Northern Ireland (Ministerial Appointments and Regional Rates) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords & 3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 26th April 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I should like to join other noble Lords in strongly supporting the Bill before us and I fully appreciate that its fast-tracking is unavoidable in the circumstances. I would also like to associate myself with the comments made by other speakers regarding the security services and the very difficult job that they have to do in Northern Ireland.

We all recognise that the achievement of consensus among Northern Ireland politicians is sometimes intrinsically difficult, but nevertheless we should be encouraged by the achievements of the devolved Administration in recent years and by the agreement reached in the Stormont House talks. In the circumstances, the irresponsible actions of Sinn Fein over the past few months are very regrettable and the decision of that party’s Deputy First Minister, the late Martin McGuinness, to resign led inevitably to the collapse of the Northern Ireland Executive and the subsequent Northern Ireland Assembly elections. After the election, Sinn Fein again refused to nominate a Deputy First Minister and thereby again prevented the establishment of a devolved Administration. In contrast, the Democratic Unionist Party did not lay down any preconditions for the re-establishment of devolved government and continued to seek agreement among all parties on the relevant issues.

The Secretary of State, who has to be congratulated along with his team on the way they have conducted the negotiations under extremely difficult circumstances, remains positive regarding the progress of the talks and believes that there is the will and the commitment among the parties to find a way forward, and therefore the extension of the period for filling ministerial offices provided for in this Bill is very much to be welcomed. Can the Minister give an assurance that 29 June is the final cut-off date and will be the last deadline to be set? I feel that if this is made clear, it will focus the minds of the negotiators on reaching an agreement.

We must all hope that a successful conclusion to the talks will be arrived at by that date. Moreover, it is clear beyond doubt that unless the provisions of the Bill related to the setting of the regional rate are also passed into law as soon as possible, the administration of Northern Ireland will cease to function effectively.

In concluding, I should like to take a broader perspective on the future of Northern Ireland. The decisions which must be taken in the next few years on the subject of the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union and on the constitutional status of the constituent countries of the United Kingdom are probably more important than any taken, certainly in my lifetime. Personally, I strongly favour the retention of a strong United Kingdom comprising England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and I fully support the decision of the people of the United Kingdom to leave the European Union as expressed in the recent referendum. It is essential that the representatives of Northern Ireland are fully consulted during these important discussions, but this will be possible only if the devolved institutions are in place. Can the Minister inform the House about what steps will be taken to ensure that Northern Ireland interests are fully represented in the unfortunate event that the talks fail?

I have listened to the Minister and I understand that the proposals dealing with the legacy of our troubled past are on the table. I am pleased that he has informed the House that the Government are willing to publish them so that wider consultation can take place in the next few weeks.

We must all hope earnestly that the talks will reach a successful conclusion before 29 June so that a functioning Executive can be established which will deliver peace and prosperity for all the people of Northern Ireland. I can assure the House that my party is totally committed to reaching out and securing a lasting agreement. The message coming from the Province right across the board is that people want devolution up and running, so I support the Bill.

Collection of Fines etc. (Northern Ireland Consequential Amendments) Order 2017

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 21st March 2017 Grand Committee

[The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Keen of Elie) (Con)]

My Lords, the draft order, which was laid before the House on 6 February and which was approved in the other place on 14 March, is made under Section 84(2) of the Northern Ireland Act 1998. The Northern Ireland Act allows changes to be made to legislation that are necessary because of an Act of the Northern Ireland Assembly. This order is made in consequence of the Justice Act (Northern Ireland) 2016, which was passed by the Northern Ireland Assembly on 14 March 2016 and received Her Majesty’s Assent on 12 May 2016.

Part 1 of the 2016 Act fundamentally reforms arrangements for the collection and enforcement of fines in Northern Ireland by creating a new regime that provides additional ways for offenders to pay their fines. It includes powers for collection officers to secure payment through an attachment of earnings order, which is a court order made in Northern Ireland that requires a debtor’s employer to deduct specified amounts from wages and pay them to the court to discharge the outstanding amount.

