Israel and Gaza
Lord Robathan Excerpts(6 months ago)
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Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
What I would say to the noble Baroness is that the last time I was asked to make a political declaration outside our normal process of reviewing arms export licences, and to simply say that we would not sell any more arms to Israel, just a few days later Iran attacked Israel with a hail of over 140 cruise missiles. That position of acting outside our normal processes would have been completely wrong.
Let me answer very directly on the ICC’s announcement yesterday. I do not believe for one moment that seeking these warrants will help get the hostages out, help get aid in, or help deliver a sustainable ceasefire. As we have said from the outset, because Israel is not a signatory to the Rome statute, and because Palestine is not yet recognised as a state, we do not think that the court has jurisdiction in this area.
I would go beyond that and say that, frankly, this is mistaken in terms of position, timing and effect. To draw a moral equivalence between the Hamas leadership and the democratically elected leader of Israel is just plain wrong. It is not just Britain saying that; countries all over Europe and the world are saying that.
On timing, I point out to your Lordships’ House that the ICC was about to embark on a visit to Israel, which some of us had helped to arrange, and at the last minute decided to cancel that visit and simply go ahead with its announcement. It is not normally for the ICC to think about the effect, but as it clearly thought about the timing, maybe it should also think about the effect. As I have said, it will not help get the hostages out, and it probably makes change in Israel less likely.
Lord Robathan (Con)
I am very pleased with what my noble friend has just said. Does he also agree that if we and the rest of the West were to suspend arms sales, it would allow Hamas to regroup and return to the destructive and ghastly behaviour we witnessed on 7 October?
Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
I thank my noble friend for that question. Britain and America are obviously in completely different situations in terms of arms exports to Israel. Our exports are less than 1% of the total, so not a meaningful amount, whereas the United States is a far bigger provider. As I said, I think acting outside our proper processes and guidelines —we have a process of going through Israel’s commitment, capability and compliance with the rules laid out in our export criteria—would not be the right thing to, for the reasons I have given.
Foreign Affairs
Lord Robathan Excerpts(8 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, it is a genuine pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Deech; I agree with her about a great many things, including what she has just said. I am also pleased to see my noble friend Lord Cameron, the Foreign Secretary, in his place. It is rather too late for me to welcome him here, but I welcome somebody of his stature representing the United Kingdom abroad.
Perforce, I will be brief. I would like to give the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, my support in his dissection of the integrated review refresh of last year. I also say to my noble friend Lady Goldie, who is not in her place, that, as the most reverend Primate the Archbishop knows, there is more rejoicing in heaven over a sinner who repenteth as she has done over defence spending. It is a pity she did not say that when she was a Minister, but I will upbraid her for it in person.
I will touch briefly on three current conflicts; first, Ukraine, about which a great deal has been said. This war in Europe is the most serious for nearly 80 years. The war is a mixture of World War I attrition and 21st-century high-tech drones and the like. I congratulate Boris Johnson—I do not often—who was of course a great school friend of my noble friend the Foreign Secretary. I also congratulate the UK Government on their steadfast support for Ukraine in the last two years, but we must continue to do this and do more. Are we pressing our allies, particularly France, Germany and the United States, to do more? They must do more, not sit on their hands and say, “It is all very good but a bit difficult”. This war affects global security and prosperity. The United States, Europe, Africa and India all need to understand that.
Our munitions have been extremely welcome and invaluable, but now they are totally depleted for our use or Ukraine’s. Is my noble friend pressing for a dramatic increase in industrial production, to move away from the mindset of the peace dividend? My noble friend may say that defence is not his brief, but he will be listened to, and he will know well the dictum of von Clausewitz in “Vom Kriege”, or “On War” for those who do not speak German:
“War is the continuation of policy with other means”—
and for foreign policy with defence, I suggest.
