Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 21st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My noble and learned friend Lord Keen in not in his place, but he would be telling me that I am unable to comment on legal advice that the Government are given, but it certainly follows a range of advice from officials and government.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, really detailed scrutiny is needed to take account of the long-term consequences, in whatever form they take, for decades to come.

[Lord Callanan]

The long-term consequences will flow partly from the withdrawal agreement but also from the political declaration and the future arrangements. We have committed to involving Parliament fully in the detailed negotiating mandates for the future arrangements. I am sure there will be lots of happy hours for all of us, endlessly discussing these matters for a long time to come.

Brexit: Customs Controls at Holyhead

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Thursday 17th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We want all MPs, whether from Wales or from Northern Ireland, to back the deal because we think that it is a good deal for the United Kingdom. We should pay credit to the Prime Minister, who has done what all the opposition parties said was impossible. They said that it was impossible to reopen the agreement, but we have done that and concluded a new deal. Yet again, he has proved the gloomsters wrong.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister wish to pay tribute also to Mrs May for the work that she did to bring us to this point—albeit that Prime Minister Johnson has taken us to the final hurdle?

[Lord Callanan]

Yes, of course. I loyally served in her Government. As Prime Minister she put a great deal of work into getting the original withdrawal agreement. Of course, there is a new backstop now—but, substantively, most of the rest of the withdrawal agreement is as previously negotiated.

Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Of course we will always want to act in compliance with WTO rules, but the noble Lord will be well aware of the EU public procurement directives, which offer a very rigid and inflexible approach to public procurement. It is one of the many opportunities that we will be able to indulge in with smarter regulation but, of course, any proposals will be fully discussed in this House and the other place.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, this has been a tortuous process, but there will come a point when we will need to rally around the flag. Does the Minister agree that the time will come to keep politics out of this process and that we will start accepting the practical reality of no deal and the subsequent consequences? As things stand, what shortcomings still require urgent attention, or are the Government satisfied with the level of preparedness as set out in Operation Yellowhammer?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Viscount makes a good point. I am reminded of the famous quote that an independent is a guy who wants to take the politics out of politics. I am not sure that we will ever take the politics out of an issue such as this. Operation Yellowhammer is mentioned in the report. It comprises the reasonable worst-case planning assumptions that we are operating under. It is put forward by the Cabinet Office Civil Contingencies Secretariat, which operates under a strict set of guidelines. We are attempting to mitigate the effects against those guidelines.

EU: Law-making Process

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 1st July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, is the practical reality not that this Question comes a little late in the day—in fact, 40 years too late—and that if we had had a better understanding of all these issues at the start we would not be in the pickle we are in now?

[Lord Callanan]

There may be some truth in that, but if I had any criticisms of the EU system—and I have a lot of them—I might suggest that the unnecessary complexity would be one of the reasons why people voted to leave.

Brexit: Gibraltar

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 29th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

It has not been my responsibility and I do not have an exact figure, but I would certainly be happy to write to the noble Lord about it. We raise each and every incursion with the Spanish authorities and protest about them.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, recognising that three borders are under negotiation, what can the Minister suggest? There is Gibraltar, Northern Ireland and Anguilla, whose issues are rarely brought to the attention of the Government.

[Lord Callanan]

All the overseas territories and British dependencies have been closely involved in the negotiations; we have regular meetings to consult them about the process of EU withdrawal.

Brexit: Article 50 Period Extension Procedure

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 18th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am not aware of the Solicitor-General making those comments. I have not seen them; I have been briefing for this session and listening to the debate in the House of Commons. The procedures of the House of Commons are a matter for the Speaker and the property of the House, and nobody is in any doubt about that.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

Can the Minister confirm whether any extension of Article 50 could be rescinded on the same terms as the original Article 50 was applied for?

[Lord Callanan]

If the noble Lord is asking whether it can be withdrawn once it has been agreed, I do not think so. We are allowed to apply for an extension, and it has to be agreed unanimously. Once that is done, we will need to amend the appropriate legislation in this country, which is the EU withdrawal Act.

Further Discussions with the European Union under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Despite the chuntering from a sedentary position from the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, the noble Lord speaks great sense—as he does on so many things. It would make no sense whatever to have European Parliament elections because we will not be members of the EU going forward and, indeed, the legislation no longer exists on the UK statute book.

While these discussions continue at the European level, work continues domestically to prepare ourselves for all negotiated outcomes. The Government have undertaken extensive work to identify the primary legislation essential to deliver our exit from the EU in different scenarios. The Government are also making good progress on laying statutory instruments to ensure a functioning statute book for exit day. Over 450 statutory instruments have been laid to date, which is over 75% of all SIs required for exit day. Of these, almost half have been sent to the sifting committees of both Houses.