The order will amend Schedule 5 to the Courts Act 2003 to enable fine collection officers and courts in Northern Ireland to obtain or verify certain information from HM Revenue & Customs, including the name and address of any employer the individual may have and details of any earnings or other income that the individual receives. This information will allow fine collection officers in Northern Ireland to determine whether an attachment of earnings order is an appropriate enforcement option to be pursued in respect of the debtor.

Schedule 5 to the 2003 Act already enables Her Majesty’s Revenue & Customs to make such disclosures in England and Wales, and the amendments made under the order will allow it to do so in Northern Ireland as well. Such amendments could not be made by the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland through the 2016 Act because Section 18 of the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005 stipulates that conferring such powers on HMRC cannot be carried in Northern Ireland legislation and can be done only through Westminster. However, Section 84(2) of the 1998 Act allows for such amendments to be made by an Order in Council, such as this order, if “necessary or expedient” and I consider that the proposed amendments are necessary to facilitate the effective operation of the attachment of earnings provisions of the 2016 Act.

I am happy to confirm to noble Lords that Ministers and officials of the United Kingdom Government and the Northern Ireland Department of Justice have worked closely together on this draft order, which I commend to the Committee.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord for his very comprehensive explanation of the order, and I very much welcome the order, which will provide the courts in Northern Ireland with additional sentencing, collecting and enforcement options. It will go a long way in helping to reduce the number of people—I believe 2,000—who are jailed each year for non-payment of fines by increasing the availability of community-based options in place of custody, by deducting money from their benefits each week. I believe that the vehicles of habitual offenders can be seized.

Can the Minister say how much money in unpaid fines is owed to the Stormont Government, going back over the last number of years, and how much money in police time is spent in enforcing fines? Is the Minister confident that there are enough safeguards with regard to the policy of possible seizure of vehicles? However, these amendments will go a long way and will prove effective in saving money.

[Lord Beecham (Lab)]

My Lords, this order—one of five we are discussing today—is the only one so far to have been taken in the Commons. In that place a very brief explanation was given by the Minister—the noble and learned Lord has given a rather fuller explanation than was given then—and my honourable friend David Anderson replied with a sentence only. I do not propose to add to that except to say that the noble Lord who has just spoken has raised some salient points and I was interested to hear what he said. We certainly have no objection to the order.

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Act 2016 (Independent Reporting Commission) Regulations 2016

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Monday 7th November 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)]

My Lords, first, I apologise to the Minister for not being here at the start of this debate. I see this very much as a further development of the political process in Northern Ireland. This can only help. I know that the Executive are dealing with some very difficult issues at the moment. I would hope that these provisions will help them to deal with those issues a lot sooner.

We should put on record the previous Secretaries of State who have worked tirelessly to get where we are in Northern Ireland today. We need to recognise that we have had almost nine years of fairly stable government; okay, there have been a few bumps along the way—some of them fairly serious—but they have managed to stay together. I think that we have a stable Government and a stable Assembly in Northern Ireland now. That is a huge achievement compared to where we came from 20, 25 or 30 years ago. We have all moved on in Northern Ireland. You have only to look at the pledge of office used by Ministers in the Assembly, and by Assembly Members, which is set out in Schedule 4 to the Northern Ireland Act. All this is moving Northern Ireland forward.

This all comes out of what was agreed by the political parties on 17 November in A Fresh Start. I hope that we will now have a commission which will report independently—“independently” is very important. The objective is of course to help end paramilitary and criminal activity in Northern Ireland. I do not believe that this commission can do that on its own; there has to be a collective approach from politicians, policing and the southern Government to bring this activity to an end. I know that some Peers have said, rightly, that it has been 20 years and we still have paramilitary organisations and criminality. They are almost leeches to their own communities; they beg from their own communities and create major problems there. We have to remember that they are happy enough to keep their own community in the way that it is because that helps their cause. For me, it was never about when they would leave the stage; for me, it is how they leave the stage that is vitally important.

