Energy: Prices and Supply

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Thursday 14th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Baroness is asking for some detailed statistics which I do not have to hand, but I will certainly write to her about that. There is a considerable uplift in the building regulations coming next year. The future homes standard is coming in 2025 and when it is introduced, the carbon efficiency of homes will be increased by about 75%.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

The Minister will be aware that President Biden is on an energy-related play to Saudi Arabia. Was there a positive upshot of our Prime Minister’s visit to Saudi Arabia with the noble Lord, Lord Grimstone, on related matters? If so, what benefits were accrued?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Viscount makes a good point. The Prime Minister and my noble friend Lord Grimstone visited the UAE and Saudi Arabia on 15 and 16 March. They met leaders of both countries and had some extremely productive discussions about collaboration and the importance of maintaining energy security and working together to help the green transition.

Exports: Support for Businesses

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Thursday 31st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I have not had a chance to read the paragraph that the noble Lord refers to, but I know that there are a number of contrary statistics out at the moment and it is quite hard to disentangle the various impacts. Of course, the pandemic had a serious effect on all countries’ export performances, and many supply chains are still suffering. I will certainly take the opportunity to read the paragraph the noble Lord refers to.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, I note the presentation of the Minister’s figures in his initial response, but is it not the case that the DIT calculates that for every £1 of government support, exporters get a £4 return? The Heseltine No Stone Unturned competitiveness report stated that a chamber-led approach would provide a 1:6 return. Why would the Government opt to use public finance for a lower ROI option when public finances are stretched?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I do not know the validity of those numbers. I will certainly speak to the department and find out whether that is the case, but I take the thrust of the noble Viscount’s question. The export support service acts as a single point of inquiry for businesses and traders. We have expanded the provisions that we are offering. Export Finance, of course, is world leading. We have trade ambassadors based in a whole range of our embassies around the world to help exporters to expand their potential.

Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

2nd reading
Wednesday 9th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I will come to that in a second. The new register is designed to allow investigators to get behind opaque companies. Whether a title is held by a company or an individual, the noble Lord is right that there may be a different beneficiary of the property. That is something investigators may explore further. The task of this register is to look through the company, and that is where we are focused in scope. The question of recording the ultimate beneficiaries of property is a far wider point and would apply to properties held by individuals and UK companies too.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, for sharing his experiences with Companies House. We have outlined in the White Paper, published last week, what we are proposing to do under register reform. We are seeking to limit the risk of the misuse of companies by ensuring more reliably accurate information on the companies register, reinforced by identity verification of people who manage or control companies and other UK- registered entities. We will give greater powers to Companies House to query and to challenge the information it receives, and we will give enhanced protection of personal information provided to Companies House. There will be more effective investigation and enforcement and better cross-checking of data with other public and private sector bodies. Companies House will be able to proactively share information with law-enforcement bodies where they have evidence of anomalous filings or suspicious behaviours.

I move on to unexplained wealth orders. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, the noble Lords, Lord Vaux and Lord Carlile, and my noble and learned friend Lord Garnier for the points that they raised on the use of UWOs. The threat of substantial legal costs has been a barrier to the use of UWOs. Likely subjects of UWOs are the most litigious persons. To ensure that unexplained wealth can be investigated in the maximum number of cases, we are reforming the cost rules to ensure that agencies will not be burdened with high legal costs if they act with integrity. If an agency acts dishonestly, unreasonably or improperly, it may still be ordered to pay the costs of those subject to a UWO, which is to ensure fairness. An important point to raise regards the changes to the cost rules to limit law-enforcement liability following an adverse court ruling. Protection from costs means that the court has discretion to award costs against an enforcement agency only if it acted dishonestly, unreasonably or improperly. This will remove a key barrier that has discouraged the use of UWOs, while of course providing a safeguard against arbitrary use of the powers.

