Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
Main Page: Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Labour - Life peer)Domestic Abuse Bill
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Baronesses, Lady Meacher and Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for their support of this amendment. Time is getting on and we have a lot to go through tonight, so I promise I will not detain the House by repeating the arguments I used in Committee.
I am very encouraged by the letter I received from Minister Scully outlining all the steps that the Government have taken and are taking to make employers aware of what they can do to support victims and signpost them towards help. I also commend the Government on their recent review, Workplace Support for Victims of Domestic Abuse. As we know, the workplace is one of the few places where the victim is usually separate from the abuser. If the workplace culture is positive and the employer knows how to help by signposting the victim, this can make all the difference. Sadly, the review outlined a mostly different picture: a lack of awareness of the warning signs of abuse; stigma around talking about it; and a lack of knowledge of what to do to help.
In his letter to me, Minister Scully said:
“We will now work together with employers, representatives of victims and trade unions to continue to build awareness and understanding of domestic abuse and drive good practice across the board.”
The Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development and the Equalities and Human Rights Commission have produced an oven-ready code of practice. It is only one small step to put implementation into government guidelines on duty of care. What will these guidelines consist of? Will they be incorporated into the other duties of care required of employers? If not, what will it look like?
Regrettably, this knowledge will not filter down to employers by osmosis. We need one small step, such as a government extension of the duty of care to extend to larger organisations incorporating a policy on employee domestic abuse victims into their existing employee policies. That in itself would send a powerful signal not just to victims but to abusers that this behaviour is not okay and that help is at hand. Now, when employees are coming back to work, is an ideal time to welcome them with a policy that confirms their self-worth and the fact that they are regarded and cared for.
The Government have made great strides already. The establishment of a code or duty is just half a step more. The result is a big benefit for all concerned: employees who feel able to bring their whole selves to work; other employees who also feel valued and supported; and, not least, employers, who reap the rewards in terms of enhanced loyalty and productivity. It is a win-win, and the only cost to the employer is a little thought. I beg to move.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) [V]
My Lords, I am very glad to speak in this debate. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, for moving the amendment. I was very pleased that the Government confirmed in Committee that domestic abuse protection orders would cover the workplace as well as the home. This is a very important step in ensuring that victims remain protected at work, and it is a first step to ensuring that domestic abuse is seen as a workplace and trade union issue. Home and work cannot be neatly separated, and this has never been truer than during the Covid pandemic.
I declare my interest as a member of UNISON, and I was particularly pleased that its campaign was so successful. I warmly congratulate its new general secretary, Christina McAnea.
There is no room for complacency, as the noble Baroness said. I am certainly convinced of the need to ensure that victims of domestic abuse are protected at work and that their employers do everything they can to support them. I have already said that home and work issues cannot always be neatly separated. Abusive and violent behaviour does not always take place in the home; it can frequently cross into the workplace, where victims experience stalking, threats, harassment and even worse. Equally, work can be a lifeline to independence and survival for victims of domestic abuse, as they are ordinarily able to leave their homes to go elsewhere and can maintain a level of income independent from the perpetrator.
All victims should feel safe in the knowledge that they can take action to put their lives back on track with their employment secure, and that they will be protected while they are at work. The Government have a responsibility to ensure that victims of domestic abuse are protected at work and that their employers do everything they can to support them.
We know from a TUC survey from 2015 that one in 10 of those who experienced domestic violence reported that the violence continued in the workplace. Over 90% of respondents to the survey who had experienced domestic violence reported that it had caused conflict and tension with co-workers, and a quarter of respondents reported that their co-workers were harmed or threatened.
This is where discussion about the code of practice comes in. The requirement that the code should be
“designed to ensure that persons affected by domestic abuse who are workers receive appropriate care and support”
is certainly an interesting suggestion. From listening to the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, I can certainly see the attractions of a code of practice. As she said, she has had discussions with relevant organisations on it.
However, I put to the noble Baroness the risk that, in any criminal or civil proceedings, compliance with the code by an employer may become the issue, rather than the domestic abuse carried out by a perpetrator. In the experience of UNISON, with which I have discussed the amendment, the introduction of a policy would seem to be much more effective in encouraging victims to volunteer that they are affected by domestic abuse, enabling referral to appropriate support agencies. In other words, while employers must ensure that they are meeting their duty of care, this might be seen as a blunt instrument. But I recognise that it is being moved with the best of intents and, in the work that goes forward, I am sure that it will be important to consider a code alongside the other measures that are clearly important to take.