I believe that we have paramilitaries who genuinely want to come into the democratic process. We should try to help to bring them in. The police and the justice system in Northern Ireland should deal with those who do not want to come into the process. When you talk to paramilitaries, there is a desire to leave it behind and come in. It is about how we get them in and deal with them, and then how they eventually leave the stage, but they must be part of the solution in Northern Ireland. We cannot isolate them totally and absolutely. Yes, as noble Lords have said, it is 20 years but that is 20 years too long. We need to find a way of dealing with this issue. They are a total curse in Northern Ireland. I believe that on some occasions they hold back our politicians who want to move forward even quicker. The legacy issue in Northern Ireland is a major issue. We must try to resolve that issue. I am hearing reasonably good soundings that they are moving forward on it. If it can be resolved, that will be better for the future of Northern Ireland and for all its people, so let us move forward. This is good news here tonight.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his statement and I, too, apologise for missing the opening. I very much welcome the regulations relating to the setting-up of the Independent Reporting Commission. Does the Minister agree that good progress has been made in Northern Ireland since the signing of the fresh start agreement? A long list of issues has been agreed and all are being progressed and implemented. The situation in Northern Ireland today is much more positive and, as we have heard, there has been a long period of stable government.

However, the threat posed by paramilitaries from both the republican and the loyalist sides, unfortunately, still exists. Only last night, we witnessed the murder of Mr Jim Hughes at Divis flats. This has to be condemned by all right-minded persons. All parties must work together to rid society of all paramilitary activity.

I look forward to the Independent Reporting Commission beginning its work and to receiving its first report, which I trust will prove to be an important arm in helping to bring an end to all forms of paramilitarism in Northern Ireland, which for far too long has been a scourge to law-abiding communities in Northern Ireland. I very much hope that the next step in securing long-lasting peace is for all parties to agree a way forward to finding a solution for dealing with the legacy of the Troubles.

[Lord Dunlop]

I thank noble Lords for their contributions to this short debate and for their support for these regulations. In particular, I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, to her new role and echo her warm words for the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, who was part of the independent panel that made 43 recommendations on how we take dealing with paramilitary activity forward.

As I said earlier, this is another important step in the process of meeting the commitments entered into as part of the fresh start agreement. A number of points were raised during the debate, and I will try to address as many of them as I can now. If there are any points that I am unable to cover, I will, of course write to the noble Lords concerned.

First, on reporting, Regulation 3(1)(a) requires the Secretary of State to lay the reports of the commission before the House. If the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, would like further detail on the process, I am, of course, happy to write to him.

On the cross-community nature of the commission, there will be four commissioners, one nominated by the UK Government, one nominated by the Irish Government and two appointed by the Executive who will be nominated jointly by the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister. That is to ensure collaboration and to provide cross-community credibility.

With regard to the appointment of a chairman of the commission, this is not required by the legislation or necessarily envisaged, but the IRC has the autonomy to appoint a chairperson if it so chooses. We hope that the commission will be in place in early 2017. We are aiming for January 2017.

I can assure the noble Baroness that the Government will not allow the negotiations on exiting the EU in any way to compromise the Government’s determination to carry forward their commitments to Northern Ireland.

When we debated the primary legislation, my noble friend made the point about sanctions. It is open to the IRC to make recommendations to inform the Executive’s programme for government.

With regard to the Executive’s action plan, as has already been mentioned, the UK is providing £25 million to tackle paramilitary activity. The Government are working with the Executive to deliver a robust action plan. Before the UK Government can agree to release funds, we must see a prioritised and effective plan from the Executive, and we look forward to seeing more detailed plans from the Executive. It is essential that the Executive make urgent progress on this.

On the funding of the IRC, I note what the noble Lord, Lord Bew, said. It is important that the transparency of the Executive’s finances is underpinned by an independent fiscal council.

