Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 27th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I have a number of interests to declare. I am a non-executive director of MHS Homes, chair of the Heart of Medway Housing Association, a vice-president of the Local Government Association and a leaseholder.

I welcome the Bill, but there is a big “but”. It represents limited progress. The next Parliament will have to return to the issue of leasehold reform to liberate leaseholders, deliver on commitments made and deliver justice for them.

I pay tribute to the campaigners outside Parliament, who have never given up. They include the National Leasehold Campaign, led by Councillor Katie Kendrick, Jo Darbyshire and Cath Williams; and the Leasehold Knowledge Partnership, led by Sebastian O’Kelly, Martin Boyd and my good friend, the campaigner Liam Spender. They will deliver justice for leaseholders.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, talked about the Lloyd George Budget of 1909. The noble Lord, Lord Bailey, talked about 1966. There is a fantastic play called “Fleecehold”, by Michele Sheldon. If it is on, I urge noble Lords to go and see it. In one scene, in 1884, Henry Broadhurst, a Liberal, and then Labour Member of Parliament for various Midlands constituencies, discusses leases on the Floor of the House of Commons. This has been a long-term problem, which we have still not sorted out. Many Members of Parliament have also stood up for leaseholders. I pay tribute to the noble Lords, Lord Young of Cookham and Lord Best, and many others who have raised these issues time and again.

It is most frustrating to look at the timeline of events and actions taken in more recent times. I have a few examples to share with the House. The fire at Grenfell Tower broke out on 14 June 2017—just short of seven years ago. We have still not resolved issues arising from that tragedy. It is not right that there are people living in blocks whose flats are unsaleable and unmortgageable. There is no excuse for it. It is a complete failure by the Government, on their watch. Does the Minister think this is acceptable? When will they finally do something about it?

There has been a complete lack of action following the report of the Regulation of Property Agents working group, chaired by the noble Lord, Lord Best. It was published in July 2019, towards the end of the last Parliament. We are now at the end of this Parliament, and nothing has happened. This Bill is the ideal place to deal with it, but there is nothing in it. This is just not good enough. Nothing has happened in five years. Can the Minister explain why this is acceptable?

Three Law Commission reports were published in July 2020 on leasehold enfranchisement, the right to manage and commonhold. It is good that this Bill largely addresses leasehold enfranchisement, but there is very little on the right to manage and nothing on commonhold. Again, can the Minister explain why this is acceptable? We have been waiting nearly seven years to complete the job on Grenfell and nearly five years without any action on regulating property agents; and it is nearly four years since the Law Commission report, in which nothing was done about commonhold. Telling this House that this is all extremely complicated and will take time is not acceptable. We have been waiting for action for years, without promises being delivered.

It has been frustrating to watch the right honourable Member for Surrey Heath tour the television studios and radio stations, speak to newspapers, give interviews about what he wants to do to end the feudal leasehold system, make promises, pledges and commitments, and give assurances and undertakings. The noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham, referred to letters and to a Statement in the House of Commons. These have amounted to absolutely nothing.

When I spoke to a member of the Government privately, they said: “Well, Roy, you must understand that this is what Michael does.” Another member of the Government said: “Roy, everything you want to do, Michael wants to do, but you have to understand, he has been vetoed by No. 10. His plans are now shot to pieces. It is all over.” I do not know if this is true or not, but going around making promises and pledges with no agreement to deliver them is shoddy politics. There will be a heavy price to pay. Making promises and pledges without delivering is stringing people along. It is just not good enough.

I will look at a few of the issues that are missing from the Bill. There is no ban on creating leasehold flats. Why not? Seventy per cent of leaseholds are for flats, but there is nothing in the Bill at all. The answer, as the noble Lord, Lord Bailey of Paddington, said, is commonhold. Why it is not there? The Government have had the report from the Law Commission for four years. Why are they not dealing with it?

There are other issues that are just not happening. There is the stuff about the Building Safety Act; again, after Grenfell, why are they not doing that? I just do not understand why. There was also a Conservative Party manifesto commitment on forfeiture in 2017, but it is not in the Bill. Why not? It is ridiculous. We are going to be putting it in the Bill; we will certainly have amendments on that one. Forfeiture can happen for as little as £350 in unpaid rent or service charges. If pursued to its conclusion, the process allows the landlord to take the tenant’s entire flat and not account to the tenant for a penny. Any mortgage is not repaid and the lender can pursue the tenant for the full amount of the debt. I accept that very few flats or houses are lost to forfeiture, but the whole process is used to bully tenants—the people in the properties—and it is just not right. They made that commitment in 2017 and it is about time they delivered it.

I move on to a few other issues. My noble friend Lady Twycross mentioned the assured shorthold tenancy trap. She was up on the ballot for a Private Member’s Bill; she got it and was then approached by the Government, who assured her: “You don’t need to do this Private Member’s Bill because we’re going to do it in a renters reform Bill”. But the Renters (Reform) Bill has disappeared. It started in the House of Commons before this Bill did, but it is still not out of that House. At the moment, it has vanished without trace. My noble friend was told there was no need for her to do it, so I hope that the Government will deal with the issue in this Bill, because we cannot guarantee that the other Bill will ever appear in this House. We know there have been all sorts of problems with people upset about what is in that Bill, so we certainly need to ensure that it is addressed here.

What there is on leasehold houses is absolutely welcome, but there are still some issues about that. It was introduced in the House of Commons only on Report; remember, it was left out of the Bill when it was first published, so it came in then. There are one or two little problems. Clause 7 and part 1 of Schedule 1, paragraph 1, together allow new leasehold houses to be created as under leases or sub-leases. An example may be where a local authority granted a head lease to a developer before 22 December 2017; the developer could still create leasehold houses. In Clause 7 and part 1 of Schedule 1, paragraph 3 allows the creation of new retirement leasehold houses, regardless of whether they are built on freehold land. Again, that issue has been raised elsewhere, but why are some of the most vulnerable in our society not protected? That is another big issue we need to deal with.

Then there is the control of service charges. In many cases, with great property companies and good freeholders, it all works absolutely fine. Sadly, of course, that is not always the case and we need further reform. It was 50 years ago that there was talk in the other place about reform to service charges; we still do not have that matter sorted out, and much of the of the detail in Part 4, which deals with service charges, is left to statutory instruments—secondary legislation. There is very little detail in the Bill.

Clause 51 extends information rights to properties paying a fixed service charge. The clause does not allow for extending the right to challenge unreasonable service charges. I can assure your Lordships that leaseholders know when they are being ripped off. When things are bad, they know. So, while it is great to get some information, what they need are the tools to actually stop it. The Bill does not do that.

Clause 54 creates a new system of accounts and annual reports. Again, that is to be welcomed, but we need to go further. Clause 56 introduces a new right to claim damages of up to £5,000; again, we need clarity on what that actually means. There are two issues: we all know that “damages” has a specific legal meaning. The clause may not provide an effective remedy to claim money for delay where the leaseholder is unable to prove loss. That needs to be addressed in Committee. It is also unclear whether the clause allows each affected leaseholder to claim up to £5,000, or whether it is just £5,000 for the leaseholders as a collective body. There are many issues we need to explore in Committee.

Part 4 of the Bill requires landlords and estate managers to join an approved redress scheme, but much of the detail is missing and the Secretary of State will determine who is obliged to join by regulations, which we have not seen yet. This change is welcome, but there are still issues.

On the whole issue of commencement and interpretation, many provisions will be commenced by regulation at a later date. The Bill has 123 clauses and 12 schedules. Only four clauses will come into force two months after the Bill is passed. The rest of it will come into play when the Secretary of State determines. When will that be? We do not know. We have not got the regulations here; we do not have visibility on any dates. So, again, we need some more assurances. Even if the Bill passes, most of it will not come into force until you decide you are going to bring it in. We need to be careful about this. We need a clear timetable for when this stuff is going to come into force. I think it is really important. There are many cases, on the issue of marriage values, of leases that are approaching 80 years now. This needs to be resolved for them in particular.