The noble Lords, Lord Vaux and Lord Carlile, expressed concerns relating to resourcing for law enforcement agencies. The Government have developed a sustainable funding model that demonstrates our commitment to tackling economic crime. The combination of this year’s spending review settlement and private sector contributions through the levy will provide economic crime funding totalling around £400 million over the spending review period. That includes the £63 million that I mentioned earlier for Companies House reform. Since 2006-07 nearly £1.2 billion of the assets recovered under the Proceeds of Crime Act has been returned to law enforcement agencies, prosecutors and the courts to fund further asset-recovery capability or work that protects the public from harm.

Account freezing and forfeiture orders are a hugely impactful tool in the law enforcement toolkit. AFOs have proved their worth in a wide range of cases and are seen by law enforcement agencies as a quick and effective method of disrupting criminals and recovering their assets. In 2020-21 just under £219 million of the proceeds of crime were recovered within England, Wales and Northern Ireland. This continues the general trend of improved performance since 2016-17.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, raised an important point on Clause 18 of the Bill and the exemptions for which it provides. The phrase used in the draft Registration of Overseas Entities Bill, published in 2018, was that the Secretary of State may exempt a person from the requirement to register only for “special reasons”. This was intended to mirror the wording used in the Companies Act 2006 in respect of the persons with significant control regime. However, the pre-legislative scrutiny committee that examined the draft Bill in 2019 was of the opinion that the reasons why an exemption could be granted should be explicit in the Bill. The Government accepted the committee’s concern that otherwise the power may be too wide, and we amended the Bill accordingly—I think that also addresses some of the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Carlile. The circumstances outlined in the Bill have been carefully considered to provide clarity but also flexibility for unforeseeable but legitimate scenarios. Given that the key objectives of this register are to improve transparency and combat money laundering, these exemptions will be used very carefully, and only for evidenced and legitimate reasons.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Bennett and Lady Kramer, raised the subject of freeports. Throughout the bidding prospectus and subsequent business-case processes, prospective freeports were required to set out how they would manage the risk of illicit activity. Those plans were scrutinised by officials in Border Force, HMRC, the National Crime Agency and others. The Government already require each freeport governance body to take reasonable efforts to verify the beneficial ownership of businesses operating within the freeport tax site and to make that information available to HMRC, law enforcement agencies and other relevant public bodies. Given the nature of the information, we do not think it would be appropriate for the freeport governance body to release that information publicly because it is a third party and does not have the locus to release such information about a business to the public. Furthermore, the requirement would also partially duplicate the people with significant control register at Companies House, where there is already an onus on the company itself to provide information.

I fear that I am running out of time—

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, I apologise. Would the Minister consider this as a subject for the upcoming Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Kigali? Will he represent the Government in fully engaging with all Commonwealth countries, including the Overseas Territories, so as to encourage the English-speaking world to understand fully all these measures, because they should all engage with this, and we do after all share a common judicial system?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I am sure we will want to engage with all other parts of the world, not just the English-speaking world, through the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting. We will want to engage with as many countries as possible to see that this regime is extended.

I apologise; there were a number of other points made that I wanted to answer, but I have run out of time. However, I shall pick up one point made by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, about Northern Ireland. We are working with Northern Ireland Ministers on the devolved matters in the Bill. As he will be aware, due to the ongoing situation with the Northern Ireland Executive we are unable to formally seek a legislative consent Motion, but the noble Lord can be assured that we would not proceed without the support of Northern Ireland Ministers. I have had meetings with Ministers from Northern Ireland and from Scotland to discuss this matter.

I know I have not addressed some points, but I am sure we will examine them in Committee. I have already been speaking for 30 minutes, the hour is late and the Chief Whip is getting unsettled, so I will draw my remarks to a close. We have to respond to this illegal invasion and the Bill enables us to do so. We need to rid this country of dirty money, and I am greatly encouraged by the support given to us by all parts of the House. I apologise for taking a long time over my response, but I commend the Bill to the House.