My noble friend Lord Lexden asked a number of questions. The IRC may contract such legal services as it considers necessary. That is obviously part of why the Government are providing £3 million funding for the commission.

We hope that the further regulations will be laid soon. I hope that I have covered most, if not all, of the points that have been raised.

In conclusion, the continuing activities of paramilitaries are a blight on communities across Northern Ireland. The Independent Reporting Commission will have an important role in helping to rid Northern Ireland society of these heinous activities. I am sure the whole House looks forward to the IRC starting its work early next year.

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Thursday 21st April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rogan (UUP)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Dunlop, for his courtesy in allowing us some very helpful meetings on the Bill. I fully support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice. In the past, many inquiries and commissions have taken far too long and, in the end, when they do report, what they were originally reporting on is perhaps forgotten. I cite the Saville inquiry. It went on and on, cost £200 million and, quite frankly, its report satisfied no one.

I turn to Amendment 2 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Empey. Northern Ireland is a comparatively small geographical area. To be precise, it consists of 5,344.8 square miles. You can get from point A to point B in one and a half hours. We have a population of some 1.7 million. The effect of these facts is that we all know each other, or we know a friend of a friend. It is almost impossible to meet a fellow Ulsterman or Ulsterwoman and not, within 15 minutes of conversation, find some geographical or other link. At times we are accused of being tribal, whether we come from the inner cities, with their peace walls, from leafy suburbs or the rural countryside.

All these facts make it difficult to identify people who are seen to be completely neutral. I think we did achieve that when we appointed the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, and the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, if not, perhaps, with some other appointees. However, in order to appoint people who are neutral and seen to be neutral—and many people in Northern Ireland would fit that bill—we must end the practice of political appointments, appointments being made, currently, by only two of the main parties. We need to broaden it out so that the broadest possible organisation can be the appointing body. While I absolutely agree that the police authority is not the ideal—when are we ever going to get an ideal body?—I feel that the Policing Board would fulfil this role. There still definitely is a political element, with political appointees, but the appointed lay members will dilute that somewhat. I support the amendment.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, and I shall also speak to the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Empey. It is important that the Executive in Northern Ireland continue to tackle paramilitarism, criminality and organised crime, and therefore I very much welcome the provision for the establishment of the Independent Reporting Commission. No doubt, it will expose those in both the republican and loyalist paramilitary groups who continue to engage in criminal acts of violence. Regrettably, over past weeks, we have witnessed the murder of the prison officer Adrian Ismay in east Belfast, the murder of Michael McGibbon in north Belfast and the serious wounding of Harry Boyle in Londonderry. The Police Service of Northern Ireland has stated that these all bear the hallmarks of the action of violent dissident republican groups. I am sure that all Members of the House will condemn the vile actions of those groups.

This is why it is all the more important that the Independent Reporting Commission is in place and fully operational as soon as possible, so that it can report to the Northern Ireland Executive and enable them to draw up a programme to promote the ending of paramilitary activity. This commission is to be established through an international agreement between the UK Government and the Republic of Ireland Government. I trust that a Government in the Republic can be formed soon so that there will be no delay.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kilclooney (CB)]

In saying that the First Minister would have a veto, does the noble Lord recognise that there is an election under way in Northern Ireland and that the next First Minister could easily be a former IRA terrorist?

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

What I said was that the veto would rest within the Office of the First Minister.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, like all who have spoken in this very interesting and wide-ranging debate, I warmly endorse and support the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice. We seem to have strayed also into Amendment 2, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and I have great sympathy with what he said about it. However, I think that this debate is primarily about Amendment 1.

We all remember the deep sense of crisis that existed last summer in Northern Ireland with regard to the extent and viciousness of paramilitary activity. It has been touched on from time to time in this debate, bringing it home to us again. The latest police figures show that nearly 100 people were injured last year as a result of paramilitary assaults or shooting incidents. The sooner the new commission is able to get to work, the better it will be. The effectiveness of its work would surely be most usefully demonstrated by regular twice-yearly reports. No one speaks with more authority on this matter than the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, who is hugely respected for the work that he did on the Independent Monitoring Commission, to which tribute has been paid today. I would like to be part of that tribute.

