Armed Forces: Autonomous Weapon Systems

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I cannot answer the first part of the noble Lord’s question, but I will write to him about that. As I said in my original Answer, these issues are very carefully considered, and what the noble Lord suggested is unlikely to happen.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, the Minister slightly confused me with one of his answers. Will he confirm that for anti-missile, close range anti-aircraft, and anti-torpedo reaction systems, there is considerable merit in going for an autonomous system, even if it has a manual override? From what he said it sounds as though we are not continuing to develop that capability. Is that correct?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, in essence, an automatic system reacts to a limited number of external stimuli in the same way each time, just as automatic transmission changes gears when a car gets to a certain speed. Fully autonomous systems rely on a certain level of artificial intelligence for making high-level decisions from a very complex environmental input, the result of which might not be fully predictable at a very detailed level. However, let us be absolutely clear that the operation of weapons systems will always—always—be under human control.

Armed Forces: Pay

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I said that the decision is in line with the Commissioner for Public Appointments’ Code of Practice for Ministerial Appointments to Public Bodies. The Government believe that the habit of automatically renewing those appointments has to stop. We need to bring fresh blood into jobs such as these.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on the Government’s decision to send HMS “Daring” to Australia for the centenary of the Australian Navy. That leaves us with 18 escorts for the rest of the world. Does not the Minister agree that 18 is far too few and that we need to get going on the order for the Type 26 ship?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord has used great imagination to bring HMS “Daring” into this Question. I have been preparing for the X-factor this afternoon, not HMS “Daring”.

Armed Forces: Redundancies

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. We prepare for events, and we are confident that we can handle most things that are thrown at us. Certainly, the National Security Council is meeting as we speak and considering the situation in Mali. I am confident that we can prepare for any eventuality.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, did the National Security Council review the strategic defence and security review 2010 in the light of the Arab awakening, the Libya crisis et cetera? If it did, did it then agree that there should be a further £1.3 billion cut in the defence budget, which is, in fact, what has happened?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, it is my understanding that the National Security Council meets on a very regular basis and considers every eventuality, but it is not for it to decide the cuts. They are a matter for the Treasury.

Armed Forces: Future Size

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Tuesday 8th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Empey, for raising this debate. It is very pertinent. I apologise for not having put my name on the list of speakers. I was more focused on my Christmas festivities than on knowing what the business of the House was, but I felt it was very important to speak.

I will speak very briefly on the aircraft carriers—otherwise people might think that I am a one-trick pony on that. The Government have begun to get their mind around that and understand the importance of them. They are something that we should be really proud of, rather in the sense that we were proud of the Olympic work, employing some 20,000 people across the UK, building these amazing ships. The Government have made it quite clear—certainly the Secretary of State did in a conference I was at—that they intend running both of them. Yes, there have been a lot of problems. Yes, there have been issues about what aircraft they will have; we now know what aircraft they will have. I am glad that the Government are getting to grips with that.

However, I believe that our nation is standing into danger. Since I joined the Royal Navy 48 years ago, our military has suffered a steady attrition in size and resources. That has happened year on year in all my 48 years in the Navy. The 2010 strategic defence and security review is, I believe, the straw that has almost broken the camel’s back, but a further £1.3 billion has been taken from the defence budget.

Our military is not now capable of what the people of our nation expect of it. If Ministers think that it is, I fear that they are deluded. The international developments in the Middle East—the Arab spring was referred to as the basis of this debate—are just one example of what a chaotic, unpredictable and dangerous world we are in. At the time of the 2010 SDSR, a number of us—some of whom are in the Chamber tonight—pointed out that the cost-driven exercise took no account of strategic shock. The events in Libya and Syria have proved the point. The noble Lord, Lord Palmer, asked: where will the next one be? We have no idea what the next crisis might be. That is why we need capable Armed Forces. As an aside, Libya was a minor operation, but we could not have done it without the United States. I would strongly advise that we do not get involved militarily in Syria.

I come back to defence spending, because that is what I want to focus on. It is complacent and, I believe, shows a lack of understanding, to parrot the fact that our defence spending is the fourth highest in the world, as if that answers criticism that it is too small. First, figures can be very misleading, as many nations, as I know from my time as chief of defence intelligence, hide what we see as defence spending in lots of other areas, so it is sometimes difficult to know what they are actually spending.

