Domestic Abuse Bill

Baroness Hodgson of Abinger Excerpts

Monday 15th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am also very glad to support the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, in her Amendments 83 and 84. She has been such an extraordinary campaigner for older people and, years ago, she brought the abuse suffered by them to national and international attention.

We have made considerable progress. The acceptance of the amendment of my noble friend Lady Lister means that the offence of “controlling or coercive behaviour” under Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act 2015, which originally covered only behaviour by a family member when they are living with their victim, will be amended so that it applies to “controlling or coercive behaviour” by a former intimate partner that takes place post separation, or by a family member who does not reside with the victim. This is real progress for old people suffering from abuse.

However, there is an argument for going further. I will reflect back on the words of wisdom of Gary FitzGerald, formerly CEO of Action on Elder Abuse, who stated that:

“Older women can have a higher level of physical, emotional and particularly financial dependence on perpetrators, and will often have experienced the abuse for a much greater period of time. It is those psychological and emotional relationships that are crucial in considering coercive control ... The people who primarily abuse older people are their own families—sons and daughters, nieces and nephews, and grandchildren. They exploit family relationships, and this can often continue after the intervention of statutory services.”


The argument put forward by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, is that you need her amendment to deal with these types of situations.

In Committee, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, said:

“Local authorities are well equipped to identify, investigate and address suspicions or cases of domestic abuse where the individual has existing care and support needs or is known through other means. There are mechanisms and clear professional responsibilities in place to ensure the safety of suspected or known victims.”—[Official Report, 10/2/21; col. 404.]


She was not convinced that the amendments of the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, would add value to “existing rules and processes”. In a sense, this repeats an argument that the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, has used throughout the Bill: that practice is at fault, not the legislative structures. The problem is that, in relation to the issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, it is far too patchy, which is why we are using the Bill to raise issues and seek to get some statutory provision. I know that she hopes for a positive response from Ministers, which is to be welcomed. However, it would be great to be able to finish the job, in a sense, and do everything we can to protect older people from the abuse that I am afraid they suffer all too often.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am pleased to speak to these amendments, so ably introduced by the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross. The hour is late, and I do not wish to add much to what has already been said. In Committee, I highlighted that:

“How we treat our vulnerable is a reflection of our society … We need a zero-tolerance attitude to abuse, whatever the age of those involved.”—[Official Report, 10/2/21; col. 400.]


When we last debated this issue, the Minister said that local authorities are already equipped with the powers in Amendment 83 and that “the police and others” already have the right of entry in Amendment 84.

I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, that, in spite of this, there are still problems. The elderly are among the most vulnerable in our society, and it is important that they are adequately protected. As such, I hope the Minister will be able to highlight today how protection for the elderly will be strengthened.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, this is one of the few amendments to the Bill that are intended to address elder abuse, and I commend the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, for her years of campaigning for older people. Clearly, it is a big problem, with stark findings from the charity Hourglass that one in six adults over 65 has suffered some form of abuse, and 40% of this is financial abuse.

At previous stages the noble Baroness the Minister did not seem particularly sympathetic to these amendments, citing systems and procedures already in place for spotting and reporting signs of financial abuse in local authorities. But in her subsequent letter to the Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, counterchallenges that duties under the Care Act 2014 are not implemented consistently by local authorities. I wonder if the noble Lord the Minister recognises this picture. Would he be willing to commission some investigation to check this out? I was mollified by the words of the noble Baroness the Minister in Committee, but now I wonder.

Regarding powers of entry, the Minister expressed concern in Committee that social workers are not trained for effecting entry and may be putting themselves in harm’s way. In her follow-up letter, the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, counters that it is naive to imagine that social workers are never in harm’s way and are unused to facing confrontational situations in the course of their job anyway. In the letter, she says that

“powers of entry are only given to the police in cases where ‘life and limb’ are at stake.”

So there appears to be a gap between police powers to act and refusal to allow entry to the social worker by a suspected controlling abuser.

The noble Baroness compares safeguarding powers in Scotland and Wales to those in England and finds them wanting. Would it not be possible to look at this again? I would be very interested to know how often powers to enter are needed and sought. I hope the Minister can enlighten the House so that we might understand the scale of the problem. On the one hand, we have the evidence of Scotland, where the knowledge that the social worker has the power to enter creates an expectation that they may enter, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Rooker; but on the other, there is the risk to the social worker to consider, as outlined by the noble Baroness the Minister. I am a bit more ambivalent this time around, and I look forward to hearing what the noble Lord the Minister has to say.