Armed Forces (Flexible Working) Bill [HL]

Lord Touhig Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 11th July 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, this is, as the Minister says, a small Bill, but one that has the potential to make far-reaching improvements to the quality of life of our service men and women while also having consequences for the operational capability of our Armed Forces. On the face of it, it appears to be modern, innovative and in line with employment practices seen in much of business and industry today. It follows the commitment in SDSR 2015:

“We will ensure that a career in the Armed Forces can be balanced better with family life”.


One has only to read the 2017 Armed Forces continuous attitude survey, which lists the top five reasons why service personnel leave, to find that number one is the impact of service life on family and personal life. Some 62% of those surveyed listed this as the main reason, although I would add that 43% also blamed poor service morale.

At this stage, the jury is out as to whether the Bill is likely to change those statistics at all. In SDSR 2015, the Government said:

“We will make the changes necessary to enable our Armed Forces to work flexibly, reflecting the realities of modern life”.


The question that the Bill must answer is simple: will it do that? I, for one, have serious doubts and concerns that it will not.

In my innocence, when I read SDSR 2015, I envisaged flexible working practices similar to the flexible working that we see in much of the public and private sector, but the Bill is far removed from that. Flexitime working means that employers and employees have an arrangement to work in such a way that the full complement of hours is put in by the employee, but the hourly work pattern can be varied to suit the employee’s needs. This measure proposes no such arrangement, because those granted flexible working will have pay deductions and their pensions reduced. Indeed, the example given on pages 4 and 5 of the paper headed “Policy and Scope” states that,

“a Service person who chose to reduce their commitment from 100% to 60% of a full-time equivalent would see a 40% reduction in their salary … A regular who dials down”—

that is a lovely term—

“their commitment will see their pension pot for that period proportionally reduced”.

When I read that, I wondered if we are all in the same world—the real world. How many service men and women, who have endured 1% pay rises for some years, could take a pay cut of 40% to gain some flexible working?

We were told in yesterday’s very helpful briefing—I thank the noble Earl, as usual, for arranging these excellent briefings—that the Ministry of Defence did not expect a great many personnel to take up this new flexible working offer. In those circumstances, small wonder. What assessment has been made of the number expected to take up the offer? Can he give us figures for each year, say, for the coming five years? How much does the Ministry of Defence expect to save on its budget in that period? We were told yesterday that savings can be reinvested, so I assume some work has been done to estimate how much will be saved. Focus group surveys gauging reaction to the plan have been carried out, and another one was launched only yesterday, I believe. Will they be published before Committee?

In truth, I am left asking whether this is the seemingly benign and modern approach to flexible working as promised in SDSR 2015, or the thin end of the wedge and the first step towards zero-hours contracts for our Armed Forces. Is it all about saving money on an already overstretched defence budget? There is agreement across this House that more needs to be spent.

The policy and scope document confirms what most noble Lords know: personnel unable to meet unlimited military commitments for periods of time leave the services. The loss of their knowledge, skills and experience impacts on operational capability and increases defence costs. Has this been measured? How many skilled personnel left the services, say, last year? Further, what skills have we lost and what was the financial impact of losing them on the defence budget?

The same document tells us that the new policy will build on existing flexible working opportunities within the services and gives examples of late starts, early finishes, compressed hours and working from home. Can the Minister tell us more about this existing flexibility? How many personnel have availed themselves of it? Has it saved money or cost more?

In fairness, the Government deserve our support in saying that they want the services to be more representative of the people. How will that be achieved? We know there is a target to improve gender balance, but what about increasing ethnic mix and encouraging LGBT recruits? Another objective we would support is attracting and retaining people with skills that the forces may lack. Can the Minister say in which skills areas we are short of personnel at present?

We were told that future flexible working opportunities derive from the flexible engagement system project, which is part of the Armed Forces people’s programme. In Answer to a Written Question I submitted in February, the Minister said that the Government were committed to developing a new Armed Forces offer, adding:

“It will better reflect the realities of modern life and the UK’s current financial position”.


Can the Minister tell us something about this project and if it has contributed to the thinking behind the Bill?

Can the Minister also comment on the fact then when the MoD advertised for a head of the Armed Forces people’s programme, one key responsibility was,

“leading on resource planning, using innovative thinking to support project teams to deliver over £l billion of savings”.

I am sure that I am not alone in hoping this is not all about the Government cutting defence spending. I feel sure the noble Earl will want to reassure us on that again when he winds up.

Clause 1 amends Section 329 of the Armed Forces Act 2006 to enable flexible working and limited geographic employment for limited defined periods. Can the Minister explain what “limited geographic employment” means and what is meant by “limited defined periods”? Will this put a maximum limit on the number of days, weeks or months in any given period that flexible working will be allowed? The clause covers the regulations that will be needed.

Paragraph 5 of the policy and scope paper refers to the,

“existing Defence Council regulations … for terms and conditions of enlistment and service for persons enlisting, or those who have enlisted”,

and states:

“The regulations do not provide a comprehensive list of all the terms and conditions of service. Rather, they provide, for example, for the types of engagement a Regular may be enlisted to serve on, the duration of those engagement types, the ability to extend them”.


As the regulations do not provide a comprehensive list of terms and conditions, can the noble Earl assure the House that this ambiguity does not mean that the Bill will give the Ministry of Defence the power to extend the flexible time of a service man or woman against their will, or even impose flexible working when people are unwilling to take part? Can he categorically state that this flexible working will not be used to cut spending?

Paragraph 6 of the paper tells us that applications for flexible working will be considered by a “competent service authority”. Is that the headquarters level approvals board, mentioned in paragraph 7? Can he say more about the composition of this authority? Similarly, an appeal against a refusal will be considered by a “higher authority”. Is that the Defence Council? There is much more that we will want to explore in Committee.

There is one final point which I ask the Minister to comment on, or at least reflect on by Committee stage: refusal of an application. Paragraph 7(f) of the document states:

“An application is likely to be refused if personnel are at a high state of readiness to deploy to an operational theatre, or if the loss of their capability cannot be absorbed at unit level such as when serving on a ship, or in a high readiness role”.


That is perfectly reasonable and understandable, but how will the scheme affect forward planning, in particular, planning for a deployment at short notice? Service chiefs may consider that they need a particular combination of forces for an operation, only to discover because of flexible working that this is not immediately available. Again, yesterday we were told this measure would not interfere with operational continuity. I think the Minister has his work cut out on this matter, and I am sure that I am not alone in needing to be reassured and convinced.

Finally, the Bill will depend almost entirely on the use of regulations to achieve its objective. The Government propose that the SIs needed will be under the negative procedure. We are opposed to this and will seek to persuade the House in favour of the affirmative procedure.

