had been in the Committee, he would know that we will have available an improved online register that is much better than the existing data facilities. We will have the information, we will monitor it carefully, and we certainly see the 2018 date as the end line and reserve the right to introduce new powers, measures, regulations and incentives to drive uptake if we do not see it happening.

Amendment 4 considers the implementation of the minimum standard. The principle behind the amendment is that all F and G-rated properties should be brought up to the minimum standard, regardless of how much of the work can be funded through the green deal. However, the regulations come with safeguards. We do not want our regulations to have an adverse impact on the supply of properties in the private rented sector. For that reason, we remain committed to ensuring that there are no up-front costs for landlords. Landlords will either have to reach an E rating or carry out the maximum package of measures funded under the green deal and the ECO, even if that does not take them above an F rating.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) raised a very important point. The Government hear and share the concerns that he expressed so eloquently. We were so concerned by the problems in the domestic heating oil sector last winter that the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, my hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), asked the Office of Fair Trading to undertake an urgent assessment of the whole off-grid sector. I am pleased to say that it has already taken action to ensure that price comparison websites are genuinely independent. We look forward to its final report next month so that we can see what further steps may be necessary ahead of this winter and ensure that there is proper and effective competition in this important sector, where customers consistently get a very raw deal. The Minister of State is absolutely determined to drive home the agenda that my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham articulated so well.

I turn now to the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) and his new clause 19. This is an area in which he has considerable knowledge and I place on record my thanks to him for taking up the challenge of chairing the consumer billing stakeholder group, which has provided invaluable advice to the Government and has helped to drive forward the aim enshrined in clause 74 of providing consumers with additional information about their suppliers’ cheaper tariffs. My hon. Friend makes the good point that we should seek to provide consumers with helpful, clear information at the earliest opportunity, and that we should build on that through research informed by consumer groups and consumer responses. His new clause would put a set of specific implementation actions in the Bill.

As my hon. Friend is aware, because he has been essential to the steps that the Department is taking, we are on exactly the same page as him on identifying what needs to be done to give the consumer the best possible information. This winter we are doing what can reasonably be achieved, with a clear signpost on bills that will start going out in the next few weeks. There will then be an urgent communication—a letter in most cases—advising consumers of the advantages of switching. I greatly welcome the suggestion that that campaign be backed by consumer groups such as Which? and Consumer Focus to encourage a better take-up than sometimes results from similar mail. We are awaiting the recommendations of the retail market review. If we judge that it does not go far enough, we will look to go further and we have the back-stop of being able to legislate. I have conveyed clearly to the energy companies what we expect and that we will not hesitate to legislate if they do not come to a voluntary agreement.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 7th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

I simply do not accept the hon. Gentleman’s comments. I have absolute trust in my Department, and the suggestion that there has been some Fukushima cover-up is absurd nonsense.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Far from being a champion of community energy projects, the Government seem to be intent on punishing them. In June the Minister cut feed-in tariff funding for schemes generating more than 50 kW. The Secretary of State said a moment ago that he wanted to make feed-in tariffs affordable, but cutting them for medium-scale school, hospital and community projects makes them unviable.

The Minister is aware that we disagree fundamentally with his decision, and our view is shared by the solar industry. Howard Johns, chairman of the Solar Trade Association, has said that the move would cripple the UK’s fledgling solar panel industry, adding:

“Crushing solar makes zero economic sense for UK plc because it will lose us major manufacturing opportunities, jobs and global competitiveness.”

This is yet another example of Government policy damaging our economy and cutting support for industry, rather than generating jobs and growth. Will the Minister admit that he got it wrong, and that he should think again?

[Gregory Barker]

The people who got it wrong were the people in the Labour party who were in government and created this programme. They know full well that the model was fundamentally not fit for purpose. The hon. Lady and her Front-Bench colleague, the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier), decline to name a figure, but how much more money would they pump into a scheme that would be paid for from people’s bills?

