Russia and Ukraine: Settlement

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 26th May 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it has been very important to show unity of purpose and unity of action. The noble Lord mentions the role of sanctions. As he said—I believe this passionately—the sanctions have worked because, where one country or region has led in front of others, we have co-ordinated and worked together. Those sanctions are hurting Russia, Mr Putin, the Russian Government and all those who support them. It is important that we retain them. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said—I am in total agreement with him—any negotiation must be led by Ukraine and it is the job of any ally, partner or friend to be firmly behind Ukraine.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Your Lordships will know that, in 1938, France and the United Kingdom imposed on Czechoslovakia a deal that they had come to with the Third Reich. This is not a good precedent. The Government have rightly been praised from both sides for their actions on Ukraine. Can my noble friend assure me that we are talking to our allies, in particular France and Germany, to ensure that they do not try to impose their own settlement on Ukraine? It must be the Ukrainians who lead; we support them.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend. The Government are engaging at the top level. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister engages regularly with President Zelensky on the principles that he has articulated. Let us be clear: President Zelensky has said “Let’s meet” directly to Mr Putin. It is important that we get behind his efforts.

Ukraine

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 30th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is of course right. We have seen that the scenarios that were perhaps envisaged in Moscow have played out very differently in Ukraine, and recent announcements have reflected that. However, I add a massive note of caution. Notwithstanding what is happening on the ground to the Russian forces, the Russian military is, nevertheless, very well equipped and there may be alternatives. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, talked about Mariupol; we have seen what has happened through the use of missiles and their indiscriminate destruction. That cannot be ruled out in any shape or form. Of course, any peace negotiation is rightly being led directly by the Ukrainians and President Zelensky. We fully support his efforts and are in close co-ordination and contact with His Excellency the President, Foreign Minister Koluba and others. Noble Lords will be aware of various initiatives that are taking place.

On the issue of scenarios playing out, we have not reached that point yet. I briefed members of the Council of Europe yesterday, and it was very evident that, at some point in time, it will be about not just Ukraine but the impact of the sanctions. It is right that we have acted in co-ordination. But our battle is not with the people of Russia; they are also suffering. Whatever emerges in Russia—one hopes that the voices of democracy and inclusion will be strengthened there—there will be a need at some point to look towards what this means for Russia, its economy and, most importantly, its people.

I did not answer one point on Mariupol and Aleppo. I have had that scenario painted to me, as with other conflicts, and I will say two things on it. First, the noble Baroness will have seen our announcement on Afghanistan today—we are hosting a donor conference. One should not compare and contrast human suffering; it is important that we stand firm in our support for those who suffer through conflict. Aleppo is our conflict, as is Mariupol, and we must look at them through that lens.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

First, I commend the Government for their speedy and effective reaction to this crisis, praised by President Zelensky over and above many of our allies, including our European ones.

Secondly, the Statement says:

“Strength is the only thing Putin understands.”


Unfortunately, that is incorrect: he also understands weakness, which is why he had the Germans and others over a barrel over their dependence on Russian gas. He looks at us and sees that, as we speak, we are reducing our Army by 11% and reducing the number of our aircraft and ships. Could the Minister go back to the Government and say that the integrated defence review needs revisiting?

Thirdly, I am delighted to see that we have sanctioned the Wagner Group—however it is pronounced—but could he please assure me that the security services are looking into its funding? I have heard some very distressing tales about funding by foreign Governments who are not Russian.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s final point, in any sanctions we of course look at a full range of factors to determine who we sanction. We are dynamic in our response, looking at the implications of any sanctions that we have imposed and wider ones that need to apply. I hear very clearly my noble friend’s comments on our defence, but, of course, in advance of this conflict we increased defence spending. Nevertheless, conflicts such as these bring in an important consideration of ensuring that our integrated review and its outcomes are applicable and relevant to the world as we see it today.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, first, I sincerely thank the Government and the Opposition Whips for agreeing that there should be some extra time for this important debate, in light of the current situation. I also thank the Minister for his introduction and for the helpful conversations we have had informally. I hope that he will take the opportunity of listening to the debate—I know he always does—and then passing on some comments and suggestions to his colleagues in the FCDO and to the Prime Minister—and I hope he may be able to answer some questions without pre-judging what the Prime Minister might say later.