The SDSR 2015 offered the prospect that this policy would be universally welcomed and supported. Instead, we have a measure that, while seemingly offering flexibility, will in effect penalise our Armed Forces by cutting pay and pensions, forcing service men and women to choose between taking time off to care for a sick wife, child or elderly parent, or cutting their living standards—and all this parading under the guise of offering flexible working in a modern setting.

The Prime Minister today called for other parties to contribute, not simply to criticise. Yesterday, in the other place, Labour’s shadow Defence Secretary, Nia Griffith, responded positively, offering to work with the Government on improving Armed Forces pay. I, too, respond positively and tell the Minister that we on this side will work with him, other parties in this House and, most especially, noble and gallant Lords on the Cross Benches, many of whom have first-hand experience of the services. We will work with them all to reshape this Bill into one that offers genuine flexibility without cutting the pay and pensions of brave service men and women.

Armed Forces (Flexible Working) Bill [HL]

Lord Touhig Excerpts

Committee: 1st sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 12th September 2017 Grand Committee

[The Lord Bishop of Portsmouth]

My Lords, I humbly confess—your Lordships may think that seemly for a priest—that despite the weighty contributions of noble and noble and gallant Lords, I am confused about the problem apparently being raised by describing those who serve in the Armed Forces as part-time.

Of course, part-time is a slippery term that seems to relate to the actual hours of delivery so that even those of us who claim to work full-time certainly do not. Working occupies only part of our day, whether we are in the Armed Forces or we are politicians, doctors, priests or whatever. So soldiers, sailors and air force personnel have a whole-time, sometimes decades-long commitment to the security of our nation regardless of the number of hours they are working and on duty in any week or month. In the same way, my local GP practice has more doctors who work part-time than full-time, but that is no measure of their skill and competence. Surely we are long past the point when part-time might suggest second rate. My surgery offers a whole-time service and capability through a blending of people working different patterns and hours.

My own clergy have a whole-life vocation. They may be called upon at any time but they minister in a variety of flexible patterns, including part-time. Part-time is well understood to be an accepted and honourable working pattern, including among those whose service and work is a vocation.

[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, we are in Committee. It is always tempting to make a Second Reading speech but I will resist that. However, before I make some brief remarks about the amendment, if the Committee will indulge me, I would like to thank the Minister and his officials for their engagement so far.

At the end of Second Reading, the Minister and I were far apart on agreeing the merits and demerits of this piece of legislation. Indeed, he said that my remarks were,

“sceptical bordering on the cynical”.—[Official Report, 11/7/17; col. 1205.]

But, as always with this Minister, he has sought to assuage my concerns and those of other noble Lords, and while I still have some reservations and share some of the concerns expressed today, especially by those with first-hand experience of command at a very high level in our Armed Forces, I am more positive about the measure now than I was at Second Reading. We have received some very useful briefings and the Minister has sought and welcomed comments, criticism and discussion. I am encouraged that he is prepared to take these issues seriously and I look forward to his response.

I am sympathetic to the amendments tabled by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley. Terminology is all-important in matters of this sort and the Minister did indicate, I believe, that we would be given more details on the current options for flexible working. The Minister has gone some way towards responding to that with the helpful papers that have been produced in the past week or so, but there is a powerful argument for putting something concrete in primary legislation, even if it is not strictly necessary because such definitions may already be covered by the Queen’s Regulations. The amendments tabled by the noble and gallant Lord are important because we need to understand the proper definitions of what we are talking about. I hope that the Government will give them the fullest consideration and, if they are not able to respond positively today, to do so on Report.

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[Baroness Jolly]

My Lords, Amendment 4 is a probing amendment. I am very grateful to the Minister and his team for the meeting that we had—it seems a very long time ago—just before we rose for the Summer Recess. We went through these issues with him. As the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, said, employment patterns are changing. The idea of joining the service man and boy—or perhaps it is girl and woman these days—seems very much a thing of the past, or at least not what is always expected. We want to understand exactly how this works and what the Government’s intentions are behind it—hence the probing nature of the amendment. We are after the what, the how, the how long and the how many.

The devil in this sort of thing is very often in the detail. We on this Bench have some concern that a lot of the detail will be in secondary legislation. I know that we will be dealing with that and I know that my noble friend Lady Smith will be dealing with those issues later. However, I would be grateful if the Minister would respond to these points—he has had the summer to look at them with his team—and then we will see how we can move forward from there.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, Amendment 6 in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Tunnicliffe relates to the powers conferred on the Defence Council by Clause 1. It is a simple but important amendment and it is one that has the full support of the House’s Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. If I may, I will echo the comments made in the Chamber last week about the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, who chaired the committee when it produced its report. We all wish her well and look forward to her speedy recovery and return to Parliament.

In its report on the Bill, the committee noted:

“These powers are conferred without any detailed provisions on the face of the Bill limiting or restricting how the powers are exercised. In the circumstances we consider that the affirmative procedure should apply”.


The timing of the Bill, with the so-called repeal Bill and its many proposed delegated powers, which was approved in the other place in the early hours of this morning, is significant. We in this House always pay attention to the granting and use of delegated powers and it is only right that if additional powers are conferred on the Defence Council or on Ministers, a proper level of parliamentary scrutiny is guaranteed.

Following meetings and discussions with the Minister, it is my understanding that the Government intend to accept that view and will either agree to this amendment or table a similar one; we will wait for the Minister to tell us. The introduction of part-time working and reforms to geographically restricted service represent fundamental changes to the terms and conditions of our Armed Forces. By ensuring appropriate scrutiny of the forthcoming regulations, the House will be fulfilling its duty to our hardworking service men and women.

Perhaps I may say a brief word about Amendment 4. We certainly do not oppose the amendment moved by the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, but much of the information it seeks is in the supporting documents that the Minister has provided. The key question that we want the Minister to answer is to assure us that this information will be put into regulations. If that is the Minister’s intention, it may not be necessary to put this provision into the Bill.

I do not know whether it is the intention of the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, to speak to his amendment, but I shall say a brief word about it because he and I discussed it last week. I agree with him that there are too many instances where legislation is passed and commencement never seems to occur. I certainly sympathise with him on that point. However, I believe that the Government have made it clear that they want this option to be available from 2019, and in those circumstances I wonder whether that might well suffice.