The Government will have noted the strength of feeling that exists and I hope they will respond in the way that all of us who have spoken in this debate would wish.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen (Lab)]

My Lords, when I was asked to help out this afternoon, I reflected that it is 22 years, I think, since I last spoke from a Dispatch Box on Northern Ireland matters. It is 20 years since the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and I, and many others in the Chamber today, worked on the Good Friday agreement. I have a great deal of time for the noble Lord and for what he said about equivalence, which was echoed by the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames. There is no equivalence whatever between what the Armed Forces of the state do in the performance of their duty to protect our citizens and what terrorists do. Therefore the essence of what the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said was right on that.

The noble Lord, Lord Rogan, was also right to bring to your Lordships’ House the importance of the victims issue. When he spoke, it reminded me of how many people have been affected physically or mentally by the Troubles over the past 30 or 40 years. It is an immense number. However, in the end, I am bound to agree with the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, about when we deal with this issue. It has to be dealt with, and he, above all, I suppose, has been dealing with this for many years now. I understand from the Government that the reason there are no legacy clauses in the Bill is that there has yet to be agreement among the parties in Northern Ireland on what they should be. I hope that there will be agreement on that over the next months and that perhaps in the Queen’s Speech there will be a Bill dealing with legacy issues. It is probably then that we will have to look at definitions of victims and survivors because it will be the result of intense negotiation and discussion. Therefore, although the Opposition have much sympathy with the points put in this amendment by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, we think the timing should be later and should be the result of discussions in Belfast and of further legislation.

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

My Lords, this amendment is essentially concerned with the definition or redefinition of a victim. This is one of the most sensitive issues which still have to be dealt with. People who have suffered most throughout years of terrorism in Northern Ireland and throughout Great Britain must be treated in an appropriate and sympathetic manner. They all deserve to have their plight recognised and their voice listened to. It was disappointing that the problem of confronting the past was not resolved during the recent talks, but I am confident and remain optimistic that, after the election of a new Assembly on 5 May, every effort will be made to come a consensus on this matter. I particularly welcome and congratulate the Minister on holding a briefing with all the interested parties. I am confident that in the not too distant future this House will receive legislation to deal with this matter.

I should make it clear that my party believes that the definition of a victim is wrong and needs to be looked at and possibly changed. As part of those plans, the party proposes that the perpetrators of violence during the Troubles are not defined as victims. The Victims and Survivors (Northern Ireland) Order 2006 makes no distinction between paramilitaries who were killed or injured and other victims. It is therefore important at some stage to look at possibly narrowing the scope of the definition of a victim. I want to see the peace process moving on and a Northern Ireland that puts the past behind it, but in dealing with the past, it is important that we should not be prepared to countenance a rewriting of the Troubles whereby the perpetrators of acts of terrorism, whoever they are, are placed on a par with the thousands of people who were killed or maimed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Trimble]

My Lords, I indicate my support for this amendment, which, as my noble friend Lord Empey says, was tabled in the other place and debated there. I think it was tabled by Sylvia Hermon, the Member for North Down, and it is a very sensible provision. What is the value of these pledges and undertakings if they can be disregarded? There has to be some form of penalty or sanction available in the event of the undertakings not being honoured.

At Second Reading, the Minister gave two reasons why the amendment was not accepted. The second of the two reasons was to refer to established mechanisms by which the Assembly holds its Members to account, including adherence to the Assembly code of conduct and so on. This is like asking IPSA to take on such a highly political job as deciding what sanctions to apply to Members who take directions from paramilitary and terrorist organisations and so on. That is not a terribly good reason to give for not accepting this. The other reason the Minister gave was that:

“The Government are firmly of the opinion that it would not be appropriate for us at Westminster to pre-empt the Assembly’s own consideration of this issue”.—[Official Report, 12/4/16; col. 225.]