Energy Prices: Electricity Bills

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Wednesday 13th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble and learned Lord is tempting me. Gas is traded in international markets, so the biggest factors influencing prices are global trends in supply and demand. Higher wholesale gas prices have been seen internationally since 2021.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, is there a correlation between consistency of supply from certain national gas producers and the state of some bilateral relations, with the EU generally and indeed further afield, that might be inhibiting the continuity of supply? If so, are ambassadors exploring strategy options with this in mind, and would the Minister care to give us some specific examples?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

Security of supply is of course absolutely vital. The UK derives this through its diversity of suppliers and by reducing reliance on any single source. In addition to our considerable domestic production, we import gas from Norway, Belgium, the Netherlands and further afield, via LNG terminals. Of course, through our ambassadors we are in regular contact with our energy partners, including Norway, the EU Commission and the International Energy Agency.

World Energy Outlook 2020

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 20th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

It is indeed shortly. We will provide more detail on nuclear power in the energy White Paper, but, as I said to my noble friend Lady Neville- Rolfe, we see much of the future being in small modular nuclear reactors.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, how is it believed the pandemic and its aftermath will reshape the energy sector? In that regard, does the Minister have his magic wand as to the long-term outlook for the development of LNG, given the current downturn in energy demand in China and the Far East, as that could directly impact the Government’s sustainable development strategy?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

The noble Viscount makes a good point. The short-term impact of Covid-19 on the global energy industry is a reduction in energy demand of something like 5% year on year, which has accelerated the movement away from coal towards renewables. The report highlights the fact that solar PV is now one of the cheapest forms of energy below carbon fuel. The other points that he makes are indeed very valid.

COP 26: Sponsors

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 6th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very good point. We will be carrying out due diligence on all potential sponsors. As I said, we are looking for companies that are running their businesses in a sustainable manner and working to reduce their environmental impact through net-zero targets; that will include studying their supply chains as well.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, a leader article yesterday stated bluntly that:

“The global climate crisis is the emergency of our times.”


How many heavy hitters are being targeted that meet the committed criteria outlined by the Minister? Can he give any indication of examples? In addition, and underlining other contributions this afternoon, will the Government agree that COP 26 sponsor selection must focus unreservedly on those fully committed to the cause, and not on those only paying lip service out of self-serving expediency?

[Lord Callanan (Con)]

I can certainly agree with the latter part of the noble Lord’s questions. We need to pick companies that are walking the walk as well as talking the talk. We hope to announce some names shortly.

Oil and Gas Industry

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 22nd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan (Con) [V]]

My noble friend makes a good point, as always. The White Paper will indeed address the characteristics of the electricity system as we prepare for a net-zero future, balancing the increased deployment of renewables with more flexibility and low-carbon sources of electricity that are available when the wind does not blow or the sun does not shine. Indeed, our system has already demonstrated that it can operate with a high percentage of renewable generation: 47% of electricity in the first quarter of this year was renewable, and, adding in nuclear, we had more than 60% from low-carbon generation.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the key issue of training can be expressed in two ways. What support is to be provided to ensure that, as the industry migrates across to new, sustainable energy markets, UK jobs are retained by reskilling and retraining this highly skilled workforce? Coupled to that, what support is to be provided to UK companies helping developing economies in their continuing efforts to prioritise local content initiatives for sustainable economic development?

[Lord Callanan (Con) [V]]

My noble friend makes a very good point. It will be key to the sector deal to make sure that we can utilise the tremendous expertise across the oil and gas sector both for our own low-carbon transition and to help other countries with theirs.

UK Internal Market: White Paper

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Wednesday 29th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

As he so often is on these matters, my noble friend is exactly right. Some 50% of Northern Ireland’s exports are sold to the rest of the UK, and the figures are even higher for Scotland and Wales. We therefore propose to legislate through this measure by the end of 2020 to guarantee unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the whole of the UK internal market, which is so important for it.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, past innovation led to the first industrial revolution, which, when combined, ensured a global reach creating trade, jobs and prosperity, and thus strengthening the union. Yet in today’s globalised world, how will the Minister balance a strong industrial market without sending a message that we have become insular and inward-looking, which would have a negative impact? In drawing attention to my declaration in the register, I ask: have the Government finalised agreement on the posting of UK-wide public sector projects on the European Tenders Electronic Daily site?