Even if we are in the top six, so we should be. We are the fifth or sixth richest country in the world; we are a permanent member of the Security Council. Unlike many nations, we have a responsibility for 14 dependencies world wide. The Government recently reiterated our responsibility for defence of those dependencies. We run global shipping from London, the sinews that hold the global trading village together and are a huge earner for this nation. We are the largest European investor in South Asia, South-East Asia, Australasia and key parts of the Pacific Rim. Global stability is crucial to our investments and our nation’s wealth and security.

I share in the congratulations to the Minister, because he has been very good about briefing us in this House on defence issues, but he will, because he must as a Minister, no doubt talk about balancing the defence budget. Yes, the MoD equipment programme was overheated—there is no doubt about that—but talking about a balanced budget is sophistry. Future Force 2020, the headmark for the SDSR—

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I apologise for interrupting, but the noble Lord will be aware that speakers in the gap have a limit of four minutes.

[Lord West of Spithead]

I am aware of that.

Future Force 2020, the headmark for the SDSR, required a 1% increase in defence spending year on year from 2015-16. The Treasury has allowed only a 1% increase in the procurement budget. Therefore, the programme is underfunded; and therefore it is not balanced. The cuts so far have led to an underspend of £1.3 million, and they are being taken from money that has been voted by Parliament for defence. If, as David Cameron has argued, defence is the highest priority, we must increase defence spending, even if it means cutting other departments’ budgets. Certainly, involvement in any more foreign adventures without that commitment could be catastrophic. I repeat: our nation is standing into danger unless we increase defence spending as a matter of urgency.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Astor of Hever)]

My Lords, I, too, am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Empey, for introducing this timely debate. It is clear that on all sides of the House we share respect for the determination, professionalism and bravery of our Armed Forces.

The noble Lord is correct that the welfare needs of our service personnel are, and will remain, a key priority—a duty that we extend to our veterans as well. The Armed Forces have long-standing structures in place to support service families, including welfare officers, trained social workers and other specialists. Under the Armed Forces covenant, the Government have made good progress on improving the care that we provide—for example, by doubling council tax relief to £600 per six-month deployment and ensuring that Armed Forces compensation scheme payments are excluded from means-tested social benefits.

There is much that we are doing with regard to veterans. The Armed Forces mental health strategy enables the co-ordination of policy, and focuses efforts and resources where they are most needed. We have also ensured that veterans will be given priority treatment on the NHS for all service-related conditions.

We work hard to ensure that our service personnel transition smoothly back to civilian employment. All personnel are entitled to assistance through this process. The single services, in partnership with Right Management, work with service leaders to deliver a range of practical assistance, including training and assistance with recruitment. My noble friend Lord Ashcroft, the Prime Minister’s special representative for veterans’ transition, will be reviewing current processes, and we look forward to his recommendations.

The noble Lord, Lord Empey, made reference to the annual report on the Armed Forces covenant, which was notified to Parliament last month by means of a Written Ministerial Statement. I warmly welcome the interest in this House in the Armed Forces covenant, and would welcome the chance to debate it should the opportunity arise.

The noble Lord also asked whether Armed Forces advocates had been appointed from all parts of the United Kingdom. I can confirm that there are now Armed Forces advocates in the devolved authorities of Wales and Scotland. Both Wales and Scotland have produced their own commitment papers on how they will implement the covenant, as well as contributing to the Secretary of State’s statutory report. An Armed Forces advocate has not been appointed by the Northern Ireland Executive, as their strict equalities legislation means that implementation of the covenant is more complicated.

Additionally, many local authorities in England, Wales and Scotland have appointed local Armed Forces advocates or champions as part of their commitment to the community covenant, working with local communities to improve access to services and support for serving and ex-service men and women and their families. Relevant UK government departments also have Armed Forces advocates, all of whom are represented on the Covenant Reference Group and are responsible for making sure that their departmental policies uphold the principles of the covenant.