I can understand that—it sounds reasonable enough—but you then have to bear in mind that the likelihood of the Assembly agreeing to significant sanctions as things stand at the moment is round about zero, and maybe even less than zero. Therefore that, too, is not a good reason.

I also add a rider to say that one of the things that disturbs me about our Government’s attitude to the devolved Administrations—it is not just in Northern Ireland but comes across in their attitude to the Scottish Parliament and the Welsh Assembly—is that an exaggerated view of their position runs through all of this. This is the sovereign Parliament of the United Kingdom. We have devolved matters, but power devolved is power retained. At the end of the day responsibility in all these matters rests with Her Majesty’s Government. For the Government to say, “Oh, we’ll leave it up to the devolved Administration” might sound appropriate and diplomatic but it gives far too exaggerated a view of it. To see how at the end of the day that puts you in difficulty, just look at the history of Stormont. The same exaggerated view of Stormont’s position from 1922 onwards was taken by this House, and the result of that was not good in that it led the central Administration not to pay proper regard to what was going on and not to involve themselves in what was going on. If Government here had paid closer attention to it, we might have avoided the Troubles. That is a small point, but I hope the Minister will bear it in mind.

Finally, I understand the Minister’s desire to be diplomatic, on the basis that he is only being diplomatic, and I realise that it will not be possible to accept the amendment without losing the Government’s timetable to get this out before the end of the Session—and that is fine. Can the Minister then change his language slightly when he says that he will leave it to the Assembly to see what it does with regard to it? However, if the Assembly fails to take action on this matter, the Government will have to consider what they do.

[Lord Browne of Belmont]

My Lords, I support Amendment 4, proposed by the noble Lord, Lord Empey. As I have said before, Northern Ireland goes to the polls on 5 May and it is only right that anyone who engages or supports paramilitarism should have no place in a democratic institution. Newly elected Members will thus be obliged to give an undertaking to abide by the principles outlined in Clause 8 and Schedule 2.

I fully concur with the noble Lord, Lord Empey, that it is only right and proper that, when a Member of a legislative Assembly gives an undertaking and then is seen to breach that undertaking, within Standing Orders there should be a robust mechanism, first, to enable an investigation of any alleged breach of the undertaking, and, if proved, surely there should be sanctions that can be enforced. Otherwise, the undertaking those Members take will be meaningless. If not, the public in Northern Ireland will have little confidence in their elected Members and in the operation of the Northern Ireland Assembly.

Of course, it is only right that the Northern Ireland Assembly should prescribe the nature of the sanction, but surely, as we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, it is for the sovereign Parliament to ensure that the Standing Orders of the Northern Ireland Assembly reflect the need for such sanctions.

[Lord Murphy of Torfaen]

My Lords, again, I express a lot of sympathy with what the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and other noble Lords have said with regard to this amendment. There is no doubt that, if you have a pledge of office, there is not much point in having one unless you can enforce it. Your Lordships will recall that, during the course of the talks which led up to the Good Friday agreement, both Sinn Fein and a paramilitary party were excluded from them because they were seen to breach a similar sort of pledge. Therefore, in a way, this has run through negotiations in Northern Ireland politics for a long time.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Browne, that this is an issue of public confidence. There is no point in having the pledge, as the noble Lord, Lord Empey, said at Second Reading, unless it is enforceable. However, at the same time we know, and the Minister will undoubtedly tell us, that the Bill needs to go through quickly because of the election and other reasons. Therefore, how do you deal with a situation which is significant but which you are reluctant to legislate on because of the necessity of having to deal with it quickly?

I take the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Trimble, who was absolutely right that there are other ways of dealing with this. That is, the Secretary of State and Minister can return to Northern Ireland at the point when further discussions are held on these matters, ensure that the debate is held here and in the other place, and that there is cross-party support for the need for Standing Orders to express a view that, if the pledges are breached, there should be some method by which you can enforce some sort of punishment. What that would be I am sure would be a matter for great debate and negotiation, but it has to be addressed. Otherwise, the pledges are hollow and meaningless.