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[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 18 tabled in my name and to Amendment 6 which is tabled in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig. The amendments are similar. In contrast to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, we believe that it is important that Parliament should play its full role in legislation. If the Defence Council is to have new powers conferred on it, it would be appropriate to make an affirmative decision rather than use a negative instrument. The noble Lord, Lord Touhig, took the words out of my mouth. I was in this Room last week taking part in a debate about reporting on the process of Brexit. The issues being discussed included questions about the role that Parliament plays in that. The Henry VIII clauses which are in the EU withdrawal Bill cover a bigger set of issues, but the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, has asked, “If these clauses were part of a bigger Bill, would we be bothered about them?”. Perhaps not, but that is not the point. At the moment there seems to be a tendency on the part of Her Majesty’s Government to say, “If the Government have an idea, it should be accepted without any amendment or scrutiny”. It is important that your Lordships’ House and Parliament as a whole play their part in scrutinising legislation, and it is right that this should be done through the affirmative procedure.

On reports, the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, reminded us that there now is information; I am grateful to the Minister for ensuring over the summer that further information was provided regarding the sort of questions we were looking for. As my noble friend Lady Jolly said, Amendment 4 was a probing amendment, but obviously, the more information that can be given and made available to people and the more detail we have, the greater the opportunity for this to be successful.

[Lord Touhig]

Perhaps I may comment on the point made by the noble Earl, Lord Attlee. His suggestion would not be the right way. He discussed it with me last week. The Bill substantially depends on regulations to bring in its measures, and how would one decide what we would bring in the first tranche and the second tranche, and so on? Therefore everything that relates to this matter should be subject to the affirmative procedure.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, the first amendment in this group, Amendment 4, seeks to place in the Bill information to define how flexible working should be implemented. I agree that it is important that we have clarity over exactly how the new flexible working opportunities will be administered. I reassure the Committee that the policies and processes that will support the changes brought by the Bill have been designed by the services for the services. We have done a great deal of work with the services to develop policies that work for them and their people, and we will continue to refine them in the lead-up to their introduction in 2019 and after to ensure that they are clear and fit for purpose. In doing so, we will continue to consult our people.

As noble Lords will recall, I outlined at Second Reading how we envisage the new flexible working arrangements will be administered following their introduction in 2019. In my subsequent written responses to Peers, I also promised that my officials would publish some additional information over the summer that would explain in more detail how the new arrangements would work in practice. I hope that noble Lords have received that information and found it helpful, and that it has answered the points raised in this proposed amendment.

It might just be helpful if for the record I went through some of the processes that we envisage. We have a position on how we intend that flexible working arrangements will operate in practice. I am sure that noble Lords will appreciate that at this stage the detail remains subject to adjustment as a result of the ongoing policy refinement with the services, further work in the light of surveys and other feedback and, indeed, the need to account for the views of Parliament. In summary, however, the policy is intended to operate as follows.

We believe that regular service personnel must have completed their basic and professional training and a period of further service, defined by their parent service, before they can normally undertake flexible working. A serviceperson wishing to apply to serve flexibly will apply through the joint personnel administration system through their commanding officer to an approvals authority at the headquarters of their service. No limit will be imposed on the number of occasions over a period that the serviceperson will be able to apply to serve flexibly, although they will be restricted to having only one live application at a time being processed by the administration system. However, there will be limits on individual periods of flexible working to help the services manage the applications and people’s expectations.

We intend to limit periods of flexible working to no more than three years at any one time or to the end of an assignment, whichever is sooner. Within this period we intend to enable people to reduce their liability to serve by up to 40%, such as two days in a five-day working week of their regular full-time service. Service personnel requesting limits to their routine unlimited liability for separation from their home base will still remain liable for a maximum of 35 days separation in any one year. This will enable them to continue to undertake essential courses or participate in smaller periods of exercises.

We also intend to restrict the total cumulative time that a serviceperson can serve on flexible working arrangements. This is to maintain the principle that regular service is a full-time and unlimited commitment, while also helping to share the opportunities for flexible working among the broadest range of personnel. Currently we are planning for the total period of all types of flexible working to be limited to four years in a 12-year rolling period. The exact approvals process is likely to vary slightly by service and we are still designing certain elements of it. Currently we plan that the approvals authority will take decisions after being informed by the chain of command, the employing organisation—for example, if the person is working with another service—career managers, manpower planners and other specialists as required.

The principal deciding factor when considering applications will be the ability to maintain operational capability. The individual merits of each application will be considered and will include factors such as the type of role the person is serving in, whether the person has been warned to prepare to deploy for operation and, if appropriate, the personal circumstances surrounding the application. If an application is refused, an individual can appeal against the decision, as I mentioned earlier.

Appeals will be considered by a separate appeals authority which will operate at the headquarters of each service. The exact make-up of that body has yet to be set. The appeals authority will make its decisions informed by information from the employer, the employing organisation, the chain of command, career managers, manpower planners and other specialists. Service personnel will of course have the right to escalate their appeal to a service complaint if they remain unhappy with the decision.

The services will retain the right to recall regular service personnel from flexible working arrangements to ensure that operational capability is maintained while providing as much certainty of the arrangement for the individual as possible. Such recall will be against prescribed criteria sanctioned by the headquarters approvals authority within each service. Personnel will be subject to two levels of recall. The first will be immediate recall in cases of national emergency, and the second is curtailment after 90 days’ notice. The latter would apply where there is a significant change in the circumstances used to judge and approve the original agreement.

We continue to work on the detail but envisage that a change in circumstances would include a change to the requirement for operational capability which is affected by overall manning levels of the service or trade or any specific skills held by the serviceperson during the period of flexible working. Should any of these change substantially, the service would be able to issue a 90-day notice to recall the serviceperson to full duties, either by suspending the flexible working arrangements for a defined period to allow them to be adopted again later for the remainder of the originally agreed period or by cancelling the flexible working arrangement outright. Where these circumstances occur, they would constitute a manning crisis as a result of severe manning constraints, manpower shortages on specific operational tasks or skills shortages. All approvals, refusals and amendments to agreements between a serviceperson and their service will be set out in writing to avoid any uncertainty and to provide an audit trail. The detail I have just outlined has been published on the GOV.UK website.

As we intend to continue to refine the parameters of exactly how this policy will operate within the services by learning from their experience of operating it after introduction, it would be unnecessarily constraining to have the parameters proposed in the amendment set in primary legislation. The noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, made clear their view that this should all be in regulation, at least. The provisions that I have outlined will be set out in a mixture of regulation and policy statements, rather than exclusively in regulation.

The purpose of Amendments 6 and 18 is to require any new regulations made by the Defence Council of a kind to be introduced by Clause 1(2) of the Bill to come into force only following the affirmative resolution procedure. Amendment 6 looks to achieve this by inserting into Section 329 of the Armed Forces Act 2006 a new subsection (4A). However, I must tell the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, that due to the way in which the 2006 Act works, any amendments to the procedure would need to be by way of amendment to Section 373, as identified by the noble Baronesses in their Amendment 18.

