Health Bill

Lord Scriven Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 3rd November 2026 Lords Chamber

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My Lords, I just have a very quick practical suggestion to deal with some of the issues the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, and others raised about staff neutrality, because that is what we are talking about. Would it not be wise, rather than going through a long process, to make it part of the NHS constitution that staff have to be neutral in how they deal with fellow staff and patients with whom they come into contact? I ask the Minister to consider that seriously when she reports back not just today but on Report. It is just a practical suggestion.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

I will be very brief in supporting that suggestion from the noble Lord, Lord Scriven. When I was listening to the debate, I was thinking about people who have told me about feeling discriminated against. They often do not declare their racial, religious or whatever view, because they are terrified of being further labelled and discriminated against. The noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, spoke about the history of this for the Jewish people; there were lists of who was Jewish, particularly in the Netherlands, which were rapidly exploited to round them up with speed and persecute them further. That is a very deep-seated fear in a lot of these people.

The other fear is that, if they disclose that they have been discriminated against, they will be undermined in other forms that make their lives even harder. I can again think of other specific examples that have been brought to my attention. I commend this solution as a way forward.

--- Later in debate ---

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for raising consideration of staff neutrality, as was also spoken to by the noble Baronesses, Lady Finlay, Lady Pidgeon and Lady Cash. We are clear that staff must demonstrate the core values of the NHS and demonstrate neutrality in the workplace. I would go further. I do not know that I would use “neutrality”; it is an issue of fairness, and “without fear or favour” might be the other expression.

[Lord Scriven (LD)]

My point about the important value of neutrality is this, and let me give an example. You might not be discriminatory: you have somebody who is Jewish, somebody who is Muslim, somebody who is Christian and somebody of no faith, and you treat them all equally, but you might have something on your body which is not neutral to two of them. You are therefore possibly treating that person differently, from their perspective. If neutrality and fairness is such an important value for the NHS, can the Minister go away and look seriously at making it a key component in the NHS constitution, because it is not there at the moment?

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I take that point and I certainly accept the spirit in which the noble Lord suggests it. I will take all the points that have been discussed away to see whether there is any way that we can work with it, rather than extending a debate on what neutrality means, because I know what the noble Lord is getting at. It is helpful that he has given thought to that.

On Amendment 258, NHS bodies are already subject to clear legal duties to prevent and address discrimination and racial harassment, alongside established responsibilities to tackle extremism and safeguard patients and staff. In a technical fashion, I certainly caution against adding further legal duties here because it would risk confusion about what we expect ICBs and trusts to do. I know that is not something that any of us would wish to do.

On Amendment 259, we have accepted the recommendation from the noble Lord, Lord Mann, to consider amending the performers lists regulations, which would enable conditions to be imposed on suitability grounds. We intend to amend the regulations, subject to consultation. The amendment is unnecessary as the Government are already taking forward the substance of it. It would also impose a six-month statutory deadline before the necessary consultation and consideration have taken place, whereas we have to allow sufficient time to make sure that any changes are legally robust, proportionate and workable. Nor would we wish to pre-empt consultation by committing in this moment to how particular forms of conduct should be addressed in the regulations.

On Amendment 279C, under NHS staff standards—which, as I referred to on the comments from the noble Baroness, Lady Manzoor, were launched on 6 July—employers must take sustained and meaningful action to prevent and root out racism. NHS organisations will be measured on this through the national oversight framework. In addition, I say to the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, that regulatory processes are already in place to which all registered healthcare professionals are subject. Regulatory fitness to practise processes allow concerns about misconduct to be investigated. They allow evidence to be considered and the appropriate regulatory action, which could indeed include removal from the register, to be determined in each case. The Professional Standards Authority for Health and Social Care acts as an independent body in this regard to make sure that regulators apply the right sanctions. Where it considers that a decision does not provide sufficient public protection, it has the powers to refer the decision to the courts for consideration.

In drawing this together, I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Gerada, the noble Lord, Lord Patel of Bradford, and your Lordships’ Committee that we are ensuring that ICBs and providers are fulfilling their duties. The key means to do that is through performance assessments. I gently caution against adding additional criteria to the current approach, because it is important that assessments have sufficient flexibility to adapt to the evolving role of ICBs as strategic commissioners, which, after all, is at the heart of the Bill.