On Gaza and the Middle East, the UK has again been steadfast. It is a dreadful, possibly intractable situation. I cannot think of anybody who is not very concerned, to put it mildly, about the death of many civilians in Gaza, but Hamas could end this war tomorrow if it gave up the hostages and stopped attacking Israel. Perhaps we could then allow for a more peaceful, long-term solution to emerge, probably based on a two-state solution in which Hamas disappears, along with the illegal settlements in the West Bank and some of the ultra-Orthodox pressure on the Government. Perhaps we would get more reasonable—or moderate, shall we say —Governments in both Palestine and Israel.
Finally, on the situation in Yemen with Iran and the Houthis, the prosperity of the world is under threat. It is disappointing to see so few countries defending the shipping routes in the Gulf. My noble friend Lord Ahmad spoke of international responses, but as I understand it, the only response has been from the United States, helped by us with one ship. We need much more than that to defend the shipping lanes in the Gulf.
Moving on, perhaps I may quote a predecessor of my noble friend the Foreign Secretary from some 30 years ago, Lord Hurd, who said that we punch above our weight in foreign affairs, and President Theodore Roosevelt, who said some 100 years ago, in a much better- known quotation:
“Speak softly and carry a big stick”.
We spent the defence peace dividend several times over and we have no big stick left. Our allies know this, and the United States and NATO say it. As I speak, we are reducing our defence in terms of numbers of troops, numbers of ships and numbers of aircraft. I heard the Chancellor of the Exchequer say recently that he wants to dramatically increase defence spending over the next 15 years. That is not good enough; our needs are now.
I support the Conservative Government. I have supported my party. I have been loyal—mostly—through thick and thin over 32 years; quite a lot of it has been rather thin, to be honest. I do not believe that a Government led by the Opposition would do any better, but I say to my noble friend the Foreign Secretary that our interests, our society, our values and our security are all threatened. We must spend more on defence, because the first duty of government is, as always, the defence of the realm.
Children in Gaza
Lord Robathan Excerpts(9 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
The noble Baroness asks a number of questions. The case she raises is completely tragic, and what is happening in Gaza is tragic. We want an end to this suffering and killing. Let me make this point: we want to turn the pause we are calling for into a ceasefire, by making sure the conditions are right for getting a stop in the fighting to mean a permanent ceasefire. The way to do that is by fulfilling a number of conditions. In our view, you have to get the Hamas leaders out of Gaza—otherwise, any ceasefire will not last because the problem will still be there. You have to dismantle the operation of terrorist attacks. You have to have a new Palestinian Authority Government in place. You have to give the Palestinian people a political horizon to a better future and a two-state solution. Crucially, you have to release all the hostages—and do that very quickly.
The noble Baroness asks whether we challenge the Israeli Government over individual episodes. Yes, we absolutely do. I have done that personally with them, for instance, over a building that was bombed that had UK medics and other charities in it. We will continue to do that as part of the very important process that we go through to judge whether they are in compliance with international humanitarian law.
Lord Robathan (Con)
Is my noble friend aware of any moves by Hamas to protect the children of Gaza, for instance by releasing all the hostages, as he just mentioned, or stopping attacks on Israel and the leaders fleeing to the Gulf? Is he aware of any such moves? I agree with everything he said.
Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
My noble friend makes a very good point. It is worth remembering that on 7 October, 29 children were killed by Hamas and 39 children were taken hostage and remain hostages today. It is right that we in this House keep asking what else Israel should do, but at the very same time we should also say what Hamas should do, which is to lay down its weapons and stop right now. It could stop this fight immediately.
Israel and Gaza
Lord Robathan Excerpts(10 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
What I meant when I said that was simply that I worry about these things. It is my job to worry. The Foreign Office has a job, which is to look at the legal advice and work out whether Israel is committed to, and capable of complying with, international humanitarian law, and then, based on that judgment, we have to take a series of actions, including looking at things like export licences. We always urge Israel to obey international humanitarian law, and it is important that we do so.