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[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

My Lords, Amendment 8 is in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Jolly. This may be an appropriate moment to apologise to the Committee, rather than to the House, for my misuse of terminology. I also apologise to the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig. I have not been here a long time and I find this issue a bit confusing. I ask for noble Lords’ patience.

This amendment provides that, three years after the new arrangements come in, the Secretary of State will lay annually thereafter a report before Parliament evaluating the impact of diversity within the Armed Forces. By “diversity” we mean all protected characteristics. Diversity is about not just gender and race. In fact, the Act covers age, disability, gender assignment, marriage, civil partnership, pregnancy, maternity, race, religion, belief and sexual orientation. Although we have to be pragmatic in what realistically can be set before the House in parliamentary reports, I am trying to get to the spirit of this issue. Unless and until the Armed Forces are truly diverse, they will not make the best decisions to achieve their optimal effectiveness. Until everyone feels included, we will not have the team cohesiveness that the forces so prize, and which is so important to operational functionality in times of danger and stress.

It is also important to report on these characteristics by rank. The Minister pointed out in his letter over the summer that as the services are “base-fed” organisations, some of the improvements will take time to feed through. That is all the more reason why we should measure this as time goes on because what you do not measure you cannot change. As I understand it, the Bill lacks any mechanism to track future progress or lack of it. Therefore, we hope that the Minister will be sympathetic to this amendment.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, Amendments 10 and 11 would introduce new clauses that cover the making of an annual report on the impact of part-time service and geographic restrictions, and on the Bill’s impact on recruitment and retention. These two amendments will enable the Government and Parliament to see what impact the Bill has on this very important question.

I am sure that I am not alone in believing that we need more post-legislative scrutiny. Time and again, Parliament—with the best of intentions—passes into law Acts that have unintended consequences and fail to meet their objectives. Greater post-legislative scrutiny will lead to better lawmaking. The same principle applies here. Having served for several years on the Public Accounts Committee in the other place, I strongly believe in doing “lessons learned”. Time and again I sat through evidence sessions with the most senior civil servants, who had been made to appear before the committee to explain some major policy failure discovered by the National Audit Office. Indeed, when I served as a Minister—I am sure things have changed—I found an almost institutional objection to doing “lessons learned” among some of my officials. Our Amendment 10 is an important step in ensuring that the operation of this measure is kept under constant review and its impact reported to Parliament. It is as simple as that.

The second new clause, outlined in Amendment 11, goes to the heart of what is one of the key questions for this Bill in the first place: the impact that service life is having on service men and women and their families. The SDSR 2015 committed the Government to ensure that,

“a career in the Armed Forces can be balanced better with family life”.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, rightly pointed out that the 2017 Armed Forces continuous attitude survey, which lists the top five reasons why personnel leave the services, revealed that the number one reason was the impact of service life on family and personal life. We need to know whether this Bill has a positive impact on the quality of life of our Armed Forces, hence the need for this amendment.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, in those halcyon days when I was an Opposition Front Bench spokesman, I would have been proud to have tabled any of these amendments, something I did many times. I leave it to the Minister to say whether they are a good idea, but I draw the Committee’s attention to Amendment 15, which has not yet been spoken to, although it is in the grouping.

We need to know how many servicemen are taking advantage of these provisions, because otherwise the stats on the strength of the Armed Forces are to an extent meaningless. Perhaps the frequency of the report is too great but I would like some reassurance from the Minister that we will know, from time to time, how many members of the Armed Forces take up flexible working.

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Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

9: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—
“Protection of pay and allowances
(1) Nothing in this Act shall lead to the full-time equivalent level of remuneration provided to persons serving with a regular force being reduced.(2) In this section, “remuneration” means—(a) basic pay;(b) the x-factor allowance; and(c) any other universal payments,provided to persons serving with a regular force.”

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, at Second Reading there was much discussion of the potential consequences of the Bill on pay and benefits received by our Armed Forces. On this side we agree that it is perfectly reasonable that if somebody decides to scale down the time commitment of their job there should be an appropriate adjustment to pay and there will be consequences for pensions, but I describe that as part-time working, not flexible working. Indeed, I believe the Government also understand that and maybe agree with it. Throughout the Bill the proposed new working arrangement is referred to as part-time working. The only reference to flexible work is in the short title. However, the Minister will have heard concerns from all sides that this change could represent an attempt at cost saving or a slippery slope to forced part-time work.

In meetings the Minister has assured us that there will be no compulsion and no one will be forced into part-time or flexible working. I am certain that that is welcomed on all sides, but in our discussions the Minister explained that there was already in existence a system of flexible working which did not involve service personnel taking a pay cut. I may have misunderstood, but I understood that to be the case. I have a number of questions to ask about that existing scheme, such as how widespread is it? Is it some form of informal arrangement, varying from place to place and dependent on local interpretation, or is it codified in some way? Is the existence of such a scheme publicised in the forces?

A number of these questions have been answered in the very useful papers that the Minister has provided to us, which leads me to ask whether it is intended that this flexible working arrangement will be operated alongside the part-time working arrangement outlined by the Bill. In the case of someone who needed to take half a day every Friday for, say, the next 10 weeks to accompany a wife or partner to hospital, could this not be done under a flexible working arrangement whereby that person would make up the hours and not suffer a loss of pay? Another person may decide that he or she wants to commit to fewer hours and work part-time. That would obviously have an impact on pay and pensions.

A life in the Armed Forces can be incredibly rewarding in many ways, but it is rarely highly lucrative. The very existence of the x-factor payment demonstrates that being in the forces is not like any other job. Our amendment on pay and allowances would protect the full-time equivalent base level of pay, the x-factor payment and any other universal payment or allowances provided to personnel serving in any of the regular forces. It would not preclude people from working part-time but would prevent the option of working part-time or subject to geographical restriction—which the Minister acknowledges is envisaged for only a small number of people—being used as justification to reduce remuneration overall.

A recent document provided by the Bill team states that,

“personnel who remain working on a full-time commitment will not see a reduction to their basic pay, x-factor payment, and any other universal payments”.

I therefore hope the Minister will accept our amendment so that this information is available for all to see. In the same document it is stated that the Government are,

“engaged with the Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body to help determine what a fair and appropriate reduction”,

of the x-factor payment would be for those who have limits placed on them at their level of separation. There is also discussion on the need to inform how the Armed Forces Pension Scheme will operate after the passage of the Bill. I hope we will hear more from the Minister about these points.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Newnham, for tabling her amendment on access to accommodation. We have received assurances from the Minister and his officials that those affected by the Bill will not see any change in their entitlement to service accommodation. If this is the case, surely the Minister will agree to put these assurances in the Bill.