So, as I said when I started, I welcome the Bill. It is progress, but it is very limited progress. We need much more progress here in Committee. I hope the Government will listen to what the House is saying and bring amendments forward. If not, certainly colleagues around the House will bring amendments forward and we will divide the House on those.

I will spend a bit of time working on what I call the “Gove amendments”—that is, all the pledges Michael Gove has made over the last few years. I will create amendments and divide the House for him, so he can actually deliver what he wants to do. It is really important that, if you make these promises and pledges, you actually want to do that. I am sure he does want to do it, so I am disappointed we have not got there. I am going to help the Secretary of State in that way and make sure that the House gets the chance to vote. Then he can have the chance to speak up for them when they get to the House of Commons. I will leave my remarks there and look forward to the noble Baroness’s response.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to close this debate and to reflect on the many thoughtful contributions that we have heard. I thank all noble Lords for their engagement with the Bill thus far, and especially all noble Lords who met me before this debate to discuss their concerns. As the Bill progresses, I am keen to continue engaging. If any noble Lords would like a briefing, please get in touch. I will put further dates forward ahead of Committee, and of course noble Lords can ask for a meeting at any time, and I will try and accommodate them.

I have heard that some noble Lords would like to see what is in the Bill clarified and improved. Other noble Lords want to see it go further still, and I look forward to engaging with them on all those issues as the Bill comes to its Committee. That said, listening to this debate, I am also struck by the strength of consensus among noble Lords that the system of leasehold needs reform. I will now seek to address all noble Lords’ points in turn.

The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, began the debate and set out her wide range of concerns, particularly those areas where she expects to bring forward amendments. I am grateful to her for her engagement and her work with the Bill so far; I look forward to continuing this as the Bill progresses. I will turn right away to the Government’s position on ground rents, on which she and noble Lords right across the House, including my noble friend Lord Moylan and the noble Lords, Lord Adonis and Lord Palmer, courteously asked for updates.

I understand the strength of feeling about this issue and the level of interest, given its size. We are aware that reforms to protect leaseholders will have a negative impact on those who benefit from ground-rent income, and are carefully considering this as we formulate our policy. That is why we are studying the recently closed consultation very carefully. Next steps will be set out in due course to this House as soon as I am able to do so.

I also want to address the specific point made by noble Lord, Lord Adonis, about the ECHR. The Government consider that all provisions in the Bill are compatible with the relevant convention rights; and that, in the case of provisions regarding Article 8 and A1P1, any interferences are justified and proportionate.

The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, also had a specific question about marriage value, setting deferment rates in primary, rather than secondary, legislation. My noble friend Lord Borwick also raised this point. I understand their concerns, but we do not feel that setting rates on the face of the Bill would be appropriate. The Government absolutely recognise that careful consideration is needed on how to set rates, and that many different elements need to be considered when setting them. We have been clear that we will set the rates at market value to ensure that the amount landlords are compensated reflects their legitimate property interests, and we have had active conversations with relevant stakeholders. Ultimately, the Secretary of State’s flexibility to make these decisions is paramount, and we will continue these conversations. I welcome any further views that noble Lords might have on this matter.

I will come to the overall principle of marriage-value reform shortly, but with regard to the specific points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, and the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, about the online calculator, it is an important issue, and I can confirm that the Government absolutely remain committed to launching this. This will help leaseholders understand how much it will cost to extend their lease or acquire their freehold up front. However, before we can launch such a vital tool and make a true success of it, we must first pass the Bill, so that the online calculator reflects the final provisions of the reforms in the Bill.

I turn now to the central issue that the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, and many others raised: the future of the leasehold market. The Bill delivers our manifesto commitment to ban new leases of houses. Once commenced, other than in exceptional circumstances, new houses will have to be sold as freehold. I know that noble Lords across the Chamber, including the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, have expressed particular interest in the exceptions where a lease might still be justified, such as shared ownership, which helps consumers take their first step on the property ladder, or National Trust land where the freehold cannot be sold on. We expect a developer to prove it through the new steps included in the Bill. We believe that each can be justified, but we will keep a close eye on the market, and will not shy away from using the powers in the Bill to tighten or remove exceptions if required.

I turn now to the issue of banning leasehold flats, not just houses. The majority of houses have always been provided as freehold. There are few justifications for building new leasehold houses, so this Government will ban them. Flats, on the other hand, have shared fabric and infrastructure, and therefore require some form of arrangement to facilitate management. This has historically been facilitated by a lease.

None the less, the Government recognise the issues in the leasehold system, and I have heard the concerns from the noble Baronesses, Lady Taylor, Lady Thornhill and Lady Andrews, my noble friends Lady Finn and Lord Bailey and many other noble Lords regarding a lack of commonhold measures as a meaningful alternative to replacing leasehold for flats. I want to reassure your Lordships that the Government remain committed to commonhold reform and that we see it as a long-term replacement for leasehold.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

The Government have now had the report from the Law Commission for four years. I think the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, who is not in her place at the moment, raised the question: how much longer do they need?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

As I think I have said to the noble Lord many times from this Dispatch Box, this is a complicated issue. I think there are about 121 recommendations in the Law Commission’s framework and we just have not had the time to go through them. However, this takes us a good way towards commonhold for the future.

The Law Commission did fantastic work to review the commonhold framework, and, as I said, it set out 121 separate detailed recommendations on how to modernise it. I appreciate the points from the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, about commonhold and his frustration that these reforms have not come forward. However, these are not trivial changes. Implementing them requires detailed consideration. It is a complex policy, and to make sure we get it right and so that commonhold does not fail to take off for a second time, we will take the time required to make it work. We will therefore set out our response to the Law Commission’s report as soon as that work is concluded.

On the comments made by the noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, my noble friends Lady Finn and Lord Moylan and many others about leasehold rights to manage, managing a large or complex building is not an easy feat, especially meeting building safety requirements, and some leaseholders may simply not want this responsibility. That is why the Government believe that leaseholders should therefore have the choice to manage their buildings, which they now do. The Bill delivers the most impactful of the Law Commission’s recommendations on right to manage, including increasing the non-residential limit to 50% in mixed-use buildings to give more leaseholders the right to take over management, and changing the rules to make each party pay their own process and litigation costs. These measures will help existing leaseholders now and save them many thousands of pounds into the future.

The Government recognise that the participation threshold of one-half can frustrate leaseholders if they cannot reach it. However, we agree with the Law Commission that the threshold is proportionate and ensures that a minority of leaseholders are prevented from acquiring the freehold against the wishes of the majority of leaseholders in the building. We are therefore very clear that we should hold the participation requirement at half of the total number of residential units in the premises.

The noble Baroness, Lady Thornhill, my noble friend Lord Moylan and many others have also made powerful arguments that the creation of new freehold estates must end, and that local authorities should be compelled to adopt all communal facilities on a new estate. It is up to the developers and the local planning authority to agree on specific issues relating to new development, including appropriate funding and maintenance arrangements. That said, we are carefully considering the findings and the recommendations of the Competition and Markets Authority report to address the issue that home owners on these estates face.

On the questions from the noble Baronesses, Lady Taylor and Lady Thornhill, about expanding the right to manage regime to cover the residents of freehold estates, the Government recognise the benefits that the right to manage regime on freehold estates would bring, empowering home owners to manage and take a greater control of the estate on which they live. However, there would be many detailed practical issues to work through to deliver this, which would all require careful handling since they affect property rights and existing contract law. Instead, we have introduced measures in this Bill to empower home owners and make estate management companies more accountable to them for how their money is spent, including the ability to apply to the appropriate tribunal to appoint a substitute manager.

