Lord Foster of Bath
Main Page: Lord Foster of Bath (Liberal Democrat - Life peer)London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games (Amendment) Bill
Lord Foster of Bath Excerpts(13 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text
Hugh Robertson
Two things come to mind. During my time as a Minister, I have become aware that some of these sites encourage people to subscribe even though they do not have any tickets at all and the whole thing is a blatant con trick. I recall the tragic case of some New Zealanders who came over for a rugby match at Cardiff Arms park on the basis of a set of tickets from one such website. It was a complete sham, but they had travelled all the way over here and gone to pick up their tickets, only to find there was nothing there. The point about the Bill is that it will enable us to take more effective action. A disincentive of £20,000 to someone perpetrating large-scale commercial ticketing fraud is likely to be much more effective than a disincentive of £5,000.
Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD)
Will the Minister join me in praising those in the police who are involved in Operation Podium and who managed to close down more than 100 websites even before the start of this year?
Hugh Robertson
I absolutely agree, and I thank my right hon. Friend for making that point. As he says, Operation Podium has already started and it will continue as we get closer to the games.
Mr Don Foster (Bath) (LD)
I am not only particularly grateful to you for calling me, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I am particularly pleased to follow the hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown), who represents one of the Olympic boroughs and, as such, has rightly adopted a critical friend approach. What she could not disguise was her enthusiasm for and excitement about the 2012 Olympics and Paralympics, which my party shares. Liberal Democrat Members were delighted to be supporters of London’s bid and we were highly pleased with its success. We continue to be full supporters of the work that is going on and we are absolutely confident that not only are we going to have a brilliant sporting and cultural extravaganza in London and elsewhere in 2012, but that it will bring a lasting legacy to all parts of the United Kingdom.
I am also pleased to follow the right hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Tessa Jowell), who was right to say that we owe a debt of gratitude to all the staff who have worked in the Olympic Delivery Authority and the London Organising Committee of the Olympic Games and Paralympic Games. They have done fantastically well to ensure not only that the games look almost certain to be on budget and on time, but that they deliver the sporting and cultural extravaganza that we are looking forward to seeing. It would be remiss of this House if it did not also thank her for the work that she has done during the major part of the period leading up to the bid and since. Although she was successful in achieving many things, two stand out in my mind: the setting up of an organisation that is delivering so well and, in particular, the work she was able to initiate to ensure that we are using these Olympics to inspire young people, not only in this country but all over the world, about sport; and the remarkable but undersung achievement of obtaining, for the first time ever, permission from the IOC for another type of branding—the Inspire mark. It has inspired many people to undertake activities linked to the 2012 games that might otherwise not have happened, and she deserves full praise for that.
The right hon. Lady was right to say that there is cross-party support for the games and it would be wrong of me not to illustrate that by saying how delighted I am that this Minister has responsibility for the 2012 games. He not only provides a very safe pair of hands and is extremely knowledgeable but, as he rightly says, he has been round the block on this issue for as long as many of us have. This excitement is not confined to us in this Chamber, but it is shared all the way around the United Kingdom. That is demonstrated by not only the fantastic success of the ticket sales, which I shall discuss further in a moment, but the very large number of people, which is far in excess of the number we need, who have applied to be volunteers—games makers—for the Olympics and Paralympics. That illustrates people’s real enthusiasm. In retrospect, we got one thing wrong: I am referring to the fact that at the moment many people do not know whether or not they have been chosen to be games makers and, thus, whether or not they should have applied for tickets. I know that a number of these people would have preferred the games makers to be appointed ahead of the ticket application process, but I say that with the benefit of hindsight.
We are proud supporters of the Olympics and the Paralympics and we support the measures in the Bill. We are all huge fans of the wonderful and brilliant briefings that we get from the House of Commons Library. The one on this Bill is no exception. In its opening sentence, it makes it very clear that this is not a major Bill but merely one that
“makes a small number of technical amendments to the advertising and trading, ticket touting, and traffic management provisions of the London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games Act 2006.”
You have been very generous, Mr Deputy Speaker, in allowing people to range on much broader subjects than this not very major Bill, which deals with a few technical amendments.