Amendment 16 tabled in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Burt of Solihull, is also important. As with the issues of accommodation, we are simply asking that the assurances we have already received are added to the Bill. Similarly, Amendment 17 tabled in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, is also invaluable. Some important points have been made and it may be that the Minister is not able to respond positively today. However, we shall certainly be looking for much more when we come to the Report stage. I beg to move.

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I hope that my rather lengthy answer will convince noble Lords that it is not necessary for the Bill to be amended in the ways suggested and that, following my assurances, the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, will withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, the Minister has given his usual very full response. I need to reflect on it, because I keep coming back to the points made in our first debate by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig. There is a question of definition and terminology: the Minister has constantly referred to “flexible” working but the Bill keeps referring to “part-time” working. It mentions flexible working only in the short title. I need to look carefully at his remarks on the Bill in Hansard tomorrow to make sure that he is talking about part-time working, not flexible working, because that was one of the key points I was trying to draw out. He said that the existing flexible working scheme is codified. I would be grateful to receive a copy of that. My earlier point was that people working in that flexible environment should not be penalised in any way by having their pay cut. That is a key point we need to look at before Report.

We have had a very useful and interesting debate, but it certainly underpins the need for clear definitions and terminology. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 9 withdrawn.

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Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

12: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—
“Implications for the Armed Forces Covenant
(1) Within six months of the coming into force of this Act, the Secretary of State must lay a statement before both Houses of Parliament outlining the implications of this Act for the Armed Forces Covenant.(2) In preparing the statement, the Secretary of State must determine whether the Armed Forces Covenant, or any of its supporting documentation, requires revision in order to reflect the measures provided for in this Act.(3) The Secretary of State must ensure that the Armed Forces Covenant annual report considers the contribution of this Act to meeting the goals of the Armed Forces Covenant.”

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords,

“The need for an Armed Forces Covenant is ever more relevant today”.


Those are the words of the very first sentence that the Defence Secretary wrote in the foreword to the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report 2016. For once I find myself in complete agreement with Sir Michael Fallon—

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

Don’t get carried away.

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[Lord Touhig]

I will not get carried away. The publication of the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report has become a well-established practice, and the Government should be congratulated on that. Because of that, we on this side were motivated to table Amendment 12.

The Bill is a small but by no means insignificant measure, and when enacted its impact should be measured to see what implications it has for the covenant. Subsection 2 of the amendment requires that,

“the Secretary of State must determine whether the Armed Forces Covenant, or any of its supporting documentation, requires revision in order to reflect the measures provided for in this Act”.

By including the requirement set out in subsection 3 of the amendment, we are deliberately linking the impact of this Bill on the lives of service men and women to the covenant. By explicitly linking the Bill to the covenant, we are giving the external members of the covenant reference group an opportunity to consider and comment on the operation of the Bill when it becomes an Act.

The external members of the covenant reference group make a major contribution to monitoring the life and well-being of our Armed Forces, their families and all that affects their lives. This Bill should be no exception, so I heartily welcome the comments made by the Minister in a debate earlier this afternoon which made clear that the Government will ensure that the operation of this legislation will be reflected in a report on the covenant. That will give the external members of the covenant reference group a chance to comment on it. That is progress, and I look forward to that being enacted. I beg to move.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, has explained, this amendment seeks to require the Secretary of State for Defence to lay a Statement before both Houses of Parliament, within six months of this Bill coming into force, outlining the implications of this Bill, once enacted, for the Armed Forces covenant. This amendment would also require the Defence Secretary to consider whether the Armed Forces covenant, or any of its supporting documentation, requires revision to reflect the measures in the Bill. Finally, it seeks to commit the Defence Secretary to ensure that the annual report on the covenant reflects the contribution of this Bill to meeting Armed Forces covenant goals.

I share the view of the noble Lord about the importance of measuring and reporting on the impact of the changes that will be introduced through this Bill. I want to ensure that it is done in the most appropriate and effective way for both the MoD and Parliament. As I mentioned at Second Reading, and several times today, we expect a small but significant number of our people to take up the new opportunities introduced by the Bill.

For this reason and, I submit, the disproportionate administrative burden we believe it would create, we judge that there would be little value to be gained from producing a statement only six months after the Act has come into force. The long-term aim of providing these new arrangements, alongside a range of other measures in the MoD, is to modernise the terms of service and ultimately improve Armed Forces recruitment and retention, which I am sure all noble Lords would welcome.

In addition to this, evidence from our ongoing flexible duties trial suggests that in particular those with families have benefited from the greater stability that comes from having more choice over how they serve. This latter prospect has been welcomed by the services’ families’ federations, which view this as an important part of the drive for a better work/life balance among service families. It is these specific areas that I have just mentioned rather than the concept of the Armed Forces covenant itself that will feel the direct impact following the introduction of the new flexible working arrangements. We therefore do not anticipate that there will be any need to revise the wording of the covenant or its supporting documentation. As noble Lords will be aware, the Secretary of State is already required to lay an annual report before Parliament each year outlining the Government’s progress in delivering the Armed Forces covenant and, as I mentioned earlier, it is likely that a future report will include a section on the introduction of the measures included in this Bill and their effect. That would be entirely appropriate. For this reason, and the others I have already outlined, it seems unnecessary to legislate that the Secretary of State should report separately on the introduction of the new measures that the Bill will introduce. I do not therefore believe it is necessary for the Bill to be amended as suggested by the noble Lord. Following these assurances, I hope that he will agree to withdraw his amendment.

[Lord Touhig]

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 12 withdrawn.

Armed Forces (Flexible Working) Bill [HL]

Lord Touhig Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 11th October 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

1: Clause 1, page 1, line 2, leave out from beginning to “is” in line 3 and insert “The Armed Forces Act 2006”

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[Lord Touhig (Lab)]

My Lords, Amendments 1, 2, 4 and 10 will, if agreed, mean that regulations made necessary by the passing of this Bill will be subject to the affirmative procedure. It was a point well debated in Committee, and I do not need to rehearse those arguments again at length. It is worth pointing out, however, that the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee, following its consideration of the Bill, stated:

“The Bill will confer novel and broad powers on the Defence Council to make provision for part-time service … These powers are conferred without any detailed provisions on the face of the Bill limiting or restricting how the powers are exercised. In the circumstances we consider that the affirmative procedure should apply, and that this is so despite the fact regulations under section 329 of the Armed Forces Act 2006 are generally subject to the negative procedure”.


I believe that there is agreement across the House that the Government should heed the committee’s recommendation. I thank the Minister for his willingness to engage in discussions, both in Committee and outside, on this matter and for his undertaking that the Government are listening to the comments that are being made.