If we had left the scheme unreformed, more than £3 billion would have been added to the cost in the form of high subsidies. We are committed to rolling out solar energy, which is a dynamic technology of the future, but we must do it responsibly. We cannot do it by providing the open-cheque subsidies that would be encouraged by the irresponsible attitude of Opposition Front-Benchers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gregory Barker]

The right hon. Lady is right. Unfortunately, the programmes we had under the previous Government were ineffective, particularly in London. We are transforming that with the green deal and the energy company obligation and we shall certainly ensure that the roll-out of energy efficiency measures under the coalition is much fairer and much more ambitious than we saw under the previous Government.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Yesterday, a report by uSwitch showed that fuel poverty levels in the UK are spiralling, with 6.3 million households—almost a quarter of all UK homes—now classed as being fuel poor. That highlights the urgent need for energy-efficiency improvements coupled with support from Government. However, in the past year the Government have systematically scrapped support for fuel poor households. We have seen Labour’s Warm Front scheme cut, winter fuel payments reduced by up to £100 and the rejection of many Energy Bill amendments that would have provided extra support to—

[Luciana Berger]

Will the Minister tell us how he will get a grip on this out-of-control fuel poverty situation?

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. She will know that under the final five years of the Labour Government, the number of those in fuel poverty rose from 1.5 million to more than 4 million—an absolutely catastrophic record bequeathed to the coalition. We will turn that around with the most ambitious energy-efficiency programme since the second world war and a far more effective way of delivering help to the fuel poor.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 19th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important point. As I also sit on the Cabinet Office’s Public Health Sub-Committee, I am very aware of the issue he raises. That is why we are absolutely clear that the ECO must be focused on the fuel-poor and hard-to-treat homes and why we must have an impact on exactly the statistic that he mentions in relation to his constituency.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

We have just heard twice from the Minister that the ECO will be used specifically to tackle hard-to-treat homes and fuel poverty, but unfortunately this week we have heard worrying rumours that the ECO will not be used exclusively to tackle fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes. Consumer Focus recently estimated that to tackle just over a third of non-cavity-wall homes in the UK would require an ECO investment of more than £7 billion. That underlines the scale of the challenge that the ECO needs to meet. Will the Minister guarantee today that the ECO will be used only to tackle fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes and not to subsidise banks providing green deal finance?

[Gregory Barker]

I do not think I could be clearer than to say that the focus of this new measure, unlike the CERT programme brought in by the previous Government, which we had to reform considerably when we came to office, will be on fuel poverty and hard-to-treat homes. We are absolutely clear about that and the measure is going to be much more effective than any measure that the Labour party introduced.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 24th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. Obviously, this policy is primarily led by the Treasury, but I did have a good discussion with Pilkington on exactly this matter only last week. We will continue to look at it.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

I was very interested to hear the Minister’s response on the green deal. As yet, we have seen no targets in the Energy Bill and nothing to link it to the Climate Change Act 2008 so that it can create a tangible emission reduction. Yesterday, we heard the Chancellor talk up the green deal in the Budget, but not so loud was his announcement on page 117 of the plan for growth that the Government have scrapped the requirement for new homes to be truly zero carbon. Does the Minister agree with WWF, which said that this announcement of the destruction of the policy sweeps away

“years of work and ambition”?

What representations did he make to his colleagues in the Department for Communities and Local Government and the Treasury before the decision was made?

[Gregory Barker]

This is a DCLG lead, but there should be no doubt about our commitment to the transformation of the housing stock. We know that the Opposition are still addicted to targets, but the difference is that the Government are addicted to real progress and to transformational change. They can carry on creating new targets and we will get on with making real changes in real life.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 10th February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

My hon. Friend is one of the House’s leading experts on this issue. It is complex and the answers are not easy. He has submitted information to my Department, which has been extremely valuable. We are determined to get this right and I would be delighted to meet him in the Department.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

We welcome the Government’s proposals requiring energy suppliers to display the cheapest tariff information on their bills. It is a positive first step, but more needs to be done to ensure that consumers get a fair deal from their energy companies. Given that the Government are scrapping the energy watchdog Consumer Focus, which last year uncovered that one energy supplier had overcharged about 1.8 million customers, it is fair to say that the Government have a lot of work to do to be considered a champion of the consumer.