It seems to me that, during the course of the negotiations that led up to the fresh start agreement, people accepted the idea that there should be a pledge—obviously, it would not be in front of us otherwise. I am sure, although I do not know, that they must have talked about the enforceability of sanctions. So the ball is now in the Government’s court, and although it is not practical or feasible for this legislation to deal with it, it is practical and feasible for the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to go back and talk with the political parties and try to get agreement.

Northern Ireland (Stormont Agreement and Implementation Plan) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 12th April 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s statement, which set out very clearly the main provisions and aims of the Bill. My party strongly supports the Bill and the proposals to expedite its parliamentary progress, which are important to ensure that the measures relating to the pledge of office, the MLA undertaking and the time available for allocation of ministerial appointments are in place before the return of the new Assembly.

It is generally accepted that unresolved issues relating to paramilitarism and the budget threatened the very existence of the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland at the end of last year. It is important to recognise the vital role played by the Secretary of State, her Ministers and the former First Minister of Northern Ireland, Peter Robinson, in achieving consensus on these critical matters and thus avoiding a potential constitutional crisis. Clauses 1 to 5, providing for the establishment of a new Independent Reporting Commission, represent significant progress towards the ultimate goal of eliminating paramilitarism. The direct involvement of the United Kingdom Government and the Irish Government, as well as the Northern Ireland Executive, should facilitate the compilation of information on the paramilitary activities of both republican and loyalist groups. It would be helpful if the Minister provided further details on the terms of the treaty between the United Kingdom and Irish Governments which will provide for the establishment of the commission.

The Northern Ireland Assembly should be commended for the practical steps it has taken to reach consensus on budgetary matters. The Executive have now agreed a budget for next year, which has been passed by the Assembly in advance of the relevant time limit. Clause 9 provides for greater transparency in the budgetary process. The Minister will be required to lay a Statement before the Assembly, specifying the amount of UK funding for the financial year, 14 days before the budget date, and a further Statement along with the draft budget showing that the amount of UK funding required will not exceed the amount available. I hope that these provisions will prevent irresponsible and short-sighted political manoeuvring that is intended to obstruct and impede the budget-setting process.

Clause 6 and Schedule 1, which extend the time available for the allocation of ministerial positions, should also facilitate the achievement of consensus in the legislative process by allowing the parties more time to agree a programme for government. I believe this is a time to praise the success of the fresh start initiative, rather than indulging in pedantic fault-finding. Many problems still remain unresolved. As we have heard from the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, who made such a moving statement, one of these problems is in confronting the past. I should stress that my party would welcome publication of details on the progress made, so that victims, their families and all those affected can be reassured that every effort is being made to achieve a successful conclusion. I very much welcome the Minister’s statement tonight regarding talks on the legacy of the past. I am pleased to support the Bill.

Northern Ireland (Welfare Reform) Bill

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Bill, which I regard as one of the most important components of the Stormont fresh start agreement. Welfare undoubtedly represented the most intractable problem which arose during the process of trying to achieve the successful implementation of the Stormont House agreement of 23 December 2014. I take this opportunity to pay tribute to all those who put short-term political considerations aside and worked tirelessly on behalf of all the people of Northern Ireland to bring about agreement on this very issue. In particular, the unwavering commitment of my party leader, Peter Robinson, deserves the highest praise, and there is no doubt that his impending retirement represents a significant loss for the whole community.

As the Minister pointed out, the Bill gives Parliament power to legislate for welfare reform in Northern Ireland, and it confers on the Secretary of State and the relevant Northern Ireland departments powers to make further provision by regulation and order. The passage of this Bill into law will at last bring to an end a period of financial instability, during which the Treasury has been forced to impose financial restrictions on Northern Ireland departments because of the failure of the Executive to reach agreement on welfare issues. Indeed, instead of facing fines of some £2 million a week, the Executive will now have a stable and sustainable budget, which is clearly a prerequisite for successful devolved government in Northern Ireland. I sincerely hope that all those involved will build on this agreement by working together to achieve the resolution of the outstanding contentious issues, referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice.