Those amendments are important, none the less, but before I deal with them, let me say that I am particularly delighted that the Bill’s title includes the word “Paralympics”. As the former Secretary of State and Minister with responsibility for these matters, the right hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood will know, during the passage of the 2006 Act, on which many of us spent many happy hours, it was necessary for me to table an amendment to ensure that the word “Paralympics” was included in the title and got the same prominence as the Olympics. My zeal for the Paralympics at that time has paid off more recently because the British Paralympic Association has agreed that it will base its pre-games training camp in the wonderful city of Bath and the fantastic facilities of Bath university’s sports training village. To follow the tradition established by the hon. Member for West Ham, I can reveal that that news was announced in my wonderful local newspaper, The Bath Chronicle.
The measures in the Bill—to stick to your ruling, Mr Deputy Speaker—deal with advertising and trading provisions, as the Minister has rightly said. The 2006 Act sought to ensure that we have measures in place that meet the IOC requirements and that, crucially, protect the important sponsors for the games from things such as ambush marketing. Any Member who has seen the draft version of the relevant regulations, which, as we have heard, are out for consultation, will be pleased, I am sure, that the proposals offers a light-touch approach while meeting our obligations. It is sufficient to deter illegal activity while avoiding the heavy-handed approach that has marred some previous games. I was delighted to hear the Secretary of State confirm in answer to a question earlier today that the measures will be used “sensitively” whereas the Minister, using a different phrase, has said in this debate that they will be used “proportionately”. I think we would all agree that whether the approach is light touch, sensitive or proportionate, that is what we want it to be—we want all three.
It was probably not sensible for the 2006 Act to suggest that the police, with their myriad other concerns, should be responsible for dealing with goods confiscated from illegal street trading, so it makes sense for that responsibility to be transferred to the ODA. Notwithstanding the large number of interventions that the Minister had to deal with about who the ODA officials would be—I suspect that largely they will be trading standards officers from local councils—the Bill deals only with who will look after the confiscated goods and the rules for handing them back.
Another reason it makes more sense to move that responsibility to the ODA is that the rules used by the police for handing back such goods are incredibly bizarre and come from a Victorian era. The rules that these measures are based on—the ones used by trading standards officers—are much clearer and much simpler and will therefore be easier to follow. It is right that we should have clear rules about when goods—even vehicles—must be handed back and the Bill provides them for us.
It also makes sense to have measures in place to ensure that we can deal with changes made at short notice to games venues or the timing of events so that we can continue to meet our obligations to the IOC and our sponsors. Given that Parliament has already agreed to such procedures for the Commonwealth games in Glasgow, I see no reason why we should not be doing exactly the same for London 2012.
The need for contingencies for last-minute changes to venues or event timing applies equally to transport and the Olympic route network. That is what these small technical measures deal with. It makes sense to address traffic regulation orders, traffic regulation notices and special events notices to ensure that everything that can be done is done to keep London moving during the Olympic and Paralympic games. As other Members have said, particularly the hon. Member for West Ham, we must be ever vigilant to ensure that everybody in London is aware of the implications of the imposition of the Olympic route network. The last thing we want is a lot of bad publicity from people claiming that they were not given notice that their regular car parking space would disappear for a few weeks during the Olympics and Paralympics, or from a corner shop that finds that trade drops remarkably because people cannot stop outside it. The right hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood said that Londoners are well aware of the need for such measures, and although that may be true, every single person needs to be given plenty of notice not only of why these changes are important but of what the impact on them will be.
Incidentally, I also welcome the huge amount of work that the ODA is doing on traffic demand management, which is rarely talked about in these debates. It is all very well to put in place all the measures to find routes, but we have to remember that businesses in London must continue to operate. It is crucial that we work with those businesses and try, for instance, to persuade them to move the operation of their business to different times so that they are not moving around at a time when we need the route network and other roads in the vicinity to get people to and from the games.