The noble Lord, Lord Best, spoke extensively and eloquently about the regulation of property agents, which my noble friend Lord Young, the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, and many others, supported. This Government remain committed to driving up professionalisation and standards among property agents. We welcome the ongoing work being undertaken by the industry and others to drive up standards across the sector, including on codes of practice for property agents. I put on record my sincere thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Best, and the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, for their valuable work on this issue. However, as a Secretary of State made clear at Second Reading, legislating to set up a new regulator would require significant additional legislative time of a kind that we simply do not have in the lifetime of this Parliament.

On cost, the Government believe that any regulation can and should be done in an appropriate and proportionate way that controls the cost to business. Managing agents must already belong to a redress scheme and leaseholders may apply to the tribunal to appoint a manager to provide services in cases of serious management failure. The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill will make it easier for leaseholders to scrutinise costs and challenge services provided by landlords and property managing agents, and ultimately for them to take on management of the buildings themselves, where they can directly appoint or replace agents. These measures, alongside existing protections and work undertaken by the industry, will seek to make property managing agents more accountable to the leaseholders who pay for their services.

The valuable work on the regulation done by the noble Lord, Lord Best, remains on the table, but this Bill is tightly focused on the fundamental improvements for leaseholders. These, alongside our building safety reforms, already make this a time of great change for managing agents, necessitating higher standards across the sector. We continue to listen and look carefully at the issues that Members across the House are raising on this.

My noble friend Lord Young spoke specifically about forfeiture, as did the noble Baronesses, Lady Taylor and Lady Twycross, my noble friend Lord Bailey and many others. As I said in my opening remarks, the Government recognise that this is a real and significant problem. There is huge inequity at stake. We have heard from colleagues today about why we should act. We think it is the job of government to go away and work through the detail of this, which we are doing. We will report back to the House shortly with more details as we consider the matter further.

My noble friend Lord Young, the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, and many others, raised several concerns about building safety, which I will try to address in some detail. The Government understand that many individuals are frustrated with the distinction between qualifying and non-qualifying leaseholders. We have been clear that the primary responsibility for resolving issues in buildings requiring remediation is with those who caused them. In circumstances where it does not prove possible to recover the cost of remediation from the developer, we have established a threshold that strikes a balance between leaseholders and landlords as to who should be paying for the costs of remediation. No leaseholder, whether qualifying or non-qualifying, can be charged more than they otherwise would have been in the absence of the leaseholder protections for costs relating to historical building safety defects.

A range of support is in place for leaseholders whose lease does not qualify for protection. All residential buildings above 11 metres in England now have a pathway to fix unsafe cladding, through either a taxpayer-funded scheme or a developer-funded scheme. With regard to buildings under 11 metres, it is generally accepted that the risk to life from fire is proportionate to the height of the building. Therefore, the risk to life from historic fire safety defects in buildings under 11 metres will require remediation only in exceptional circumstances.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

We have taken the issue of human life as the important one. I think we will have further debates on 11 metres as we go through the Bill. I am conscious of time; if the noble Earl does not mind, we will deal with those matters in Committee.

Given the number of small buildings under 11 metres that need remediation, our assessment remains that extending leaseholder protections to below 11 metres is neither necessary nor proportionate, as I think the noble Baroness has heard many times before.

Regarding my noble friend Lord Young’s issue about enfranchised leaseholders, the Government decided that the leaseholder protection provisions in Part 5 of the Building Safety Act would not apply to leaseholder-owned buildings. That was because the freehold to the building is de facto owned by all or some of the residents who, as leaseholders, have collectively enfranchised and would still have to pay to remedy the safety defects in their buildings. However, leaseholders in those buildings, either individually or collectively, can pursue developers and their associated companies via a remediation contribution order for funds that they have spent or will spend remediating their buildings for relevant defects.

I turn to joint ownership. This Government understand that individuals are frustrated with the distinction between leaseholders who own properties jointly and those who do so independently. We are listening carefully to feedback from stakeholders on this matter. We have also published a call for evidence on jointly owned leasehold properties, which was launched on 22 March; this will enable the Government to understand the scale of the issue and consider whether any further changes can be proposed.

The noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, asked about development value. I am very grateful to her for engaging with me beforehand about this issue. I can say to the noble Baroness, as she acknowledged, that we committed to enabling leaseholders voluntarily to agree to a restriction on future development of their property to avoid paying development value as part of the collective enfranchisement claim. We are consulting on making changes to the existing permitted development right and are seeking views on whether sufficient mitigation is in place to limit potential impacts on leaseholders. I urge the noble Baroness to contribute her views to that consultation before it closes on 9 April. When it closes, the Government will carefully consider and review all the responses and see how the regime can be improved.

I was very sorry to hear of the personal difficulties of the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, when purchasing his freehold, and I hope that the reforms in this Bill will address the issues he raised. With regard to the point that he and my noble friend Lord Bailey raised on service charges, the level of service charges that leaseholders pay will depend on many factors, such as the terms of the lease and the age and condition of the building. This means that the cost of things such as repairs, maintenance of common areas and management of the building will differ considerably. The transparency and redress reforms in this Bill will empower leaseholders to take action against any unreasonable costs.

As well as speaking extensively about building safety issues, the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, made a compelling case for thinking about leasehold from the perspective of consumer protections. The Government are committed to improving consumer protections against abuse and poor service from landlords, managing agents and freehold estate managers. That is why we will set a maximum time and fee for the provision of information as part of the sales process for leasehold homes and those homes encumbered by estate management charges, and introduce rights of transparency over service charges, extended access to redress schemes and reform of legal costs. We consider that it is a powerful package of consumer rights and reforms, and, following Royal Assent, we will make sure that appropriate guidance is available for consumers. None the less, I look forward to meeting the noble Earl after Easter to discuss how this package can be further improved and well implemented.

The noble Lord, Lord Palmer, the noble Baroness, Lady Bray, and my noble friend Lord Howard asked about the Government’s policy on marriage value. Any suggestion of retaining marriage value—wholesale or in limited circumstances—would be counter to our aim of making it cheaper and easier for leaseholders to extend their lease or acquire their freehold. Such proposals would risk both perpetuating and creating a two-tier system—eroding the benefits that the Government are delivering through the Bill. Removing marriage value and hope value will deliver a level playing field and wide access for leaseholders who may otherwise find it prohibitively expensive to extend their lease or purchase their freehold. Our wider reforms to enfranchisement value will ensure that sufficient compensation is paid to landlords to reflect their legitimate property interests.

The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester spoke about the positive contribution that charities make to our society, which this Government wholly recognise. He asked specifically about exemptions from our reforms for charity. Although well-meaning, attempting to created carve-outs for specific groups of landlords—for example, charities—would complicate the system that we aim to simplify and would risk both perpetuating and creating a two-tier system. We appreciate the engagement that the right reverend Prelate has conducted with us so far and hope that we can continue that engagement on issues that we know, and he knows, are significant.

The noble Baroness, Lady Twycross, and the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, brought up the renters Bill and assured tenancies. We are aware that leaseholders with ground rents of more than £250 per year can be legally regarded as assured tenants. In the Renters (Reform) Bill, we are addressing this problem by removing all leaseholders with a lease longer than seven years from the assured tenancy system. That Bill is progressing through Parliament, and our priority is to pass this vital legislation before the end of this Parliament.

The noble Lord, Lord Khan, brought up the issue of the Commonhold Council. The council has met regularly since it was established in 2021 and last met in September. The Government are currently reviewing the Law Commission’s proposal to reform the legal framework for commonhold and plan to reconvene the group ahead of finalising their response to the Law Commission.

If I have missed any other specific issues raised, I can only apologise. A tremendous amount has been said in this session—all of great value—and I reiterate my commitment to meeting any Member of this House who wishes to discuss the Bill further after Easter. I hope that is acceptable to the House.

The Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill will deliver on the Government’s 2019 manifesto commitments, promoting fairness and transparency in the residential leasehold sector. I look forward to working with noble Lords during the passage of this most important Bill.

I have noted forfeiture, commonhold, the regulation of property agents, marriage value, ground rent and service charges as areas of serious interest to noble Lords, although others of equal importance have been raised. I am sure noble Lords will recognise that this is a very long list and there is little time remaining in the parliamentary Session. However, we are listening and looking carefully at what can be done on all those things.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

Before the Minister sits down, although I am frustrated about the Bill, I have great respect for her and look forward to our debates in Committee. I particularly asked about commencement, because this is a Bill of 123 clauses and 15 schedules, and only the issues on rent charges and three parts of the Building Safety Act are going to be brought into force after two months. Nothing is being brought in on Part 1, on leasehold houses, Part 2, on leasehold enfranchisement and extension, Part 3, on the rights of long leaseholders, Part 4, on the regulation of leasehold, Part 5, on the regulation of estate management, or Part 6, on redress schemes. Basically, about 95% of the Bill is not going to come into force until a date that the Secretary of State determines. As in my earlier remarks, I am a bit frustrated sometimes that what we should get from the Secretary of State does not materialise. Will the Minister write to me and be clear about when these are going to come into force? We need to know what date they are coming into force, otherwise all the promises amount to nothing.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I am happy to write to the noble Lord on this issue, and I will put a copy of that letter in the Library.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 22nd April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I have a number of interests to declare: first, as a leaseholder, secondly, as chair of the Heart of Medway Housing Association and, thirdly, as a non-executive director of MHS Homes Ltd.

I spoke at Second Reading and I am sure that, as we go through these few days in Committee, we will largely agree with each other that there is a major problem. We all want to see leasehold reform and commonhold reform. Everybody backs it. I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, back it. The problem is that we are not doing anything about it. That is the shame here.

The amendment from the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, absolutely takes us forward. She includes a day to end leasehold flats, which would deliver that Tory party manifesto commitment. We should all back her if, as I hope, she divides the House at the next stage. Her amendment would deliver the Tory party manifesto commitment, but will the Government support it? Of course not. We know that. We all agree in these debates, but what we will get from the Government Front Bench is, “When parliamentary time allows”, “The next steps will follow in due course”, “We are keeping it under review”, or “We will get back to you”. That is the problem.

This is a golden opportunity that the Government have completely failed to deal with. We have sat here for years. I have asked question after question. I have been assured, “It is coming” or “Don’t worry, don’t ask questions, we are going to sort it all out”. Yet here we are and what do we get? A Bill that delivers very little. On the point about service charges and transparency, I can assure the Government Front Bench that if a leaseholder has problems with the service charge, they know they have problems. What they want from the Government are the tools to sort them out. The Government have not delivered that. They can give more transparency—great, but we need the tools for the job and they are not doing that for us.

This is very frustrating. I think we will have lots of agreement but very little action. I hope that, when we get to Report, a number of amendments will be passed and many members of the Government will support us in delivering the commitments that their party made to leaseholders at the last general election. The amendments from the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley, in particular, are really good, giving an absolutely clear cut-off date.

My noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage asked the Government to set out their strategy for commonhold. What is it? I hope they can tell us. The current strategy seems to be, “We will get back to you. We know it is important, but we can’t do anything about it at the moment—sorry”. That is just not good enough. There are lots of great amendments here, but we need some action from the Government. I hope that, when we get to the next stage, we will divide the House many times. Where we have got to at the moment is just not good enough.

In 1880 Henry Broadhurst was elected as the Member of Parliament for Stoke-upon-Trent. He was then elected as a Member of Parliament for Nottingham West. He raised the problems of leasehold in the other place. We are still talking about them today. He was elected in 1880, and we have still made only limited progress. It is about time we made some progress here. We want more transparency and we want the Government to deliver their commitments. We want commonhold, and we want it now.

[The Earl of Lytton (CB)]

My Lords, I agree fundamentally with the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, and with what other noble Lords have said with regard to the desirability of a transition to commonhold. I say that because, apart from anything else, conventional leasehold has clearly got itself an extremely bad press. Like it or not, that is something we have to take account of. However, although it is poorly regarded among leaseholders, it happens to be the commercial preference and the model on which a great deal of leaseholder and freeholder value rests. We have to be a bit careful about that.

My interest here is very much about consumer protection. I do not want us to enter a brave new world in which the existing leasehold situation is seen as in any way second class. Comments are made about the evils of monetisation of the management process, but I think that is a slightly different issue. I do not see that as intrinsic in the tenure. I see that as an abuse, a lack of transparency and another area in which consumer protection has not operated.

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[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I forgot to mention earlier how much I support the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham. I think the last draft Bill we had here was the Modern Slavery Act. There was a draft Bill and a Joint Committee of both Houses on it. The work of that committee ironed out all the wrinkles; we got a much better Act of Parliament, and it had a much easier passage through both Houses. The committee was able to look at the issues and deal with them, which was really important.

It would be lovely to hear the Minister say that we will have a draft Bill for commonhold. Again, that would really help us. We could have a Joint Committee of both Houses that could take evidence and work through all the problems. Then, when we got the proper Bill, we would get it much more smoothly and easily through this House and the other House.

I suspect we will not get that, but it is the way forward. Having more draft legislation enables us to sort things out. The Law Commission has worked on the two other Bills we need. We would benefit from having draft Bill committees. It would be much easier for the Government and for everybody to get stuff through and to deal with the problems we all want to solve.

[Lord Khan of Burnley (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, for introducing this group of amendments. It has been a fantastic, constructive debate, with some excellent points made across the Committee. I do not want to repeat the arguments, but I will speak particularly to the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage, which many noble Lords have spoken about. I remind the Committee that this amendment would require the Government to set out a strategy for making commonhold the preferred alternative to leasehold, as recommended by the Law Commission in its report, Reinvigorating Commonhold: the Alternative to Leasehold Ownership.

The amendments in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bailey of Paddington, and the noble Baroness, Lady Fox of Buckley, are both important. They all point towards a particular focus: that commonhold should be the future. We should help the move towards commonhold; it is overdue. The Government have had 14 years to deliver and have broken their promises to leaseholders, as mentioned by my noble friend Lord Kennedy of Southwark. Let me remind the Committee that an incoming Labour Government would be left to pick up the pieces should we have the opportunity to serve.

On these Benches, our commitment, as reiterated by my noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage, is to have comprehensive leasehold reform, and this has not changed. We will bring forward ambitious legislation to enact all the Law Commission’s remaining recommendations at the earliest opportunity if we are privileged enough to serve.

The important point made by my noble friend Lord Kennedy about not having a strategy is why, on these Benches, we have brought forward an amendment asking for a strategy as part of this Bill. It has been so long; commonhold was introduced in 2002 as a way of enabling the freehold ownership of flats and avoiding the shortcomings of leasehold ownership. However, fewer than 20 commonhold developments have been established since the commonhold legislation came into force. Flats in England and Wales continue to be owned, almost inevitably, on a leasehold basis.

Unlike practice in most other countries across the world, flat owners in England and Wales continue to hold leasehold interests that will expire at some point in the future, and landlords make the key decisions about the management and costs of their buildings. Commonhold enables flats to be owned on a freehold basis, so that owners’ interests can last for ever and gives decision-making powers to home owners.

The Law Commission published its final report in July 2020, in which it makes numerous recommendations that seek to make commonhold not only a workable but a preferred form of home ownership to residential leasehold. Its recommendations include measures designed to make it easier for leaseholders to convert to common- hold and gain greater control over their properties; to enable commonhold to be used for larger, mixed-use developments that accommodate not only residential properties but shops, restaurants and leisure facilities; and to allow shared ownership leases to be included within commonhold. The recommendations would give owners a greater say in how the costs of running their commonhold are met, and ensure they have sufficient funds for future repairs and emergency work. They would provide owners with flexibility to change the commonhold’s rules, while improving the protections available to those affected by the change.