[Lord Callanan]

I am not sure I completely understood what the noble Viscount is getting at. Perhaps I can write him on that matter.

Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 28th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I agree with my noble friend that transparency in the process is important in helping to maintain the public’s trust and to grow understanding of the disease, while also helping to explain how the advice to the Government is being formed during this difficult time.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

On the one hand, the relaying of professional opinions—and, importantly, how those opinions have been arrived at—to decision-makers via trusted channels that have immediate access does, I believe, have merit. However, will the Government dispel any doubts that crucial considerations by those professionals are not in any way interfered with, influenced or diluted for political expediency, and that the distinction between observation and participation is being strictly adhered to?

[Lord Callanan]

SAGE is an apolitical body. It helps the Government’s Chief Scientific Adviser to fulfil his role to ensure that the Government have access to the best possible science advice in a rapid and timely manner. As I said earlier, the participants at SAGE depend on the nature of the emergency, but it typically includes leading experts from within government and leading specialists from academia and industry.

Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 21st October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My noble and learned friend Lord Keen in not in his place, but he would be telling me that I am unable to comment on legal advice that the Government are given, but it certainly follows a range of advice from officials and government.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, really detailed scrutiny is needed to take account of the long-term consequences, in whatever form they take, for decades to come.

[Lord Callanan]

The long-term consequences will flow partly from the withdrawal agreement but also from the political declaration and the future arrangements. We have committed to involving Parliament fully in the detailed negotiating mandates for the future arrangements. I am sure there will be lots of happy hours for all of us, endlessly discussing these matters for a long time to come.

Brexit: Customs Controls at Holyhead

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Thursday 17th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

We want all MPs, whether from Wales or from Northern Ireland, to back the deal because we think that it is a good deal for the United Kingdom. We should pay credit to the Prime Minister, who has done what all the opposition parties said was impossible. They said that it was impossible to reopen the agreement, but we have done that and concluded a new deal. Yet again, he has proved the gloomsters wrong.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister wish to pay tribute also to Mrs May for the work that she did to bring us to this point—albeit that Prime Minister Johnson has taken us to the final hurdle?

[Lord Callanan]

Yes, of course. I loyally served in her Government. As Prime Minister she put a great deal of work into getting the original withdrawal agreement. Of course, there is a new backstop now—but, substantively, most of the rest of the withdrawal agreement is as previously negotiated.

Brexit: Preparations

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 8th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Of course we will always want to act in compliance with WTO rules, but the noble Lord will be well aware of the EU public procurement directives, which offer a very rigid and inflexible approach to public procurement. It is one of the many opportunities that we will be able to indulge in with smarter regulation but, of course, any proposals will be fully discussed in this House and the other place.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, this has been a tortuous process, but there will come a point when we will need to rally around the flag. Does the Minister agree that the time will come to keep politics out of this process and that we will start accepting the practical reality of no deal and the subsequent consequences? As things stand, what shortcomings still require urgent attention, or are the Government satisfied with the level of preparedness as set out in Operation Yellowhammer?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Viscount makes a good point. I am reminded of the famous quote that an independent is a guy who wants to take the politics out of politics. I am not sure that we will ever take the politics out of an issue such as this. Operation Yellowhammer is mentioned in the report. It comprises the reasonable worst-case planning assumptions that we are operating under. It is put forward by the Cabinet Office Civil Contingencies Secretariat, which operates under a strict set of guidelines. We are attempting to mitigate the effects against those guidelines.

EU: Law-making Process

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 1st July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, is the practical reality not that this Question comes a little late in the day—in fact, 40 years too late—and that if we had had a better understanding of all these issues at the start we would not be in the pickle we are in now?