As we have heard, the final measure in the Bill concerns ticket touting. The games provide a wonderful opportunity for many people to see a wide range of both Olympic and Paralympic sports performed by the best athletes in the world. For many games goers, this will be a real opportunity to engage with sports that they might not necessarily know much about. Having seen a demonstration of one Paralympic sport from the British Paralympic team, training in Bath, I am convinced that it will be the new hit sport in the United Kingdom. If any right hon. or hon. Member has not yet come across goalball, I strongly recommend that they go and find out about it. It is an amazing event with three people in a team who simply have to get a ball into the net of the opposing side. The only twist is that all the participants are totally blind and judge how to play entirely by hearing the sound of a bell inside the ball. It is fast, furious and exciting, and given that Channel 4 has the rights to film the Paralympics, I hope it will focus on that sport and that it will become a national winner.
As so many people are going to be excited by the games and are going to want to apply for tickets, not just in the recent round but in subsequent rounds—1.8 million people have applied, the statistics show that many of the sports are sold out, 20 million applications have been made for just 6.6 million tickets and more than 50% of the 650 sessions have been oversubscribed—pickings will be ripe for ticket touts unless we take appropriate action. Given the experience of previous games, for example the allegations in Beijing in 2008 that meant that not only outsiders but Olympic officials and the families of competitors were caught up in ticketing scams, it is absolutely right that we should do everything we can in that regard.
I referred in an intervention to the excellent work of Operation Podium, which has already closed down a large number of illegal sites and will no doubt continue to do so. It was interesting that people working on that project said categorically that the £5,000 fine was insufficient to deter the ticket touts. More recently, the Minister has said that we need to do more about this issue, as has the Home Secretary. I think it is absolutely right that we are increasing the fine from £5,000 to £20,000. I am told that in a top-flight football match it is possible for ticket touts to get away with about £100,000, so a £5,000 fine will be seen merely as a business expense whereas a £20,000 fine will make it much more likely that touts will stop and think.
I think that what is proposed in the Bill is absolutely right and that the level is right, but I say gently to the Minister that if we are doing this for the Olympics, why are we not beginning to do something about all the other sporting events? The Lawn Tennis Association is already asking us why, if we can do this for the Olympics, we are not applying it to Wimbledon. I know that there are complications because we desperately want to get the legitimate, secondary ticket exchange market operating more effectively. I know it is not easy, but the House has to spend a bit more time discussing what we are going to do about ticket touting.
It is absolutely critical that for the Olympic and Paralympic games we have a robust, efficient, speedy and effective ticket exchange scheme. Many people who bid for tickets in what was meant to be a marathon not a sprint, but which ended up being a marathon with a sprint ending, have overbid because they did not think they would get the full amount. A lot of people are going to be worried about having a lot of tickets on their hands and will not want to use ticket touts but to do things legally, and we have to assure them that a system is in place. It is regrettable that details of the official ticket exchange scheme have not yet been made fully public and it is important that that is done at the earliest opportunity.
Hugh Robertson
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. I can see the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson) twitching in her seat, given her private Member’s Bill, so I thought it might be helpful if I cleared up this point. We have brought the regulations forward in response to a specific threat that has been identified by the Metropolitan police as part of Operation Podium. We also asked the police about ticket touting more generally and they have not identified a more generalised threat. As the right hon. Gentleman is aware, this issue was considered by the previous Government and the Select Committee on Culture, Media and Sport in the previous Parliament and they both said that there was insufficient evidence of the need to go for a more general ban on ticket touting.
Mr Foster
I am grateful to the Minister for that response. I apologise to the hon. Member for Washington and Sunderland West (Mrs Hodgson)—I hope that she is going to say a little more about this issue and I think she was absolutely right to bring forward her private Member’s Bill. On its Second Reading she referred to this very specific point and no doubt she will expand on that in a few minutes.
As I have said, the Bill contains a relatively small number of technical adjustments to the largely excellent 2006 Act and it has my full support. The right hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood said that we had 554 days, I think it is, before the Olympics begin, but I will be getting excited sooner because the torch parade will begin 70 days before that. That is when the real excitement will begin for what is going to be a wonderful sporting and cultural extravaganza in this country, bringing real and lasting benefit to businesses, sport, culture, tourism and many other aspects of our life. I am confident that it is going to be a great spectacle that will have a lasting benefit and I think that these small additional measures will ensure that it will be even better than it might otherwise have been.