The situation is unpredictable. Today is a really dark day for Ukraine, and for Europe and the world as a whole, because the future is now terribly unpredictable. I know some Ukrainian MPs who are delegates to the Council of Europe Parliamentary Assembly, as my noble friend does as well, and I fear for them. They will be among the targets if things go wrong in Ukraine, because they have stood up at the Council of Europe and elsewhere and fought the cause of Ukraine very valiantly.

It is clear that the current sanctions have not deterred Putin. The Foreign Secretary said—I think rather infelicitously—that some sanctions had to be “left in the locker”. It is now clear that, while they have been in the locker, they have had little or no effect. So we must now immediately extend our sanctions, and I am glad that the Minister has indicated that that is the intention. We must intensify our co-ordination with the United States, the European Union and other countries.

First, I suggest that we need to expand the list of Russian oligarchs subject to sanctions. The European Union unanimously agreed to target 27 individuals and entities who are playing a role in

“undermining or threatening the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine”.

Yet, so far, we have sanctioned only five banks and three Russian billionaires. We must extend to at least the European Union’s 27—and beyond, I hope.

The Minister has indicated in a letter to us all that the Government are planning to introduce legislation to prevent the Russian Government from raising finance. This needs to be done urgently. I ask the Minister: can he confirm that this legislation will be brought before both Houses of Parliament at a very early opportunity, so that it is not allowed to drag on?

We should also introduce export controls on Russia, stopping shipments to Russia of microchips, computers, consumer electronics, telecommunications equipment and other items made anywhere in the world if they were produced using US, UK or EU technology. Most importantly of all, we must disconnect Russia from SWIFT. Russia is heavily reliant on SWIFT due to its multibillion exports of hydrocarbons denominated in US dollars. The cut-off would terminate all international transactions, trigger currency volatility and cause massive capital outflows. In my view, and the view of people far more expert than me, it would probably be the most effective action we could take—yet it has not even been mentioned by the Government so far.

We should also sanction luxury property in the United Kingdom.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Hear, hear.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

I am grateful for that support from the other side. Russian businesspeople and officials accused of corruption or links to the Kremlin own at least 150 huge properties in the UK, worth £1.5 billion, according to Transparency International. I accept that there would be some difficulties in doing this, and it would require significantly more resources for our law enforcement agencies, but it should be looked at and I think it should be done.

I also agree that we should target the members of the Duma, the Senate and the Presidential Council. The Minister has indicated that they are compiling evidence, but I hope they will do it quickly because, unlike the oligarchs, they actually advise Putin. Sanctioning the western luxuries they all enjoy—I have seen them enjoy property, schooling and holidays in Europe and the US—will cause a groundswell of discontent. I see some of them as Russian delegates at the Council of Europe. They are parroting the words of Putin; they are his voices in the Council of Europe. I will come back to that in a minute. Mr Tolstoy and Mr Kalashnikov —strange names, but they are very familiar—are hardliners and people we should be dealing with. The only likely way that Putin can be replaced is by people in Russia, and I hope we can make sure that pressure is put on them to do that.

We should also look to provide further lethal and non-lethal aid to Ukraine and neighbouring nations such as Poland, Latvia and Lithuania. We could assist further with intelligence surveillance reports. I know from my time on the Intelligence and Security Committee how good our intelligence agencies are. We can do that without directly entering the conflict and sending troops.

Finally, the leader of the UK delegation to the Council of Europe, John Howell MP, has suggested that we should now expel Russia from the Council. That is a move I would support, as one of the UK delegates to the parliamentary assembly. I hope the Minister, who has the Council of Europe in one of his many and increasing responsibilities, will look at this, because it needs to be done in a co-ordinated way— not just by the parliamentary assembly but by the Governments of the 46 other countries.

Putin needs to know that we are going to take these strong actions and take them now to stop him in his tracks and prevent any further aggression and the inevitable bloodshed that will result. I move this amendment.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I rise briefly. I take comfort from what my noble friend the Minister has said and pay tribute to the resolve being shown by the Prime Minister and the Government—but they need to do more, as the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has said.