Will the Minister commit to going further? Will he examine what can be done to help vulnerable households that pay a poverty premium because they cannot access cheaper payment methods such as direct debit or because they use a pre-payment meter, to ensure that they get the best deal possible from their energy supplier?

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Lady makes some valid points in a sensible way. She is right to say that we need to do a lot more to help the poorest. There is a debate about rising block tariffs, but they, too, can have perverse consequences. We are determined to simplify the tariffs system, and I would like to do that on the basis of consensus. If she would like to contribute to the thinking, I invite her to meet me and share her ideas.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 16th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

Over the next couple of years, we will be transitioning to the green deal. The fact of the matter is that Warm Front per se was not up to the scale of the challenge of renewing and refurbishing our homes in Britain. If we were to rely on Warm Front, at that rate of progress it would take 82 years to refurbish the 14 million homes we need to refurbish. We are going for a much more ambitious scheme—the green deal. It will be a real game changer and we shall introduce measures in legislation in the other place before Christmas.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

The last time I questioned the Minister, he said that we really have to attack fuel poverty. National Energy Action recently forecast that fuel poverty is set to rise to 5.5 million households next year, the highest level for 15 years. That is one in five homes, yet yesterday we learned that this year’s money for Warm Front—a key weapon in tackling fuel poverty—has run out. This morning, we have heard about reviews, but with the bitterly cold weather, rising energy bills and the warm homes discount not due to kick in until next year, what are the Government actually doing now to attack fuel poverty?

[Gregory Barker]

The hon. Lady raises a very important point, but as I just said to her hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), Warm Front—the key weapon under the previous Government—signally failed. Under the previous Government, we saw fuel poverty more than double; it rose from 2.5 million in 2005 to 4.5 million now. Warm Front signally failed; we need to be far more ambitious. The green deal will be the game changer, and it will bring in billions of pounds. As for now, we inherited a Warm Front waiting time for installations of between three and six months. Anyone requiring heating to cope with the cold weather now cannot rely on Warm Front, and I am afraid they never have been able to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Thursday 11th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

We are looking very carefully to ensure that our proposals for the RHI and social price support particularly take into account the needs of off-grid customers and the fuel poor. The green deal will take particular account of those in hard-to-treat homes, which are often older houses in rural areas.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Age UK estimates that more than 3.5 million older people across the UK live in fuel poverty, and every year more than 30,000 older people die from preventable causes over the winter months—a tragedy that we should do all we can to prevent. I have spoken to Age UK about the Government’s plan to phase out the Warm Front scheme and replace it with the green deal. Warm Front has so far brought 21st-century heating to more than 2 million households. Age UK is concerned that key components of the Warm Front scheme, including boiler replacements, will not be covered under the green deal. As another cold winter takes hold, has the Minister spoken to Age UK about its concerns, and can he guarantee that the green deal will be fair and will not leave millions of elderly people abandoned in their own homes, living in fuel poverty?

[Gregory Barker]

I can certainly guarantee, regarding the green deal, that fairness will be at the very heart of this exciting new proposition. In fact, the hon. Lady underestimates the number of fuel poor. Our departmental figures show that there are probably more than 4 million households living in fuel poverty, and that is a direct legacy of the Government whom she supported. Fuel poverty has been rising, year on year, and it did so right the way through the previous Parliament. It is a scandal that despite setting the target for 2016, the trajectory was going the wrong way. We need a game changer; we have to start again. We have to really attack fuel poverty, but we need new ambition, and we are bringing forward radical reforms to ensure that the delivery matches the rhetoric.

Energy Efficiency

Debate between Luciana Berger and Lord Barker of Battle

Wednesday 30th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Gregory Barker]

It is targeted at all people with children—that is, at all households where there are young children and where income is low. I would be happy to write to the hon. Gentleman with further details. We will need to bring these measures to the House, and perhaps we could debate that point then.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister kindly let us know whether it will extend to pensioners as well?

[Gregory Barker]

Yes indeed. I think I mentioned pensioners in my speech and I can give the hon. Lady that assurance.