This Bill introduces provisions enabling the Defence Council to make regulations regarding part-time working and the new forms of geographically restricted service. The Defence Council will also be able to make regulations setting out the circumstances in which agreements can be varied, suspended or terminated. The provision in the Armed Forces Act 2006 that governs the parliamentary procedure to which regulations are subject is Section 373. At present, any regulations made under Section 329 are subject to the negative procedure. However, our amendments will ensure that any regulations made under the new sections to be inserted by this Bill will be subject to the affirmative procedure. Section 373(3) sets out which regulations made under the 2006 Act are subject to the affirmative procedure, and the amendment inserts reference to regulations under the Bill into that list. The amendments also amend the wording of Clause 3(6) of the Bill to reflect the fact that Clause 1 now amends two sections of the Armed Forces Act 2006 and not just one. I beg to move.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I rise to speak to the amendments, particularly to Amendment 8 in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Jolly. My comments will be very much in line with the words of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig. In Committee, the Minister said:

“I am not in a position today to give any undertakings on the substance of this issue, but I undertake to reflect further on the matter in a constructive way ahead of Report”.—[Official Report, 12/9/17; col. GC 85]


If constructive reflection has occurred, it has not been visible in the form of any government amendment. Could the Minister explain to the House why no government amendment has been forthcoming and, in the absence of that, why noble Lords should not accept either the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, or that of my noble friend Lady Jolly?

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[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, I said in Committee that the Government would reflect further on the recommendation from your Lordships’ Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee. That committee’s recommendation is to the same effect as the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and indeed the proposed amendment of the noble Baronesses, Lady Smith and Lady Jolly.

I am grateful to both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their thoughtful contributions to this Bill. I recognise the hesitations of my noble friend Lord Attlee around the affirmative procedure in this context, but the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee rightly highlighted to the House that some of the new Defence Council regulations to be made under this Bill will go beyond matters of pure procedure. We have considered the committee’s recommendation and its reasons for making it, and we have decided on balance that it is right to accept it. I acknowledge the strength of feeling in this House to ensure appropriate scrutiny of those forthcoming regulations.

While the intended effect of the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, and that of the amendment of the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, is exactly the same, I hope that the noble Baronesses will not be unduly disappointed if on this occasion I agree to accept the amendments of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, to the Bill, which I am pleased to do.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, this has been a very brief but successful debate all round, I think. I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, for having shared his views with me on a number of occasions. I understand his concerns. I have been in this House just seven years, but one of the striking contrasts I have found with the other place is our total and utter commitment to scrutinise and hold government to account, whether it is on large issues about platforms or issues that the noble Earl may consider to be of a much lesser degree of importance. We will want to continue that. I am grateful for the support, and I am very grateful to the Minister for accepting the amendment.

I pay particular tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, who chaired the committee that brought forward the recommendation to which the Government have certainly listened. She has done a tremendous job, and we all wish her well and hope that she is back soon.

Amendment 1 agreed.

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[Baroness Butler-Sloss (CB)]

My Lords, I regret that I have come rather late to the Bill. I am also one of those who has never done any form of military service, so I speak as a genuine civilian. I have been listening with great interest to the argument and it does seem to me that there are great dangers in using the phrase “part-time”. I think it is a very clear case. I was particularly interested by the words of the noble Lord, Lord Condon. Will the Minister take into account what the police did when they did not use the phrase “part-time” but found other phraseology? If, in fact, there are legal reasons, as the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, pointed out—which I find difficult to understand—why “to take breaks” may not answer the case, it really is not beyond the ability of Ministry of Defence lawyers, I should have thought, to look at other phraseology, suitable for the police, that could be adapted to the armed services.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, before I comment on the amendment, I say at the outset that as I have reflected and listened to the debate I was very much struck by the point made right at the beginning by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Boyce. His words convinced me that there is nothing in civilian life that compares to life in the services. We in this House and in the country must recognise that when you join the Armed Forces, it is not like joining Barclays or Tesco; you are joining an organisation in which you can put your life on the line to defend our country. We in this House and in the whole country, whenever we talk about defence, must remember that and remember that it is people we are talking about.

The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig of Radley, when he moved his amendment on this matter in Grand Committee, raised his concerns about the term “part-time”, questioning, as the noble Baroness, Lady Jolly, has said, whether it had,

“the potential for misunderstanding and for belittling the reputation of the Armed Forces”.

He therefore asked a very simple question:

“Could a better, less questionable word or phrase be used instead?”.—[Official Report, 12/9/17; col. GC 69.]


That is at the heart of this debate.

In Grand Committee I made it clear from these Benches that we are sympathetic to the noble and gallant Lord’s amendment, and that position remains unchanged. The men and women of our Armed Forces are truly exceptional. That is accepted around the world, and it is the duty of any Government to protect this reputation. However, terminology is all-important in these matters—a point I recall the Minister also making. Communication and language is complicated enough. Call me old fashioned, but I am sure that I am not alone in this House when I say that plain speaking is the best way to communicate.

In Committee we urged the Government to respond and come back at Report. In the interim, authors of various amendments in Grand Committee received very thoughtful, helpful letters from the Minister. While I accept that this is not the only concern behind the noble and gallant Lord’s amendment, I was pleased to see the Minister stress that the Bill could not be used by a future Administration to force an individual into part-time working. I hope that he will repeat that today.

Of one thing I am certain, and again I echo the words of the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, in Grand Committee:

“First, let me confirm my acceptance in principle of flexible schemes which are viable, enjoy service support and do not detract from the operational 24/7 capability of the Armed Forces”.—[Official Report, 12/9/17; col. GC 69.]


We would certainly endorse that, but I am sure that I am not alone when I say that I do not want to jeopardise the opportunity to put the simple yet powerful aspiration that the noble and gallant Lord articulated so well into action. I hope that the Government will have a positive response to help us this afternoon.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I begin by apologising to the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Craig, and to the House for the guidance that I gave him in my letter following Committee when I said that according to the advice I had received, it would not be possible to amend the Long Title of the Bill. That advice resulted from an honest interpretation of the Companion to the Standing Orders. It was given in good faith but it was clearly incorrect in light of further advice from the Public Bill Office, and I am sorry.

These amendments stem from concerns previously expressed by noble and noble and gallant Lords over the use of the phrase “part-time” in the Bill; namely, that its use serves to belittle the reputation of our Armed Forces and perhaps even puts those personnel who choose to work part-time at risk of some form of denigration from colleagues amounting even to bullying and harassment, because the Armed Forces will see part-time working as somehow less worthy. I have to say to the noble and gallant Lord that I do not agree with that analysis, and nor do the service chiefs.