[Lord Callanan]

There may be some truth in that, but if I had any criticisms of the EU system—and I have a lot of them—I might suggest that the unnecessary complexity would be one of the reasons why people voted to leave.

Brexit: Gibraltar

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 29th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

It has not been my responsibility and I do not have an exact figure, but I would certainly be happy to write to the noble Lord about it. We raise each and every incursion with the Spanish authorities and protest about them.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, recognising that three borders are under negotiation, what can the Minister suggest? There is Gibraltar, Northern Ireland and Anguilla, whose issues are rarely brought to the attention of the Government.

[Lord Callanan]

All the overseas territories and British dependencies have been closely involved in the negotiations; we have regular meetings to consult them about the process of EU withdrawal.

Brexit: Article 50 Period Extension Procedure

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 18th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am not aware of the Solicitor-General making those comments. I have not seen them; I have been briefing for this session and listening to the debate in the House of Commons. The procedures of the House of Commons are a matter for the Speaker and the property of the House, and nobody is in any doubt about that.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

Can the Minister confirm whether any extension of Article 50 could be rescinded on the same terms as the original Article 50 was applied for?

[Lord Callanan]

If the noble Lord is asking whether it can be withdrawn once it has been agreed, I do not think so. We are allowed to apply for an extension, and it has to be agreed unanimously. Once that is done, we will need to amend the appropriate legislation in this country, which is the EU withdrawal Act.

Further Discussions with the European Union under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Wednesday 27th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Despite the chuntering from a sedentary position from the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, the noble Lord speaks great sense—as he does on so many things. It would make no sense whatever to have European Parliament elections because we will not be members of the EU going forward and, indeed, the legislation no longer exists on the UK statute book.

While these discussions continue at the European level, work continues domestically to prepare ourselves for all negotiated outcomes. The Government have undertaken extensive work to identify the primary legislation essential to deliver our exit from the EU in different scenarios. The Government are also making good progress on laying statutory instruments to ensure a functioning statute book for exit day. Over 450 statutory instruments have been laid to date, which is over 75% of all SIs required for exit day. Of these, almost half have been sent to the sifting committees of both Houses.

The Government are committed to ensuring that we have a functioning statute book for when we leave the EU, while also ensuring that legislation receives appropriate scrutiny. Once again I place on record my thanks, for their valuable and extensive work, to the committees chaired by the noble Lords, Lord Trefgarne and Lord Cunningham.

I can only reiterate that this Government stand firm on their commitment not to second-guess the result of the 2016 referendum by holding yet another people’s vote. Noble Lords will be well versed in these arguments now but, nevertheless, I will quickly recap.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

Could the Minister clarify one point? Was Mr Alberto Costa MP sacked, or did he resign, over his attempt to have EU citizens’ rights in the event of no deal ring-fenced? What is the Government’s view on this amendment—do they support it or not?

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord is asking me to comment on what happens in the other place. My understanding—it is no more than that; I have not spoken to him—is that Alberto Costa resigned following the long-standing tradition that members of the Government and PPSs do not table amendments to government Motions. I also understand, however, that the Government are accepting the amendment put forward—such is the logic of government.

When we held the referendum, the Government pledged to respect the result, whatever the outcome. We repeated this commitment once the result was delivered, and this Government, as well as the Opposition, were elected on a manifesto maintaining this same commitment: to uphold the result of the 2016 referendum. Even though the Opposition seem to be U-turning on their manifesto commitment, we still stand by ours. Indeed, as the PM said yesterday, it is,

“the very credibility of our democracy”,—[Official Report, Commons, 26/2/19; col. 168.]

that we jeopardise if we break our explicit promises.

Brexit: Article 50

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 29th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

My Lords, as far as I am aware, the Government have no policy on the dining companions of the noble Lord, Lord Pearson. I understand that the opinions of the House were made very clear last week but ultimately this is a matter not for the Government but for the House authorities.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, to return to the Question on the Order Paper—if the House will allow me—do the Government expect to adopt a differing negotiating position on Brexit as a result of the significant number of states which are querying the terms we have with the WTO?