I ask the Government whether they disagree with the benefits I have just outlined? If they do not, why are they not doing this? That is the fundamental question from this debate that numerous noble Lords have alluded to. There was clearly some appetite for it a few years ago, so why are they not doing this? Have the Government changed their mind or are they just not brave enough to do it?

In May 2021, the Government had even established a Commonhold Council as a partnership of industry, leaseholders and government that would prepare home owners and the market for the widespread take-up of commonhold. I ask the Minister what has happened to that council. When did it last meet and how often does it meet?

It is widely accepted that, in terms of this Bill, we will not have commonhold brought in now. However, there is still much miscommunication around commonhold in the industry. There needs to be more education and an awareness campaign. As contributions have highlighted today, commonhold is so much easier. You do not have complex laws; you talk to one another and work problems and disputes out. You have meetings and laws are prescribed so that it is easy for people to know what to do at each step of the way. There are things that could be done with commonhold in this Bill to strengthen it and pave the way to commonhold happening en masse. The amendment in the name of my noble friend Lady Taylor would help the Government ensure that there is a strategy in this Bill and fulfil their manifesto promise, as mentioned previously. I commend the amendment in the name of my noble friend, and I look forward to hearing from the Minister.

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[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I do not have that detail with me, but I will make sure the noble Lord gets it.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

Can the Minister tell the Committee whether the Government have a strategy for commonhold?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

Yes. The noble Lord knows, and I have said it enough times at this Dispatch Box, that the Government fully support commonhold. It is a matter of getting through the complexities and ensuring that it is delivered in a safe, secure way for the future.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

It is good to hear that they have a strategy; maybe the Minister can explain to the Committee what the strategy is. All I see at the moment is that there is a lot of support for commonhold—everyone is committed to it and wants to bring it in in due course—but I would like to see some sort of timeline. When are we going to get it? They will have had this report from the Law Commission for four years in July. Where is the plan? If they had a plan they could set out for the Committee, I am sure they would get a lot of support from us here, but the worry is that we will be sitting here in another four years. What is the plan from the Government?

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

I am sorry, but I asked a couple of questions there and I am hoping for a response.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I am sorry, but I have made it very clear that the Government are fully in support. I am trying to remember whether it was 219 or 120, but large numbers of amendments were required to be put into place to ensure that, while we have commonhold in this country now, it can be delivered across all our leasehold flats. We do not have the time on this Bill to do that amount of legal work, and that is why we are not promising it at present, but we want to get as far along that journey to commonhold as we possibly can within the Bill.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

But we are not, are we? That is the whole point. We are not getting anywhere, just making commitments and promises with no timescale, no plan, nothing. That is the problem and why we are getting so frustrated here. They have had the Law Commission report for four years. What have they been doing for the last four years?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

Working on getting towards commonhold, which is what the Government want for this sector.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

The noble Baroness will obviously know this really well, then: how many more years do we need before we get a Bill to deliver this?

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I do not think I have anything further to add.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, the purpose of Amendment 13 in my name was to encourage a debate on commonhold and the route to achieving it, and in that it has been successful. I am pleased about that and thank all noble Lords for their involvement. It has been a long time since the first legislative proposal was made to abolish leasehold. I think it was in the Liberal Government of 1906, so we are going back a long way.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

It was 1880, with Henry Broadhurst.

[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

I do not think that that was a legislative proposal—I was very careful in the words I used. What this debate has achieved is that it is very clear across the Committee that there is overwhelming support for the move to commonhold. That is very positive. The next achievement is that it has brought forward three different ways, or perhaps four, in which the Government can move. One is a draft Bill, which seems to me to be a very interesting proposal and one that again I think would get support across the House, because the move to commonhold is complex. I and everybody else who has spoken accept that, so let us find a way of working together to achieve that common end.

The second proposal was a “Let’s get something done” type of proposal for a sunset clause. If nothing else happens, let us adopt that. The third proposal, from the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, was similar to a draft Bill: to get the Government to agree a draft strategy. Unfortunately, the Minister used the phrase “in due course” a number of times. The trouble with “in due course” is that the due course can go on for a very long time, as it has already. Some of us are concerned to enable all existing leaseholders to achieve commonhold and be part of home ownership. The party opposite always talks about that, so you would think it is in its interest to push it. That is why it is very disappointing to hear the Minister say “in due course” and, “We are considering the recommendations of the Law Commission”, which was four years ago now.

Finally, we have heard from various Members on the Labour Benches that, if they ever have the privilege to serve—that is the phrase they are using—this will happen quickly. I look forward to maybe 2025 when we might see whether the Minister will bring forward a proposal for a draft Bill on commonhold or whether somebody from the Labour Benches will do so, in which case we will make progress. We on these Benches will hold both parties to account if they fail to do that at the earliest possible moment. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 24th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

It would be extraordinary, though possible, if fellow leaseholders could invoke forfeiture but the freeholder could not. That would be incredible, and I am sure it would have all its own problems.

The point remains that, if you keep some kind of forfeiture, freeholders will want to keep hold of that power, because it is exactly that: an unfettered, threatening power, which leaseholders speak about as though it is mythical, like a dragon that will burn you if you stand up to the freeholder. Words fail me when I try to describe how forfeiture must go. We have had many conversations in which the word “feudal” has been bandied about. This is one occasion where it has real meaning. Forfeiture should and must go.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, first, I declare a number of interests to the House. I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association, the chair of the Heart of Medway Housing Association, a non-executive director at MHS Homes Group, and a leaseholder.

Before the Bill arrived, it promised a lot. As it stands it is doing much less than that, so in a sense it is a fairly timid Bill. However, some of the things it does are actually very useful. I support the amendment of my noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage on forfeiture; it needs to be abolished. I have also listened to the noble Lords, Lord Truscott and Lord Bailey, and both make very valid points. The Government should listen and bring an amendment that addresses the points they made. That is not impossible, as far as I can see; it is absolutely right that there should be some remedy to deal with this.

Equally, we cannot have people being bullied into paying the service charge or ground rent; that it totally wrong. There must be remedies to deal with those things: if someone is owed money, they should get it, but forfeiture—losing their entire asset—is ridiculous. I hope that, on both points, which are extremely valid, the Government say to us that they hear what people are saying and that they will look at this issue and come back with amendments.

I want to ensure that people can enjoy their property without being annoyed by parties, noise and other trouble, and that there is a remedy to enforce that if need be. Equally, if someone has a freeholder coming after them, they could actually lose their property, or, worse, the freeholder could use their service charge or ground rent to take them to court. We need to deal with all these things.

I hope that, at the end of what will probably be a fairly short debate, the Government will recognise that there is a problem here and will help us by bringing back an amendment to deal with these issues; or, as the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, said, that they will get people together around the table to try to sort this out. The Bill is not doing much, but this is something very positive it could do.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

I have said that it is not the right way of doing it, and we want a different way. That is exactly what the Government are looking at.

We have to be clear that the upkeep and safety of buildings is also paramount. Landlords, be they third parties or resident management companies, need effective mechanisms for securing prompt payment to ensure that those properties are insured and maintained in the interests of everybody else in the block.

We recognise that there is the potential for significant inequity at hand where a landlord stands to gain a windfall when a lease is forfeited. However, I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, and the Committee that the Government have been listening to calls for us to act. The Government continue to work through the detail and we will report to the House shortly with more information. In the meantime, I welcome members of the Committee sharing their views on this matter, which the Government will reflect on when formulating their position.