It is expected that the Bill will facilitate the extension of the provisions of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 to Northern Ireland. I welcome the fact that the Executive will retain the power to compensate some groups and, in particular, working families who may suffer a loss of benefits as a result. The agreement to increase efforts to tackle fraud and error in benefit payments should also, I believe, prove beneficial. The provision that the Executive can retain 50% of any money saved should provide an effective incentive.

It is important that the Bill is passed this evening so that the Order in Council containing regulation-making powers and measures to implement welfare reform may become law as soon as possible. I welcome the provision in Clause 3(3) that no Order in Council may be made under the Bill after 31 December 2016. But does the Minister agree that it might be reasonable to review the position after the Northern Ireland Assembly elections in May 2016?

Welfare reform has been blocked for almost four years by some parties in the Northern Ireland Assembly. Passing the Bill tonight will bring to an end an impasse, thus allowing the fresh start agreement to be implemented. This will allow the people of Northern Ireland to benefit from a welfare reform package that will meet their needs. I hope that we can all look forward to a peaceful and prosperous Northern Ireland. I support the Bill and trust that other noble Lords will take the same view.

Northern Ireland: Political Agreement

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

I am not sure that at this stage I can give more detail than I have already given. The Government are disappointed that creating the institutions to deal with the past does not form part of this agreement. However, it remains a huge priority for the Government to deal with the issues of the past and take forward what was in the original Stormont House agreement to get these institutions set up. I think we can be optimistic that some very intractable issues, such as welfare reform and budgetary issues, have been dealt with in the agreement. That shows what can be achieved with good will and all the parties getting around the table. We need to bring that same spirit to how we take forward the issues that were not included in the agreement, and that will be a high priority for the Government.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. I very much welcome the successful conclusion of the talks and the new fresh start agreement, which sets out a practical course to consolidating peace, stability and helping to promote economic development in Northern Ireland. I, too, pay tribute to my party leader, Peter Robinson, for his tireless work on achieving reconciliation in our community over a number of years.

I particularly welcome the additional security funding of £160 million for the Police Service of Northern Ireland to address the continuing severe national security threat, and to tackle continued paramilitary activity and criminality. However, will the Minister provide clarification about the nature of the severe national security threat and what steps the PSNI will be expected to take to address it?

[Lord Dunlop]

In this House a few weeks ago we had a Statement about the assessment that had been made. The Government continue to agree with that assessment, and I am not sure that I can add more at this stage to what was said on that occasion. Clearly, though, we are determined to tackle organised criminal activity, which has such a corrosive effect on the well-being of Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland Assembly

Lord Browne of Belmont Excerpts

Thursday 10th September 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dunlop]

My noble friend is absolutely right—the budgetary situation in Northern Ireland is acute, which is why the Secretary of State has made it clear that these talks need to be focused, urgent and intensive. The expectation is that they would last between three to four weeks.

[Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)]

I welcome the PNQ from the noble Lord, Lord Reid, the former Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. There is no doubt that the situation in Northern Ireland is extremely serious and it is vital that important and constructive discussions on the future of devolved government and on the Stormont House agreement take place. Surely, this is the time for all Northern Ireland parties to consider the welfare of the whole community, rather than seeking short-term political advantage. Does the Minister agree that it would be useful to have a short adjournment of the Assembly, as that would facilitate positive discussions, free from the wrangling that inevitably accompanies everyday parliamentary business?

[Lord Dunlop]

I very much agree with the noble Lord that there is support for devolution across the community in Northern Ireland. Our priority remains keeping the devolved institutions functioning. As I said earlier, the adjournment of the Northern Ireland Assembly is a matter for the Assembly, and we await the outcome of the Business Committee’s considerations this afternoon.