It is important to appreciate the context of what we seek to do. The measures in the Bill are part of a series of steps we are taking to modernise the Armed Forces’ terms of service. They are entirely of a piece with some of the other forward-looking steps we have taken in the recent past, such as lifting the ban on women in close combat roles, which have helped to further modernise our Armed Forces, making them a more attractive career choice to wider sections of our society. We must continue down this path if we are to be truly representative of the people whom we serve.

As I have mentioned previously, this measure has the full support of the service chiefs. Our use of the word “part-time” is absolutely deliberate. The meaning of statute has to be clear. We want to be clear to Parliament and to our people that part-time working is indeed what we are introducing, albeit with certain constraints to protect operational capability. Personnel will be able to reduce their commitment to less than full-time and their pay will be adjusted accordingly. Whichever way one tries to explain it, this is part-time working and that is the main reason why the Bill is drafted as it is and why we continue to believe this wording to be appropriate. The noble and gallant Lord’s amendment seeks to disguise what we plan to do. I do not think that legislation should ever go down that sort of path. Legislation should make its meaning clear.

The noble and gallant Lord will no doubt argue that his amendment encapsulates the Government’s policy in different words. It does not. The phrase,

“take breaks from full-time service”,

could describe a variety of different things, including some of the flexible working opportunities already in place, such as unpaid leave, career intermissions and maternity leave. We are introducing something through the Bill that is distinctly different from those things and therefore the way we describe it needs to be very clear. The services are not afraid of plain language and plain language is what we are providing here.

It may help if I repeat what I mentioned in my round-robin letter—that “part-time” has been used in a previous Armed Forces Act. This is not an unprecedented use of the phrase in our legislation. It occurs, for example, in Section 2(1A) and 2(1B) of the Armed Forces Act 1966. It has never caused problems in the past. Circumlocution is therefore not only a wrong approach in my view, it is also unnecessary.

When the noble and gallant Lord advances an argument, I take it seriously, as does the Ministry of Defence, but I cannot agree with his premise. We do not accept the argument that the use of “part-time” will denigrate the individual who works under this arrangement, or denigrate the services in any way. Neither do we agree with the suggestion that those who choose to work part-time for a limited period are not the type of people we need in today’s Armed Forces. On the contrary, it is arguable that those who choose to work part-time, for a temporary period, for reduced pay, rather than leave the services, display an admirable commitment to serving their country. This is precisely the calibre of person that we need to retain and recruit in today’s Armed Forces.

Times move on. Working part-time is a modern, widely recognised and practised working pattern, including for those whose service and work are a vocation, to pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord West, quoting the noble Viscount, Lord Slim. As noble Lords may recall, I held a briefing session on 11 July this year, which some noble Lords attended, where two serving commanding officers were also in attendance. Both those officers genuinely welcomed the introduction of part-time working, which they saw as another tool to help us look after our people at times in their lives when they need it most. They had no difficulty with either the concept or the terminology we are using to describe it. The reason that they had no difficulty is that these new measures and others that we are introducing elsewhere to help improve the overall offer to our people will encourage service men and women to stay and may attract others to join.

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Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

4: Clause 1, page 1, line 17, at end insert—
“( ) In section 373 (orders, regulations and rules), in subsection (3), after paragraph (e) insert—“(ea) regulations under section 329(1) which make provision of a kind mentioned in section 329(2)(ha), (i), or (j),(eb) regulations under section 329(3A),”.”

--- Later in debate ---

Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

5: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—
“Protection of pay and allowances
(1) Nothing in this Act shall lead to the full-time equivalent level of remuneration provided to persons serving with a regular force being reduced.(2) In this section, “remuneration” means—(a) basic pay;(b) the x-factor allowance; and(c) any other universal payments,provided to persons serving with a regular force.”

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, Amendment 5 repeats our amendment on pay and allowances from Grand Committee. Taken together with Amendment 6, it offers greater protection and security to our service men and women who may need to use the option of flexible or part-time working as described and set out in the Bill.

I was grateful to the Minister for his response in Grand Committee and for following it up with letters to me and to other noble Lords. In Committee, the Minister offered reassurances, saying that,

“the introduction of part-time working will not be used to lower the full-time equivalent basic rate of pay, the x-factor allowance or any other universal allowances or payments available to personnel”.—[Official Report, 12/9/17; col. GC 95.]

This commitment was very much welcomed. As we have seen on so many occasions, the views of one Minister cannot be taken as representative of the views of all future Ministers, although we on this side hope that this particular Minister stays for a long time yet. I hope that the Government will accept this and feel able to put our amendment into the Bill, thus demonstrating commitment to our hard-working service men and women.

I now turn to the existing options for flexible working and, in doing so, seek to build a bridge to demonstrate that there is a clear link in the objectives of these two amendments. In a letter that the Minister sent last month, he outlined three options for flexible working that now exist: working from home, compressed hours and variable start and finish times. His letter explained in detail how these options work and, while this information was welcome, I look for assurance that the three flexible working options will continue to be available alongside the new part-time working arrangements enshrined in the Bill. The Minister’s letter did not quite make that clear. The letter said that existing flexible working arrangements recognise that a small variation in an individual’s working arrangements can have a positive impact on their working lives, which is true. It went on to say that there will be circumstances where existing options will not be sufficient and a significant reduction in working hours over a longer period can be facilitated by a part-time working arrangement.

Those arguments might seem perfectly reasonable, but I have some concern. Many service personnel, faced with some domestic or other problem causing them to seek to change their service work commitment will, nevertheless, have great difficulties if the only option on offer involves a cut in pay and a reduction in pensions. Bearing in mind that part-time working, as set out in the Bill, will involve a cut in pay and pensions, can the Minister assure us that each application for changing service work commitment will be looked at on its merits and that using the flexible working options that he outlined will be considered alongside the part-time working arrangement?

I turn to Amendment 6, which relates to the future status of Joint Service Publication 750, which outlines the range of flexible working options that I have just spoken about. It had been a concern of all sides that the introduction of part-time working—which, as I have said, will take a proportionate amount of pay and pensions from applicants—was a drastic overreaction to a genuine need for greater flexibility. I know that the Minister will not accept that, but he is aware of the concerns on this point. We were pleased, therefore, with clarification on the provisions of JSP 750 and the anticipated take-up of the part-time offer. I believe that many of the worries expressed across the House have been addressed by the Minister’s response. However, while part-time working will have a statutory footing following the passage of this legislation, this is not true of the existing flexible working options.

This amendment seeks to ensure that the options in JSP 750 will continue to be available and that, if that document is ever withdrawn by a Secretary of State, regulations must be brought forward to make a similar provision. I beg to move.

[Baroness Jolly]

My Lords, in this group I will speak to Amendment 7. We all want flexible and part-time working to be a success. Therefore it is important to monitor whether these arrangements are helpful in convincing some who may not have ordinarily thought of joining the Armed Forces so to do—I beg your Lordships’ pardon. I am very sorry, I am speaking to the wrong group.