In addition, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, for Amendment 95, which seeks to abolish Section 121 of the Law of Property Act 1925 in respect of all rent charges. Let me be clear: the Government are sympathetic to the issue raised by the noble Baroness. We recognise that forfeiture is an extreme measure and should be used only as a last resort. Any changes will require careful consideration of the rights and responsibilities of all interested parties.

Clause 111 already seeks to abolish forfeiture for income-supporting rent charges, which are still in existence, even though the creation of new charges of this nature has been banned since 1977. However, some types of rent charges may still be created, including estate rent charges, which are used for the provision of services on managed estates.

Where they are created, estate management companies need a means to recover sums owed to them. Failure to do so means that costs may fall on other home owners, or the upkeep of an estate will worsen, to the detriment of everyone living on that estate. The problem may be particularly acute for resident-led management companies which do not have alternative sources of funding.

It is important that we fully understand any unintended consequences. This is an issue that we are carefully considering. I hope that, with those assurances, the noble Baroness will withdraw her amendment.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, most of what she said was very welcome. The acceptance that forfeiture is draconian, unfair and open to abuse—we agree with that. It is not the right way to do things, as the Minister said.

Specifically on inequality, we all agree with that, and it was good to hear the Government say that. A bit more disappointing was that I did not hear the Minister say, “I want to meet colleagues”; nor, “We hope to bring an amendment back on Report to address this”. All we got was, “We will formulate our position”.

There is agreement around the Chamber that what we need to see is an amendment that addresses all these issues. We would like a commitment to get us all together, and to hear from the Minister that she hopes there will be an amendment on Report. If we do not do that, there have been lots of warm words here but not much else has been achieved.

[Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)]

My Lords, I thought the Committee was probably fed up with me saying that I am always very happy to meet any group of noble Lords, on any subject, at any time. I apologise for not saying it in this group, and I will never ever forget to say it in any group in the future. Also, I said that we will report back to the House shortly with more details. I think the noble Lord needs to look at those words—they are quite positive.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

I am not saying they are not positive. At the end of the day, to make progress we need a government amendment, or an amendment that somebody else tables that the Government will support, at the next stage. That is progress; that is what I am trying to push. I know the Minister is very generous with her time, and wants to get this right, and wants to meet colleagues. I am just trying to get it on the record, that is all. I know the Minister has been good every time that colleagues have raised this issue in the House, and I have a Question on it again on, I think, 22 May. I thank her very much.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her response. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, for supporting these amendments and the noble Lords, Lord Truscott, Lord Kennedy and Lord Bailey, for their comments.

In relation to the Minister’s comments about the time it takes to do this, I repeat that the Conservative Party has had this in its manifesto since 2017, so there has been quite a lot of time to think this through and have a look at this. It is a bit disappointing that we are in Committee in the House of Lords with some of these key issues still unresolved.

I ask your Lordships to reflect on, first, the example I gave in the earlier debate, of the elderly couple who told me they have a dispute with their landlord and are being threatened with forfeiture. They potentially have a £15,000 bill for the costs. If they pay that charge it is taken as agreement, but failure to pay it means that the landlord can invoke forfeiture, so where do they go? That is an awful position to put people in.

My second example is a young lady who I was out with the other day doing our political work. She lives in a leasehold flat; she put a political poster up in her window and then, almost immediately, received a letter from the landlord threatening her with forfeiture because that breached the terms of her lease. That seems an onerous way of dealing with a relatively small issue.

I listened carefully to the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, and he is right that there needs to be some form of resolution to this that means it does not need to go to the High Court—but it should certainly not be forfeiture, which is totally disproportionate. There may be a need to consider remedies other than the big sledgehammer of the High Court. Threatening to repossess people’s homes is certainly not an answer to technical breaches of lease.

Regarding rent charges, they will still be in place until 2037. We have to look at this and see whether we can find some way of getting rid of them before then.

As the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, said, if we have to bring this amendment back again, we will, but I would rather the Government did so. That said, I withdraw the amendment.

Leasehold and Freehold Reform Bill

Lord Kennedy of Southwark Excerpts

Report stage & 3rd reading
Friday 24th May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I first make a number of declarations: I am a non-executive director of MHS Homes; chair of the Heart of Medway housing association; and a vice-president of the Local Government Association. In addition to that, I am a leaseholder. My noble friend Lady Taylor of Stevenage cannot be here as she is attending a friend’s funeral. That is why noble Lords have to put up with me today on the Opposition Front Bench.

I am sure that, when the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, responds to the debate, he will explain this in detail. Obviously, I have only just picked this stuff up this morning; I am sure that buried away in the government amendments are all the promises and pledges that we have had from the Government over the past six or seven years. There are things that we have heard repeatedly from the Member for Surrey Heath in the other place, which have been repeated on Sky News, the BBC, ITV and in most national newspapers. I am sure that now, finally—at the last possible chance—all those pledges are here.

I am sure that the Minister will confirm to me the promise on ground rents. We heard of course that there would be peppercorn ground rents and there was a consultation. Then we heard it leaked that they would be £250 a year with a taper. Again, I am sure the Minister can point out whether that is here. It will be very frustrating if leaseholders and campaigners have been promised action and there is nothing here.

Because of the Renters (Reform) Bill biting the dust, as it were, we have not dealt with the assured shorthold tenancy trap, which will be kept. My noble friend Lady Twycross had a PMB that addressed that very issue. She was repeatedly assured by the Government that there was no need to bring forward her PMB because they would deal with the issue in the Renters (Reform) Bill; so she quite rightly withdrew it. She accepted the assurance from the Government that it would all be sorted out in the Renters (Reform) Bill and withdrew her Bill. She was right near the top of the ballot, so she would have got it through this House and we maybe could have been arguing at the other end about getting it through during the wash-up. But she accepted, in good faith, the Government’s assurance that there was no need as it was in the Renters (Reform) Bill, and now it is lost, so the issue remains.

There is also the whole issue of the Section 24 trap: namely, that leaseholders in high-rise buildings cannot ask the First-tier Tribunal to appoint a manager under Section 24 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1987. Again, we were expecting amendments to deal with that here. Because the manager cannot be the accountable person under the Building Safety Act, there is a gap in the law which means that people are trapped. You get unscrupulous landlords who have been thrown out as managers of a building, but they can get back in again and take control of the service charge. That was going to be addressed, but it is not here—or maybe it is and I cannot spot it.

We are not going to oppose this Bill at all, and I hope it can pass today. There are some good things in it, but it is far, far short of what was promised. The Government should be quite ashamed of how they have behaved over the last few years in relation to this Bill—making promise after promise and delivering very little. That is no way to do politics. If you stand up in the House, or make a pledge in a newspaper, about the things that you are going to do, you should go and do them. Not to do them is very poor. I know that it is not the fault of the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, but I hope he can tell us where all these things have gone. Where is the progress on forfeiture? It is just not there and it is just wrong. This is not the way to operate.

The noble Lord, Lord Moylan, asked me a question. Obviously, I cannot answer that question. At the end of the day, the people will decide who the Government will be on 4 July. Whoever is in power, whether it is a Conservative or Labour Government, I hope that they will look at what happened with this Bill, look at the Law Commission recommendations that are sitting there, done and ready to be introduced, and bring them in.

What is in the King’s Speech is a matter for the Prime Minister of the day. I certainly hope that, whoever is in power, the necessary action is taken and the leaseholder problems are dealt with. They have not been dealt with by this Government—we have had year after year and promise after promise and nothing done. That is very poor. Maybe I am wrong, and the noble Lord will point out what I have missed in the points that I have made.

[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

I am grateful for all the contributions in what has been a relatively brief group. I will go through the issues that were raised chronologically.

My noble friend Lord Young raised a specific case, and I have seen the correspondence he referred to. It is the Government’s policy to allow equity release in home finance products in houses, including home purchase plans and lifetime leases. We have a power in this Bill to add, remove or amend definitions for categories of permitted leases. On the specific product, the department is considering an appropriate definition for secondary legislation, and officials have met the main provider in question. I assure my noble friend that the measures in the Bill relating to the ban on leasehold houses will not be implemented immediately, should the Bill secure Royal Assent, as there are other important regulations that need to be provided for first before the ban becomes operational.