The Earl of Lytton (CB) [V]
My Lords, as someone involved in a small business as an employee, and having run a number of small businesses over many years, I can certainly applaud the general sentiment behind this amendment. However, its scope would potentially enmesh a category of small business that could be regarded as disproportionately wide. We should bear in mind that many are microbusinesses: they do not have HR departments and may well operate, as my employer does, in a very dispersed and diffuse mechanism. Setting in place a code and signposting this issue is, however, certainly desirable.
Work environments are not always on fixed premises—they may be in all sorts of places. In construction, certainly, they can be literally anywhere and in all sorts of circumstances. All sorts of people may be involved in those setups as an employer or employee, within the definition proposed here.
I want to refer to the other examples that we have for ensuring better workplace consciousness. We had this on health and safety: ultimately, that was backed by statutory provisions but it had a massive effect on the culture of safe working in construction, in particular—possibly not so much on farming, where children were particularly at risk. More recently, we have had what might be described as a much more voluntary process on mental health. Much has been said about this over the last two or three years to do with employees looking out for what might be troubling their colleagues and just asking them: “Are you all right?” So often it is that which is brought to the attention of somebody who matters and can achieve an effect, rather than necessarily the employer, who may be somewhere else and not in direct contact.
This is a matter of best practice. It goes along with general health and bereavement, and that sort of thing. I am less sure that making it prescriptive is the right way forward. As I said, I applaud the principle and general sentiment behind the amendment. If the Minister felt that she could concede to the point of at least producing some detailed statutory or other guidance that could be followed, it would be a material step forward.
Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) [V]
My Lords, I am also very glad to support the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, in her Amendments 83 and 84. She has been such an extraordinary campaigner for older people and, years ago, she brought the abuse suffered by them to national and international attention.
We have made considerable progress. The acceptance of the amendment of my noble friend Lady Lister means that the offence of “controlling or coercive behaviour” under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015, which originally covered only behaviour by a family member when they are living with their victim, will be amended so that it applies to “controlling or coercive behaviour” by a former intimate partner that takes place post separation, or by a family member who does not reside with the victim. This is real progress for old people suffering from abuse.
However, there is an argument for going further. I will reflect back on the words of wisdom of Gary FitzGerald, formerly CEO of Action on Elder Abuse, who stated that:
“Older women can have a higher level of physical, emotional and particularly financial dependence on perpetrators, and will often have experienced the abuse for a much greater period of time. It is those psychological and emotional relationships that are crucial in considering coercive control ... The people who primarily abuse older people are their own families—sons and daughters, nieces and nephews, and grandchildren. They exploit family relationships, and this can often continue after the intervention of statutory services.”
The argument put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, is that you need her amendment to deal with these types of situations.
In Committee, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, said:
“Local authorities are well equipped to identify, investigate and address suspicions or cases of domestic abuse where the individual has existing care and support needs or is known through other means. There are mechanisms and clear professional responsibilities in place to ensure the safety of suspected or known victims.”—[Official Report, 10/2/21; col. 404.]
She was not convinced that the amendments of the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, would add value to “existing rules and processes”. In a sense, this repeats an argument that the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, has used throughout the Bill: that practice is at fault, not the legislative structures. The problem is that, in relation to the issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, it is far too patchy, which is why we are using the Bill to raise issues and seek to get some statutory provision. I know that she hopes for a positive response from Ministers, which is to be welcomed. However, it would be great to be able to finish the job, in a sense, and do everything we can to protect older people from the abuse that I am afraid they suffer all too often.
Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con) [V]
My Lords, I am pleased to speak to these amendments, so ably introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross. The hour is late, and I do not wish to add much to what has already been said. In Committee, I highlighted that:
“How we treat our vulnerable is a reflection of our society … We need a zero-tolerance attitude to abuse, whatever the age of those involved.”—[Official Report, 10/2/21; col. 400.]
When we last debated this issue, the Minister said that local authorities are already equipped with the powers in Amendment 83 and that “the police and others” already have the right of entry in Amendment 84.
I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, that, in spite of this, there are still problems. The elderly are among the most vulnerable in our society, and it is important that they are adequately protected. As such, I hope the Minister will be able to highlight today how protection for the elderly will be strengthened.