As the noble Lord explained, we live in an uncertain world. As such, we need to ensure we have the capabilities to adapt and address a very broad range of challenges. The NSS and the SDSR made a number of strategic choices: to support the deficit reduction programme; to seek to maintain the UK’s international profile; and to honour our operational commitments in Afghanistan. They remain at the heart of this Government’s approach to foreign, defence and national resilience policies. The NSS also acknowledged the uncertainty of the future strategic environment, and the SDSR responded by prioritising those capabilities across government that will allow us to adapt to changes as they happen.

The noble Lords, Lord Empey and Lord West, and my noble friend Lord Palmer all mentioned carrier strike. We will have planes. We will have the B variant of the Joint Strike Fighter—the STOVL variant—which, as the noble Lord, Lord West, knows flew very successfully off the USS “Wasp” in November 2011.

In the SDSR the Government confirmed our belief that it is correct for the United Kingdom to retain, in the long-term, a carrier-strike capability. In the short term, however, there are few circumstances we can envisage where the ability to deploy air power from the sea will be essential. That is why we reluctantly took the decision to retire the Harriers and Invincible-class carriers before the new carriers become operational. We did not take this decision lightly, but did so mindful of the current strategic context in which we live. The decision on the second carrier will be one for the next SDSR after the general election.

The Middle East remains a significant source of instability. One immediate risk, as noble Lords said—

[Lord West of Spithead]

Just on a point of clarity, the Secretary of State said that it was an aspiration of this Government that they would run two carriers although the final decision had not been made. Is that the correct decision?

Armed Forces: Medical Services

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, several initiatives are under way to remove duplication by the single services’ medical services. The first, scheduled to be delivered on 1 April next year, is the new defence primary healthcare project. The current Royal Navy, Army and Air Force primary healthcare systems will start to combine to form defence primary healthcare under the command of a two-star medical officer. The aim is to develop and create an organisation made up of Royal Navy, Army, Royal Air Force and civilian medical personnel working jointly to benefit all the patients they serve, to safeguard the quality of healthcare for military personnel, their dependents and entitled civilians, and to maximise the forces’ generation capabilities.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I agree with the Minister about the huge pride we have in our medical forces across the board. Not only are they at the cutting edge of skills to look after people who, very sadly, have suffered major injuries, but they have also shown immense bravery. Indeed, two women who are probably about half my height have managed to win Military Crosses in the past three years in looking after people for whom they were responsible. We should feel a huge debt of gratitude and pride in them all for that. We also have an amazing centre of skill at Birmingham and at Headley Court in terms of people recovering. Will the Minister tell us what will happen if Scotland separates? Bearing in mind the complexity of how this works, it will be extremely difficult. How will that work out?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord in the first part of his question. I have seen a number of these reservists and regulars several times in the hospital at Camp Bastion. I am in awe of what they do and the lives they save—it is amazing work. In answer to the noble Lord’s second question, we do not envisage that this is going to happen.

Future Reserves 2020

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I join my noble friend in the tributes to the two servicemen he mentioned. Like him, I am in awe of the work that the Special Boat Service does. I compliment my noble friend on all the work that he does for the SBS Association. He asked me about incentives for regulars to become reservists. All three services are working to make it as quick and easy as possible for individuals leaving the Regular Forces to join the reserves. This includes simplifying administrative processes, examining the use of incentives and ensuring coherent communications so that individuals who are leaving the Regular Forces, or have left, are aware of the opportunities that exist in the reserves, should they choose to enlist. No decisions have yet been made on the shape of any incentives.

The Armed Forces covenant seeks to ensure that service personnel are not disadvantaged as a result of their service. The covenant recognises reservists. Obligations for reservists very rarely constitute a problem. On the previous occasion I was in Afghanistan I met a number of reservists and regulars. All the regulars to whom I spoke said that reservists were just the same as them—they were not treated differently and mucked in just the same as everyone else. However, obviously, once a reservist is mobilised, he is under military law the same as a regular.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I apologise for not being here at the beginning of the Statement. I ran to get here but I am not as fast as I was when I was a young officer. I welcome the thrust of what the Government are doing but share the very real concerns I have heard relating to commerce, industry and various firms. I would like to ask a couple of questions. Given the contents of the Green Paper, will there be full and comprehensive meetings with various firms and no coercive legislation to make firms provide reservists, as I think that would be extremely counterproductive?