This is not new. Litvinenko was poisoned in 2006 not a mile from here; Salisbury, Skripal, et cetera, took place in 2018; the invasion of Georgia, Abkhazia and South Ossetia, took place in 2008, and Crimea in 2014. We must understand the pattern here. As the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, and I think my noble friend the Minister agree, we must take action now and it must be really dramatic.

Russia: Sanctions

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I alluded to the expertise and insights in your Lordships’ House, and perhaps I should be posing this question to the noble and gallant Lord, who has great insight. The activities of the Russian state and those supported by the Russian state already include such things as the noble Lord alluded to. That has seen some action being taken by the United Kingdom and our key allies and partners. What is very clear is that the physical movement of troops—again, the noble and gallant Lord will know this far better than I—is a real statement of what may come next. To just pass it off as military manoeuvres when the whole of the eastern borders of Ukraine have over 100,000 Russian troops in occupancy is a great cause for concern. Therefore, what we are seeking to do through the Statement, and, importantly, through the widening of legislation and action—be it economic action—is to demonstrate to Russia the real willingness of the alliance and our partners within NATO and Europe to stand up against such further aggression.

As I said, eight years ago Crimea was annexed illegally. No further attempts were made to withdraw troops. I went to Ukraine before Christmas, and saw the anxiety. The massing of troops in Belarus, not that far from Kiev, is causing particular concern, and it is important that we make Statements accordingly. However, behind those Statements must be concerted action.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, following on from what the noble Lord, Lord Browne, said, when the Soviet Union collapsed just over 30 years ago, people had very little private property. Within a decade, some people had riches beyond the dreams of avarice. Some of that was made legitimately, but a great deal was assets of the Russian state looted by gangsters. A lot of that money then came here. Why are we not pursuing unexplained wealth orders on these people? They have all the money in plain sight and we should be pursuing them now.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I praise my noble friend’s impeccable timing, as my dear and noble friend Lady Williams is sitting to my right. My noble friend talked about the issue of these unexplained wealth orders and we have acted. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked earlier about the detail. The same applies for sanctions or any other step that we may take. There is a positive, in that even those with the most sinister motives have, within the United Kingdom, the rule of law. We need to ensure that, whether we are talking of these orders or of sanctions, due process is followed, and with a robustness which allows those sanctions or orders to prevail. The Home Office takes this very seriously, as does the Home Secretary. I assure my noble friend that we will act accordingly.

Ukraine: Minsk II Protocol

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, NATO is a defensive alliance. It was interesting to hear in the recent Statement of my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary—this is relevant to what we are discussing—that only 1/16th of the Russian border is actually shared with a NATO country. NATO is a defensive alliance, and it remains so. It is serving its purpose. We are working in unity, because what is required now is not just unity of words —it is unity of purpose and, indeed, unity of action.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I have just been to a meeting with the Ukrainian ambassador, where we discussed the Budapest memorandum. These were assurances given by the Russian Federation in 1994 that it would respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, which, of course, included the borders with Crimea. Putin has reneged on this. Should the international community not come together and condemn this bad faith from Putin and now the Russian Federation, and do it both at the United Nations and elsewhere?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that what we have seen from Russia is pure aggression. We should not forget that it is an occupying power in Crimea. We have come together; we are acting together within the context of the NATO alliance. My noble friend importantly points to discussions at the UN, and I assure him that we are engaging directly with partners but also bilaterally with Russia.

Diplomatic Influence Post Brexit

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 12th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

My Lords, Germany is an essential ally and one of our most important international partners. The new German coalition Government described the UK as one of Germany’s closest partners just a few days ago. Wherever it is in our common interests, the UK works extremely closely with the European Union, as noble Lords would expect, on security, counterterror and a whole range of different issues. The noble Lord asks where in particular we have led in recent months or years. The most obvious area relates to climate change, where we have galvanised the European Union into a position that greatly exceeds the position it held only 12 months ago.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Can my noble friend the Minister tell the House what our effective political influence actually was when we attended these political co-operation meetings as a member of the EU? For instance, what was said when we suggested that Nord Stream 2 was not a good idea?