My noble friend Lord Moylan is right to say that this will come up later, and we can have the discussion then. In brief, on the right-to-manage companies, we have laid amendments to set regulations to suspend the requirement for certain landlords to apply to the relevant court or tribunal to recover their litigation costs until an event set out in regulation occurs. An example of when it might be appropriate to suspend the application requirement is for resident-led buildings or assetless landlords. As I say, I think we will come back to it later.

[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

On the first question, it is with regret that I cannot give that date now. On his second question—whether I have confidence that we will win—that is up to the electorate, but I have every hope that we will. Obviously, I would not like to curse us in saying that—touch wood. Who knows? Let us see.

I was also asked what action could be taken to make sure that this does not fall foul of legislation. The Government will work closely with stakeholders to ensure that the application requirement is suspended only where appropriate. In addition, the power is subject to the affirmative procedure.

This is the first time I have had the honour to speak directly to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, from the Dispatch Box. I know he has raised this issue inside the Chamber and outside many times, and he is right to do so. Obviously, there have been many constraints on the legislative timetable and, as we are now in wash-up, those pressures have increased tenfold. This is a good Bill as it stands, and the Government want to see it through. The noble Lord mentioned that we are at the beginning of a general election campaign. Who knows what will come thereafter, but this Bill is very good as it stands, and I hope noble Lords will be able to support it today.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

Can the Minister confirm that there is nothing in this Bill on forfeiture or ground rents, as had been promised?

[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

There are lots of good things in the Bill as it stands that we have only just begun to talk about. I hope the noble Lord will support it. If we have the opportunity to serve again, we will continue to do what we can.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

I am not looking to oppose the Bill; I support it as it is. I am just trying to be clear on the specific question of ground rents being reduced to peppercorn rents. We have spoken about £250 a year; as far as I can see, that is not here, and neither is the issue around forfeitures. Can the Minister confirm those facts?

[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

I can confirm those two points.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bailey of Paddington (Con)]

Forfeiture is regularly used as a threatening tool so, although it does not land in court all the time so people have their property seized, it is often spoken about to pull people into line or to force people to pay bills that are, at best, iniquitous. It is used very regularly. I accept the noble Lord’s point that there needs to be another system, but forfeiture needs to go, even if that system does not exist, because its effect on leaseholders is broad, deep and very unpleasant.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, these are very welcome amendments that try to address two of the problems I referred to in my remarks on group 1. I still hope that the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne, will jump up in a moment and say that the Government accept Amendments 44 and 45—that it was an error that the Government did not put their name to them—because they are exactly the things that the Member for Surrey Heath has been promising for months. I cannot remember the number of times I have heard in TV studios and the newspapers that he wants to do both these things. Here we are now with the mechanism to do it. All the Government need to do is accept the amendments and we can move forward.

As the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, said, anyone who is owed a debt should be able to recover it, but the threat of taking all the property away is completely wrong. Even on that one, I do not understand why the Government have not come forward with an amendment on it. It is absolutely bizarre. I think nobody in this House would oppose it, and it would be accepted. We want people to be able to recover their money, but this threat is totally over the top. We all agree on that.

What is even more frustrating is that, when I leave the Chamber and walk around the building, many Members actually agree with us, and say: “You’re absolutely right, Roy. This should happen”. I have even had Members of the Government Front Bench—not in the House at the moment—say to me: “The problem is, Roy, we agree with you, but Michael just goes off and makes these claims and pledges and promises without them being signed off”. It is no way to do business. We need to get these things done properly. This needs to be done. I do not understand why it cannot be done if everyone supports it. It is beyond me, really, that we operate like this. That is the whole frustration about this Bill. Promises and pledges and articles to say that we are going to do this and we are going to do that—I am sick of hearing it. And then when they get the chance, they do absolutely nothing.

[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions in this group. I thank my noble friends Lord Young and Lord Bailey of Paddington, and the noble Lord, Lord Truscott, for their amendments regarding forfeiture and service charge enforcement.

The upkeep and safety of buildings is paramount. Landlords, be they private companies or resident management companies, need an effective mechanism to recover unpaid debts, lest their costs fall to other leaseholders or to the detriment of the building’s upkeep. It is important to consider resident management companies in particular, which often have very limited access to other funds to cover any shortfall in the service charge fund. Having a robust and efficient way to enforce unpaid charges is therefore critical to ensure the efficiency and solvency of these resident-led companies. Equally, there are other breaches—unauthorised alterations, anti-social behaviour and use of a property for immoral purposes—that can be difficult and even impossible to remediate. In such cases, forfeiture may be the only effective way of putting a stop to the breaching behaviour. While well-intended, we do not believe that the abolition of forfeiture without a suitable replacement would ultimately serve the best interests of leaseholders, and in particular resident management companies.

My noble friend asked about progress in drafting. I hope he appreciates—it is with respect that I say this—that I do not think I am able to comment on what may happen or where that is, simply because I do not know who will be lucky enough to serve in the Government and answer that question after the election.

I turn to the amendment tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Truscott. Unfortunately, we believe that this amendment does not achieve its stated aim of protecting leaseholders, crucially against forfeiture over non-payment of service charges. The Government recognise that those home owners who pay rentcharges face the threat of forfeiture. Part 7 of the Bill already removes the risk of forfeiture for unpaid arrears of income-supporting rentcharges, since the remedy is so disproportionate to the sums owed. The Bill also contains a robust package of protections for home owners who pay estate rentcharges.

I now move to the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. Noble Lords will be aware that the Government do not believe that it is appropriate that many leaseholders face unregulated ground rents for no clear service in return. The Government have already legislated to put an end to ground rents for most new residential properties in England and Wales through the Leasehold Reform (Ground Rent) Act 2022. We have also encouraged work led by the Competition and Markets Authority to investigate abuses of the system, such as the mis-sold doubling ground rent leases, securing commitments from freeholders to remove these costly terms, benefitting more than 20,000 leaseholders. Given where we are in the parliamentary timetable, I hope noble Lords will understand that we cannot accept an amendment on complex new policy at this stage.

I turn to Amendments 51 and 52 in the name of my noble friend Lord Bailey. I fully agree that it is important to have effective enforcement measures in place. Amendment 51 seeks to retain criminal sanctions for failure to provide information to leaseholders in a timely manner. The existing measures, including the statutory offence under the existing Section 25 of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985, have historically proven to be ineffective. Local housing authorities, as the enforcement body, were reluctant to bring prosecutions against landlords, and the cost and complexity of doing so were a significant barrier to leaseholders bringing a private prosecution. That is why we are replacing it with a more effective and proportionate proposal, set out in Clause 57.

Amendment 52 would require landlords to account to all leaseholders where costs were found to be unreasonable and would impose a two-month limit on repayments to leaseholders. It would introduce a power to enable the appropriate tribunal to award interest on any determination in favour of the leaseholder, where a leaseholder has made an application. While I agree that there must be a robust regime in place to challenge service charges, we do not think that this is the right approach.

Landlords may wish to compensate leaseholders by offering a credit against future service charges rather than returning money, and a leaseholder may prefer this. In addition, the Court of Appeal held in 2022 that a tribunal decision of the type to which my noble friend refers is a determination of whether the service charge is payable and not of whether it is due. Therefore, although the amendment is well-intentioned, it would not be possible to implement in the form drafted.

As I have said, I would have liked to go further, and indeed that was the intention, but we are in wash-up. With that, I hope my noble friend will withdraw his amendment.