Lord Robathan (Con)
Is it not the case that there would be an immediate ceasefire tomorrow if Hamas were to release the hostages and lay down its weapons, and if the criminals who did atrocities on 7 October were to go and join their leaders in luxury hotels in the Gulf?
Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton (Con)
My noble friend makes a good point, which is that Hamas could end this tomorrow by saying that it was going to lay down its weapons or leave. Everyone is aware that we want a sustainable ceasefire. That means Hamas not in power and not able to launch rockets and terror, and we have said we want to see an immediate pause so we can get aid in and hostages out. However, in many ways, the very best outcome would be to see whether we could convert that immediate pause for aid and hostages into a sustainable ceasefire without further hostilities. But for that to happen, a series of other things would have to happen: there would have to be immediate negotiations to release all the hostages, the Hamas leadership would have to leave Gaza, and we would have to be clear that there was no more danger of rocket and terror attacks on Israel. We would have to put together something based on the Palestinian Authority, backed by other Palestinians, going back into Gaza. In many ways, that would be the best outcome, but if we call now for an immediate ceasefire with no further fighting when Hamas is still in power, still launching rockets and still capable of launching terror attacks, not only would we not have a sustainable ceasefire and peace but we would have no hope of the thing that I think many in this House would like to see, which is a two-state solution.
Israel-Hamas War: Diplomacy
Lord Robathan Excerpts(11 months, 1 week ago)
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Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, should Hamas release all the hostages and lay down its weapons, and should the terrorists who perpetrated the appalling atrocities on 7 October flee to the Gulf to live in luxury hotels with their leaders, would there not be an immediate ceasefire? Peace might be able to come. We could then decide some long-term political future for the Palestinians and the Israelis.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that as a first step, as I have said, the hostages must be released. It is a no-brainer, as far as I am concerned. Those people were taken, so that will be a vital first step. The other issue to recognise is that we have proscribed Hamas as a terrorist group. It is for Hamas to choose its pathway. Does it want to put down weapons and talk peace? Then say so and put that offer on the table. I alluded earlier to being in Qatar. We are seized of ensuring that, in every country, we deliver the vital messages to those who have influence over Hamas. Given the priority of releasing the hostages and bringing a cessation to the violence we are seeing, Hamas needs to lay down its weapons and say that it no longer wishes to continue to attack Israeli interests.
Gaza: Humanitarian Situation
Lord Robathan Excerpts(11 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Russia: Sanctions
Lord Robathan Excerpts(1 year, 2 months ago)
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, the right reverend Prelate talked about the impact of sanctions. I can share with him that sanctions are having a direct impact. On revenues alone, they have left Russia’s budget in deficit, rather than the surplus that the Russian Government themselves predicted for 2022. Russia has suffered an annual deficit of £47 billion, the second highest of the post-Soviet era. Russia’s energy revenues fell 47% in the first half of this year. At the same time, global oil prices are lower. Less immediately visible, but more importantly in the long-term, more than 1,000 foreign businesses have left Russia, along with thousands of high-skilled workers. More continues to be done, as we co-ordinate and work with other countries. Particularly notable recently is that Armenia, Turkey and Kazakhstan have taken action on the issue of supply chains, which the right reverend Prelate raised. That kind of co-ordination is important if we are going to make these sanctions work across the piece.
Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)
My Lords, we will let my noble friend ask his question and then we will go over to the noble Lord, Lord Sahota.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, on targeted sanctions, the oligarchs who make up the inner circle around Putin, and the huge number of people who have property here, have almost invariably made their money by nefarious means—they must have done, because 30 years ago there was no private capital in Russia. Could my noble friend the Minister give us an update on how many oligarchs are having their property—and whatever else—put into suspension so that we can confiscate and use it to rebuild Ukraine?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
I agree with my noble friend that we all want—I think I speak for the whole House—to get Russia to pay for its war on Ukraine. At the time of the invasion, the UK sanctioned 129 oligarchs who have a combined net worth of around £145 billion. As I said earlier, we have frozen £18 billion-worth of Russian assets under the regime. The UK has also set up specialist agencies in the NCA and, as I said earlier, we are working with key partners. Legal hurdles need to be addressed, but we are not doing that alone—other partner countries are also looking to allow those assets, now that they are frozen, to be moved across. Ultimately, when the war ends, we can use the money from those assets in the reconstruction of Ukraine.