Mr Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)
I wish to address my relatively brief remarks to clause 4, which deals with traffic and is entitled “Orders and notices relating to temporary prohibitions etc. on roads”. Under paragraph 15 of the schedule to the Olympic Route Network Designation Order 2009, the A31 from its junction with the A35, going east to junction 1 of the M27 is part of that network. It includes junctions, slip roads and roundabouts. Under section 11 of the London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games Act 2006, the Secretary of State is allowed to designate roads
“for the purpose of facilitating travel… to and from London Olympic events”
and for “other purposes connected” thereto.
I have a number of questions to put to the Minister, particularly about the interaction of this order and proposed works to the Canford Bottom roundabout, which is a notorious junction in the vicinity of Wimborne. It is encountered by people travelling west on the A31 after a period of travel on a single carriageway and it then continues with a single carriageway on the other side. Four other roads join it, so there is an intersection of six roads around one roundabout. I can confidently predict that at this time, on the eve of a bank holiday, it will already be clogged with traffic, particularly in a westerly direction. That is the situation during the holiday season, and of course the Olympic games will take place at the height of the holiday season next year.
Although we in Dorset are delighted that the Olympic sailing venue will be in Weymouth, for my constituents in the east of Dorset, Weymouth is at least an hour’s drive away in normal conditions. We are not talking about a local venue, but about a venue some distance away.
The Minister and the Government have said all along that the intention is that the activities of local people and businesses should not be disrupted by the establishment of the Olympic route network. What concerns me is the interaction between these proposals and the Government’s proposals to change the layout at the Canford Bottom roundabout. There has been a long-standing campaign for a flyover at Canford Bottom, but it would cost well over £10 million and is apparently unaffordable in the present circumstances. The Government have therefore produced an alternative proposal to replace the roundabout with what is described as a hamburger junction. There was a consultation meeting in my constituency on the subject at the end of last month. A hamburger junction is something of a rarity in my part of the world, and when I asked where one could be found, I was told that the closest was in Cardiff. Replacing a roundabout with a hamburger junction is certainly a novel approach.
Mr Chope
I wish that I could. When asked to describe it at the meeting, the officials said that they preferred to refer to a “plan”. However, I understand that it is a junction that looks like a hamburger. The main A31 carriageway—the meat in the hamburger, as it were—would go through the middle, and there would be light-controlled crossings for the four side roads. That is what is described by the Highways Agency as a hamburger junction. I hope that in due course the right hon. Gentleman will be able to have one in Bath, but perhaps before he commits himself he should have a look at the one in Cardiff to see whether it works.
Members’ interest in this subject is becoming apparent, but, as will be appreciated, the people who live close to the proposed junction are even more interested in knowing whether it will achieve the objective that the Highways Agency says that it will achieve, which is to improve the operation of the junction on the A31. What worries local residents is the possibility that their ability to cross from one part of the constituency to the other—into Wimborne—will be impeded by the junction, because extra priority will be given to through traffic at the expense of local traffic.
In order to tease out such issues, there would normally be a fairly long period of consultation on a major highway proposal such as this. The project will cost £5.7 million. However, the Highways Agency tells me that there will be only a three-week window of opportunity for written representations, starting immediately after the local elections. The explanation seems to be that this junction needs to be changed as part of the ODA’s remit to ensure that the Olympic route network delivers people from London to Weymouth within a specified time frame.