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord makes a really important point. We have always been concerned that Nord Stream 2—it is an obvious thing to say—risks entrenching European energy dependence on Russia and undermining Ukraine’s security. The noble Lord raises a broader point, and in the areas where I work in government, particularly in the department for the environment, it is not only the case that we have not lost a seat at the table by leaving the European Union; we have gained a seat at the table. In forums such as CITES, the UK is able to influence votes and actual outcomes in a way that we were never able to before, because we had to pool our voice with a whole bunch of other countries that did not always agree with us.

Charities: Landmines

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Monday 15th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The legacy in Vietnam of live mines that are still in place is appalling, of course. I know that our funding has been valued by the Vietnamese Government and the Vietnamese people, and has helped to support wider diplomatic objectives. I cannot make any commitments on funding today, other than to say that those decisions that were recently made are being reviewed. I hope they will be reviewed as quickly as possible and that we will be able to continue the work that this House is rightly proud of.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, some 15 years ago I was chairman of the Halo Trust, which has been mentioned, and a very good organisation it was too. I was also on the DfID Select Committee for some six years. I have seen that not all international aid from Britain is well spent: a lot of it ends up in overseas bank accounts, fast cars and weaponry. However, the Halo Trust got the money and spent it on exactly what it said it would. I plead with my noble friend, when the Government review it, to look at what is achieved. I saw the Halo Trust achieving fantastic things around the world.

[Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)]

The noble Lord is right. There will never be enough public money to resolve the various issues we are committed to help resolve around the world—this being an important one, but just one. It is incumbent on us to ensure that, when we invest money, it is invested as well as it can be. The point he makes about the Halo Trust is a view that I know is shared by colleagues in the Foreign Office. I will convey his words back to colleagues.

Russia: Gas Supplies

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the specific point about Nord Stream 2, our position is consistent: we believe that it destabilises the continent of Europe due to its reliance on it. Recent events have also indicated its heavy reliance on a single source of supply and the insecurity that that can bring. We are working with key partners on this issue, but we are very clear on what our position is.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I should declare a sort of interest, in that that nice man Mr Putin has banned me from going to Russia. I think the Government accept how serious the situation is, but the Minister should know that Putin will judge us by our actions, not our words. So does he think it is sensible for the United Kingdom at the moment to be reducing its Army by 11% and reducing the number of its surface warships and aircraft, or does he think that President Putin will look at us and say that that shows weakness?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s first point, I will be sure to relay that to the Prime Minister and raise directly the concerns about him not being able to visit Russia. On the serious point about our military presence, as my noble friend will be aware, we have exercised our full support to Ukraine, including the deployment of vessels to the region in order to ensure security for international waters, and we strongly support the Ukrainian position on territorial sovereignty and integrity.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord articulates the position very clearly; we should not focus on seeking to join the two issues. We do not believe that there is any reason for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe to be detained in Iran, which is why we continue to implore the Iranians to ensure her early release and continue to campaign on that very principle.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, we cannot join these two things together, but this is about a hostage who has been taken. If she is released for some money, there will be another issue and the Iranians will take another hostage for another reason.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend articulates the position very well and I agree with him.

China: Muslims

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Wednesday 16th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

As the noble Baroness will be aware, I am fully cognisant of the suppression of freedom of religion or belief in Xinjiang and more widely in China, particularly as regards specific minorities, as the noble Baroness articulated. On organ harvesting, I have engaged directly with Sir Geoffrey Nice and, as noble Lords will be aware, have taken up the issue with the World Health Organization. We continue to monitor the situation. It remains the Government’s position that, if true, the practice of systematic state-sponsored organ harvesting would constitute a serious violation and an egregious abuse of human rights.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, the West has, sadly, very little influence over the policies of China, but we should recall the propaganda triumph that the Berlin Olympics of 1936 gave the Hitler regime, whereas the boycott of the Moscow Olympics in 1980 made them a somewhat damp squib. Could my noble friend encourage other ministries and, indeed, other countries, to look at boycotting the Winter Olympics in China next February?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as my noble friend is aware from his own insights and experience, I cannot comment specifically on any boycott of the Olympic Games; that is very much a matter for the independent Olympic committee. But I am sure everyone will consider the situation on the ground in any decisions that they make.