The Government are committed to ensuring that we have a functioning statute book for when we leave the EU, while also ensuring that legislation receives appropriate scrutiny. Once again I place on record my thanks, for their valuable and extensive work, to the committees chaired by the noble Lords, Lord Trefgarne and Lord Cunningham.

I can only reiterate that this Government stand firm on their commitment not to second-guess the result of the 2016 referendum by holding yet another people’s vote. Noble Lords will be well versed in these arguments now but, nevertheless, I will quickly recap.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

Could the Minister clarify one point? Was Mr Alberto Costa MP sacked, or did he resign, over his attempt to have EU citizens’ rights in the event of no deal ring-fenced? What is the Government’s view on this amendment—do they support it or not?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord is asking me to comment on what happens in the other place. My understanding—it is no more than that; I have not spoken to him—is that Alberto Costa resigned following the long-standing tradition that members of the Government and PPSs do not table amendments to government Motions. I also understand, however, that the Government are accepting the amendment put forward—such is the logic of government.

When we held the referendum, the Government pledged to respect the result, whatever the outcome. We repeated this commitment once the result was delivered, and this Government, as well as the Opposition, were elected on a manifesto maintaining this same commitment: to uphold the result of the 2016 referendum. Even though the Opposition seem to be U-turning on their manifesto commitment, we still stand by ours. Indeed, as the PM said yesterday, it is,

“the very credibility of our democracy”,—[Official Report, Commons, 26/2/19; col. 168.]

that we jeopardise if we break our explicit promises.

Brexit: Article 50

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 29th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, as far as I am aware, the Government have no policy on the dining companions of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson. I understand that the opinions of the House were made very clear last week but ultimately this is a matter not for the Government but for the House authorities.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, to return to the Question on the Order Paper—if the House will allow me—do the Government expect to adopt a differing negotiating position on Brexit as a result of the significant number of states which are querying the terms we have with the WTO?

[Lord Callanan]

No, our negotiating position remains exactly as set out in the White Paper.

Brexit: No Deal

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 11th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I interpret them in the same way that I interpret all comments made by Michel Barnier. Of course his comments of yesterday are welcome, but they need to be followed up with action. We have produced a proposal in the form of the Chequers proposal. We have set it out in a White Paper and we have transmitted it to our European partners. We are actively talking to other European Governments about it. We have compromised, but if there is to be an agreement, there now needs to be similar movement and compromise on the part of the EU. Actions will speak louder than words.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, I understand that the Prime Minister is against the idea of having EU customs officials on the UK side of the border. Will that affect the UK immigration officials working in Gare du Nord?

[Lord Callanan]

I do not want to go into the specifics of negotiations at the moment, but we are negotiating hard. Clearly, customs is an outstanding area where we need to reach agreement with the European Union. We are looking for pragmatic, sensible solutions.

UK-EU Future Relationship: Young Voters

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 10th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I think that if there was a referendum, people would vote to leave just the same. Anyway, we are not going to have a referendum, so we are not going to find out. We are going to put the deal that we negotiate to the House of Commons, as is proper in a democracy, and it will take a decision about whether it accepts it or not.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, will the Government give an undertaking that in the event of a referendum on the final outcome, nobody will be disenfranchised, particularly in relation to the 15-year rule?

[Lord Callanan]

We do not need to give an assurance on such matters because we are not going to have another referendum.

Brexit: Logistics Industry

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 8th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. As the Prime Minister said in her Munich speech, our offers for the guarantees of security in Europe are unconditional and we look forward to a close and productive security, foreign affairs and defence partnership with our EU partners.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, 9 May is Victory Day, which will be attended by all those who were part of winning the Second World War. Will a Minister be present at this memorial?

[Lord Callanan]

I have no idea.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Wednesday 14th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Everything I say is meaningful. Although we can look again at elements of the power, we will not be removing it from the Bill in its entirety, as Amendment 194, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, who I am glad to see is still with us, would have it.

It is prudent to keep Clause 9 as part of this Bill. We do not yet know the shape or the outcome of future negotiations. It is crucial that we have the necessary legislative mechanisms available to us to fully implement the withdrawal agreement in time for exit day. There may well be a number of more technical separation issues which will need to be legislated for, depending on the shape of the final agreement. It is long established that where legislation is intended to make smaller, more detailed changes, secondary legislation can be an appropriate vehicle. It is also not uncommon for the principles of an international agreement to be implemented through secondary legislation.

Let me give an example. The Nuclear Installations (Liability for Damage) Order 2016 implements the 2004 protocol to the Convention on Third Party Liability in the Field of Nuclear Energy—a matter with which I am sure noble Lords are fully familiar.