[Lord Callanan]

No, our negotiating position remains exactly as set out in the White Paper.

Brexit: No Deal

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 11th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I interpret them in the same way that I interpret all comments made by Michel Barnier. Of course his comments of yesterday are welcome, but they need to be followed up with action. We have produced a proposal in the form of the Chequers proposal. We have set it out in a White Paper and we have transmitted it to our European partners. We are actively talking to other European Governments about it. We have compromised, but if there is to be an agreement, there now needs to be similar movement and compromise on the part of the EU. Actions will speak louder than words.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, I understand that the Prime Minister is against the idea of having EU customs officials on the UK side of the border. Will that affect the UK immigration officials working in Gare du Nord?

[Lord Callanan]

I do not want to go into the specifics of negotiations at the moment, but we are negotiating hard. Clearly, customs is an outstanding area where we need to reach agreement with the European Union. We are looking for pragmatic, sensible solutions.

UK-EU Future Relationship: Young Voters

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 10th September 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I think that if there was a referendum, people would vote to leave just the same. Anyway, we are not going to have a referendum, so we are not going to find out. We are going to put the deal that we negotiate to the House of Commons, as is proper in a democracy, and it will take a decision about whether it accepts it or not.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, will the Government give an undertaking that in the event of a referendum on the final outcome, nobody will be disenfranchised, particularly in relation to the 15-year rule?

[Lord Callanan]

We do not need to give an assurance on such matters because we are not going to have another referendum.

Brexit: Logistics Industry

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Tuesday 8th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord makes a very good point. As the Prime Minister said in her Munich speech, our offers for the guarantees of security in Europe are unconditional and we look forward to a close and productive security, foreign affairs and defence partnership with our EU partners.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, 9 May is Victory Day, which will be attended by all those who were part of winning the Second World War. Will a Minister be present at this memorial?

[Lord Callanan]

I have no idea.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Wednesday 14th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

Everything I say is meaningful. Although we can look again at elements of the power, we will not be removing it from the Bill in its entirety, as Amendment 194, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, who I am glad to see is still with us, would have it.

It is prudent to keep Clause 9 as part of this Bill. We do not yet know the shape or the outcome of future negotiations. It is crucial that we have the necessary legislative mechanisms available to us to fully implement the withdrawal agreement in time for exit day. There may well be a number of more technical separation issues which will need to be legislated for, depending on the shape of the final agreement. It is long established that where legislation is intended to make smaller, more detailed changes, secondary legislation can be an appropriate vehicle. It is also not uncommon for the principles of an international agreement to be implemented through secondary legislation.

Let me give an example. The Nuclear Installations (Liability for Damage) Order 2016 implements the 2004 protocol to the Convention on Third Party Liability in the Field of Nuclear Energy—a matter with which I am sure noble Lords are fully familiar.

To be clear, however, Clause 9 is not intended to implement major elements of the withdrawal agreement. I understand that this distinction might seem a little abstract so I will demonstrate with a few more illustrative examples, although with the caveat that we cannot know for certain until the withdrawal agreement has been finalised. Clause 9 may be required, for example, to legislate for the position of ongoing administrative proceedings when we leave the EU. This is a broad basket of more technical issues such as proceedings on competition and antitrust under regulation 1/2003 or procedures on the concentration of undertakings/mergers under regulation 139/2004. These are quite complex, technical issues that do not need to be put into any Bill but must be legislated for.

Another area that Clause 9 could be used for relates to the privileges and immunities afforded by the UK to the EU, its institutions, bodies and staff post exit. These are a standard feature of international law and are generally considered necessary for the proper functioning of international organisations. Privileges and immunities for the EU are currently implemented under protocol 7 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. After exit, the EU will continue to require privileges and immunities to cover any functions that it has during the implementation period or for winding down its existing operations, and our agreement on privileges and immunities will need to be implemented in domestic legislation. If noble Lords would like further detail, I encourage them to consult the Hansard record of Committee in the other place where further details were offered on potential examples.