Soft Power
Lord Robathan Excerpts(1 year, 9 months ago)
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, as the Minister for South Asia, among other areas, I am directly involved in some of the important work we are doing to strengthen our partnership with India, for example, as well as other south Asian countries, and education is a key component of that. I assure the noble Lord that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office is very proud of our educational offer to international students and equally proud of the programmes we run, such as the Chevening scholarships and the Commonwealth scholarships, which are part and parcel of our overall educational offer. I stand by the fact that the UK has been, continues to be and should remain a key place for any student wishing to come to the UK, because our educational institutions, with which many noble Lords are involved, are second to none.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, the world has changed rather dramatically in the two years since the publication of this review. I know that the Minister is not directly responsible, but could he go back and ask the Foreign Secretary to lobby for an immediate review of the review, because we must spend more on defence? Funnily enough, I think that is what President Zelensky said yesterday, and everybody said, “Hear, hear”. Well, I say “Hear, hear” to that. We need to have hard power as well as soft power.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
And I say to my noble friend that I hear him, and I hear him again. I assure him that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is seized of the very points he has just made.
Ukraine
Lord Robathan Excerpts(2 years ago)
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, Russia is not winning. The noble Lord talked about training conscripts. We have seen images: when Russia imposed this conscription on its citizens, they fled to the borders. We have seen reports in the media today of so-called trained people having been sent to the front line with equipment that is not just dated but pretty redundant in terms of its use. That is a sign of real desperation. Of course, Ukraine, with the unity of support, including military support, that we have seen from across the world, is making gains and getting back its territory. I put it to the noble Lord—we have had these exchanges before—that if someone occupies your back garden, then your conservatory and then your back room, are you going to say, “It’s okay, let’s negotiate”? I do not think so.
Lord Robathan (Con)
My Lords, in the light of what is an existential threat not just to Ukraine but to the long-term peace, security and future of the European continent and, I suggest, the world, the Government are to be congratulated on what they have done in giving support and material to the Ukrainians.
However—I will choose my words carefully—does my noble friend the Minister not agree that it is absolutely extraordinary that, after eight months of war and depleting our missile stocks, that we are not spending more money on defence and are not even talking about it? The integrated defence review is out of date. Defence is like an insurance policy: you spend money on it and have to pay your premiums. If you do not pay them, guess what? The insurance policy does not work.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
Again, my noble friend has a lot of experience in the field. I pay tribute to how he has represented our nation. I listen very carefully to his contributions. Not only will I ensure that I take that back to the department but I agree with him: our defence capabilities are a cornerstone of our international presence around the world. We need to have a strong defence at home and when supporting our international partners, as we are doing in Ukraine.
Russia: Tactical Nuclear Weapon Deployment
Lord Robathan Excerpts(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, these discussions are happening all over the world; it is in no one’s interests whatever that President Putin comes even close to realising the mindless threats that he has been making. But it is incumbent on us, our NATO allies and powers beyond NATO to reiterate the risk that Russia itself and President Putin would face were he to go down that route. I think we can all agree that the language that has been used by NATO and by our friends in America has made that very clear.
Lord Robathan (Con)
Does my noble friend think that the situation in Ukraine and Russia underlines the need for, and the value of having, an independent continuously at sea nuclear deterrent?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
That is very much the view of the British Government. As the noble Lord knows, we have maintained and will continue to maintain our deterrent for all eventualities.