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[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, the Minister was right when he said that I had some responsibility for the 2006 Act. I introduced the Bill, but I can take no credit for its passing because, before it did so, the then Prime Minister rang me to award me the DCM—“Don’t Come Monday”—and I was no longer a Minister, so I never actually saw the Bill through. Nevertheless, I was responsible for introducing it.

I thank the Minister for his positive response, which reassured me. We do not want to abandon what has already become established and is worth while, so I hope that the Government will see that through, as the Minister indicated. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 5 withdrawn.

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Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

7: After Clause 1, insert the following new Clause—
“Inclusion in the Armed Forces Covenant Annual Report
(1) Section 343A of the Armed Forces Act 2006 (armed forces covenant report) is amended as follows.(2) After subsection (3), insert— “(3A) In preparing an armed forces covenant report the Secretary of State must—(a) outline the options available to persons serving with a regular force in relation to part-time working and serving subject to geographic restrictions; and(b) provide his assessment of what impact the options in paragraph (a) have had on recruitment and retention.””

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, Amendment 7, if accepted, would afford the Government the opportunity to enhance the value of the Armed Forces covenant annual report. The Government deserve credit for the full implementation of the covenant and for ensuring that there is an annual report. The report shines a light on the way this country treats those who put their lives on the line to defend our freedom. It is made even more valuable by the fact that there is an external members reference group which can pick and choose what it wants to consider and comment on. So why not go one step further and ensure that, when preparing the report, the Secretary of State for Defence must take into account the two tasks that would be placed on him by paragraphs (a) and (b) in this amendment?

We discussed this in Committee and have returned to it again on Report because, on reading the Hansard report of the Committee’s deliberations, there seemed to us to be some ambiguity in the Minister’s response. In replying to me, he said:

“I share the view of the noble Lord about the importance of measuring and reporting on the impact of the changes that will be introduced through this Bill. I want to ensure that it is done in the most appropriate and effective way for both the MoD and Parliament”.


However, he concluded:

“it is likely that a future report will include a section on the introduction of the measures included in this Bill … That would be entirely appropriate”.—[Official Report, 12/9/17; cols. GC 99-100.]

This debate is really about allowing the Minister the opportunity to state without any doubt that a report on the measures included in this Bill will be included in the annual Armed Forces covenant report. I beg to move.

[Baroness Jolly]

My Lords, I apologise to the House for jumping the gun earlier.

We all want to make flexible and part-time working a success, and it is therefore important to monitor whether these arrangements are helpful in convincing some who might not ordinarily have thought of joining the Armed Forces so to do, or in persuading some existing members to remain in the Armed Forces if they were considering leaving. The Armed Forces covenant annual report is the report on the state of the armed services to the nation, so I ask the Minister not to close the door on this level of reporting. It would be helpful if he could assure the House that, in the future, the MoD would consider doing just this.

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[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. I do not have the copper-bottomed “will” that I sought, but in this case I have to say “near enough is good enough” and I will therefore withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 7 withdrawn.

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[Baroness Smith of Newnham]

My Lords, this amendment, too, replicates an amendment that was brought in Committee and refers to an issue that is fundamental to recruitment, retention and forces’ welfare, as well as the welfare of forces families: accommodation. In his response in Committee the Minister suggested that the numbers of people who might avail themselves of the opportunity to work part-time under the arrangements of the Bill would perhaps be sufficiently limited that they would not impact on forces accommodation. The idea was welcomed that all members of Her Majesty’s forces, whether full-time or part-time, if they are regulars, would be entitled to the same accommodation provisions.

However, if more people are acquired because some people work part-time, so that you might have three people instead of two people doing the job, each of those individuals would be entitled to accommodation, and at some point this might have an impact on the requirement for accommodation as a whole. Clearly, as the Minister stated in the discussion on Amendment 7, there may be cases where this will be overcome by Help to Buy and through the new employment model. However, to the extent that this is not the case, it is hugely important for service men and women and their families to believe that Her Majesty’s Government will provide adequate accommodation for them.

For that reason, we have again tabled an amendment on accommodation, both to restate that service men and women who avail themselves of this flexible model are entitled to appropriate family accommodation or single-living accommodation, and, perhaps more importantly in the longer term, to have certainty that the Government are reviewing what forces accommodation is available and whether it will be suitable for the number of service men and women we have.

One of the key things is what is available and habitable and the extent to which the accommodation, and the maintenance contracts which deal with it, are fit for purpose. We have been told on various occasions that CarillionAmey now meets its key performance indicators, yet there are still many complaints. If it meets its key performance indicators, does that mean that they are not the right ones? While this might not be the appropriate amendment to bring that forward, it would be welcome if the Minister could at least explain when we might be able to discuss such things.

[Lord Touhig]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady Smith and Lady Jolly, for tabling a further amendment on service accommodation. As the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, noted in Committee, there are already significant pressures on service accommodation, and that is before we even begin to consider the move to the future accommodation model from 2019.

I will not go into the detail about our concerns on the future accommodation model, but clearly there are urgent questions for the Government to answer on how the Bill will affect personnel who rely on service accommodation, particularly when the system is shaken up. There will also be more questions for the Government to answer in the future as the new system is rolled out. I am therefore glad to see the addition of the second part of Amendment 9, which would require the Secretary of State not only to provide a periodic snapshot but to be proactive in anticipating future accommodation needs. I hope that the Minister will provide us with some answers—perhaps in a further round of letters before Third Reading—and offer a firm commitment; it is important that these things are reported back to Parliament.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, Amendment 9 is similar to the amendment to which I spoke in Grand Committee—I think it was Amendment 13 on that occasion—which sought to amend the Bill to ensure that personnel who successfully apply to work part-time will still be entitled to service family accommodation and resettlement support.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, will recall that during discussions in Grand Committee I provided assurances that regular service personnel undertaking part-time working would retain the entitlements currently available to full-time regulars. I was able to give those assurances because providing our people with service accommodation is pivotal to the work we are doing to enable personnel and their families with mobility in support of defence capability.

To support my earlier reassurances, I stress again that regular service personnel who successfully apply to work part-time following the introduction of these new measures will be entitled to service accommodation commensurate with their personal status category and other qualifying criteria in the same way as their full-time colleagues. There is no reason to alter the entitlement to accommodation for those who undertake part-time working in the future since these individuals will retain an enduring liability for mobility and will still be subject to the same moves associated with new assignments as others in the regular Armed Forces.

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Moved by

[Lord Touhig]

10: Clause 3, page 2, line 25, leave out “section 329” and insert “sections 329 and 373”