I do not need to remind noble Lords, particularly the noble Baroness, Lady McDonagh, that the amendment to Clause 9 that was approved in the other place means that the clause can be used only subject to the prior enactment of a statute by Parliament approving the final terms of the withdrawal of the UK from the EU. That is an exceptional check on the power, and of course we stand by that.

I have been left in no doubt of the strength of feeling in the House about Clause 9. As with other contentious areas of the Bill, I look forward to meetings and discussions with noble Lords to see what can be done ahead of Report. With that in mind, I hope noble Lords will not pursue their amendments.

[Viscount Waverley]

The Minister referred to the CRaG procedure. He may not be aware that the House of Commons put out an Explanatory Note on many of the issues that we are discussing today. I would like to ask his opinion on a line from it:

“Either House could also use the CRAG procedure to object to ratification of the agreement, and in the case of the Commons, indefinitely block it”.


Would he care to comment?

[Lord Callanan]

If the noble Viscount will forgive me, I have not read the details of that. I am sure his quote is accurate but I would like to read the whole thing before I comment on it in detail.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Callanan]

There are some technical provisions that we may want to use Clause 9 to implement, subject to the provisions of Amendment 7. There is also the political imperative that the House of Commons considered this matter closely and decided to keep Clause 9 in the Bill, albeit modified. We want to respect the will of the House of Commons.

[Viscount Waverley]

Will the noble Lord write to me on the particular issue he raised on the CRaG procedure for the record?

[Lord Callanan]

Of course, I would be delighted to do so.

Brexit: Data Transfer

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Thursday 16th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

I am very happy to agree with my noble friend that of course questioning matters of policy, tabling amendments and debating the important legislation that is going through this House and another place is not unpatriotic. It is a duty of parliamentarians.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, does democracy supersede a bad deal?

[Lord Callanan]

As we are not contemplating getting a bad deal, I do not think that the question applies.

Monarch Airlines

Debate between Lord Callanan and Viscount Waverley

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Callanan]

The noble Lord is tempting me to comment on the financial health of airlines but it would be wrong to do so. I think I have been robust in the conversations and exchange of correspondence I have had with Ryanair. The company’s actions and the way it treated passengers during the flight cancellations were disgraceful and it certainly misled me when I wrote to it about the cancellations. I have made that extremely clear to Mr O’Leary in writing. While it is the responsibility of the CAA, we will not hesitate to ensure that the passengers of Ryanair or any other airline get the compensation that they require and that Ryanair and other airlines fulfil their legal responsibilities to let people know the terms of the EU 261 directive. We will not hesitate to take action through the CAA to ensure that they do so.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, would the Minister care to say a word about the passengers who were caught out in needing to return home from the UK as opposed to returning passengers? In the wake of Monarch and wishing to ensure no future disruption to passengers, should the Government be encouraging Ryanair to abide by the payment of local taxes and social security to individual EU countries where pilots are stationed on a permanent basis rather than to Ireland, where their contracts are designated? I understand that the French have won a case in the ECJ, with the result that Ryanair pulled all its planes from France.

[Lord Callanan]

I am afraid I am not familiar with that case, but Ryanair will have to comply with the rules and regulations in the same way as everyone else, as I said in my previous answer. With regard to passengers who are leaving this country, I am afraid that in this case our responsibilities extend to getting those who are stranded abroad repatriated. People who have booked flights in advance with Monarch will need to look at their travel insurance or their credit or debit card companies to gain a refund. However, I am sure the noble Viscount will understand that it cannot be the Government’s responsibility to fly people out from this country. We took the view that our responsibility was to repatriate those who were stranded abroad at no cost to themselves. As I have said, we are working with credit and debit card companies to try to recover as much of that money as possible, but there is a limit to how much we can intervene in these matters.