My other point concerns the cost of reservists. I have had a lot to do with the Americans in this regard. Reservists are not as cheap as one might think when one starts using them regularly. I hope the Government will look very carefully at this because reservists can often cost more than regulars. If that is the case, perhaps it is better to use regulars.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a good point. Our relationship with employers is obviously key to this. The Green Paper sets out a series of questions to employers which will help us to chart the way forward. I very much hope that the noble Lord will contribute to this process, particularly any thoughts he has on the United States example that he mentioned. In addition to the Green Paper, we will host a number of national and regional events to discuss specific issues with public sector and private sector employers. The closing date for this consultation is, from memory, 18 January next year.

Armed Forces: Olympic and Paralympic Games 2012

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I entirely agree with my noble friend on his second point. It is a very good example of volunteering. As for my noble friend’s first point, the feedback from the public has been extremely positive. Many people have expressed their gratitude to the members of the Armed Forces who made the Games such a resounding success. Indeed, at the Ministry of Defence we have received many letters that praised the professionalism, effort and huge contribution from the Armed Forces.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that this highlights the dangers of privatisation in certain areas that are fundamental to UK security? Does he not believe that the GOCO arrangements for the defence equipment and support areas might put us in a position where a failure by private enterprise actually puts service personnel and the security of the nation at risk?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I do not want to be tempted by the noble Lord to go down that route. We will be able to debate that when we get to that point.

Armed Forces: Military Corrective Training Centre

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Wednesday 25th July 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I am grateful for the positive response from my noble friend. The programme of educational courses and military training that detainees undertake reinvigorates them with the military ethos. On return to their units, the vast majority go on to achieve promotion and to have a successful military career. Direct comparison with the civil sector is difficult because those in Her Majesty’s Prison Service have committed criminal offences, while the majority of those at MCTC have committed non-criminal conduct offences. However, last year 13% of detainees at MCTC had previously served periods of detention whereas some 90% of those sentenced in England and Wales in Her Majesty’s Prison Service had offended before.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that the statistics are even better than that because quite a lot of people sent to Colchester serve time there and are then sent for discharge, so of those who are able to go back the percentage is even higher?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very good point. Indeed, the latest report from Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons is exceptionally positive and has graded the centre as good for its four tests of a healthy custodial environment: safety, respect, purposeful activity and resettlement—something that it very rarely does.

Armed Forces: Discrimination

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Wednesday 27th June 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, my noble friend makes a very good point. The problem exists not just in the present but in the future. I entirely agree with him.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, the worst discrimination I ever suffered was shortly after meeting my wife, when she told me that the two most useless things in a sailing boat are an umbrella and a naval officer. Joking aside, the Minister referred to education. We need to educate young people about the importance of the services and one of the best ways of doing that is the cadet forces. Are we going to put more effort into getting CCF and other units into a broader spectrum of schools to try to encourage this?

[Lord Astor of Hever]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that question. The answer is yes, we are working very hard on that and we may have more to say on the issue in the days to come.

Defence Budget

Lord West of Spithead Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, after 25 years of serving at sea and then serving in the madhouse—I am sorry, I should have said the MoD—I share the view of the noble Lord, Lord King, and the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, about the difficulties associated with contracts. I worry that it is not that easy to stay within costs, and there is an awful lot of smoke and mirrors as well. I hope that the projections are true, but I have real doubts about them. I also share the view that defence is so important for the nation that we should try wherever possible to be cross-party in our approach to it.

Looking at the 10-year timeline for PR12, am I right in assuming that the money for the replacement of the V class submarines, which will be coming to its big spend at the end of that period, is being allowed for in the figures that have been given in this Statement? This morning, at the EIS summit, the right honourable Member for Runnymede and Weybridge spoke very strongly about the need for deterrence.

[Lord Astor of Hever]

My Lords, I can assure the noble Lord that we have a new team in the MoD who, as I have seen with my own eyes, are absolutely on top of this issue and will do their very best to make sure that this plan is properly carried out. On submarines, as confirmed in the SDSR, the MoD is committed to delivering seven Astute-class submarines, at a cost of approximately £10 million. In order for the UK to continue as a nuclear power, the MoD is committed to delivering continuous at-sea deterrent. The MoD has started the £3 billion assessment phase for the £25 billion successor programme to deliver long-term CASD.