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[Baroness Pinnock (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches totally support Amendments 62 and 63 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Best, and moved and spoken to by the noble Lord, Lord Young of Cookham. The most unfortunate part of doing this Bill in wash-up is that we have lost the opportunity to address some of the omissions in and failures of the Building Safety Act. Many leaseholders who are stuck in their properties with high and escalating insurance rates and service charges that are growing inexorably and still have a fire safety issue. These two will be issues that will I ensure are addressed by the next Government, whoever they are.

I thank those on the Front Bench for the helpful comments and the co-operation they have provided during this Bill. Most of us are of one mind: it is such a shame that this Bill is being lost without the changes that many of us would want to have put into it; but with that, I end my contribution for today.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I will, very briefly, just add our support for Amendments 62, 63 and 67. The noble Lord, Lord Bailey, presents a way forward for addressing those issues as well. I wish we could be doing them, and I think it is disappointing we are not, but I will leave it there.

[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Best, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and my noble friends Lord Bailey of Paddington and Lord Young for their amendments, and all who have spoken in the final group of this Bill.

I will start with the amendments regarding the regulation of property agents. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Best—I appreciate he is not here—for raising the issue with the Minister recently; I know that it is something which he is passionate about, and I hope that he continues to engage extensively with the noble Baroness, Lady Scott. The Government are committed to driving up professionalism and standards among property agents. Leaseholders deserve a good service for the money they pay, whether that is from from their landlord or their managing agent, where one is in place. Industry plays an important role in driving up standards, and we welcome the ongoing work it is undertaking to support this. This includes industry-backed qualifications, as well as the preparations of codes of practice. Furthermore, the measures in the Bill, alongside existing protections in place and work being undertaken by industry, seek to make managing agents more accountable to those who pay for their services. That includes making it easier for leaseholders to take on management of their buildings themselves, where they can directly appoint or replace agents. The measures above will, I believe, contribute substantially to that objective.

In addition, we need to consider the question of standards for all property agents in the round rather than in a piecemeal fashion. That was the original purpose behind the idea of a regulator for property agents. While I recognise the intentions and desired outcomes of these amendments, I do not consider that now is the right time to introduce them.

I turn to Amendment 87. I trust that your Lordships will understand that the Government cannot accept these proposed amendments. Defining a Section 24 manager as “an accountable person” would move financial and criminal liabilities away from the existing accountable person to the Section 24 manager. It was the intent of the Building Safety Act that financial and criminal responsibility for certain aspects of maintaining the building should always remain with the accountable person and accountable persons cannot delegate this responsibility to a third party. Given these assurances, I hope that the noble Lord will withdraw his amendment and that other noble Lords will not press their amendments.

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[Lord Gascoigne (Con)]

My Lords, in moving that the Bill do now pass, I recognise that we are now, finally, reaching the juddering climax of this Bill and this Parliament. As is only right and proper, there have been at times strongly held views about measures in the Bill. I am acutely aware that not everyone will be entirely satisfied with everything, but I remain encouraged and inspired by the passion that is felt across the House and by what has been evident yet again: the breadth, knowledge and experience of this House.

I am particularly grateful to all noble Lords across the House who have taken the time to engage directly with me and my noble friend Lady Scott of Bybrook. I thank both Opposition Benches for their sustained interest and engagement. In particular, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Truscott and Lord Best, the noble Baronesses, Lady Andrews, Lady Thornhill and Lady Fox of Buckley, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Manchester and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton. On our Benches, I thank my noble friends Lord Moylan, Lord Young of Cookham, Lord Bailey of Paddington and Lord Howard of Rising for their sustained engagement and helpful contributions during the debate. While we may not have been able to reach total agreement, I appreciate the concerns they are representing. Their careful examination of these measures has enabled the Government further to consider our policy and reinforce that our approach is correct. I am for ever grateful for their constructive scrutiny.

Speaking of my own Bench, I am sure it will not come as a surprise that today I feel a bit like Debbie McGee as there is one notable absence. I pay particular tribute to my noble friend Lady Scott. It has been a privilege to watch her work throughout the passage of the Bill and to work closely alongside her on much else. I am inspired by her impressive capacity to pick up technical issues and to work at pace and for her dedication to public service. My noble friend has done all of this and tolerated me with good humour.

I thank His Majesty’s loyal Opposition and the Front Benches opposite. I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Taylor of Stevenage and Lady Pinnock, and the noble Lords, Lord Khan of Burnley and Lord Kennedy of Southwark, for their constructive interest in and engagement with these measures. I have been grateful for their willingness to work with this side on any matters of disagreement. It is both the first time and the last time in this Parliament when I am speaking to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, across this Dispatch Box. I would like to say something specific about him, if I may. While this may not necessarily be career-enhancing for both of us, in all the exchanges outside this Chamber, both formal and otherwise, he has been characteristically robust while courteous, approachable and friendly. As the new kid on the block, it has been appreciated.

I conclude by mentioning all the expert and extraordinarily comprehensive work that has gone into this legislation by the Law Commission, the Bill team and the officials behind the Bill, many of whom have been working on this legislation for many years, not to mention the extraordinary amount of work I imagine they have done over the past 24 hours due to wash-up. I spoke to the Minister first thing this morning, and on behalf of the Minister and myself, I thank them for their tireless support and professionalism.

Finally, as this is my last time in this Parliament to speak at the Dispatch Box, I say that my family were not political at all, so being a Member of your Lordships’ House alone is the honour of a lifetime, yet to be in His Majesty’s Government and to have played a small part in this Parliament has been beyond a privilege. I am grateful to everyone who has helped and supported me over the recent months in this Chamber, across the House and beyond. With that, I beg to move.

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I thank the government team that worked on this Bill, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Bybrook, and the noble Lord, Lord Gascoigne. I appreciate their generous remarks very much. I thank all the government officials for their work on the Bill, and noble Lords across the House who worked on it at every point. I thank the staff of the Opposition Whips’ Office. I pay particular tribute to my noble friends Lord Khan of Burnley and Lady Taylor of Stevenage. They took over doing the local government brief when I became the Opposition Chief Whip and did a far better job than I did. Sometimes I sit in my office in awe at how excellent they are—and how much better than I was.

I pay tribute to Lord Rosser and Lord McAvoy, who are missed by the whole House. They were always very kind to me when I arrived here. Lord McAvoy knew me for many years beforehand, and knew my mum very well as well; he always spoke very fondly of the time she was in the Members’ Tea Room in the House of Commons.

I thank the Labour Front Bench and the Labour Whips. They have done a fantastic job, and it has been an absolute privilege to serve as part of the Labour Front Bench over the last 14 years, and as one of the Labour Whips. I was privileged to arrive in the House 14 years ago. I am a kid from a council estate in Elephant and Castle, and I never thought I would end up here. To get here was a great thing, but to be the Opposition Chief Whip is something I have been immensely proud of, and I have tried to do my best in the last three years.

I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford. We have followed each other around the House—when she was the Local Government Minister, I was the same over here, and then I went to the Home Office, and now we are against each other—or working with each other—in the usual channels. It is an absolute pleasure working with her in the usual channels: sometimes we agree and sometimes we do not agree, but it is all done in good humour, and usually over some chocolate in the noble Baroness’s office.

[A noble Lord]

Bribery!

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

Absolutely. We get on really well together, and I have always appreciated the way she deals with things. That is the best way for the House to work. At the end of the day, this House works by relying on the conventions, doing things properly and agreeing things properly.

Whoever forms the next Government—that will be decided by the people on 4 July—will have to deal with these big issues around leasehold. Whatever side of the House I am sitting on, whether on the Front Bench or the Back Bench, I will do my best to make sure that whatever the Government do, they deal with these issues properly.

It has been an absolute privilege to be here and to do the job of Opposition Chief Whip, and to come back today and do it for the last time. With that, I wish everyone a happy election—let us hope the best party wins.

Bill passed and returned to the Commons with amendments.