To be clear, however, Clause 9 is not intended to implement major elements of the withdrawal agreement. I understand that this distinction might seem a little abstract so I will demonstrate with a few more illustrative examples, although with the caveat that we cannot know for certain until the withdrawal agreement has been finalised. Clause 9 may be required, for example, to legislate for the position of ongoing administrative proceedings when we leave the EU. This is a broad basket of more technical issues such as proceedings on competition and antitrust under regulation 1/2003 or procedures on the concentration of undertakings/mergers under regulation 139/2004. These are quite complex, technical issues that do not need to be put into any Bill but must be legislated for.

Another area that Clause 9 could be used for relates to the privileges and immunities afforded by the UK to the EU, its institutions, bodies and staff post exit. These are a standard feature of international law and are generally considered necessary for the proper functioning of international organisations. Privileges and immunities for the EU are currently implemented under protocol 7 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. After exit, the EU will continue to require privileges and immunities to cover any functions that it has during the implementation period or for winding down its existing operations, and our agreement on privileges and immunities will need to be implemented in domestic legislation. If noble Lords would like further detail, I encourage them to consult the Hansard record of Committee in the other place where further details were offered on potential examples.

I do not need to remind noble Lords, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady McDonagh, that the amendment to Clause 9 that was approved in the other place means that the clause can be used only subject to the prior enactment of a statute by Parliament approving the final terms of the withdrawal of the UK from the EU. That is an exceptional check on the power, and of course we stand by that.

I have been left in no doubt of the strength of feeling in the House about Clause 9. As with other contentious areas of the Bill, I look forward to meetings and discussions with noble Lords to see what can be done ahead of Report. With that in mind, I hope noble Lords will not pursue their amendments.

[Viscount Waverley]

The Minister referred to the CRaG procedure. He may not be aware that the House of Commons put out an Explanatory Note on many of the issues that we are discussing today. I would like to ask his opinion on a line from it:

“Either House could also use the CRAG procedure to object to ratification of the agreement, and in the case of the Commons, indefinitely block it”.


Would he care to comment?

[Lord Callanan]

If the noble Viscount will forgive me, I have not read the details of that. I am sure his quote is accurate but I would like to read the whole thing before I comment on it in detail.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan]

There are some technical provisions that we may want to use Clause 9 to implement, subject to the provisions of Amendment 7. There is also the political imperative that the House of Commons considered this matter closely and decided to keep Clause 9 in the Bill, albeit modified. We want to respect the will of the House of Commons.

[Viscount Waverley]

Will the noble Lord write to me on the particular issue he raised on the CRaG procedure for the record?

[Lord Callanan]

Of course, I would be delighted to do so.

Brexit: Data Transfer

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Thursday 16th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am very happy to agree with my noble friend that of course questioning matters of policy, tabling amendments and debating the important legislation that is going through this House and another place is not unpatriotic. It is a duty of parliamentarians.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, does democracy supersede a bad deal?

[Lord Callanan]

As we are not contemplating getting a bad deal, I do not think that the question applies.

Monarch Airlines

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord is tempting me to comment on the financial health of airlines but it would be wrong to do so. I think I have been robust in the conversations and exchange of correspondence I have had with Ryanair. The company’s actions and the way it treated passengers during the flight cancellations were disgraceful and it certainly misled me when I wrote to it about the cancellations. I have made that extremely clear to Mr O’Leary in writing. While it is the responsibility of the CAA, we will not hesitate to ensure that the passengers of Ryanair or any other airline get the compensation that they require and that Ryanair and other airlines fulfil their legal responsibilities to let people know the terms of the EU 261 directive. We will not hesitate to take action through the CAA to ensure that they do so.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, would the Minister care to say a word about the passengers who were caught out in needing to return home from the UK as opposed to returning passengers? In the wake of Monarch and wishing to ensure no future disruption to passengers, should the Government be encouraging Ryanair to abide by the payment of local taxes and social security to individual EU countries where pilots are stationed on a permanent basis rather than to Ireland, where their contracts are designated? I understand that the French have won a case in the ECJ, with the result that Ryanair pulled all its planes from France.

[Lord Callanan]

I am afraid I am not familiar with that case, but Ryanair will have to comply with the rules and regulations in the same way as everyone else, as I said in my previous answer. With regard to passengers who are leaving this country, I am afraid that in this case our responsibilities extend to getting those who are stranded abroad repatriated. People who have booked flights in advance with Monarch will need to look at their travel insurance or their credit or debit card companies to gain a refund. However, I am sure the noble Viscount will understand that it cannot be the Government’s responsibility to fly people out from this country. We took the view that our responsibility was to repatriate those who were stranded abroad at no cost to themselves. As I have said, we are working with credit and debit card companies to try to recover as much of that money as possible, but there is a limit to how much we can intervene in these matters.