I am enthusiastic about clause 4 as it will enable the ODA to ensure that emergency action can be taken to deal with congestion around the Canford Bottom roundabout or anywhere else on the network without the need for major roadworks to be rushed through between now and the time of the Olympic games. In responding to the debate, I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will be able to assure me that the construction of this hamburger junction is not a crucial part of the Olympic route network, and that the network will be able to deliver its objectives even if this hamburger junction is not constructed. My constituents are sceptical about this solution; they think it may be the wrong one. They are concerned that it might be a cheapskate solution to a very serious problem, and that it would put back for many years, if not decades, the prospect of having a proper flyover at that junction. I hope we will get some clarity on this, and that I will be able to go back and say to my constituents with the authority of the Minister, “It doesn’t matter whether or not we have a bit of delay in the consultation process. It doesn’t matter if the construction of this hamburger junction as a replacement for the roundabout starts after the Olympics. It does not have to be completed before the Olympics.” That would remove one of the major causes of suspicion among my constituents, which is that this solution is a means of trying to ensure that a few Olympic officials can travel through Dorset more quickly than they might otherwise, at the expense of the long-term inconvenience of local people.
When my hon. Friend ably opened this debate, I noted that he kept emphasising that these traffic management measures are designed to facilitate competitors and officials getting to the venues. As he will know, Weymouth is a long way from Canford Bottom—more than an hour’s journey away—and I think a wise competitor or official will base their residence much closer to Weymouth. I therefore wonder what timetable might be put in place for the operation of this Olympic route network on the A31 during the games. Is it going to operate for 24 hours a day, or is it going to operate only when it is actually needed and competitors or officials are travelling to a venue? I ask that because at present it seems as though it is designed to enable all the Olympic organisation hangers-on to be able to travel at speed in their limos from London to Weymouth, when everybody else is being told that they will have to travel by public transport. I hope my hon. Friend will be able to give us some assurances on that.
This point is also of relevance in respect of the proposal to close off the junction at the Merley roundabout, which leads towards Poole. My hon. Friend will understand that if one closes a junction on a busy highway and prevents people from turning towards a major destination such as Poole, it will lead to considerable inconvenience for local people. It would be helpful to have an assurance that that inconvenience will be limited to times when it is absolutely essential to facilitate the transport of officials and competitors to the sailing events in Weymouth.
Paragraph 84 of the explanatory notes to the Bill states that one of the Government’s objectives is
“to ensure the safe and reliable movement of athletes, officials and other members of the Games Family”—
capital “G”, capital “F”.
What causes me a bit of concern is what we mean by the “Games Family”. Does it mean Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all, with the exception of local residents and potential spectators? Who does it mean? Paragraph (b) states that the objective of the Government is
“to deter workers and spectators from driving to the venues”.
One way of deterring those people from driving to Weymouth is to ensure that the existing congested roads are kept around the Canford Bottom roundabout and that they are improved only after the 2012 Olympics.
The Government also clearly say that they want
“to minimise the impact of the 2012 Games on local businesses and residents going about their everyday business.”
That is why I have sought the opportunity of this debate to seek these assurances. There is an argument for saying that clause 4 should be amended in Committee to make it clear that these traffic regulation orders are to enable the objective of moving athletes and officials around on the road network to be met more easily and that the wider “Games Family” should not be used as an excuse for inconveniencing people with the orders under this clause.
When some of my colleagues saw the reference in the Bill to pedlars they thought that I might wish to direct some remarks in that direction and to ticket touting. I could easily do so, but I wish the focus to be on the constituency issue to which I have drawn the Minister’s attention. I would not want to detract from that particular matter, but I am sure that people will be able to look more closely in Committee at whether there is proportionality on the touting offences. I would like the Bill to contain something that makes it clear that people who sell their tickets, particularly any from LOCOG, will be penalised and will not be able to claim privilege when confronted by the forces of the law. I suspect that, as has happened during previous Olympic games, quite a lot of the people who are privileged to be given free tickets then sell those tickets for their own ends and the tickets get on to the secondary market. I hope that the Minister will give us an assurance that the provisions on touting will also apply to all Olympic officials and that there will be no opportunity for them to avoid the full force of the law if they are found to have contravened the Bill.
I hope that I have been able to put the Canford Bottom roundabout on the map, so to speak. This Minister is responsible for the ODA and so I hope he will realise that this is a significant issue and will be able to assure us that the best solution for the Canford Bottom roundabout is not dependent on its implementation before the Olympic games and the sailing events in Weymouth.